Mostly Knightfall tinfoiling

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Knightfall Joan of Arc theory summary

In this post I wanted to summarize all my previous theories into one post so it can be more presentable. Yeah, bit ironic I am making this post after series officially went into limbo state, but what can you do.

Jaune's Joan of Arc will be positive subversion of her tragic fate. Previous volumes seemingly reject Jaune's martyrdom and he subverts more successful aspects of Joan's life in favor of repeated failures. He will likely have a happy ending instead to compensate.

Jaune's Joan of Arc will subvert virginity of the original. He has normal romantic interests and is found to be attractive by several female characters. This not only subverts virginity of Joan of Arc, it also subverts the fact her male companions didn't feel any attraction towards her.

Jaune's love interest will likely be character based on Dauphin. While their relationship was platonic, when you remove virginal aspect of Joan of Arc character based on Dauphin makes the most sense. Her male companions don't stick out from each other in any way, while Dauphin was her one and only.

Cinder matches Dauphin the most out of all characters. Both characters were raised in hotel, both had terrible relationship with their mother figure,both were responsible for murder of their oppressor, both were abandoned by their father figure and declared an outlaw after said murder, both were taken in by powerful queen dowager, both were bound to said queen dowager (one through marriage, other through Grimm arm), both claimed the power of divine origin (if you look at title of king through the lens of Medieval Europe), both are missing the crown connected to that power, both are rivaled by younger enemy with rose emblem, both had initial success before continuously losing despite having an advantage, both have deep self worth issues, both are disliked by both their enemies and allies, etc.

Their age gap matches the characters relatively well. Dauphin was 9 years Joan's senior. While Cinder is likely only older than Jaune by 4-5 years, it is still suitable age gap. Joan was more mentally mature than Dauphin, which is reflected with Jaune being middle aged man in the body of a teen after Volume 9.

Connections between Joan of Arc story and Indecisive King. In universe fairy tale that is connected to Relic of Choice has a lot of shared elements with initial portion of Joan of Arc story (peasant woman that had her village destroyed seeks out King, King is burdened by his Crown, through visions of the future peasant woman is able to help the King where his advisors couldn't). Story ends with characters that seem connected to Jaune and Cinder getting married.

Any relationship other than enmity between them would be suitably heretical. Joan's involvement with Dauphin was hated by both enemies and allies alike (mostly Dauphin's advisors). Her enemies tried to discredit her by claiming she committed the heresy when she crowned Dauphin. Any redemption Cinder receives through Jaune would be seen as a heresy from both friends and foes. Act of giving a crown to the king connects this back to Indecisive King story.

Seemingly Cinderella element in the first encounter between Dauphin and Joan. This is connection thread between their respective primary allusions. Joan takes the role of a Prince, being savior figure to Dauphin's Cinderella. To test her abilities, Dauphin masked himself as common servant, despite all that, Joan still recognized him and ended up helping him.

Connection through Pyrrha. In Jaune's Joan of Arc story Pyrrha takes the role of Archangel Michael. Being both model warrior everyone aspires to be as well as taking the role of primary voice guiding Jaune (just like Michael was guiding voice for Joan). Joan and Dauphin were both connected through Michael as he was their patron saint. Pyrrha is negative subversion of that connection since it is through the murder. However, it drives the characters to interact with each other.

Power imbalance. Dauphin was King, Joan was peasant girl. There is a similar power imbalance between Cinder and Jaune, one being Maiden (one of the most powerful beings in the verse) while other is mostly an average Huntsman. Power imbalance is exacerbated by the fact Cinder refuses to acknowledge Jaune in any way and actively mocks him for thinking he can challenge her.

Massive plot implications. Encounter between Dauphin and Joan turned the tide of Hundred Years' War. Jaune's pairing should have similarly large impact on the world and Cinder's redemption fits that bill.

Timeline theory with summary

Main tags: Jaune as Joan of Arc and Cinder as Dauphin

Those were the main points I wanted to add here. Feel free to comment if you feel like I missed something or you have your own interpretations.

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I saw a Reddit post about RWBY ethnicities, and while I disagreed with it, I found it interesting enough to throw my hat in the ring.

I will try to factor in as much as possible about characters, although I will prioritize origins of names over allusions if necessary, since one is in-universe while the other is out-of-universe.

I will only go over RWBY members in this one.

If you have your own suggestions, feel free to throw them in.

RUBY ROSE:

Both her parents have very little information about them.

Summer Rose has both an English first and last name, and her primary allusion is Irish poem.

Taiyang Xiao Long is Chinese name.

