Hi đ I've seen your theories on limbus company and I'd like to have your opinion on the chapter 8 ? Did you watch the live ? Any theories so far ?
Hi! First, thank you for the ask and sorry I took a long time to answer !
I did watch the live and it was super interesting but of course what I was the most interested in was the preview image for Canto VIII. And so of course I have some things to say regarding this image:
Firstly, regarding the original title, Iâve already seen many people mention the direct translation of the Korean title, which would literally give something like: âThere is no other choice but to look.â
If we were to adapt it to make the sentence sound more natural in English, it would be: âI have no choice but to look.â
ìë°ì ìë is a grammatical structure often used to express the lack of choice or alternatives.
We canât help but draw a parallel between this phrase and Hong Luâs situation: Hong Lu has no choice but to observe and accept his situation and what happens to him. It emphasizes his lack of choice and personal will, as well as his inability to act upon it.
The use of a verb related to the sense of the view is always amusing when talking about Hong Lu.
Now, looking at the English title: âThe Surrendered Witnessingâ, I think it can be interpreted this way:
Hong Lu is the surrendered one: he is the one who has yielded, abandoned, and submitted.
Thus, he now merely observes and accepts what happens around him, as well as what happens to him/what he is asked to do, etc.
Strangely or not, I canât help but think, when reading these two titles, of a very important Taoist concept for the character Jia Baoyu: âwu weiâ (æ äžș).
In Taoist philosophy, wu wei is often translated as ânon-actionâ or âeffortless actionâ. This does not mean total inaction but rather a way of acting in harmony with the natural flow of things, without forcing or resisting. Itâs the idea of letting things unfold naturally.
However, if this concept has been corrupted by the influence of Hong Luâs family and, in a way, by the tone of Limbus Companyâs world, we can quickly see how this concept could have been distorted and used to shape a docile Hong Lu who relies on this idea of non-action to accept and justify what happens to him and what he has likely endured for a long time.
Perhaps this is even the famous concept Faust mentioned, which Hong Lu relies on to avoid breaking down and distorting. After all, if one considers it normal to act and respond according to the influence of oneâs surroundings (for Hong Lu, his family) and to accept this as self-evident in a way, then it is probably easier to live with such a situation. But if this foundation is questioned, then everything Hong Lu has accepted and endured is also called into question, inevitably leading to the question: âThen why did I endure all of this if not for that reason?â
Of course, Hong Luâs character makes it easier for him to accept this vision, and his upbringing and naivety undoubtedly play a role.
As for the Chinese phrase on the right äžæè§æ: it could be translated as âDo not hesitate or wait and see,â or, to elaborate, âAvoid overthinking and hesitating.â
âą äž: not â> mark of negation
âą æ: consider / think of / long for / miss / think
âą è§æ: wait and see, watch something from the sidelines (waiting without taking action)
It seems to respond to the title and directly contradict it.
It appears to encourage taking action and not waiting, emphasizing avoiding overthinking or remaining in passive observation.
Is this the influence of Lin Daiyu?
Regardless, it seems to be adresed to Hong Lu and to invite him to break from this mechanism of « non-action » and to move forward / take action.
Then, if we look a little at this teaser image itself, we can see Hong Luâs house, his mansion, still in these red colors but appearing much larger and more imposing than I would have thought based on what we could see in his EGO. But what we see in Hong Luâs EGO might just be an interior part of the mansion.
The mansion indeed seems âclosedâ and surrounded by walls protecting it from the outside.
Finally, this turquoise luminous mist surrounding the mansion is quite interesting because, first, it obviously evokes the idea that this place is a lost illusion, created through an illusory fog.
The fact that its color is close to that of Hong Lu makes me wonder if this illusion is maintained somehow through Hong Luâs existence or presence.
Potpourri of small ideas and theories (The first 4 are more affirmative than the others):
1. A theory Iâve had for a long time: Hong Lu actually ran away from his home in our world, and his family is looking for him.
2. Recovering the golden bough wonât be the hardest thing and might even be given to us by Hong Luâs family in exchange for his return.
3. The golden bough will be located at the center of the mansion in a place called the Prospect Garden â> a place where Jia Baoyu spent part of his childhood/adolescence with his maids and cousins.
4. Hong Luâs EGO phrase will change to: âLetâs go visit the Paradise of Truthâ (the new name for The Land of Illusions during Jia Baoyuâs second visit at the end of the novel).
5. Hong Lu is (linked) to an abnormality (maybe Yin and Yang).
6. Does Hong Lu have a connection with the Moonstone?
7. Does Hong Lu bear the Mark of Cain? (Yes, I want to know which other sinner(s) have this f*cking mark. Sonia hinted at it!)
8. The fairy-like abnormality will appear / be relevant for this Canto to make a parallel between the fairies from Dream of the Red Chamber and the ones from Limbus Company. They also share a color palette similar to the one of Hong Luâs left eye.
Let's talk about why Hong Luâs left eye (his jade) is getting dimmer and what are the powers and characteristics of Jia Baoyu's jade in Dream of the Red Chamber.
Today, I would like to discuss Danteâs mysterious phrase about Hong Lu, taking the opportunity to explore the jade of Jia Baoyu in more detail, especially its powers and the influence it exerts over Jia Baoyu. Here is the structure of the discussion:
Does the light of Hong Lu symbolize his break from his false reality?
Does the light of Hong Lu symbolize the end of his journey and his will to "live"?
The appearance of Jia Baoyu's jade and its powers + their loss and how they are regained
Its connection with Jia Baoyu
Brief conclusion
Does the light of Hong Lu symbolize his break from his false reality?
In Canto VII, a phrase from Dante naturally captured the attention of all Hong Lu theorists. Dante observes the following thing about Hong Luâs eye:
"I noticed that the light in Hong Lu's left eye was growing dimmer, like light fading away as it sinks into the depths of the dark watersâŠ"
But what does this mean? To answer that, we must first determine what this light signifies before interpreting its disappearance. For that, we need to consider the dialogue preceding Danteâs remarkâthe words of Hong Lu himself when he speaks about the sparkling in Don Quixoteâs eyes:
"Isn't Don Quixote the most lucid one out of all of us?"
