who even knows

I dont know.

[filmfliiicks]

hey just wondering if you have any fic recs in the same veins as your fic ideas?

i’m obsessed with shane being written as an actual character and not “ilya’s love interest who is selfish and a pushover” because he deserves better

hello! ☺️

My two recent favs sort of in the vein of my fic ideas have been all the dishes intact (a Shane character study) and What Makes a Letter (Shane grappling with not being captain anymore post tlg)

here is the link to my bookmarks on ao3 as well if you’d like a look>>> https://archiveofourown.org/users/Ttnprince/bookmarks

I love angst, so there is a lot of that, and ones where Shane is hurt in some way and Ilya protects/defends etc because I find them cathartic after reading tlg!

Hope you find something you enjoy! ✨

[filmfliiicks]

Lovely Anon - this wip fic as well, it’s angry deliciousness after the Boxing Day fight. I’m obsessed with it!

An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works

[filmfliiicks]

a line that really gets me in TLG is when Shane says something like no wonder Ilya resents me and like ok wow the angst implications for that are massive.

because that’s such a horrible headspace to be in, thinking your partner hates you and even worse being like yeah, I can understand why he hates me.

[halflesbianhalfanger]

I can just never get behind the fact that the narrative of tlg is set up to be hollanov learning how to communicate in a long term relationship because in the last third of the book post outing, they have one serious conversation (the one about Ilya's depression which is a great scene that I love, but is distinctly the only proper conversation they have with each other after getting outed)

Like idk, when Ilya's only reaction to Shane being ostracised by his team, slammed by the media, losing pay and leadership positions in his career, and having only 4 of his friends show up to his wedding, is only jokes, sex, and one sentence platitudes? it doesn't seem to me like they're communicating super effectively.

[kalinara]

I do feel like some folks really don't understand the difference between Doylistic and Watsonian criticism.

I mentioned before, I don't hate TLG. I enjoyed most of it. Admittedly, a lot of my enjoyment comes from things that aren't said outright but I think we were supposed to interpret based on narrative clues.

I'm pretty confident in my interpretation, and it's why I'm optimistic about season 2, though I acknowledge that in the end, the only interpretation there that will count is Jacob Tierney's. I hope he sees it the same way I do, but who knows?

I've mentioned that I do sympathize with the frustration of many fans that feel like Shane's ending isn't purely happy or given the weight in the narrative that they feel it deserves. I tend to agree with that. I like the ending, but I definitely think it's a bittersweet ending.

What I get boggled by are the posts that argue with this by saying "Well, clearly Shane is happy/fine with it!" "He's let go of all the baggage weighing him down!" "It's a happy ending because Shane thinks it's a happy ending!"

...yeah, that's the fucking problem. Canon Shane does seem to be happy with the ending. And I personally don't necessarily mind that, in the end, Shane does focus more on the happier parts of his ending than the sadder parts (i.e. he now gets to play the sport he loves with the man he loves on a team that actually accepts him.)

But the fact that he had to give up the team that he's loved and worked with for a fucking decade SHOULD be acknowledged and SHOULD matter. The fact that he's been to his teammates' weddings, held their children and they decided, all but Hayden and JJ, not to show up to his wedding? That fucking matters!

We see, throughout the book, Shane being very focused on his performance, pushing himself through a diet that clearly makes him miserable and isolates him (whether or not you see it as an eating disorder), we see him swallow down his resentment of his coach's homophobia (whether or not we think the team itself was bad, Theriault, on page, makes homophobic speeches to a Captain he knows is gay). These are things that Shane endured so that he could keep playing with the team that he hoped to retire with. And now it's all over.

That SHOULD fucking matter.

If we look at the end of Heated Rivalry, THAT should have been a happy ending for Ilya, right? His dad is dead. He's made the decision to pursue Canadian citizenship. He and Shane are romantically together and made plans for the future. But TLG shows us that it's more complicated than that. So why is it shocking that Shane's fans want a similar acknowledgment for Shane?

"Shane ends the book happy and the fans who want him to crash out are going against canon" is not the defense of the book that you think it is. It's WHY people are upset about the book. Because there are readers of this book who've been in situations like Shane's, know people who have been in situations like Shane's, or just really empathize with the situation that Shane is in. And they (we) feel like Shane deserves to have his sacrifices and his losses acknowledged, and he deserves to FEEL something beyond a blindly happy ending when he's lost so much of what he's worked for or wanted.

[mr-raindrop-13]

Thinking about how Ilya’s career achievements are tied to his personal narrative while Shane’s just … are. Like, there’s nothing wrong with either of these approaches but using one for each lead only feeds into the inherent bias the book has towards Ilya.

