Franchesca: I take a lot of issue with Ray Kelly suggesting we are giving up. We are absolutely not giving up and that is why we are here and that is why we are having this conversation and is why people are protesting.
The first thing that you need to do is listen. So if the community is saying that we are scared and we don’t feel comfortable and we don’t want to call the police, don’t think about your friends who call the police, cause that’s not who we’re talking about. We’re talking about this community and there is a huge amount of not listening happening, just even in the room.
You’re speaking over Kamua Bell. “Well you guys need to do this, you guys are giving up.” Clearly we’re not. And the thing is is that this-the police in some ways it feels like you want us to give up. “Stop talking about it, stop playing the race card, stop being the victim.” We’re being killed. We’re not asking to be the victim. And-and the fact that you would sit there and say that we are giving up… This conversation- *other people speaking over her*
Katie: I think he was referring to Kamau, in fairness.
Franchesca: You might as well’ve said it to me. Cause honestly, you might as well have said it to me. Because-because he’s speaking as a member of this community, and talking about his experience and the fact that he is afraid or feels uncomfortable is not him giving up, it’s him being honest and responding to the situation at hand.
I don’t break the law, I don’t do anything that should cause me to be afraid police, but when a police officer shoots someone in the stairwell of their apartment building, who’s not doing anything, and there are police walking around my apartment building on a regular basis, yes i’m going to be afraid because people are being killed and they’re not doing anything wrong.
So to tell me that i need to change my behavior… I’m not breaking the law. I’m not doing anything wrong. And, at the end of the day if you break the law, then you need to go and go to court and have a chance to sit in front of a jury of your peers, not be shot in the street or choked on a street corner. It-it’s unacceptable. And you should take responsibility as someone who works with the police.
Katie: Latoya, you can have the last word here.
Latoya: Thank you. Well there’s an interesting debate going on on twitter right now, where people are asking, essentially, how should we approach the police. I’d be interested to hear Ray’s response. I’ll try to keep it quick.
Essentially, there’s this idea that the police are better trained than citizens to respond to these situations, to know when to escalate or deescalate and that’s when you have a situation like Tamir Rice. Where someone is going “I think it’s a kid, he probably has a toy gun, can someone come?” and that child ends up dead. Right? So maybe that’s not working.
There are other people who say that the police are going to be adding violence to any situation they arrive on, and to treat the police as a last resort. As something that we don’t call unless we know that we can only fight violence with violence.
Ray, what is the way in which we should figure out how to solve this debate and figure out how do we treat the police force, because we’re getting two very different messages.
Katie: Ray, what’s your reaction to that?
Ray: *laughs* the reaction to?
Katie: Yeah, to-to how should you respond to the police. I-I’m trying to understand the question.
Kamua: How are we supposed to interact with the police in a way that doesn’t end with us murdered?
Katie: That doesn’t escalate into a situation, is that right, Latoya?
Latoya: Definitely. There’s an idea that if you’re bringing police into a situation, period, once you’ve called 911 you’ve escalated it into what could be a violent altercation.
Franchesca: Truthfully it’s a rhetorical question. Because we’ve had situations where people call the police because they or a family member’s hurt or injured, and they end up dead. We had a women in Brooklyn who called about her sister having a schizophrenic episode, called the police, and the police took the sister put her on the bed and she-she died. So that’s why we’re afraid to call the police, okay. So please, enlighten us, Ray. What are we supposed to do so that we can act like good Negros and not get killed?
Ray: Obviously it’s a rhetorical question. The-the-the numbers are infinitesimal where something like that will happen. The vast majority of police -
Franchesca: Have you seen the news? How are you saying that number is infinitesimal?
Ray: earning the wage, a good job (unclear???)
Latoya: It shouldn’t happen at all
Katie: You guys, let him finish please.
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