The Joker Is Not Straight

Joker kinnie femboy. Unwholesome villain appreciation, problematic media, some discourse, some meta, art and fic. Batjokes, general batmans, superheroes, Helluva Boss, Stolitz, ASOIAF, Sandman, comics, Drag Race, OFMD, WWDITS, horror of all kinds, kink, media theory, queerness. You can find me at "Dracze" on AO3, twitter, pillowfort, cohost. Pronouns: "she/her"or "he/him". Genderfluid and queer af.

[dracze]

I'm almost finished writing the Marius installment of my Omega Armand series, and now I'm stuck trying to decide: do I post it as soon as it's done, so tonight or Sunday night, and to hell with any inconsistencies with canon since that part is inspired by the books? Or do I wait until the ep with Chris's Marius actually drops, whenever that may be, so I can go back and edit any of my characterization of him to better fit the show?

This releasing one ep a week deal for TVL is ass, man.

[hollowwaveremnant]

There are actors who can monologue for hours and I am unable to fathom a single emotion of what they're trying to convey. Assad Zaman, with the slight, closed mouth chewing, and the brief, subtle lip corner pull that raises the apple of his cheek ever so slightly, gave me more to think about with his suppressed smile of 2 seconds and no dialogue. The entire cast of TVL is elite, but goddamn Assad really gets to me.

[ahmurderbydeath]

Watching S3E1 and the lengths the writers have gone through to show, in just a few brief moments, the breaking of Lestat by the mere appearance of Gabriella… I will be *livid* if we are subjected to yet another mishandling of Armand and Marius’ reunion (as written in QOTD), where there is no acknowledgement of the *intense* and *crushing* trauma that not only Armand suffered through in his human life, yes even under the hands of his maker, but the mind-shattering reality of having your only guardian, the person you trusted the most (for better or worse), turn you into an immortal being, then be BURNED “ALIVE” IN FRONT OF YOU — only to find out not only did that person survive, they NEVER CAME BACK FOR YOU. Never reached out. KNEW that you were kidnapped into a cult, and according to the book TVL, decided that was too much effort to rescue you from, especially since you seemed to be buying into the cult nonsense, **even though you HAD TO in order to SURVIVE**. And then this being that you had built up as a perfect deity in your mind, that you believed you saw die in front of you, whose death you believed was YOUR FAULT… he opens up to this blonde upstart and shows him things he never shared with you?? And then one day, the world is falling apart, and you walk into a room and there he is?? This mythical being?? That you thought died?? But instead just never cared enough for you to even write a letter?? To say he’s at least alive??

Rolin, I beg you, GIVE THIS MOMENT TO ASSAD. Armand deserves to finally have that, to come to terms with that heart-wrenching break, that utter collapse of his entire world… let him cry, scream, explode, LET HIM HAVE THAT. Give him what Anne didn’t! Let our hearts break for him, let us see that child within the man that begs for some kind of reckoning… let us glimpse that broken boy, like you are letting us see in Lestat’s scene with his mother.

Marius, and that traumatic night Armand was ripped away from everything he had known (AGAIN) just as his world was starting to feel stable… these are people and events that undeniably shaped Armand, if not defined him (at least in his own mind), please, PLEASE do not ignore this. Do not do him dirty and just have him blindly accept Marius’ NON-DEATH and surprise entrance.

I just want to see a realistic reaction. Do not sweep his trauma under the rug, or play it off as something that can be waved away, or that he can easily forgive and forget.

[irisbleufic]

Just want to ask if there is anything physical between Lesmand this season? Kind of bracing for everyone mocking Armand over the theater scene correction

Hi, anon. I've talked about this before, so I won't hesitate to do so again, but with added analysis of Armand's and Lestat's accounts of the theater scene, and added caveats.