Ilya losing rookie of the year is tied to angst about going home, going out early at the olympics is tied to angst about being home, and therefore his cup win that year feels like a victorious and deserved comeback after that failure. Doing badly with the cens is part of his sacrifice for love and a factor of his depression.

Then with Shane, winning rookie of the year gets made into a moment of him being unaware of Ilya’s struggles, a good amount of the fandom don’t even know if he won gold or silver medal, and his back to back cup wins are glossed over, as is his third one.

It is only natural then, that Ilya arrives at his happy ending alongside arriving at a good place in his career. He can be out and his mental health is doing better while his team becomes competitive and he gets to play with his husband. The audience is meant to feel happy for him for both, and meant to feel like his hockey achievements are deserved and earned because they come with his development as a character.

Shane on the other hand arrives at this ending through being professionally humiliated. He loses his reputation, his team’s respect, and he’s basically forced to move from the team he created a dynasty with and take a big pay cut. But because the romantic plot takes precedence over hockey, Shane’s career being so narratively disconnected from his personal life means this isn’t addressed or treated as the serious loss it is.

Instead, the simultaneous professional success of Ilya and failure of Shane is wrapped in the same ending. And ultimately the audience is meant to view this as happy without taking time for what Shane has lost, because the book is only set up to create empathy and connection with Ilya’s career.

[lesbianroselandry]

shane and jj rating the racist shit they hear on the ice. 6/10 okay that genuinely pissed me off. 1/10 yelling a slur takes no creativity no effort no pizzazz. booooo boring!!! 8/10 i broke a finger on your face for that one so i guess i have to give you points but also points off for being fucking evil. 4/10 okay i had to go to wikipedia for this one man, i actually didnt know that was a slur that existed??? damn

[lesbianroselandry]

comeau says something really stupid and really White™ at post-game drinks or whatever and jj makes direct eye contact with shane, then pulls out his phone and sends him this image (he edited it himself. he's been waiting for this moment)

and shane has to hold in laughter so hard that he actually has to excuse himself and leave the room for a minute. jj is SO proud of himself.

[halflesbianhalfanger]

all i want are shane hollander & zane boodram friendship centric fics, and there are only like 18 even tagged w their dynamic on ao3

[bluegrasshole]

haha so cute the centaurs have a video of ilya and shane — let me stop you there. shane would never. he would never! he has an airtight agreement with the marketing and comms team that anything posted of him is strictly professional. he knows every comment on social media will be about him and ilya already, and he will NOT be encouraging it. he is a hockey player. my shane would rather die than discuss his married life on instagram on the official centaurs account. or any platform. are the other centaurs doing this?? the other hockey teams??? no. he is an athlete not a reality star.

[filmfliiicks]

Imagine if a disgruntled long suffering assistant of Crowells loses it one day, and releases thousands of incriminating emails, recordings and files on the internet, damning not only Crowell, but the NHL.

There is countless proof that Kent’s crimes were brushed under the carpet, potentially causing a nearing trail to be postponed. There is a player in Minnesota with a spiralling drug addiction and no support from upper management. Emails detailing how Ilya confronted Crowell to defend Troy go viral - mainly due to a strong but loud group of rpfers who have shipped them since Troy joined the Centaurs.

Video footage of Shane’s meeting with Crowell and being subtly threatened to stay in the closet are shown as evidence of the NHL’s insidious treatment of Shane as a gay POC.

But it’s also fantasied about by Ilya/Shane enthusiasts. Because if Ilya defended his best friend openly against Crowell, can you only imagine how he reacted when he heard about what he did to Shane?!

Ilya is crushingly ashamed because he resented him, while Shane wonders quietly if he’s not worth protecting.

[hermywolf]

still baffles me the sheer amount of people who thought shane coming out to ilya as gay was him telling ilya he's attracted to men(???) instead of him coming out as not bisexual / not attracted to women. especially since their last like three conversations before that were just ilya going so are you bisexual or gay are you bisexual do you like women what are your thoughts on women are you into rose landry do you like her do you like women

[fritterlitter]

Ok but for my wish fulfillment once the pure chaos of Shane signing with the Cens and everything around that Harris takes a minute to sit down with Shane like he does for every new player and talk about how social media generally goes on the team and to ask what Shane is comfortable with, things to avoid, things to focus on, and Harris asks

“What do you want people to think of when they hear ‘Shane Hollander’”

And Shane has had so fucking much happen and he’s tired and in a moment of unpolished honesty he replies

“Hockey. I’ve only ever wanted people to know my hockey”

And Harris can suddenly see how worn down he is and afterwards kinda sits with how quickly nothing about Shane’s life was private anymore. So he sets aside all his cute ‘hockey husband’ and ‘get to know the real Hollander’ ideas he’d been kicking around and brainstorms something Shane might like better.