"Her eyes, Dante. Always twinkling like two bright stars. They're so fascinating."
To Hong Lu, the glow in the eyes seems to be linked to clarity of mind and awareness. To him, Don Quixote is the most lucid of all because her eyes twinkle like two bright stars. Yet we know this is inaccurate, as Don Quixote is immersed in the illusion she created by erasing her memory at this point. So, itâs reasonable to suspect that Hong Lu's interpretation might be flawed.
This is also consistent with what we know about Hong Lu. Despite his frequent insightful observations and quick understanding of reality, his judgment can sometimes be clouded by his upbringing. After all, one of the first things we learn about him is that his view of the world and his interpretations can be distorted by his sheltered life.
Are we, therefore, dealing with a case where Hong Luâs upbringing prevents him from perceiving the truth?
Don Quixoteâs reality is an illusion, much like Hong Luâs appears to be. But because he sees his form of reality reflected in Don Quixoteâs, he can only conclude that Don Quixoteâs twinkling eyes are an expression of clarity when it might actually be the opposite. This could foreshadow Hong Luâs arc of breaking away from his past, family, and conditioning, realizing that what he associates with reality might be a lie, simply because he didnât know any better.
After all, Dulcinea connects the term "naive" with Don Quixoteâs twinkling eyes, (and "naive" is the adjective used for Hong Lu):
"I almost prefer that naive look from earlier.
I still hated your eyes, twinkling or not, butâŠ"
To clarify what ânaiveâ implies, I like relying on The Walking Dead 4âs definition: Naive means you think a certain way because you donât know the way it really is.
I find this perfectly matches how naivety is understood in the world of Limbus Company, even if we cannot be certain of that. But if we accept that this definition applies to ânaiveâ in Project moonâs world, then being naive implies both innocenceâalmost childlikeâand living in a lie or denial of reality.
Additionally, the emphasis on the sparkles might support the theory of the moonstone, or that Hong Lu is connected to the abnormality Yang, as it involves disregarding reality (to avoid mental breakdown). But we are not here to talk about that.
Thus, if Hong Lu is mistaken, and the twinkling represents disillusionment and denial of reality, then the more Hong Lu's eye sparkles, the more heâs immersed in illusion, a false sense of truth.
So, the first reason Hong Luâs eye is dimming could be that heâs beginning to realize his reality wasnât true, symbolizing the start of his awakening. After all, even Vergilius reacted with « âŠÂ » to Hong Luâs remark so it could mean that he knows that Hong Lu is in the wrong.
So, if the glow represents the jade influences on Hong Luâs mental state and perception of reality, then the dimming of his jadeâs light might signify that heâs starting to break free from this mental crutch. However this is not what I believe inâŠ
Does the light of Hong Lu symbolize the end of his journey and his will to "live"?
What bothers me is that Dante describes the dimming of Hong Luâs eye light in a rather pessimistic, almost fatalistic way, as though Hong Lu is fading along with his jade's light, loosing himself:
"I noticed that the light in Hong Lu's left eye was growing dimmer, like light fading away as it sinks into the depths of the dark watersâŠ"
So, if this dimming light is a symbol of breaking free from an illusion why does Dante describe this so negatively with an emphasis on the idea of loosing Hong Lu? Maybe because, it is indeed a bad omen.
According to what Dulcinea says, Don Quixote's eyes were empty of light before when she was Sancho, this absence of twinkling at the time seems to be linked to the fact that Don Quixote/Sancho does not really believe in life and has already suffered too much from the latter.
Dad Quixote then offers her a new life and hopes to bring those stars into her eyes by giving her a new family and then inviting her to participate in her adventures with him.
If we follow this analysis, then the light in Hong Luâs eye equals his will to live and optimism about the future. So if this light is fading, does that mean Hong Lu is beginning to lose the will to live?
Well, yes, I think so... but in a very specific way.
Hear me out, Hong Luâs eye is dimming because heâs aware his journey is nearing its end, that 7 of the 12 sinners have already regained their golden boughs, and that he may be the next:
Hong Luâs day is ending, and it is reflected in his eye. I would even go so far as to say Hong Lu, in some way (without being aware of it), equates his return home with the end of his life (this life of new experiences and in the City, and this life with freedom).
So, this take is much more of a speculation than the last one, but if we stick with the idea that twinkling = will to live (forward) then Hong Lu started his journey in a new world with a bright eye with expectations and a desire to live new experiences, but he knows that one day he will have to return home, he knows that his journey will end one day and therefore it is normal that the closer Hong Lu gets to his golden bough moment the more the light of his eye fades, since this will be the end of his "new experiences".
Which could also echo Hong Lu's suicidal tendencies.
But then, why does Hong Luâs eye produce sparks during Bloodfiend Hunter, Liu Story, and Yurodivy Story?
And it is now, that I would like to propose something. What if we separated the glow of Hong Luâs eye and the sparks it produces: What if these two manifestations relate to different things? If Hong Luâs glow reflects his mental state, then perhaps the sparks represent an effect of his jadeâs power.
This leads me to discuss Jia Baoyuâs jade, both to support this analysis and to share information about the stone and its powers for those who might not have time to read the novel.
The appearance of Jia Baoyu's jade and its powers + their loss and how they are regained
In Chapter 8, Jia Baoyuâs jade is described as follows:
The size of a sparrow egg (about 22.5 mm)
Shining like a bright coppery cloud
Smooth and lustrous like marbled cream.
On the jadeâs face is inscribed:
"Precious Gem of Spiritual Perception (also called Precious Jade of Spiritual Understanding).
If thou wilt lose me not and never forget me, Eternal life and constant luck will be with thee!"
This means the stone is a talisman of protection and happiness. If Baoyu (or whoever holds it) keeps it close and never forgets it, they will be blessed with a long, prosperous life.
The reverse side reads:
"To exorcize evil spirits and the accessory visitations; to cure predestined sickness; to prognosticate weal and woe."