I know that Armand/Lestat shippers were hoping there would be something physical between them shown onscreen, in the present day, but that's not the way things have shaken out (at least not in Episodes 1-6; we still don't have Episode 7, although I'd call it highly unlikely with one episode left on the clock). Regarding Lestat's version of the theater scene, I'd point out that it's advisable to resist treating Lestat's narration as somehow more accurate on all fronts. I'd be willing to guess that Lestat's current attitude toward Armand (and you'll see what that is quite soon) may be coloring the way he presents that fragment of the past, and that perhaps we should assume that the theater box situation went somewhere at more of a midpoint, events-wise, between the way Armand presents it and the way Lestat presents it. We've been cautioned so many times against treating Lestat as fundamentally more of a reliable narrator than Louis and Armand. I'm going to keep repeating that caution. There may be like...one thing I can think of where we have third-party corroboration this season that Lestat's version is closer to the truth, but even then, it's only one thing, and we should remain wary of absolutism. The theater box scene is not the one thing that has third party corroboration, either, because Gabriella never speaks up in order to say "yes, that's how it went" or "no, it didn't go like that" (and even if she were to speak up, I have the feeling she'd just back Lestat's current claim of how it went regardless of what actually happened). I've seen people imply that Gabriella being present in the box in Lestat's account and absent from Armand's proves that Lestat is telling the truth; but Lestat could just as easily be lying about Gabriella being there, couldn't he? To claim she was when she wasn't would certainly serve as a kind of shield against the events in Armand's account. What if Armand's account is fractionally closer to the truth, and Lestat can't stand that? Putting a third party in the box would be a surefire way of implying, See, there's no way that this went down the way that Armand said it did, because not only was I not feeling it romantically, but someone else was there. This narrative remains riddled with contradictions. You need to be as comfortable with the unease, the mutability of memory and the things that people will say to shield themselves, in Season 3 as you were in Seasons 1 and 2. Objective truth is tricky to pin down, and Lestat's account is not automatically more correct; make that your mantra.

ETA: I need to clarify something here, because I don’t want to risk any more people (than the one who possibly already has) misreading my meaning here. When I say that there’s nothing physical between Armand and Lestat in S3, I mean that there’s nothing between them in the present day! In the past, their relationship is very much still implied to have actually happened, to the best of my knowledge. The thing I’m highlighting and calling into question here is specifically that theater box scene that we’ve had recounted by both Armand and Lestat at this point. Armand says a hookup happened in that scene; Lestat says one did not. I still assume they were involved with each other in the past, but I’m using this theater box scene as a case study for discussion because I just know that people will say Lestat’s version is automatically the more true of the two. I’m trying to underscore that people who have the impulse to privilege Lestat’s account over Armand’s need to actively question their impulse toward doing that. Armand’s account might still be the more accurate one, or perhaps what happened is more of a midpoint between the two—the hookup might’ve happened before Gabrielle entered the box with the two of them, for example, and Lestat simply shifted the “I love you” from Armand as happening after she arrived. Or maybe Armand did actually say it before she got there, when they hooked up. I’m trying to say that the chance that neither one of them gave a fully accurate account of the theater box scene is more than possible. At no point in this post am I arguing for erasing the hookup in the scene or the fact that they had a relationship in the past. I’m asking people to remember that all of these narrators lie about some things just like all of these narrators also tell the truth about things that you might not want to believe. It can be tricky to tell lies from truth, but if you find yourself believing the white guy more easily than a character of color? Examine your impulses, please!

[cloudabserk]

if these conversations went the way they did in the books

[hollowwaveremnant]

Just once, for no other reason than fulfilling a fan fantasy, I'd like someone to acknowledge Armand's beauty openly on the show. And no, not Daniel. Louis' beauty is constantly remarked upon, and Lestat's sexiness and appeal is in your face all the time. You've got Assad Zaman, one of the most beautiful men on the planet, playing Armand, and nobody can address how alluring he looks?

[professional-rat-eater]

I truly don’t understand how there are people who don’t see anything remotely wrong with the narrative in the fandom that Lestat is inherently more honest than Louis, Claudia and Armand.

Firstly, that’s boring. That’s not a good show. That’s flat and uninteresting. You want the show to be rid of the very thing that made it special in the first place.

Secondly, you really don’t see anything wrong with being so willing to blindly believe the guy who we have actually spent zero time with, over two people we have seen in person and the other whose words we have heard when she thought she was only talking to herself? Before you’ve even watched the new season?

