Deltarune is a game hand crafted by a mad genius to encourage theorizing. One of the overarching themes is that after any level of lore drop, you have just enough information to build a compelling argument, but not enough to drive it home and exactly enough contrary information to doubt your own theory. Ask literally every single Kris-Knight diehard how they felt at the end of chapter 3.
So I asked myself: How would one go about figuring out anything? The answer I came up with was to plant a flag solidly in one point of view, as best supported by the themes of the source material, and use that point of view to closely examine all of the information we have.
And after playing chapter 4, there is one thing that is remarkably clear. Deltarune is not a game about a prophecy playing out. Deltarune is a game about a prophecy with gaps, about blank pages to be filled, and about the people who are trying to fill those pages with their own words.
The "winners" of Deltarune, character-wise, are not going to be the people who are fortold to win by some ancient dork with a pen and a massive ego, it's going to be the people with the courage to impose their will on the story.
Deltarune is a struggle between various parties trying to work between the rigid framework of an unshifting prophecy to reach the end they want to create.
So to be clear about any theory I post: The Knight is not breaking the prophecy. Kris is not breaking the prophecy. Susie is not breaking the prophecy. The SOUL is not breaking the prophecy. NO ONE is breaking the prophecy.
It's not that the prophecy has accounted for all of these variables, it's more that the prophecy has gaps. Large gaps. Gaps in detail, gaps in missing events and connections. And those gaps can be filled with anything so long as the prophecy that exists is still true.
The most obvious example of this is the prophecy of The Girl. Is it Susie? Is it Noelle? Dess? Carol? This question has been ping-ponging around theory circles since chapters 3 and 4 came out. But "Who is The Girl?" is not the right question. There is no answer within the prophecy for who The Girl is. That is left to interpretation. That is left to whoever happens to be in the right place, at the right time, doing the right things to fit into the domino chain of the prophecy.
So if you are aware of the prophecy, you can position your pieces to place your own candidates. This is true of The Girl, of the Cage, and even The Lonely Prince. It's true of The Queen, The King, and The Pointy-Headed. It's true of The Flower Man, The Angel, The Lord of Screens and The Knight. None of these are names. They are roles to be played, with the actors often yet to be chosen.
Even the pictures we see in the Dark World are interpretations. Those don't exist in the Light World. During Catty's, er..."reading", she explicitly says as much. And when we use the shadow crystal in a room with a prophecy panel, it says that the WORDS do not change. And while I don't know for sure, I suspect the pictures disappear along with the rest of the Dark World.
Anyway, that's the basis for how I view how Deltarune works. People are far too focused on the parts of the prophecy that match what we've already seen, and are thus trying to find a deterministic single answer to the parts that we haven't, rather than seeing the open spaces as opportunities that the characters within the world are also able to exploit.
I'm gonna expand on a lot more detail about a lot bigger questions within Deltarune with my own theories, but I wanted to put this post here first so I can point back to it as my overarching guiding light through the darkness. The question I return to whenever I'm stuck trying to figure something out.
But I guess I can give you a little tidbit to tide you over while I write the rest up. For example, who is The Knight?
I know I've been kinda quiet, but tbh all I could think to make was a Gaster post, and the furthest I ever got on it was the equivalent of Spongebob spending an hour writing the word "The" in really fancy font. I just genuinely don't know where it's going.
But, with Chapter 5 looming, I guess I should summarize my thoughts and theories, only slightly tainted by a few screenshots. (I've avoided the trailer mostly)
—I still believe AsrielKnight.
I know this isn't popular, because I know people see it as some kind of depowering of Dess as a character, or relegating her to a damsel in distress role. To clarify something on that front: I do not at all think that she's going to be relegated to a damsel, and if she is I'd be just as upset as everyone else. I just don't think that her role is going to manifest as The Knight, but rather as...something else. With how the roles are nebulous and up in the air under my theories, I don't know what exactly that would be, but I genuinely believe she's going to make her impact on her own, not as a villain with a motivation no one can seem to fathom.
And honestly that's my main sticking point with the DessKnight thing, why no one has been able to fully convince me. I keeps seeing people say that it would be the only "Narratively satisfying" identity for the Knight, but the overwhelming majority of people also seem to have no idea whatsoever why Dess would be doing this. I can't work through that dissonance on the topic. The motivation of a character is one of if not THE most important aspect of their narrative. The WHY of it. Without barely a hint of the shape of that motivation, saying that the narrative would be satisfying, much less the only possible satisfying outcome, simply doesn't make sense to me.