This inscription highlights the jadeâs protective power: it can ward off evil, cure illness, and predict fortune or disaster. It is both a magical and prophetic object.
This ability is confirmed again in chapter 25 when a Taoist priest says:
âIn your family, you have readily at hand a precious thing, the like of which is rare to find in the world. It possesses the virtue of alleviating the ailment, so why need you inquire about remedies?â
It is then revealed that it appears that the jade has lost some of its powers due to the dissipated life Baoyu has led; it has been polluted by music, lust, the pursuit of wealth, and other worldly distractions.
The monk then fix the jade and recites a poem reflecting the spiritual journey of the jade, as well as Baoyu's. In it, we are told:
The jade was once bound neither by heaven nor earth, existing in a state of spiritual purity undisturbed by human emotions (joy or sorrow).
However, upon entering the human world, it was exposed to disturbances. The jade is now tarnished by material elements ("the traces of powder and rouge stains"), symbolizing the carnal pleasures and temptations to which Baoyu has succumbed.
Finally, the monk predicts that, although the jade is currently trapped ("caged like a duck"), it will awaken from its "slumber," and once it fulfills its destiny, it will be freed.
[Little paranthesis]
I find the sentence used by the mond really interesting : "House bars both day and night encage thee like a duck" because it is really fitting for (yes Jia Baoyu but also) Hong's Lu's situation, especially with the use of the word "house".
[End of the little paranthesis]
Its connection with Jia Baoyu
The jade and Baoyu are interconnected and can be seen as one and the same, with each influencing the other. For instance, Baoyu's mood and emotions affect the appearance of the jade (its brightness), and the presence of the jade impacts Jia Baoyu's mental state (its absence renders him completely witless/foolish).
At one point in the novel, Jia Baoyu's jade shines particularly brightly when he believes he will marry Lin Daiyu (when he will actually marry Xue Baochai). This strong light seems to be triggered by Jia Baoyu aligning with his spiritual destiny.
All of this to say that even in the novel the glow of Jia Baoyuâs jade can mean several things at the time.
Brief conclusion
Returning to Hong Lu, I wonder if Project Moon has separated the manifestation of the jade's powers from the expression of its alignment with Hong Luâs mental state: therefore, when there are small sparks, it indicates that his jadeâs powers are manifesting, while the varying intensity of light would reflect a part of his mental state.
It would suggest that Hong Lu, as an individual, is gradually disappearing, maybe renouncing to his will, becoming a puppet entirely under his family's control. Indeed, when Jia Baoyu loses his jade and becomes completely foolish, his behavior shows that he is controllable and malleable; he is so witless that he cannot act independently and only repeats what he is told.
However, I canât complete this analysis without mentioning that Jia Baoyuâs jade also loses its shine due to worldly influences, like music, lust, the pursuit of wealth, and other earthly distractions.
So, does the cityâs dark and horrific environment tarnish Hong Lu's jade?
Well, the issue is that, although the city is an apocalyptic world grounded in reality, it canât truly be described as an environment where Hong Lu experiences lust or wealth, the false pleasures of life; which are what tarnish the jade in DOTRC.
On the contrary, he lives more of a life that Jia Baoyu begins to envy at one point in the novel because it is a life free from the obligations and facades imposed on him by his family. Therefore, what he is currently experiencing should not affect the brightness of his eye.
So, after all this blabla, I think that Hong Luâs eye is gradually getting dimmer as the end of Hong Lu's journey approaches, which signifies the end of his new experiences and his return to a life of wealth but also to a life with his family and to how things used to be.
We could see this light fading away as an hourglass where the sand is slowly falling down but little by little there will be no more remaining sand at the top.
I fear that when this happens, by going back home, Hong Lu will lose all individuality and will, becoming docile and obedient as he seems to have always been at home. And he is accepting this and it is because he is accepting this that his eye is getting dimmer, it is reflecting Hong Luâs decline.
I think that during Hong Luâs Canto, one of the biggest challenges will not only be to retrieve the golden bough but also to convince Hong Lu to leave with us. Itâs almost certain that when we reach his home, Hong Lu wonât be able to leave with us because, his family wonât allow it, and above all, he wonât want to either because heâll convince himself that he can't and that his little trip is over.
Iâd like to finish by saying that Hong Luâs Rose Hunter EGO Corrosion could really be linked to this because we can see that Hong Lu in his corrosion has a hangmanâs like rope around his neck, formed by his horseâs reins.
Even if I want to analyse Hong Luâs EGOs in another post I will just say that for me it is the symbol that Hong Lu is dependent of his (determined) fate and the will of the narrative (his family) even if it has to equal to his death (literally or figuratively or mentally we donât know). I think it also means that even if Hong Lu believe being in control of his actions and decisions, in reality he is just following the lead of « his horse », the one conducting him, deciding where he is going â and so I think following his familyâs wishes.
They (the abnormality and Hong Lu) didnât choose to live this way, but they had no choice, and the flowers take advantage of their vulnerability to impose their presence and will:
« Those flowers were not planted or raised by the couple.
Well, we donât know if thatâs the case for Hong Lu, but given everything we know, and to use the parallel between the two, itâs not far-fetched to say that Hong Lu is likely in a similar situation.
That was my first addition. Then, even if itâs clear that even if the abnormality represents an early commitment and the inability to leave the relationship due to the presence and expectations of others, forcing the grooms to live supporting each other and literally bleeding to fulfill the hunger of others (the flowers):
« The buds appear to be filled with someoneâs blood.
The bride and groom crawl between them.
As they scuttle around, blood seeps out of their hands and feet. »
This description is strangely fitting for Hong Lu.
Hong Lu finds himself enduring a situation even if it wounds him, all to satisfy the hunger of, I guess, his family.
Itâs even more fitting if the theme of marriage is also addressed and used in Hong Luâs Canto, echoing Jia Baoyu, who had to marry and enter this relationship because of his family.
« When you plucked a blood-soaked flower, it expressed joy. »
Since the vines are also their home, even though itâs what wounds them, trapped them and makes them bleed over the flowers, itâs their home (the spider web) where they live, which is why they get angry when someone tries to destroy their home. But if someone chooses to remove a flower, it makes the abnormality happy because itâs like removing a part of the problem, an unwanted guest from their homeâa freeloader, someone feeding off their suffering and who pressured them to stay together and trapped in this web.