You don’t notice anything different about Lestat from the other three? Anything that might cause you to treat them differently based on biases you may not even consciously be aware that you have? That perhaps are causing you to be more lenient and forgiving when it comes to Lestat? Nothing at all?

Louis lies. Claudia lies. Armand lies. But Lestat also lies, even unconsciously. He’s not automatically a more reliable source. This isn’t the grand reveal that the first two seasons were a waste of time. That’s not what the show is. What an insult that would be to Louis and to Jacob.

There’s this vibe from certain fans that this is where the ‘real’ show begins, that everything before was a facade or was less important. A prelude to the more important show. If you don’t see anything strange about that way of thinking, what it implies, I need you to reflect on yourself. I need you to question why you think the things that you do and why you are inclined to believe or not believe certain things, because it’s about something a whole lot bigger than a show about vampires.

[irisbleufic]

I hope that the racist fans who were making those jokes before haven't already seized on the clip in the teaser and started making those so-called jokes again, but...I'm afraid I already know the answer.

oh it's bad. i've been trying to push back against it and was called a white saviour who's fetishizing people of colour. i was told not to use the word "brown" because it's "dehumanizing" (i guess brown people aren't human now?)

when i pointed out that i am literally brown myself (mixed race and my dad is bengali like assad) so this is personal for me, i was accused of race-faking. i posted a photo of myself with my family to prove i'm not and someone implied i'm overcompensating because i'm whitewashed by having a white parent (my mum isn't even white) and british poc are all self-hating. i've literally been hit with the "calling something racism is racism in itself" with people telling me they can't be racist against armand because they love louis.

i have a private account so these were literally mutuals of mine talking to me like this and making "bobs and vegane" jokes, comparing armand to the stereotype of indian men harassing women online. i've had to block a lot of people i'd previously considered safe. this fandom is not a fun place to be in right now as a brown person. it never was but it's been worse since that clip dropped.

i had a feeling this would happen when we saw lestat's version of events because i've seen how lestat fans (obviously not all of them) talk about assad's armand but my heart is really aching for friends of mine who'd been so happy to see a brown man like themselves portrayed as desirable and powerful on screen but now have to see everyone gleefully tearing him apart as pathetic and unattractive, saying they want to see him humiliated every time he appears.

this fandom has a problem with racism that's been going largely unchecked with any of us who talk about it treated like we're overreacting or just looking to be offended. i've been so excited to watch this season and discuss it with other fans for 2 years and now just over a week before the first episode drops i feel like i don't even want it anymore.

Anon, I'm so, so sorry to hear about what you've been going through, and I hope that it has been cathartic for you to vent about it to someone. I sincerely hope that you have a strong support system and people to whom you can talk about it off anon, too. Thank you for sharing your experiences here. It's tricky enough being a pale/mixed heritage Jewish person in this fandom sometimes, so I cannot fucking imagine how difficult it is for brown, Black, and other fans of color in IWTV right now. The ongoing conversations that I've had over the past couple of years with fellow marginalized friends in this fandom (for reference, the populations they represent are, predominantly, just based on where I was raised and where I've lived over the past couple decdades: American and British Jewish individuals, Black Americans and Black British people, and individuals from British South Asian backgrounds) has, indeed, exposed the pervasive ugliness. I've only in the past six months to a year (out of the two years I've been extremely active in this fandom) started engaging on posts and making posts of my own, though, because it felt a lot safer to keep those conversations restricted to private messages and discord conversations.

I'm so sorry to hear that you've had to block people who you thought were safe. You should never have been in a position where people you trusted turned out to be toxic and refused to take you at your word. You are not overreacting, and you should do whatever it takes to protect yourself. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of this going around; accounts of the treatment that POC have received in this fandom are well documented at this point, and my horror just grows with each account that emerges. The treatment of Assad (and Bally, too; in the past, I've seen some shit on discord servers that makes me mad enough to choke) in particular, by both racist fans and the overall trend of neglect in AMC's marketing, really speaks volumes. This fandom is extremely willing to call out/confront anti-Blackness when it crops up, and I applaud that (because these bigotries/oppressions are not in competition; they are all part of the same problem, and they all need to be addressed). However, the issues it has with racism against South Asian people and anti-Muslim sentiment are not given the same priority when it comes to speaking out with an equal level of fervor. And I wish more people understood that this is a real fucking problem.