—The Narrative Is Going To Go Way Further Than We Expect.
The pacing of Deltarune has shot past both classical versions of a Final Boss Fight by the halfway point. (And yes, Chapter 1 is short enough that I think the end of Chapter 4 could be considered part of the first half). Toby's giving us this line about it being "one more fun adventure," but if he's trying to convince us that it's gonna be as filler-adjacent as Tenna's games, I'd like to point out that that chapter ended with Tenna almost dying and the supposed main antagonist of the game showing up to kick our teeth in and kidnap someone.
I think Ralsei is going to be trying to push Susie into making this adventure fun, and I think Susie is gonna try to go along with it, but I doubt we'll get more than a few hours into gameplay before that entire vision crumbles and the main story shows up again to completely rocket us beyond all reason and into unknown territory.
I dunno where we're gonna be at the end of this chapter, but it's not going to be anywhere close to the status quo.
—The Weird Route Ends (But Doesn't END.)
I think the various times I've mentioned the Weird Route 'ending', I've given the wrong impression. I don't think the save file is going to be in some kind of softlocked state, I just think that the routes are going to converge over a single event (probably The Roaring), which will push the story forward across chapters 6 and 7 in more or less the same way with only SOME differences, much like Chapter 3 is only slightly changed based on your route. The only difference is going to be the path that we take to get there, and the state of some of the characters once we are.
The fact is, I'm really, really curious about what's going to happen. Toby's got me unable to even really guess at WHEN plot beats might happen, and what the rest of the game is gonna look like. I've said it before and say it again, I could be wrong about anything, or everything! I'm super interested in finding out!
asgore is the biggest victim of sunk cost fallacy. he is the most stubborn person alive he will kill himself to stick with a decision. when you guilt him enough in undertale and tell him you dont want to fight repeatedly instead of stopping he just lets you kill him faster. he would rather die than step back from a disgusting decision he made. anyways im really excited for chapter five of deltarune certainly he hasnt trapped himself in his own asylum he made for himself
Toriel has family photos and wonderful memories with her kids on the fridge. Asgore has a single photo of his wedding.
Last chapter ended on Toriel on a date with another man. Certainly the chapter with the fields of pink and gold wont be about a stubborn man trapped in asylum scorching them to the ground out of jealousy.
On the topic of Asgore, there's also this aspect of like...he's obviously being gaslit so hard?
Like WE know the Dark Worlds are real and that there's some magical BS that's genuinely threatening the town. And ASGORE knows that, too. But literally no one else does, and it seems like the only person who DOES believe him is Carol. And Carol seems to be actively manipulating him into a role in the prophecy, by offering him asylum in town through financial help, while encouraging his "investigation" into the Dark World stuff despite knowing way more than he does and thus making the divide between him and Toriel way worse.
He still sucks though. It still seems that he was directly involved in—or even partially or largely responsible for—Dess's disappearance. He's trying to prove the Dark Worlds are real to justify whatever action he took that resulted in losing her. And that's some hot garbage because I'm willing to bet that whatever he did was a knee-jerk reaction with only a bit of information that resulted in his best friend's kid going missing.
And if that feels too dark, keep in mind that in Undertale Asgore either personally murdered six children or put a bounty out on their heads despite the fact that he only ever needed one human SOUL.
I’m just glad you decided to complete twin runes cause there’s a lot of au’s that don’t get finished (growth spurt) so for that I’m thankful you finished feint runes and good luck to you
It honestly has nothing to do with "deciding" to finish something like a comic.
It's a ton of work. And the people who make them aren't necessarily professionals. They're fans. Just like any of us. Normal people.
And people face issues like... losing interest for example. Getting into other franchises. Or having to focus their energy on other projects for work. Or maybe they got sick and need to take care of their health. You can never know the reason behind it. But I assure you, it is NEVER an easy decision!
I absolutely get that it is frustrating when your favorite series is quietly abandoned. I've been there! But I implore you to think of the people behind these projects.
Adding to this, as someone with a bit of personal experience in writing...
Finishing stuff is *hard*. It's relatively easy (RELATIVELY.) to keep plot threads open, but actually closing them, tying them up, is terrifying. It's far and away the easiest thing to mess up when it comes to writing, and it requires probably the most effort (writing wise. Drawing art is a whole different monster, and might change the calculus a bit.)
