Hey - sorry, super weird question for Deltarune but...
... why did everyone seem to move on from the rape allegory in Chapter 4's Weird Route?
When it first came out, the scene ended with the Deflowering wilted rose imagery. Yes, that got switched to a big pane of broken glass but - like.
The core concept was still that Kris stuck Noelle with a thorn, which put a little human soul in her, and that little soul gets bigger by the end of the chapter. 🤔
And there have been clues since Chapter 2 about Kris and Noelle being 'married' and needing marriage shoes, but now with Chapter 5, Noelle just straight-up says she thought her and Kris were supposed to be a thing.
I just don't see it discussed in video essays or posts at all.
As far as I can tell the rape allegory seems to be unintended. The
wilting rose, at least to me, was supposed to symbolize Noelle's loss of innocence in the regard of her being a video game character, like the chapter 1 and 2 secret bosses, which is then built on in chapter 5 with her wanting to break out of bounds and cross the lake leading to an early chapter 7. I think the "soul growing" imagery is supposed to show how Noelle is losing her mind via being subsumed by the player soul, not unlike a lovecraftain horror story. I do agree that there is a weird romance happening with the two of them, though I don't really know why as the weird route seems to have mostly dropped the whole forcing traditional rpg norms thing. (at least to me)
Yay, someone actually answered! :D Thank you!!
Agreed with it being unintentional. To me, it's fine if it's unintended, since it doesn't change that the allegory is there. Lots of unintentional stuff ends up conveying a major theme regardless of what the creator thought - sometimes even because the creator didn't realize that's what they'd put in. That's what this feels like!
But this one is particularly interesting, because in Toby's attempt to "remove" the rape allegory, he ended up pointing to its existence more than ever. I can understand the rose being tied to Noelle's innocence in isolation. Maybe changing that to glass breaking, like a panel of the prophecy breaking, works as a direct substitute for her path in life being forced into a new route.
But with the combination of the rose, the marriage shoes, Noelle talking about expecting to be a thing with Kris, Suzie saying she thought Kris and Noelle were a thing, and a scene that pretty much everyone picked up on as 'forcing' Noelle to do something, and that scene resulting in Noelle having another soul put into her and growing...
... removing just the rose image doesn't do away with the full idea. And to try to nudge it into "oh no, it means Noelle's being taken over" - that's a fair and fine new direction in isolation, but it's continuing on in combination with the broader imagery that looks like Noelle was forced to carry a metaphorical baby.
By that, I mean look at Noelle's behaviour in the Chapter 5 Weird Route. She's erratic now. She's spiralling over who she is and what she can do. I could see Toby intending that to mean, "She's losing her grip on reality." But combined with those other points, it just as easily lends itself to, "Yeah, if I was a pregnant teenager, I'd be freaking out from my hormones too. My mom would definitely disown me, so I'd want to run away as well."
I don't know why it dropped the traditional RPG roles concept (which is fine; stories evolved) either, just to double down on the "Kris and Suzie are expected to be together" concept in Chapter 5. That brings it to a point where, even if Toby had the pane of glass break in Chapter 4 the whole time, it wouldn't detract from the greater context it all fits into. :/
It might be too harsh to focus on the part about rape itself, because that buries the lede on what it's getting at. It's more like, "Is the implied thing happening with Kris and Noelle some metaphorical teen pregnancy plot?" But to get to that question, it's like, "Well, how would she have metaphorically gotten pregnant?" And it's because Kris forced her to equip the Thorn Ring. I'm happy to interpret that action as something else, but I don't know what should it be interpreted as instead. 'Loss of innocence' isn't the full answer when it's in combination with the other points. 🤔
... Maybe it's like an arranged marriage, or something...? The thorn ring is can just be taken as a wedding band, and the thorns and forcefulness are about Noelle being locked into her path? That's why she starts referring to herself as a "Noelle who can only do Noelle" things? So forcing the ring on her is forcing her into that marriage, and having the soul in her is like, "Well, you need to have your nuclear family now, don't you?"
I mean, I'd still have personal concerns with vilifying arranged marriage. But I want to figure out what's being vilified or implied first. 🤔
Even the idea of Noelle saying, "Kris and I couldn't decide who to vote as king and queen when we were kids," brings an idea of taking over the Dark World somehow. There's a king and a queen (and the game hints at having two queens 🥰), but more importantly, there's a prince, so having any sort of "royal child" could fit into that somehow. Idk. Like Kris is being used to force Noelle into ruling with them and having an heir. 🤔
Oh, I didn't know about the king and queen thing- and your right it doesn't make sense with the broader points. Hmm I just don't know what to make of the whole situation I guess? like where would this go and how does this fit in narrativly with everything else?
