I am thinking about Harley Quinn
Specifically, about where she fits in Jason Toddâs death.Â
Harley is a bit of a fandom problem (and an adaptation and remake and reboot problem) because sheâs an import character - she was invented for the animated series, and brought into comics later, not the other way around.Â
This means in Harleyâs original backstory, she became a Joker henchwoman when Dick was Robin - an older Robin, about 18 maybe, but dick was still in the green booties⌠or, not, given they used Timâs costume design, but the point stands.Â
However, Harleyâs comic book origins are in the No Manâs Land arc. The backstory is similar, but itâs much later in the Batman timeline. Dickâs Nightwing, Jasonâs already dead, and Tim is Robin.Â
And I find that notable and compelling. Thereâs a habit to default to the animated series timeline and retroactively make Harley have been there with the Joker almost from the beginning, but itâs interesting to me to have Harley be a later addition. Joker has a history with Batman, and a history with the Robins, but Harley has only ever known Tim as Robin - maybe she knew OF Dick and Jason as Robins back when she was a civilian, but she has never faced them as a villain.Â
In the animated series, Joker and Harley torture Tim - B:TASâs Tim Drake/Jason Todd composite character - into becoming a little âJoker Jr.â They donât kill him. I think thatâs an important distinction to make, because creating a clown son for her and her puddinâ is the kind of messed up Harley was, but I donât believe Harley would be down for child murder. Itâs really difficult to insert Harley into the era of Jasonâs death, because ultimately sheâs a maternal person. Hell, all of the Sirens are, to differing degrees.
Selinaâs got a soft spot for kids, but doesnât seem to want any and doesnât think sheâd be a good mother, but itâs been shown that she could potentially come around to the idea.
Ivy is a bit hard to pin down as a character. Sheâs generally misanthropic, but sheâs sometimes depicted as having a traumatic childhood, and empathizes with traumatized children, and she more-or-less adopted sixteen kids during No Manâs Land (and we make fun of Bruce for collecting kids)Â
Harley herself seems to want to be a mom, though depictions of a more mature Harley tend to recognize that might not be the best idea at this time in her life, or at least that itâs too dangerous with Joker around. Regardless, sheâs often depicted as somewhat protective of kids.
That doesnât mesh with Harley being around when Jason died. Or⌠even knowing about it.Â
I think there are interesting stories to be told keeping Harley on this later timeline - with Tim as âherâ Robin, with her possibly not knowing what Joker did to the last Robin or even that he died, with Jokerâs obsession with Batman and his rejection of Bruceâs children. I donât âshipâ BatJokes, but I definitely see a sort of twisted romantic one-sided obsession from Joker, where he sees Bruce as kind of his destiny? In a nemesis sort of way? Like, he perceives him as a soulmate, but with Hate. And he does talk about the Robins like he and Batman are spouses and the Robins are kids he never wanted, and I find it interesting that Harley comes along after he killed their âchildâ and Bruce turned around a got another one.Â
I think thereâs something interesting there, that Joker got himself his own sidekick, and a romantic partner no less. Like, maybe his goal in taking on Harley was toâŚÂ âhurtâ Bruce, the way he felt âhurtâ by not being the most important person in Bruceâs life.Â
Of course Bruce doesnât give a shit who Jokerâs teaming up or hooking up with, and the franchise itself has played with this concept before, but Iâm not sure itâs fully analyzed what Harleyâs role in it is. Harleyâs not just someone Joker manipulated; she could very well be someone he manipulated specifically as a retaliation against a perceived slight⌠from Batman.Â
âŚI think⌠I think that I think Joker views Harley as The Other Woman, The Mistress, and sees Batman as the ex-wife who just wonât stop living their best life without him, that he either wants back or to burn to the ground.Â
But that context only really exist if Harley is a late addition, as she was in New Earth. The motivations donât read the same if she comes along much earlier, but then you have to wrestle with the whole killing Jason thing and her reaction to that.Â
Idk, I donât think I have a point, just some food for thought. A nice jungle juice of barely connected concepts. I hope you got something out of this stream of consciousness.Â
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