It's why one of the pieces of writing advice I hand out to people is.....finish something. Doesn't have to be your biggest work ever, nor do you have to cut your favorite in-progress story short. Just, pick something in your area of interest and write something short. Word-cap it. Do that a few times. That's experience right there. It's practice. And it also exposes you to the unexpected dopamine rush of having a finished project in your hands.
Also if you have somehow found my little theory blog and not Akanemnon, go read their stuff. It's really cute and their art is fantastic and also I think they're gonna traumatize with whatever their next project is so that'll be fun!
It's not even that HE'S being held at gunpoint, it's that TORIEL is being held at gunpoint.
Imagine someone told you that if you didn't get three kids to play some games your mom was gonna die, and then when you get increasingly desperate and dig deeper into your self-esteem issues to try to guilt them into playing more, everyone calls you a manipulative abuser.
And one of those kids IS THE PERSON TELLING YOU THIS and for some reason they don't know what their own favorite food is anymore and are acting like they don't know how important it is that they keep playing.
SURPRISE! You've been japed! You thought this was going to be The Gaster Post, and so did I! But I realized that I never talked about the final panel of the prophecy here, and where better than as a followup to a post about how malleable the roles presented to us are?
Ralsei, through some mechanism we don't know quite yet, is extremely familiar with the prophecy. And on top of that, he's a very firm believer, to his own detriment, that the prophecy is something that is cast in hard stone. That veneer is starting to break as Susie shines hope into his life, but he is still viewing it as a prophecy that needs to be changed, rather than added to, or interpreted.
Kris likely holds the same view of the prophecy. When we use the shadow crystal in a room with a prophecy panel, we're told, "For some strange reason, no matter how you look…The prophecy's text does not warp in the crystal's lens."
Keep in mind that while we can tell Kris to take actions, the specifics of that action are often under Kris's control, such as turning a doorknob but not pulling the door open, or closing their eyes as they peek through it. 'No matter how you look,' in this context, means that it's Kris moving the crystal, tilting it, rotating it, moving to different angles, trying to see the prophecy change. They WANT it to change, but they, like Ralsei, think that the words are the hard restriction.
Neither Kris nor Ralsei see their interpretations as their own. They see them as the way the prophecy, and thus the future, necessarily IS. They have made their assumptions, or perhaps been lead to believe someone else's (Carol's?) assumptions or assertions, and it will be hard to shake either of them from that path.
Interpretations are infectious. Answers are infectious. Questions are unsettling. We, as humans, want them answered. This isn't a bad thing, at all! It's the driving force of curiosity and discovery. But there's a distinction here between wanting an answer to a question, and wanting the answer. A false answer can be just as if not more satisfying than the truth.
Imagine knowing next to nothing about Mathematics for a second, and don't be self-deprecating about it. You come across the question, "What is six times nine?" You don't understand what this means, so you look into it. Someone very confidently informs you that the answer is '12.' When you ask why, they inform you that ANY two single digit numbers multiplied together equals 12.
That's an INCREDIBLY cool answer. It's a rule of thumb that's easy to follow, and it answers dozens of other questions! Seven times eight? 12. One times five? 12. Four times Four? 12!
You and I know, as people with a basic idea of what multiplication is, that this simply isn't true. But as someone who knows literally nothing about math, this answer becomes ingrained in you. It's simple, compelling, memorable, widely useful. It wraps up so many things in a nice, tidy bow.
This is the position Kris and Ralsei find themselves in. And what's more, it's the position Susie finds herself in as well. If, say, Carol told Susie directly what the prophecy meant, she'd blow it off completely.
But instead, she's been told by someone she cares about that she's a hero, and she started believing it despite her protestations. She's tied this prophecy to her friendships and her self-worth and now, when the end of it is finally revealed to her, she sees it all crashing down around her. She can't just blow it off anymore, because without this prophecy tying them together, she's terrified that her friends won't be her friends anymore.
So to Susie, the prophecy must be true, but at the same time, it must be changed. Her "12" went from finding a purpose in her life, to...well, that's what this is about!
You're Rambling, What's the Last Panel!?
Hey! Understanding the point of view of the people involved is important here!
All we have for the context of the last panel is Susie and Ralsei's reactions, and we can feed those reactions through their personalities to get some kind of answer.
Ralsei has known this part of the prophecy all along, and he's cheerfully gone along with it right up until this point. He's devastated when Susie reads it, but at first, it's only because it reveals something to her. Afterwards, he's terrified of what he sees as his ultimate fate, but only because Susie has spent the last two chapters refusing Ralsei's self-deprecation and all but FORCING him to value his own life.