[machetemand]

tired: louis, claudia and armand's lies vs. lestat's truth

wired: louis's version vs. claudia's version vs. armand's version vs. lestat's version

[lexdelioncourt]

I mean, I knew we were gonna get here, so I don't know why I'm surprised, but people deciding that Lestat is the objective truth-teller while everyone else is a liar (before the show has ever aired no less) is certainly a choice. I guess we can just completely disregard the first two seasons then, because NOW it's time for the REAL story 🙄

This isn't even me saying that Lestat is lying... that ANYONE in particular is lying. It's just like... has this not always been about people telling THEIR version of events? So why is one automatically assumed to be THEEEE correct one?

No one reads Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and goes "omg Mark is such a big fat fucking liar who lies! But at least we have John to give us the objective truth."

[dracze]

I'm crashing out admittedly but the reactions to the last teaser seem to have been the last straw for me. Cause it's really wild to have a character who's pretty much defined by his otherwordly beauty, who suffered the specific traumas Armand had BECAUSE of his beauty, who literally was a muse to Italian Renaissance artists because of his beauty, whom Marius decided to bring home BECAUSE OF HIS BEAUTY... be treated like... this?

Like ok it's Lestat's POV, sure. But even in book TVL, written by Lestat, he can't help but gush about how gorgeous Armand is. He doesn't shut up about it, ever. It's literally one of THE defining traits of Armand's character, and casting Assad seems to imply that the creators are aware of it.

So... why doesn't anyone in the show ever comment on it? Why is he being treated as unlovable and undesirable? Why is this a trend, and why is fandom jumping on that like it's the gospel truth? (i know why.)

I really hope the show itself is better than that, but making Armand into this pathetic unlovable undesirable butt of a joke is NOT it. And I'd hope book purists who were so ready to tell everyone to read the books to get the full context on Lestat all those years would be similarly concerned. But of course they're not, because the books are only revelant when it comes to defending Lestat. Sigh.

[definitetrashlord]

ok i’m trying not to be someone who’s catastrophizing before the season is even out but a little worried that the running gag is armand is this one-sided obsessor and that the nuance of how lestat also does love armand in a way is being thrown out based on the promo so far and the undermining of loumand in s2. i’m ultimately in for DM but i don’t want these other dynamics flattened.

[userarmand]

!!probable tvl spoilers ahead!!

so take this with a grain of salt (personally i think they're telling the truth about everything though not without possible bias) but according to the people who got screeners, the lesmand flashback scene doesn't go any differently to how it looks in the trailer. like that's the lesmand dynamic in the show. one of them actually mocked people expecting it to be different, but she's a lestat boymom who can barely hide her disdain for armand and his fans so i'm still waiting to see exactly how it plays out. i'm keeping my expectations low to hopefully avoid being too disappointed

all of them have also said lestat makes a "funny" comment to gabi about armand being a bottom/sub which is… something. like obviously we have to wait and see but if it's some bottom-shaming thing the writers can seriously fuck off. they've also said it's clear we're supposed consider lestat's version of events the truth and that they've left behind the unreliable narrator angle which would be such a bad look i'm hoping that's just their lestat bias talking again. even taking louis out of the equation (due to armand's "tinkering"), having only the black and brown characters be liars and fantasists before the big muscled blond blue-eyed white guy comes along to correct the story just looks so, so terrible i really hope they'd be aware enough not to do it

it doesn't matter that lestat is the main character, rolin chose to race swap other characters and it would be really stupid not to take that into account when it comes to how the characters and story are perceived in the real world

if they really have chosen to make it so lestat is completely repulsed/grossed out by armand without finding him at all attractive, and the only reliable voice in the story, then i feel comfortable calling it racism whether conscious or not. choosing to make a canonically desirable character from the books indian and then choosing to make him completely undesirable, evoking the pathetic, sexually unattractive, boring indian male character american TV has been pumping out for decades would be a clearly racist choice