They canât remove them themselves because they are there under the guise of congratulatory flowers, but if someone else does, they will be pleased because itâs one less problem, one less flower to feed/satisfy.
Let's talk about why Hong Luâs left eye (his jade) is getting dimmer and what are the powers and characteristics of Jia Baoyu's jade in Dream of the Red Chamber.
Today, I would like to discuss Danteâs mysterious phrase about Hong Lu, taking the opportunity to explore the jade of Jia Baoyu in more detail, especially its powers and the influence it exerts over Jia Baoyu. Here is the structure of the discussion:
Does the light of Hong Lu symbolize his break from his false reality?
Does the light of Hong Lu symbolize the end of his journey and his will to "live"?
The appearance of Jia Baoyu's jade and its powers + their loss and how they are regained
Its connection with Jia Baoyu
Brief conclusion
Does the light of Hong Lu symbolize his break from his false reality?
In Canto VII, a phrase from Dante naturally captured the attention of all Hong Lu theorists. Dante observes the following thing about Hong Luâs eye:
"I noticed that the light in Hong Lu's left eye was growing dimmer, like light fading away as it sinks into the depths of the dark watersâŠ"
But what does this mean? To answer that, we must first determine what this light signifies before interpreting its disappearance. For that, we need to consider the dialogue preceding Danteâs remarkâthe words of Hong Lu himself when he speaks about the sparkling in Don Quixoteâs eyes:
"Isn't Don Quixote the most lucid one out of all of us?"
"Her eyes, Dante. Always twinkling like two bright stars. They're so fascinating."
To Hong Lu, the glow in the eyes seems to be linked to clarity of mind and awareness. To him, Don Quixote is the most lucid of all because her eyes twinkle like two bright stars. Yet we know this is inaccurate, as Don Quixote is immersed in the illusion she created by erasing her memory at this point. So, itâs reasonable to suspect that Hong Lu's interpretation might be flawed.
This is also consistent with what we know about Hong Lu. Despite his frequent insightful observations and quick understanding of reality, his judgment can sometimes be clouded by his upbringing. After all, one of the first things we learn about him is that his view of the world and his interpretations can be distorted by his sheltered life.
Are we, therefore, dealing with a case where Hong Luâs upbringing prevents him from perceiving the truth?
Don Quixoteâs reality is an illusion, much like Hong Luâs appears to be. But because he sees his form of reality reflected in Don Quixoteâs, he can only conclude that Don Quixoteâs twinkling eyes are an expression of clarity when it might actually be the opposite. This could foreshadow Hong Luâs arc of breaking away from his past, family, and conditioning, realizing that what he associates with reality might be a lie, simply because he didnât know any better.
After all, Dulcinea connects the term "naive" with Don Quixoteâs twinkling eyes, (and "naive" is the adjective used for Hong Lu):
"I almost prefer that naive look from earlier.
I still hated your eyes, twinkling or not, butâŠ"
To clarify what ânaiveâ implies, I like relying on The Walking Dead 4âs definition: Naive means you think a certain way because you donât know the way it really is.
I find this perfectly matches how naivety is understood in the world of Limbus Company, even if we cannot be certain of that. But if we accept that this definition applies to ânaiveâ in Project moonâs world, then being naive implies both innocenceâalmost childlikeâand living in a lie or denial of reality.
Additionally, the emphasis on the sparkles might support the theory of the moonstone, or that Hong Lu is connected to the abnormality Yang, as it involves disregarding reality (to avoid mental breakdown). But we are not here to talk about that.
Thus, if Hong Lu is mistaken, and the twinkling represents disillusionment and denial of reality, then the more Hong Lu's eye sparkles, the more heâs immersed in illusion, a false sense of truth.
So, the first reason Hong Luâs eye is dimming could be that heâs beginning to realize his reality wasnât true, symbolizing the start of his awakening. After all, even Vergilius reacted with « âŠÂ » to Hong Luâs remark so it could mean that he knows that Hong Lu is in the wrong.
So, if the glow represents the jade influences on Hong Luâs mental state and perception of reality, then the dimming of his jadeâs light might signify that heâs starting to break free from this mental crutch. However this is not what I believe inâŠ
Does the light of Hong Lu symbolize the end of his journey and his will to "live"?
What bothers me is that Dante describes the dimming of Hong Luâs eye light in a rather pessimistic, almost fatalistic way, as though Hong Lu is fading along with his jade's light, loosing himself:
"I noticed that the light in Hong Lu's left eye was growing dimmer, like light fading away as it sinks into the depths of the dark watersâŠ"
So, if this dimming light is a symbol of breaking free from an illusion why does Dante describe this so negatively with an emphasis on the idea of loosing Hong Lu? Maybe because, it is indeed a bad omen.
According to what Dulcinea says, Don Quixote's eyes were empty of light before when she was Sancho, this absence of twinkling at the time seems to be linked to the fact that Don Quixote/Sancho does not really believe in life and has already suffered too much from the latter.
Dad Quixote then offers her a new life and hopes to bring those stars into her eyes by giving her a new family and then inviting her to participate in her adventures with him.
If we follow this analysis, then the light in Hong Luâs eye equals his will to live and optimism about the future. So if this light is fading, does that mean Hong Lu is beginning to lose the will to live?
Well, yes, I think so... but in a very specific way.
Hear me out, Hong Luâs eye is dimming because heâs aware his journey is nearing its end, that 7 of the 12 sinners have already regained their golden boughs, and that he may be the next:
Hong Luâs day is ending, and it is reflected in his eye. I would even go so far as to say Hong Lu, in some way (without being aware of it), equates his return home with the end of his life (this life of new experiences and in the City, and this life with freedom).