Ruby as a Red Riding Hood, and Dorothy is French/German and American, respectively. But due to the widespread status of Red Riding Hood as a fairy tale, I think we can somewhat ignore this part (or give Summer some German or French ancestry)

So for Ruby, I would go with either:

half Chinese, half anglicized Irish

half Chinese, quarter Irish, quarter English

WEISS SCHNEE:

So we know a lot about Weiss' family compared to Ruby's.

Let's start with her father, who has both a French first and last name, but his allusion to Jack Frost could imply some English ancestry (Jack Frost as a character is more of a Germanic thing). So Jacques is either full French or half French, half English.

Now for Willow. Her last name is German, but her first name is English, and her allusion is Danish. In fact, both Winter and Whitley have a Danish allusion (all three being allusions to Andersen's fairy tales). Winter has a name that can be both English and German, but Whitley has an English name.

To zoom out a bit, we have Nicholas Schnee. I've seen people label him as just German, which doesn't make sense. Nicholas is an English form of the name; if it were German, it would have been Niklas, Nikolas, Klaus, etc. Santa Claus as a character has a lot of background, but the version they are primarily alluding to is the modern American interpretation of the character, not Nicholas of Smyrna or Father Christmas. But he does have a German last name, so I would suggest a German father, English mother for Nicholas. His having English ancestry would explain why his daughter has an English name. To explain Andersen allusions running in the family, let's say Nicholas' wife was Danish, or Danish-German, to add a bit more German ancestry, since Weiss has a German allusion.

so for Weiss:

half French, quarter German, eighth English, and Danish

half French, quarter Danish, eighth English, and German

quarter French, quarter German, three eighths English, eighth Danish

quarter French, quarter Danish, three eighths English, eighth German

BLAKE BELLADONNA:

Blake has an Italian last name and an English first name. Her allusion is French, although the show also uses the elements from Disney's cartoon version, notably the existence of Gaston.

Her parents both have Indian first names (Ghira is shortened from Bagheera) and, like most White Fang characters, are allusions to The Jungle Book. We can presume Belladonna was Ghira's last name. So he might have had an Italian father and an Indian mother. Kali could be made English-Indian, both to explain Blake's name, allusion to Disney's Beauty and the Beast, and Kipling allusions, since Kipling was an English writer.

I don't think we should factor in Menagerie as a setting, since, as far as I understood, Faunus are not from Menagerie; they were simply booted there as a "reward."

so for Blake:

half Indian, quarter Italian, quarter English

YANG XIAO LONG:

So we already concluded Tai is Chinese.

Now, for Raven, there are a lot of varied influences. Her first name is English; she has allusions to Odin's raven, so Germanic, and a concept of Rabenmutter in German (neglectful parent), her last name is Welsh. But also worth noting, she is one of the biggest weebs in all of RWBY, so there is a potential Japanese heritage as well.

To cover all that, let's make her English-Welsh from her father's side, and German-Japanese from her mother's side. Or maybe just Japanese from her mother's side (to explain why she is so attached to it design-wise), and let the English heritage do the heavy lifting for all the Germanic influences.

so for Yang:

half Chinese, quarter Japanese, eighth English and Welsh

half Chinese, eighth Japanese, German, English and Welsh

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One of the things that annoys me the most about writing around Adam is how inconsistently competent this guy is.

He fluctuates between a formidable threat and a revolutionary, to a li bro who took over your game session while you were in the bathroom.

How is nerfed Adam from Volume 6 a bigger threat than him at the peak of his power in Volume 5?

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The Boys finale oddly brought back the age-old "Cinder is all Maiden powers, she is weak without them" narrative.

Need I remind people that she was at worst, fighting evenly against Neo in Volume 6, with no weapons, Maiden powers or Grimm hand. And said Neo was overpowering Ruby in V8, at times fighting against both Ruby and Blake.

Like come on people, comparing her fighting prowess to Homelander is beyond slander.

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I occasionally check Reddit's AI at the bottom of Knightfall subreddit.

It offers some insight about Jaune and Cinder's encounters, some fanfic recommendations, and fanart. Usually very basic stuff and it gives me an occasional chuckle.

I saw it offer some Jaune and Cinder quotes, and for Cinder, it was normal stuff she actually said. But for Jaune, clanker listed quotes like:

"God's job is to forgive, mine is to send them to them."

"If the Brothers had wanted her to live, they would not have invented me."

Reddit's AI is straight up overdosing on "Jaune OP harem protagonist" fics, to the point it's hallucinating them as canon.

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Reddit milestone doodle.

Either Jaune lost another bet, or it's genderbent Knightfall

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I want to know more about your theories

Thanks for the ask anon.

I presume you are thinking of Knightfall-related theories. Because if it's about things I yap in general, we'd be here all day.