The next time they do content during a practice day they’re doing those tiny mic interviews asking questions so fans can “meet” their first line and it cuts between all of them for each question but whenever Shane’s turn comes up it just cuts to him playing good hockey. Like

>“What’s your favorite way to relax?”

“Trying a new recipe!”

“Sitting by the fire with my husband and my dog :)”

“A good book!”

*Shane getting a crazy wide shot under control and whipping around to pass the puck precisely where it needs to be*

“I’ve been getting really into sound bath meditation videos YouTube lately”

>”What are you looking forward to this year?”

“Well with the energy we’ve had in practice, I’d say I’m looking forward to winning some games!”

“Taylor Swifts new album”

“Stanley Cup win. And that’s a promise”

“My wife and I’s five year anniversary”

*Shane pulls off a lightning quick feint and sinks the puck in the goal so fast anyone who blinked missed it*

Like maybe Shane doesn’t want to be “hockey robot” all the time but he’d like people to remember at the end of the day he’s Shane Fucking Hollander

[findafight]

So many people misinterpreting Hayden and Ilya's relationship as though Hayden isn't the funniest person to wind up. As though in order to do that you don't have to have an underlying affection for him. Ilya says Hayden is the 15th best metro not because it's true but because it's not. Just like Shane's backhand isn't weak and he isn't a fast skater. Hayden has been Shane's wing for years, in addition to being his best friend. He is obviously very good at hockey. Hayden just falls for the trap every time.

The jokes Ilya makes about Hayden's million kids is because Ilya 1) loves those kids and 2) also want kids of his own. Hayden is in the position of shovel talk giving best friend, who is so so SO annoyed to actually like his bff's new boyfriend. They are in-laws who pretend not to get along but are ride or die for each other. Their bickering is a bit. It's their love language. How is this hard to understand when Shane and Ilya bicker all the time and Shane takes the piss out of Hayden as well.

[lesbianroselandry]

the fandom likes to act like ilya is an unproblematic woke king from day one, but i do think like. rookie year ilya struggles with it actually. how much he's supposed to care vs how much he can just ignore. he's caught up in all his own issues and he's in a new country speaking a new language and there's a lot of upheaval in his life. what's his priority? fitting in with the crowd or voicing his own thoughts, when that's already something he doesn't do because his family situation has trained him well in keeping his cards close to his chest?

like i just feel like. in the early years, people would def try to ingratiate themselves to him and bond with him by talking shit about shane, and some of them would be racist about it. and i think early years ilya might not push back on that as hard as he could. bc he's trying to play apolitical and he thinks he's overall not supposed to care. except it does feel really nasty to ignore that kind of thing and then go on to text shane about wanting to fuck him. and he's been friends with svetlana his whole life and he knows she'd kill the guys in the locker room that joke about montreal picking hollander as a diversity hire or worse, if she could. and just because keeping his head down or laughing along is the easy track, the thing he's used to doing when his father talks and he's expected to nod along, doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do, or what he wants to do.

but like. missing scene of an early situationship era hollanov fight, where ilya feels really guilty for not shutting some gross shit in the locker room down before a mtl-bos game and ends up apologizing to shane like im sorry. they said this about you and i told them to fuck off but they didn't stop and i ignored them instead of fighting more and i feel bad. i should've stood up for you more. and shane is really quiet for a minute and then just goes i don't want your fucking white guilt, rozanov.

they do not fuck this night.

and ilya just has to sit with that. like, he'd throw hands for sveta, he has thrown hands for her before, but he's in a new place with a new language full of new people and he's like. is it worth it? bc he's depressed and not admitting that and he's being a cocky party boy and just like. trying to figure out who he is in america on his own for the first time. and i think after shane gets pissed at him and leaves here, he's like okay. okay. whoever i am here has to be someone who cares, actually, because this feels really gross. i feel really gross. i think sveta would yell at me and be really genuinely upset with me if i told her about this interaction and that feels bad. i have to do better.

and he does! he does genuinely start to make an effort. he reaches out to shane to genuinely apologize for fumbling it that hard (a rare thing for him to do). he starts paying more attention and tells his teammates off when he can. he makes a real effort to actually listen to shane the few times shane ever opens up about being a poc in majority white spaces (this takes years) (and even then shane barely tells him anything other than that he's maybe sometimes frustrated, until the cottage.) (getting shane to talk to anyone other than like yuna and jj about race stuff is like pulling teeth. he's very jaded. he's automatically defensive after years and years of racism. he has to learn how to open up and trust ilya with this part of himself. it's a process.)

but like god what i wouldn't give to see stories where they actually work through the realities of being in an interracial relationship in a very white space. i want to see ilya putting in the work to actually be someone shane can be safe with in this way. not a white knight and not a white savior but like just being a good partner who is actually aware of what shane's life is like. and shane getting to relax those high, high walls of defensiveness and learning to trust ilya in this very emotionally vulnerable way. I Would Like To See It.