there's a big difference between saying lestat can't ever be intimate with armand because of the blood rape and armand's general deal with manipulation while still finding him very attractive, and saying lestat would never be intimate with him because he's just soooo pathetic and creepy and unappealing haha isn't that funny? let's all laugh at the brown guy being sexually "humiliated"

seeing how much people are reveling in this is leaving a sour taste in my mouth too. i've even seen someone say he must've lied about fucking the coven too because "ain't nobody want him" 🙄

but of course any concerns we have about armand's character or about assad or about racism are painted as bitter armandcels who want him to be the main character and just hate lestat/sam!

"that's the lesmand dynamic in the show"

let's all cross our fingers that this isn't true bc i've said it a thousand times now but fucking up armandstat is the one thing that will get me to quit the show so 😬

[irisbleufic]

should I be worried armand will be written as an undesirable unloveable creepy indian stereotype? because that’s the vibe i’m getting from what they showed us of lesmand in the latest teaser. I never liked the “lestat wouldn’t touch armand with a 10 foot pole” joke from racist fans and from what i’ve heard i’m worried the show is doing it too.

I can't bear the pain that I'm seeing in this ask, so I'm trying to figure out how best to offer you reassurance without tipping into spoiler territory. There are moments this season where the narrative framing does make an effort to highlight that the way Armand is being treated at times is not a positive thing, and that we should feel compassion for him. I hope that the racist fans who were making those jokes before haven't already seized on the clip in the teaser and started making those so-called jokes again, but...I'm afraid I already know the answer.

[cursedsappho]

I keep telling myself I won't crash out over anything until the show isn't fully out because it's just a trailer, whatever, we don't know the context of anything, but I already do find incredibly off putting the possibility of it portraying Armand, THE canonically beautiful character of the books, as undesirable and Lestat, the one full of love for everything and everyone, as only cruel towards him...

Racism on one side and character assassination on the other

[colourfulshadows]

I worry a bit because of that "I love you Lestat" - "Christ" scene, because uhm

Yes of course what we saw in 2x3 was a twisted version of the truth, which Armand imagined, I'm not trying to say that they kissed and were intimate like that and that Lestat confessed his love, but to have Lestat react disgusted like this? In the books, it's canon that Lestat loves Armand too (albeit less/differently than how he loves Louis) but can't be companions with him cause Armand's love would consume him and he doesn't want that/couldn't endure it without losing himself. Only because a companionship doesn't happen, doesn't mean the love isn't there.

I worry that they will make it show canon that Lestat never loved Armand and won't, to center Loustat even more and make it more attractive for show-only fans (don't get me wrong, I love Loustat and I enjoy show-Louis greatly. But the books don't center only on them, there is so much more outside of that particular romance or any romance in fact and I'd hate to see that getting tossed out)

Now, it could be that Lestat just presents it like this because he doesn't want people and especially Louis to *know* that he loves Armand in a way, because of how Claudia died and because he wants to get back together with Louis... I hope that's the case

I just don't want things to feed into the belief some fans seem to hold that Armand just lied about *everything* and doesn't tell the truth *ever* because that's simply not his character

[dracze]

New AO3 account PSA

Soooo I cracked. I went ahead and started a separate AO3 account for IWTV fics. Mostly so that the people who subscribed to my main "dracze" account for batjokes won't suddenly start getting new work notifications which might give them false hope 🥲 I'm so sorry guys those gay vamps have me in a chokehold currently

(also I admit I'm kinda terrified of the IWTV fandom it's A Lot)

Still, it feels AMAZING to be able to write again after years of block and creative burnout

If anyone's curious, this is me: BottomArmandEnjoyer

I've got 6 works up on it so far, including two series:

an omega!Armand romp through show canon, including two loumand stories, one santiagomand dead dove, and one Children of Darkness angstfest

a crossover with the Magnus Archives that's just people coming to the Institute to give statements about the weird vampire shenanigans they witnessed

a single standalone DM fic

More are in the works!