So I mostly stick to two styles of theories:

One is Reverse Ozlem (which isn't mine, but I agree with it), where most major relationships in some answer Salem's and Ozma's failed relationship. In this case, Cinder and Jaune are another Salem and Ozma, but with their stories going in reverse. Cinder starts as a Grimm villainess, and Jaune starts as a fraud, and they start by hating each other, which is Ozlem's endpoint (there is also a significant visual parallel between their first meeting, and Ozlem's last). The goal is to take the story in reverse, going from lovers->enemies to enemies->lovers. It's an answer to the central conflict, showing reconciliation was always possible, despite the strong animosity between them.

Second is Joan of Arc Knightfall. I think there are enough parallels between Jaune and Joan, and Cinder and Charles VII/Dauphin for me to consider it a viable allusion. Cinder takes the role of the despised and doomed king, who is then saved by the unlikeliest individual. Jaune doing something seemingly so wild and out of character would also play into the heretic motif Joan of Arc had. I have a summary post for this one, to spare you some yapping.

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you know what are your thoughts on winter knight (winter x jaune) given the whole Joan of arc also being a military leader and calling herself the maiden. and how Monty was a fan of asoiaf ( jon snow ( jon sounds like jaune and schnee meaning snow) and how Joan of arcs father is named Jacques so you can turn it into father in law ( jon snow even had a love interest who had hair like fire who died via arrow)

Thanks for the ask.

To me Winterknigth falls into a similar category as Whiteknight, where I just find them kinda meh.

You go from a tsundere dynamic of Whiteknight, to more of a kuudere of Winterknight. I get it, it's a strict and serious military woman with a goofball like Jaune. But to me, I never got why specifically Jaune, since you can recreate said dynamic with many other characters. I ironically prefer CinWin, if we are just talking about Winter ships.

Those are some interesting parallels. Although, most would also apply to Whiteknight (John Snow, Jacques) and I feel Weiss being basically a princess (and angel) works better here overall.

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An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works

Chapters: 1/1 Fandom: RWBY Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Relationships: Jaune Arc/Cinder Fall, Oscar Pine/Ruby Rose, Cinder Fall & Oscar Pine Characters: Jaune Arc, Cinder Fall, Ruby Rose (RWBY), Oscar Pine Additional Tags: Post-Canon, Cinder and Oscar teaming up, They are both polar opposites and kinda similar, dressing up, Jaune and Ruby like power rangers, Fluff, Established Relationship Summary:

Cinder's home-alone day is interrupted by an unlikely visitor, who for some reason needs her advice.

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Weiss’ tastes in men favor mature, reliable, and protective individuals with grounded personalities stuff she saw in her grandfather who wore armor that is similar to what jaune wears ( and old jaune resembled her gramps appearance ( look up nicholas schnee

Having a shitty father who is none of those things will do that to you. Classic case of Schnee daddy issues.

On the topic of Jaune and Nicholas, they are both based on saints; Joan of Arc and Saint Nicholas, respectively.

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What Brother Gods are doing in their spare time.

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When Cinder was stuck in the darkness after losing to Raven, the thing that saved her was the silver light showing an exit.

Something, something, Ruby uses silver eyes on Cinder, saving her life.

Bonus points for Cinder looking very Ruby-like here.

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An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works

Chapters: 9/15 Fandom: RWBY Rating: Mature Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Relationships: Jaune Arc/Cinder Fall Characters: Jaune Arc, Cinder Fall, Nora Valkyrie, Lie Ren, Emerald Sustrai, Mercury Black, Neptune Vasilias, Sun Wukong (RWBY), Weiss Schnee, Blake Belladonna, Yang Xiao Long, Ruby Rose (RWBY) Additional Tags: RWBY au, Urban Fantasy, College, Nightclub, Vampires, Half-Vampires, Mild Gore Summary:

Jaune Arc had a fumble of century. But his trip to nightclub only created more problems after having an unforgettable encounter with mysterious lady which he was suppose to forget.

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In case of Jaune x Cinder, who's who?

Jaune is the idiot

Cinder is the idiot

Both are idiots

Neither are idiots, "built different" clause

Voting ended onMay 21

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Prodigal son

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Who do you think is the worst in hand-to-hand combat during the Beacon arc? This is assuming no Semblance use.

Yang is immediately out, since that's her bread and butter.

Ren knows kung-fu, so no.

Pyrrha did catch Cinder off guard with grappling, so it can't be her.

Nora and Blake don't really fight hand-to-hand, but it's hard for me to imagine them being bad at it considering their background.

So between Jaune, Ruby and Weiss.

Jaune sucks at fighting in general, but has loads of Aura. Ruby is weaker than the average White Fang grunt when unarmed, and her best pre-training feat is beating up Auraless Oscar. And Weiss is Weiss, no Aura, no PvP wins.

It's basically a stoppable force vs a movable object with these three.

Who is the worst at it?

Jaune

Ruby

Weiss

Voting ended onMay 19