Susie is absolutely furious when she sees this prophecy panel. She's causes herself physical pain, and entirely changes the resolve of her life moving forward. It's not about having fun and being a hero anymore, it's about denying the ending of the prophecy, at all costs.
I've seen a lot of theorizing about this, and for some reason so, so, SO many people seem to think this all means that "The Girl" must sacrifice herself, or be sacrificed, or something like that. Because, and I'm quoting someone I've talked to about this, "Why else would Susie be so angry?"
I don't know what chapters that person and those who echo that sentiment played, but that is such an absolute inverse to my read on Susie that it genuinely left me speechless at the time. Susie dying would be the least likely outcome to draw that visceral of a reaction out of her.
And Ralsei's reaction to this is also telling. Not just the breakdown, but before that.
* Susie...
* ... she's...
* She's a really really nice person, Kris.
* How can she be so kind...?
How would Susie raging against her own demise be 'kind'?
The final panel is simple, and I know I'm not the only one to say this (unlike my Knight theory ;D), but it can ONLY be the sacrifice of the Darkners, in particular the Prince.
Ralsei spends the entirety of Chapter 3 literally preparing Susie, and Kris to a lesser extent, for his own death, and the breaking off of friendships with all the Darkners. If Susie were also going to die as part of the prophecy, Ralsei trying to convince her that they're friends but not REAL friends, that this is all temporary, and she should go find some lightners to hang out with would be absolutely insane.
This even explains Kris's attitude towards Ralsei. Kris would know the prophecy, so they would resist getting close to Ralsei early on. They would force themself to see him as a pawn to be used to fulfill this prophecy, someone who is GOING to disappear. They would keep themself at a distance, even as they're slowly drawn closer through Susie.
All three of them are under the thrall of the prophecy. Slaves to its whims. Hoping against hope that they will somehow be able to change its words and rewrite the future.
.....Except
Except we know that isn't how the prophecy works.
We don't get to see that last panel. Breaking the fourth wall here a bit, it's Toby Fox absolutely theory-baiting us. That entire previous section, examining the motivations and personalities and actions of the characters to construct what the prophecy says? That's the bait.
The conclusion we reached above is not what the last panel says, it's what the party would interpret the last panel to represent. Aided probably by the picture generated by the Third Sanctuary's Dark World creator, whether that be conscious or subconscious.
In a meta sense, if we got to see that last panel, we would get to see the loopholes. We would get to interpret it our own way. We would be able to see the path to the future that Susie wants, even if she can't.
And frankly, I think that would be kind of frustrating! So I'm really thankful for Susie punching that window, to keep that particular mystery alive just a little longer.
And also, alt reveal! Not that the alt will mean much to anyone here.
I'm going to be streaming Deltarune! Tonight I'm just doing Chapter 1, and it'll mostly be a stream to dust things off, test out my setup, get back into the groove of streaming and such. However, I won't have any alerts, as I'll ALSO be recording the game footage in hopes of using it in a later project!
So TONIGHT, Tuesday, October 12th, as I post this, I'll be going live on a soft launch, and if things go well then TOMORROW, Wednesday, October 13th at 6:00 PM EDT I'll go live again with Chapter 2 in a much more formal sense.
So please! Join me here during either stream if you want to hang out, help me balance audio levels, chat DR gameplay, or theories, anything!
After I posted my full on AzzyKnight theory in the previous part (admittedly rambling, but I'd done all the setup earlier!) someone asked a few excellent questions that seemed like pretty good jumping off points for further all-out parts of the theory, as they expand on major ideas I've brought up across all my theories.
In this particular post, I'm gonna be touching on this one!
Whats your take on the rotating Roles outside of Susie and Noelle as “The Girl”?
This is a pretty excellent question, actually, and has some fascinating answers.
As a tl;dr for the relevant first part of this theory, I hold that The Prophecy does not have within it dedicated people who are destined to play each part in it, but that there are roles that can be filled by whoever is convenient for the prophecy when it comes about, and with enough planning it's possible to position different people to take up those roles when the prophecy plays out.
For starters, I'll list all of the roles that we've seen so far in the prophecy, then I'll get into each role in turn.
The Cage
The Girl
The Prince
The Pointy-Headed
The Queen
The Lord of Screens
The Flower Man
The Knight
The Angel (?)