So, this take is much more of a speculation than the last one, but if we stick with the idea that twinkling = will to live (forward) then Hong Lu started his journey in a new world with a bright eye with expectations and a desire to live new experiences, but he knows that one day he will have to return home, he knows that his journey will end one day and therefore it is normal that the closer Hong Lu gets to his golden bough moment the more the light of his eye fades, since this will be the end of his "new experiences".
Which could also echo Hong Lu's suicidal tendencies.
But then, why does Hong Luâs eye produce sparks during Bloodfiend Hunter, Liu Story, and Yurodivy Story?
And it is now, that I would like to propose something. What if we separated the glow of Hong Luâs eye and the sparks it produces: What if these two manifestations relate to different things? If Hong Luâs glow reflects his mental state, then perhaps the sparks represent an effect of his jadeâs power.
This leads me to discuss Jia Baoyuâs jade, both to support this analysis and to share information about the stone and its powers for those who might not have time to read the novel.
The appearance of Jia Baoyu's jade and its powers + their loss and how they are regained
In Chapter 8, Jia Baoyuâs jade is described as follows:
The size of a sparrow egg (about 22.5 mm)
Shining like a bright coppery cloud
Smooth and lustrous like marbled cream.
On the jadeâs face is inscribed:
"Precious Gem of Spiritual Perception (also called Precious Jade of Spiritual Understanding).
If thou wilt lose me not and never forget me, Eternal life and constant luck will be with thee!"
This means the stone is a talisman of protection and happiness. If Baoyu (or whoever holds it) keeps it close and never forgets it, they will be blessed with a long, prosperous life.
The reverse side reads:
"To exorcize evil spirits and the accessory visitations; to cure predestined sickness; to prognosticate weal and woe."
This inscription highlights the jadeâs protective power: it can ward off evil, cure illness, and predict fortune or disaster. It is both a magical and prophetic object.
This ability is confirmed again in chapter 25 when a Taoist priest says:
âIn your family, you have readily at hand a precious thing, the like of which is rare to find in the world. It possesses the virtue of alleviating the ailment, so why need you inquire about remedies?â
It is then revealed that it appears that the jade has lost some of its powers due to the dissipated life Baoyu has led; it has been polluted by music, lust, the pursuit of wealth, and other worldly distractions.
The monk then fix the jade and recites a poem reflecting the spiritual journey of the jade, as well as Baoyu's. In it, we are told:
The jade was once bound neither by heaven nor earth, existing in a state of spiritual purity undisturbed by human emotions (joy or sorrow).
However, upon entering the human world, it was exposed to disturbances. The jade is now tarnished by material elements ("the traces of powder and rouge stains"), symbolizing the carnal pleasures and temptations to which Baoyu has succumbed.
Finally, the monk predicts that, although the jade is currently trapped ("caged like a duck"), it will awaken from its "slumber," and once it fulfills its destiny, it will be freed.
[Little paranthesis]
I find the sentence used by the mond really interesting : "House bars both day and night encage thee like a duck" because it is really fitting for (yes Jia Baoyu but also) Hong's Lu's situation, especially with the use of the word "house".
[End of the little paranthesis]
Its connection with Jia Baoyu
The jade and Baoyu are interconnected and can be seen as one and the same, with each influencing the other. For instance, Baoyu's mood and emotions affect the appearance of the jade (its brightness), and the presence of the jade impacts Jia Baoyu's mental state (its absence renders him completely witless/foolish).
At one point in the novel, Jia Baoyu's jade shines particularly brightly when he believes he will marry Lin Daiyu (when he will actually marry Xue Baochai). This strong light seems to be triggered by Jia Baoyu aligning with his spiritual destiny.
All of this to say that even in the novel the glow of Jia Baoyuâs jade can mean several things at the time.
Brief conclusion
Returning to Hong Lu, I wonder if Project Moon has separated the manifestation of the jade's powers from the expression of its alignment with Hong Luâs mental state: therefore, when there are small sparks, it indicates that his jadeâs powers are manifesting, while the varying intensity of light would reflect a part of his mental state.
It would suggest that Hong Lu, as an individual, is gradually disappearing, maybe renouncing to his will, becoming a puppet entirely under his family's control. Indeed, when Jia Baoyu loses his jade and becomes completely foolish, his behavior shows that he is controllable and malleable; he is so witless that he cannot act independently and only repeats what he is told.
However, I canât complete this analysis without mentioning that Jia Baoyuâs jade also loses its shine due to worldly influences, like music, lust, the pursuit of wealth, and other earthly distractions.
So, does the cityâs dark and horrific environment tarnish Hong Lu's jade?
Well, the issue is that, although the city is an apocalyptic world grounded in reality, it canât truly be described as an environment where Hong Lu experiences lust or wealth, the false pleasures of life; which are what tarnish the jade in DOTRC.
On the contrary, he lives more of a life that Jia Baoyu begins to envy at one point in the novel because it is a life free from the obligations and facades imposed on him by his family. Therefore, what he is currently experiencing should not affect the brightness of his eye.
So, after all this blabla, I think that Hong Luâs eye is gradually getting dimmer as the end of Hong Lu's journey approaches, which signifies the end of his new experiences and his return to a life of wealth but also to a life with his family and to how things used to be.
We could see this light fading away as an hourglass where the sand is slowly falling down but little by little there will be no more remaining sand at the top.
I fear that when this happens, by going back home, Hong Lu will lose all individuality and will, becoming docile and obedient as he seems to have always been at home. And he is accepting this and it is because he is accepting this that his eye is getting dimmer, it is reflecting Hong Luâs decline.
I think that during Hong Luâs Canto, one of the biggest challenges will not only be to retrieve the golden bough but also to convince Hong Lu to leave with us. Itâs almost certain that when we reach his home, Hong Lu wonât be able to leave with us because, his family wonât allow it, and above all, he wonât want to either because heâll convince himself that he can't and that his little trip is over.
Iâd like to finish by saying that Hong Luâs Rose Hunter EGO Corrosion could really be linked to this because we can see that Hong Lu in his corrosion has a hangmanâs like rope around his neck, formed by his horseâs reins.