[deathoftheaudience]

Cannot stop thinking about how the rushed ending of TLG means that romance genre conventions traps shane into being happy :) while everything he ever feared came true in the worst way possible WITHOUT DEALING WITH ANY OF IT.

You're being tarred and feathered in the media for tripping in a hockey game and your teammates who you thought of as brothers believe your did it on purpose. You're so happy to go see your partner play with your family :) Your friends of almost ten years don't come to your wedding. Ten years of long away games and deep playoff runs. Ten years of being their captain and their friend. Ten years and they don't come to your fucking wedding. You're so happy to be marrying your partner :) You're run out of the city you lived in for your entire adult life and the team you dreamed of retiring on. The team with your three stanley cup banners, the team where you should have gotten to see your number raised to the rafters. You're so happy to get to sign with your husband's team :) You're worried if any team will sign you at all (3 cups. 3 CUPS. 3 FUCKING CUPS). You cannot be paid what you're worth because there is no cap space for it. Never mind that you might be taking a hammer to every step you paved for children like you (Why would you be worth that much? Just look at what they pay Shane Hollander) You're so happy to be playing with your husband :) You are not even given an A to offset the low salary. Shane fucking Hollander, 3 times Stanley cup winner, Conne smythe winner and Olympic medalist without a letter in a team that made its first playoff the season before. You're happy you're happy you're happy-

[halflesbianhalfanger]

thinking abt Hollanov on No Straight Answers with Zoe Boyd

[halflesbianhalfanger]

It's so interesting to me that the posts about tlg I see with the most actual quotes and screenshots from the text are the ones that are critical of it. Like it makes a lot of sense to me in a way. When I first read tlg I read it super quickly just so that I'd be able to better understand the fics I wanted to read and kinda clocked that the ending was super rushed and wierd but just moved on and didn't engage with it massively because I was reading a lot of hc's and fics that rationalised it in my head. Then after reading a couple tlg critical posts on here earlier this month seeing all of the quotes and screen shots led to me going back to the actual text and realising a lot of what I had come to love "about the text" was actually fanon or fic. Like as someone whos now quite firmly Not a Fan of the book (especially the ending) my main issue is that its so so rushed and so much of what I'd be really interested in just isn't featured on the page. Like yes the move to Ottawa could be very fulfilling for Shane IF it's entirely his choice, and he has the space to actually have a reaction to losing relationships that he massively valued for 10 years, but we actually have no idea how he feels other than a line or two about being angry after trip gate and then uncomplicated happiness after he signs with Ottawa. Like this would be a maaasssive change in his life with many smaller changes and struggles within it and it's given next to no space to be discussed on the page. Idk basically my point is just when you extrapolate the ending to high hell it can be a good ending that makes sense in-universe, but as it is on-page? it is wildly unfulfilling and gives no space to emotional resolution.

[lesbianroselandry]

fascinating to me that people are still caught up in arguing over rr's discord and other extraneous commentary to decide if she ~truly~ thinks shane is selfish for not wanting to come out, when you can like. Read The Books She Wrote.

not one but TWO out of six books in this series deal with couples where one party wants to come out and the other doesn't. in both cases, the partner who doesn't want to come out is demonized as keeping the other trapped in the closet (kip literally verbatim says he feels like scott is pushing him back into the closet) and being ashamed of the relationship or too scared of repercussions to come out. in both cases, the narrative ends with extremely public coming out/outing storylines that are both spun as ultimately happy endings with no regrets. in both cases, it is portrayed such that being Out And Proud(TM) is the correct, most healthy way to live, and the only way to be in a real romantic relationship.

you literally don't need to read a single thing she's said as extraneous commentary to see her views on closeted people. it's right there blatantly in the text. she does not have any respect for closeted queer people whatsoever.

[cluelessascanbe]

I will say that in print interviews, aka the most official setting for her to express herself, this is what she has to say.

So yes, Shane is selfish according to RR.

Did she ever say it’s because he doesn’t want to come out specifically? No, but what other conclusion are readers supposed to reach here? The conflict between Shane and Ilya is that one wants to be out and one doesn’t. Shane is selfish because he doesn’t want what Ilya wants which is to come out. I don’t need her to say it because there is absolutely no other conclusion.

Shane is too focused on his career and diet and doesn’t want to come out and needs to learn that there is no higher priority than his man. Hell of a hero’s journey, what can I say?