Jockington (???)
....Look the prophecy is weird, okay?
THE FIRST HERO. THE CAGE, WITH HUMAN SOUL AND PARTS!
The assumption here is, of course, Kris. And honestly, the only other candidate out there is The Vessel from the prologue of the game. However, I would like to point out something fascinating about this point that no one else seems to really consider.
The automatic go-to here is that Kris is the cage, and that they're caging the SOUL. The anon asker of this question, however, brings up an alternative:
"...but I feel like the Role reverses in the Weird Route where the SOUL Cages Kris in a figurative sense"
That's also in some ways true, but there's yet another unorthodox question. Are we sure—REALLY sure—that the cage is meant to be an internal one? That is, is it possible that the cage is meant to, or can, contain something OTHER than either the SOUL or the body in a metaphysical sense? Is it possible that Kris still HAS their original human SOUL, but that it cannot close dark fountains for whatever reason, and thus Kris IS the cage and that cage IS for us, and we just haven't been able or allowed to see Kris's own SOUL?
Honestly, there's a lot here I don't even know how to start answering. It's just a hunch~.
Editing Jadders: Hey. Hey guys. I've been busy and so I've been held up doing my cute little sprite scenes for this one (sorry about the delay, work is rewarding but mentally taxing), but I woke up at 5am and this part of the prophecy came into my head and...
Can we talk for a sec about how the image related to The Cage is of two hands with sharp pointed fingers circled around a heart shape? ...Is that...is it possible that that could represent the Thorn Ring? Based on what happens in the Weird Route? Is this a thing or is this my sleepy brain hallucinating again?
Geesh...I'm gonna have to do a whole post about the Thorn Ring at some point, huh?
THE SECOND HERO. THE GIRL, WITH HOPE CROSSED ON HER HEART.
This one I already discussed. The girl, with hope crossed on her heart. This definitely fits Susie, as despite everything she's gone through she still holds out hope that she and her friends can and will live happily together.
It definitely fits Noelle, as based on the Spamton Sweepstakes information it seems she never gave up looking for Dess.
It could fit Dess, too. Either right now because she's lost in the darkness between worlds, but still hopes for escape and speaks to the scratches, or in the past with her hopes for various things, from her relationship with Azzy to her little sister Noelle to her rebellion against her mother.
It could even be Carol, for similar reasons to Noelle.
There are a few hitches with this one, though. The minor one I've seen is that having 'hope crossed on [one's] heart' might not be a good thing. It could mean being hopeless: as in, the hope is literally crossed out.
The major one is the thing a lot of people have in fact pointed out. That's from a different part of the prophecy...
AND LAST, WAS THE GIRL.
AT LAST, WAS THE GIRL.
People have been using this line to suggest the existence of a completely different girl within the prophecy, with the same title. Or they'll say that the hero title is the entire thing ("The girl with hope crossed on her heart") and because this doesn't include the hope part it's referring to someone else.
The hero intro lines are presented to us in the natural course of the level as The Prince => The Cage => These two lines => The Girl, as if these are the lead-ups to the girl's introduction. Many people have pointed out that it doesn't really make sense to order the heroes that way (3, 1, 2), so the panels are likely out of order. I think this makes total sense, and is one of the keys we're given to signal that the order we see these panels are often not indicative of when they appear in the legend itself
Those same people, however, also put these lines at the end of the heroes' introductions. As in, they try to arrange it thusly:
The first hero. The cage, with human soul and parts.
The second hero. The girl, with hope crossed on her heart.
The third hero. The prince, alone in deepest dark.
And last, was the girl. At last, was the girl.
Love finds its way to the girl.
Or something like that. I think the faulty assumption here is that the 'last' part belongs anywhere near the introductions. I honestly think it comes much closer to the END of the prophecy, myself. In fact, they may not even be in the same section as each other.
I also pointedly think we're missing large swaths of the prophecy. Correction...I KNOW we're missing large swaths of the prophecy, but I think we're missing large swaths of what the characters within Deltarune have written down in books. We are getting at best bits and pieces of bits and pieces.
The best we can hope to do is match up rhyming schemes and syllable counts to put things within vague proximity to each other, like the three hero introductions.
I think this line is separate from the introductions, and because of that I think it's referring to a different point of time in the prophecy, in a section that we have no other lines from. Because of that, I'm still committed to both references to 'The Girl' being references to the same character, or the same title, or the same part to be played.