Even if I want to analyse Hong Luâs EGOs in another post I will just say that for me it is the symbol that Hong Lu is dependent of his (determined) fate and the will of the narrative (his family) even if it has to equal to his death (literally or figuratively or mentally we donât know). I think it also means that even if Hong Lu believe being in control of his actions and decisions, in reality he is just following the lead of « his horse », the one conducting him, deciding where he is going â and so I think following his familyâs wishes.
I want to talk about part 1 and 2 of Canto VII but I donât have time to write everything properly but what I want to say, and that no one has talked about yet, because of course Don is the star itâs normal that people are talking about her especially after everything that has happened butâŠ
Here we are, we have the confirmation that Hong Lu = Baoyu.
It really took me 15 seconds to understand that Baoyuâs name had been used! And to talk about Hong Lu on top of that, I screamed so much when my brain connected these lines and what they implied.
Anyway, even if the theory that Hong Lu = Jia Baoyu was I think at 97% considered canon by the fandom there was still this tiny doubt that Hong Lu was not Baoyu and whoah itâs strange to finally connect the two⊠T^T
Canto VII provides us with a really good amount of lore on Hong Lu. And to be fair itâs pretty normal since heâs the next one to have a therapy session after Don, so itâs only natural that things are speeding up on his side, and what an acceleration it is, as weâve had the chance to meet a new member of his family. While weâve already encountered Jia Huan and heard a few mentions here and there of other members of his family (his father, grandmother, and so on), we hadnât been introduced to a single family member since Canto I. And honestly, fair enough, because even though the Jia family seems large, they also seem very distant from city life, as it feels like no one knows them, or at least no one recognizes Hong Lu, even people in important positions within the family.
But the most interesting part of this encounter is that weâve now had confirmation, apparently, that Jia Baoyuâs cousins have become siblings for Hong Lu (who is supposed to be Jia Baoyu), and another small detail is that Project Moon didnât let Hong Luâs little sister and her bodyguard use his name. Indeed, Hong Lu doesnât hesitate to say Xichunâs name, but she, on the other hand, simply calls him âbrother,â âmy naive brother,â while Wei calls him âyoung master.â So itâs still possible that Hong Lu is not his real name.
With that, I think itâs time for me to make a post recapping Jia Baoyuâs cousins and siblings to help those who havenât read the novel (and those who have, because oh boy, this family is so big, itâs easy to get lost among the different branches).
This post aims to introduce the various cousins of Jia Baoyu by briefly giving some info about them. If youâre interested, I also made a post about Baoyuâs family members, including his grandparents, parents, uncles and aunts (by blood, not marriage), and his brothers and sisters just here.
For this post, Iâve decided to talk about each of Jia Baoyuâs cousins in order of birth (from the oldest to the youngest) to help figure out where they might stand in relation to Hong Lu, if Project Moon has kept the birth order (Xichun seems to confirm it, but Jia Huan seems to contradict that, so weâll seeâŠ).
Even though Iâm not sure of the exact birth order Iâm using (I am not even sure there is a 100% clear one, Iâm 99% sure about their placement in relation to Jia Baoyu, knowing whether they are older or younger than him. This is the most interesting part, as this information will help us figure out who can be considered an older brother/sister to Hong Lu and who can be considered a little brother/little sister.
Thatâs also why, even though Iâm not explaining again Jia Baoyuâ siblings, Iâve still placed them in this birth order ranking to help with orientation, especially in relation to Jia Baoyu.
I realize this post doesnât help with visualizing the family as a whole, but my posts are more informational and serve to share snippets of the lore from The Dream of the Red Chamber, rather than creating a family tree.
Lastly, itâs worth noting that the Jia family is split into two main branches: Ningguo and Rongguo, two of the most prestigious aristocratic families in the capital. These branches descend from a common ancestor but are managed separately. I will try to indicate which branch each cousin belongs to.
To note:
The Ningguo house is the elder branch of the Jia family, descended from the elder of the two founding brothers. Although it is the elder branch, the Ningguo house is in decline in terms of wealth and influence compared to the Rongguo branch. Jia Zhen and other members of this branch are often involved in immoral behaviors, which further contributes to the decline of this part of the family.
The Rongguo house is the younger branch, founded by the second brother of the Jia family. It is more prosperous and influential than Ningguo, mainly due to the connections made by Jia Yuanchun, the daughter of Jia Zheng, who becomes an imperial concubine. This gives the branch an advantage and elevates its social status.
Jia Baoyu belongs to this branch.
Wang Ren:
Apparently, he is the elder brother of Wang Xifeng.
Son of the elder brother of Wang Ziteng, Lady Wang, Wang Zisheng, and Aunt Xue.
Jia Zhen, Ningguo House:
Head of the Ningguo House, the elder branch of the Jia Family. He inherited the title of marquis when his father (Jia Jing) became a Taoist practitioner.
Son of Jia Jing.
Husband of Lady You.
Father of Jia Rong.
Older brother of Jia Xichun.
Jia Baoyuâs oldest cousin.
He is not very focused on work and extremely greedy.
Leads a life of debauchery, preferring to chase women with his cousin Jia Lian.
He had an affair with his daughter-in-law Qin Keping (wife of Jia Rong, Jia Baoyuâs nephew).
Wang Xifeng, Rongguo House:
Also known as Sister Phoenix.
Daughter of Wang Ziteng, Lady Wang, Wang Zisheng, and Aunt Xue.
Wife of Jia Lian.
(yes, she is also his cousin by marriage because her motherâs sister is the wife of her husbandâs fatherâs brother, I know itâs complicated.)
Mother of Jia Qiaojie.
Sister of Wang Ren.
Proud, scheming, and incredibly capable, she manages the Jia family with rigor.
However, she is also vain, greedy, devious, and cruel.
She always blames others and takes all the credit for herself.
Her life ends due to a serious illness, and her ruined family eventually disperses.
She is the second person that Aunt Zhao (Jia Huanâs mother) tries to kill (besides Jia Baoyu) using black magic.
She is one of the 12 Beauties of Jin Lin.
Jia Lian, Rongguo House:
First son of Jia She (the older brother of Jia Baoyuâs father, Jia Zheng).