THE THIRD HERO. THE PRINCE, ALONE IN DEEPEST DARK.
The Prince is a fascinating one. The anon ask hits on the first obvious alternate to Ralsei:
"Ralsei not being the Prince but rather Lancer, Son of the King from Ch1 who was described as lonely from the start and been in the team since?"
I mean yeah, Lancer is a prince, alone, in deepest dark. Fits to a T.
But that's not the only one. The prophecy for The Flower Man shows something that looks like Asgore wearing a crown. If it considers the Asgore character to be royalty (I don't think there's any avoiding his part in the prophecy as lead on by Carol at this point, though it may not be what's the most obvious right now), then there's ANOTHER prince. The son of the (Flower) King (and Queen?), Asriel.
Even if you don't believe AzzyKnight itself, Asriel would be an incredible fit for The Prince. Nowhere do we see that the Prince NEEDS to be a Darkner. Even Ralsei's interpretation of the prophecy only calls the role "A Prince from the Dark". I've thought Asriel could fit THAT role since chapter 2.
Also hey, maybe Dess will turn out to be transmasc. I kinda doubt it, but if we're just talking possibilities, who's more alone in deepest dark than Dess right now? Particularly the Deepest part.
THE POINTY-HEADED WILL SAY "TOOTHPASTE," AND THEN "BOY."
This is one of those WEIRD ones. People call it specific, but it kinda...goes out of its way to be more general? It doesn't say "The pointy-headed will say Toothpaste Boy," it says "Toothpaste," and then "Boy."
The fact that this was was written SO NEBULOUSLY that we don't actually know if those words come one after another or if there's a gap between them, or what tone they're said in, it all just goes to show how much interpretation can be, should be, and almost definitely IS a huge factor in how the prophecy plays out.
Obviously, the assumption is Lancer here. But like...isn't it a LITTLE crazy that it could feasibly apply to Susie? She ALSO says Toothpaste Boy, several times. Including once at the end of this chapter. And while her head doesn't look as pointy as Lancer's, she's got quite a bit of hair sticking out in points, she's got that snout which could absolutely count, and those teeth......
THE QUEEN'S CHARIOT CANNOT BE STOPPED.
Assumption: Queen. It tracks, and though people say "AHA BUT YOU SEE IT DOES STOP!" it only stops when Queen specifically wants it to. Even the traffic jam, we literally see it plow through a couple dozen of cars immediately before this (unless you were going for a true 100% recruit run and dodged all the cars to get probably like...five lines of dialogue). We can't stop it ourselves, and it looks like nothing actually can stop it except the owner, Queen herself.
As for other candidates, though? Carol's a good one. Ice Queen, and all that. Who knows what kind of chariot she could have, but I'll bet she'll be on a float in a parade during the carnival or something.
Toriel's also a possibility, though if her chariot were her car I'd say that was thoroughly stopped against her will, so there'd need to be something else that'd come up later.
THE LORD OF SCREENS CLEAVED RED BY BLADE.
Tenna, obviously.
Though I think Spamton could have potentially fit this role if things had played out differently.
Also, the really funny pick for this one, Berdly IS a gamer. I'm just throwing that one out there.
THE FLOWER MAN, TRAPPED IN ASYLUM.
This one I do actually think people are misinterpreting.
The general consensus here is that The Flower Man is Asgore. But the picture that goes along with that line ALSO includes the flower. It also puts a crown on Asgore's head, making the 'man' moniker a bit odd, as 'king' or the like would be better.
It does fit with my interpretation of Asgore's place here, though. He's literally trapped in his flower shop, which he doesn't want to run, by Carol's shielding of him, monetarily. Actually given asylum, but stuck there.
However I'm very, very confident that the MAIN interpretation of this line is going to be the flower's darkner. Probably the golden one. All of the previous Chapter Boss lines seem to very strongly indicate darkners, and I think that pattern will hold. The flowers that Asgore is keeping in the back room are trapped under cloches, which is helping keep them alive in an unfamiliar habitat. Again: Quite literally trapped in asylum. At worst, it's an extremely apt parallel between the two.
THE KNIGHT WHICH MAKES WITH BLACKENED KNIFE.
SHALL DUEL WITH HEROES STRIFE BY STRIFE.
Though these two are separate panels, the rhyming scheme suggests they're either right next to each other as presented to us, or separated by a line. If there's nothing between them, as is the most likely outcome, then there is one very, very funny alternative.