Husband of Wang Xifeng (Sister Phoenix).
(Yes, sheâs also his cousin by marriage since her motherâs sister is the wife of his fatherâs brother, I know itâs complicated.)
He also has a concubine (Second Sister You).
Father of Jia Qiaojie.
Half-brother to Jia Yingchun and Jia Cong.
He bought an official title but has some shady activities.
He is a notorious womanizer and has a strong sexual appetite.
His marriage with Wang Xifeng is only for appearance, and heâs more of a dandy.
He manages the finances and hires people with his wife, but they often argue over this power.
He is a frivolous man with flaws, but he still has a conscience.
She is the first of the quartet of "Springsâ, The quartet of springs is the name given to 4 of the Jia daughter
Already covered in the previous post
Xue Pan:
Son of Aunt Xue
Husband of Xia Jingui (wife who seems to have caused many troubles for the family)
Older brother of Xue Baochai
His father died when he was very young, and as a result, his mother indulges him excessively.
He is the opposite of his sister but holds a genuine respect for her.
Nicknamed the âStupid Despot.â
He leads a leisurely life and enjoys beautiful landscapes but also a dissolute lifestyle, including his attraction to men.
Arrogant, he relies on the powerful ones to bully others.
He has committed several murders as a result of fights and resolves his issues with money.
He is a typical thug and was a local bully in Jinling City, where the Xues came from.
Jia Baoyu, Hong Lu is here :D
Jia Yingchun, Rongguo House:
An extramarital child and the only daughter of Jia She (Jia Baoyuâs uncle).
Half-sister of Jia Lian.
She is honest but timid.
Yingchun is kind-hearted but lacks willpower and is described as having a âlistlessâ personality, indifferent to worldly affairs.
Although she is beautiful and cultured, she does not possess the intelligence or quick wit of her cousins.
Her most notable trait is her refusal to intervene in family matters.
She marries an imperial court official, in a desperate attempt by her father to restore the declining fortune of the Jia family.
After her marriage, she becomes a victim of domestic violence and is ultimately killed by her husband, a general.
She is one of the 12 Beauties of Jinling.
She is the second of the quartet of "Springsâ, The quartet of springs is the name given to 4 of the Jia daughter
Jia Cong:
Youngest son of Jia She and Lady Xing
Younger brother of Jia Lian and Jia Yingchun
To be honest I donât have anything else on him and I only put him here because he appeared in the Jia Familyâs tree
Shi Xiangyun, Rongguo House:
Granddaughter of Grandmother Jiaâs brother (the Dowagerâs brother).
Daughter of Shi Ding.
Favorite of Grandma Jia.
Her connection with Baoyu is strong, causing initial jealousy from Lin Daiyu, but they later become close.
She is exceptionally beautiful and is described as a tomboy, androgynous, dressing like a man and enjoying eating meat and drinking.
She was raised by her uncle after the death of her parents.
Orphaned, she remains optimistic, joyful, and full of humor despite a difficult life filled with tedious tasks like embroidery.
She embodies liveliness, naivety, optimism, and naturalness.
Very talented in poetry, she is almost as skilled as Lin Daiyu and Xue Baochai. She is part of the Crab Flower Club.
She will become a widow after her marriage.
One of the memorable scenes in the novel is in Chapter 62 when Xiangyun gets drunk and falls asleep among the flowers in the Prospect Garden, surrounded by butterflies.
She is one of the 12 Beauties of Jinling.
Xue Baochai, Rongguo House:
Daughter of Aunt Xue.
Wife of Jia Baoyu.
(Yes, she is also his cousin by blood since her mother is the sister of Jia Baoyuâs mother.)
Sister of Xue Pan.
She is a calm, distinguished, social woman with a pleasant, tolerant character, in contrast to Lin Daiyu.
She is the only one whose talents could rival Lin Daiyuâs and is described as very skilled in poetry.
She receives praise throughout the Jia household and helps Lady Wang with household management.
At the same time, she is very calculating.
Her wishes are fulfilled when she marries Jia Baoyu (as the perfect wife) and bears him a son, but she will remain alone in the end as her husband becomes a monk and disappears.
Her marriage is seen as a maneuver orchestrated by Wang Xifeng and Grandma Jia.
She is one of the 12 Beauties of Jinling.
Lin Daiyu, Rongguo House:
Daughter of Jia Min (sister of Jia She and Jia Zheng) and Lin Ruhai (a scholar and official from Suzhou).
(She is, in fact, Jia Baoyuâs cousin by blood, as her mother is the sister of Jia Baoyuâs father.)
Known by the nickname âPrincess of the Water.â
She is said to be the reincarnation of the Crimson Pearl Flower and has a deep connection to the jade stone (which Jia Baoyu embodies) that helped her when she was a flower.
She has lived with her maternal grandmother (Grandmother Jia) since the death of her father and mother (which is roughly when the story begins).
She is exceptionally beautiful, but her life is marked by chronic illness, which affects her fragile appearance.
She is a haughty, distant, and very sensitive young girl with exceptional intelligence.
More specifically, she is emotional, prone to melancholy and mood swings.
She is particularly vulnerable and often experiences jealousy, insecurity, and loneliness despite her elevated position in the household.
She is highly talented in poetry, and her poems are greatly admired, especially those composed during moments of melancholy, such as when she buries flower petals.
Her love for Jia Baoyu is mutual and is a major storyline in the novel (she is his soulmate, while Baochai represents the ideal social match).
On the day of Baoyu and Baochaiâs arranged wedding, she dies after crying all the tears from her body.
While Baochai embodies the virtuous and practical woman, Daiyu represents sensitivity and emotional fragility.
She is the third of the quartet of "Springsâ, The quartet of springs is the name given to 4 of the Jia daughter
Already covered in the previous post
Jia Huan, Half-Brother:
Already covered in the previous post
Jia Xichun, Ningguo House:
Daughter of Jia Jing.
Sister of Jia Zhen.
When she was little, her mother died, and Lady Wang brought her to the Rongguo Mansion.
She has been a devout Buddhist since childhood.
She is mainly depicted as an adolescent or pre-adolescent in the story.
She is a cold woman who always keeps her distance in human relations.
An excellent painter, she is tasked with painting the Prospect Garden for Granny Liu.
The death of the matriarch, the looting of the Prospect Garden, and the familyâs expropriation shake her life and drive her to convert to Taoism.
She is one of the 12 Beauties of Jinling.
She is the fourth of the quartet of "Springsâ, The quartet of springs is the name given to 4 of the Jia daughter
VoilĂ ! I hope this post will be useful and if i ever made a mistake do not hesitate to notify me :) and Iâll finish this post by saying that apparently Hong Lu would have 15 siblings (14 if we donât count the one who is dead at the beginning of the novel)
Continuation of the creation of E.G.O drawing in the form of key rings. I know I promised to show several next time but I ran out of time and was busy with another project but I hope you'll like it anyway
So sorry for the quality T^T i don't know why the preview looks like this, click for better quality
I tried to draw a drawing that could fit the format of a key ring and I'm pretty happy with the result. The exercise was super fun and I hope to be able to continue this "collection" of key chain illustrations based on EGOs or maybe on different identities.
I wanted to post more than one at a time but I couldn't finish the others and I really wanted to post something for the update of today
I started this drawing when Aya was first compared to Bram's daughter in the manga but I never found the time to finish it, but the last chapter was like a sign that I had to .... I also put the draft because I like it a lot and I prefer the expression I gave Aya on this last one
I just finished the Time Killing Event, it was awesome, love our trio of detectives. There are just some things I want to ramble about:
Spoilers below:
Tw: suicidal thoughts, suicidal behaviour (even if it is not stated as this and that it may not be to that extent, I prefer to put this in case, so if youâre uncomfortable with these subjects, donât go past the photo and stay safe)
Just wanted to start with, it was an event so funny, I really liked the comical situations and the story.
I loved all the illustrations (there were so many, it was so nice)
loved the interactions between the members of the bus
loved the focus we got on Rodya and also the bit of focus we got on Ryoshu (it was super nice to see that she had warmed up to the other sinners)
Dante please go talk to Ryoda, she needs to tell someone how she feels and put off her mask for the moment of a conversation
But I have to just ask: Hong Lu, are you okay?
Because like 60% of the time Hong Lu spoke I was like: wait what
Hong Lu are you okay ?! What do you mean âwhen my siblings tried to kill meâ, what do you mean âthe first timeâ?! And what did you just say about your family ?!
I know, we knew Hong Luâs past was probably as messed up as his family, and this event really confirmed it. But the way he talked about it, the way he talked about the first time (implying that there was others times) his siblings tried to kill him, how he proposed himself to be a bait to this time killing distortion, it was so unsettling but also kind of sad âcause Hong Lu clearly doesnât care about his end or even, in a certain way, himself. And the fact that he understood them wanting him dead, either because Hong Lu also wishes to be dead, or (and thatâs probably more this case) Hong Lu understood their hate for him because Hong Lu knows how to read people and how to understand them at a, sometimes, really deep emotional level. We saw it with Yi Sang, we saw it many times, Hong Lu is capable of very profound empathy.
Okay, sometimes he said things that are very off with what the sinner usually meant and so it passes as something pretentious or said by a rich guy who never had to live a hard life but sometimes those lighthearted comments also convey a form of truth or clue for the others to understand.
Hong Lu gave so much the impression that he wouldnât mind dying or at least doing something akin to dying. And the fact that he just want to experience a lot of things before having to go back to his family I guess, is still concerning for me because even though it seems that his family agreed on having Hong Lu going on a trip, I canât help but getting the impression that Hong Lu is a teenager who allegedly ran away from home following a crisis with his family. And I know Hong Lu never phrased it like that and everything is pointing toward him going on a little trip with his familyâs authorisation , but I canât shake off this impression that thatâs not the case âŠ
And this sentence about the world staying unchanged, what does this mean??? Of course, it made me think about the book, but I donât know yet how to put it together yet. You see, if I get it right, one of the thing The Dream of Red Chamber tackles is this notion that nothing is truly unchanging, even more, that things are constantly changing and so never the same, never a fix thing/identity. And these changements are something that Jia Baoyu has to learn and recognise as being a part of his mortal life in âourâ world. And there is more and more to this theme but I am not going to dwell on this nowâŠ
Bref, Hong Lu made it clear that he lived through the Hunger Games when he was with his family and that there are many things wrong with this latest and Hong Luâs past and everything surrounding itâŠ
Still no mentions of Lin Daiyu, I keep wondering where will she fit in all of thisâŠ
Hong Lu also mention his second oldest aunt which could be Lin Daiyuâs mother (Jia Min) or Xue Pan and Xue Baochaiâs mother (Aunt Xue) and Baochai is the one who ends up marrying Jia Baoyu in the book âŠ
Anyway, I am also glad that this event highlighted once again that fact that Hong Lu knows how to read people on an emotional level.
On another note, the story of Hong Luâs new identity was nice because once again it proves that Hong Lu knows how to observe and analyse others and details but his left eye was not mentioned⊠so idk what to think because is it it hidden between the lines ? Is his left eye not involved in this ? Or is this a reference to the book? See, for the third option, which I find interesting, it reminded me of the fact that even though the jade with which Baoyu was born is recognise as something precious and magical, its existence is not really questioned nor are his magical powers. Nobody really question how, why Jia Baoyu comes to be born with a jade in his mouth, its just a fact.
It doesn't seem like I've seen many people, or anyone at all, point out this detail, but you can distinguish small sparks near Hong Lu's eye, similar to those in the Liu Association story, aka the only story and even the only moment in the game where we focus specifically on Hong Lu's left eye and where itâs described as being able to do something (shine).
Maybe it's a small detail, , with no real meaning other than an aesthetic one, but since Hong Lu's chapter is approaching and we still know very little about his left eye, I'm holding onto the hope that this story will talk about it again. So Iâm hype and canât wait to see what this identity will have in store.
Anyway, I just can't wait to discover this new semi-chapter, so happy that Hong Lu gets some screen time.