See the base interpretation is that this is meant to be The Roaring Knight. That does make sense, though Anon noted:
"The Legend (As far as I can tell) doesn’t label the Knight as the Roaring Knight. Could the Role of Knight be filled elsewhere? Azzy being the Roaring Knight but not the Prophesied Knight?"
There could be something to that, but in general the alternatives seem fairly restrictive. It seems to be JUST The Knight, until you consider that the only thing we know about The Knight in what we've gotten is that they 'duel' the heroes 'strife by strife', suggesting multiple times. So it'd have to be someone we fight more than—
..........So I haveth a Laser Pointere.
THE ANGEL, BANISHED, WILL FINALLY MEET WITH ITS DESIRE.
The Angel is a pretty big question mark. I've seen a lot of people suggest that it will be Noelle, potentially, and that her desire to meet with Dess will be met if she gets 'banished' to the same place Dess is. Or that she'll become the Angel in the course of the story, or something like that.
There's also something to the idea that Carol could be considered The Angel in this scenario based on the interpretation in this theory, where she's sort of...hovering above everything, directing things to her own ends.
However, at the end of Chapter 4, we get one little important detail. Specifically, the voice from the Darkness come back, and says...
WELL DONE.
THE HALFWAY MARK HAS BEEN ATTAINED.
BUT IT IS STILL WAITING.
HOW MUCH LONGER NOW...?
MY
DELTARUNE.
THEIR Deltarune.
I think, whatever's going on, it's this person (who we're going to call Gaster), is absolutely trying to achieve SOMEthing. And if anyone's banished, it really seems to be that voice. So I think it's very possible that this prophecy is highlighting Gaster himself.
I won't get too much into it here, since one of the other questions the same Anon asked was about Gaster, and so I'll be doing a whole post about him later on.
JOCKINGTON GROWS THE BEARD.
This one's actually hilarious, and it's even MORE hilarious how many people are taking it at face value.
Not that it doesn't exist! Just that it's not giving the information people think it is. I know I'm not the first person to point this particular bit out, but Jockington in that panel is designed vaguely as The Cool S.
That suggests that this particular image was drawn into one of the books of the Legend. The words were probably even written there.
So while some people have been highlighting this as eventual proof that the prophecy is real and will happen and is specific to this situation, etc. etc., I'd like to point out the implication that someone doodling on one of the pages makes the line just as valid as any other part of the prophecy.
Quite literally, someone filled in a blank. They found a blank space, wrote their own thing, and when the dark world was created it was treated with just as much gravitas as the ancient lines.
So, again, it swings back to the overall theme of the series. That the prophecy has gaps. That it's malleable. That even if you can't erase what's there, you can add something new.
And that's about all I've got for the roles, I think!
Honestly, I'm not sure which one I'm doing next. It'll either be examining just how open the prophecy actually is, or....well, potentially stuff about Gaster. I did cover a lot of the openness of the prophecy here, particularly with the 'toothpaste boy' section, so it'll depend on just how much I can think to write about it.
When I say "keep theorizing," this is what I mean.
The idea that something I create could inspire someone else to create something as well is among the highest of honors to me. Even blog posts like this. Even if I'm just inspiring them to be inspired by something else.
I dunno what it's like for other people when they create art of some kind, but for me, one of the best things about it is how that art affects other people. How it makes them feel. And when people make something in response to a thing I make, even if it's a denouncement, or a disagreement, or the smallest comment saying apparently the least, or even just clicking a thumbs up button, I get to know that what I said meant something to that person. Even just a little.
Let yourself be inspired. Let that inspiration form, and grow, and escape out into the world to inspire others. Let the conversation continue. Let the cacophony crescendo and add your voice to it, and know that even if you can't always hear it from where you are, there is a place at just the right distance, from just the right angle, where all the voices come together into a beautiful harmony.
… You know, I’ve been making theories and speculation about the Knight’s motivations and Kris’ motivations for helping them under the assumption that, while everything else about their motives is still obscure, we can be certain that the Knight is trying to cause the Roaring.
And… like, this is certainly a reasonable assumption to make considering, like, that they are called the Roaring Knight, and their general M.O. is to create Dark Fountains and that they literally opened enough Fountains to create an honest-to-goodness Titan…
But… If they’re really working alongside Kris, what would that mean of this moment from Chapter 2?
Kris, of their own free will, directed Susie to the library, where the Knight’s newest Dark Fountain is. If they’re really working together, Kris must’ve known about it, right? And they must’ve known that they’re basically leading Susie and the Player to a new Dark Fountain that they’re gonna seal, right?
There are other scenes that rise similar... suspicions. I mean, one also has to wonder if they actually didn't have their keys in Chapter 4.
Still, with that there’s no real proof one way or the other.
Then there's this whole thing at the end of Chapter 2 with the slashed-tires-induced-sleepover... but that was a plan with rather a lot of moving parts… it’s possible Susie being around was considered a reasonable risk in exchange to making it more likely Toriel will sleep in the living room rather than in her locked bedroom and thus make it easier for the Knight to kidnap her?
But the scene at the start of Chapter 2 still feels very unambiguous. Kris is the one who reminded Susie to go to the library, where the newest Dark Fountain is, directly setting in place the opportunity for it getting sealed.
Did… the Knight and/or Mysterious Phone of Probably Carol not inform them of where the next Fountain is gonna pop up that time? Feels like that would be a pretty big mess-up on her part? Were they just that determined to be a good Wingperson for Susie/Noelle they were like “yeah whatever the Knight can always make another Dark Fountain later, right? It’s nbd?”
Because... If the Fun Gang sealing the Dark Fountains is All According to Plan for Kris and the Knight and the Mysterious Phone of Probably Carol then… what is their goal?
One idea I considered is the concept that while Kris is secretly working alongside the Mysterious Phone of Probably Carol, these two are not actually actively working with the Knight, but are trying to stop them.
Like, maybe the Knight is Dess and she is trying to cause the Roaring. Carol, with Kris’ help, is trying both to protect her from being harmed (hence why Kris generally holds back when fighting against the Knight) but also prevent her from harming the other townsfolk with her Dark Fountains and the Roaring (hence why Kris keeps the SOUL, the only thing that can seal Dark Fountains, and why they try to direct Susie towards Dark Worlds at every opportunity).
There’s the question of “If Kris and Carol’s motives generally coincide with the motives of the rest of the Fun Gang; seal Fountains and stop the Knight, why would they keep it a secret?”, but considering Carol is… well, Carol, it’s possible her plans also include some morally ambiguous moves that Ralsei and Susie are likely to disapprove of.
It’s also possible Kris feels they need to protect Dess/the Knight from the SOUL as well, and they’re mostly trying to hide the details of their plans from us. Or maybe, their initial ambivalence towards Ralsei...
…was born of fear and distrust, maybe they felt they had to keep the plan a secret in case Ralsei does turn out to be someone they need to protect Dess from. And Susie was caught up in it cause they couldn’t count on her keeping that sort of secret from Ralsei… or maybe it’s an order from Carol, related to her dislike of Susie.
The main complication with that sort of theory is the whole Chapter 3 Toriel and Undyne Kidnapping Scheme I mentioned above. Like, if Kris wasn’t opening a Dark World and luring Toriel and Undyne into it as part of the Knight’s scheme to kidnap them then… what exactly happened there? Especially considering the ending confirmed that Kris knows the password to what seems like the Knight’s hideaway.
I considered ideas like Carol and Kris planning on kidnapping these two for their own goals only for the Knight to hijack their plans, or they were trying to lure out the Knight using the incapacitated Toriel and the confused Undyne as bait, that Carol (or another accomplice of Kris) took Undyne from the Knight’s clutches and that’s who Susie was chasing to the Shelter…
But while none of these ideas can be totally disproven at the moment, they all raise their own set of complications and unanswered questions. Plus there is the matter that the Knight themself seems to understand that Kris is ‘on their side’ on some level. Enough to react to their ‘signals’ and to hold back when attacking them specifically.
I guess Kris could be like a triple agent, the Knight thinks of Kris as their Agent who is 'infiltrating' the Delta Warriors, but they're actually working for the Ominous Phone Voice of Probably Carol behind both sides' back...
All in all, it is an intriguing idea to consider… but right now it’s far too complicated to explain and it seems rather improbable.
So it does still seem likely that the Knight and Kris are actively working together, and thus that Kris leading Susie into Dark Worlds is just as much part of the Knight’s plan as opening Dark Fountains and the kidnapping of Undyne… but what would be the Knight’s motives for opening enough Dark Fountains to create a Fucking Titan but also to get the Fun Gang in position to seal them?
Are the Dark Worlds for them purely a distraction, the way TV World was meant to be a distraction while they kidnapped Toriel? What distraction did they need in Chapter 2? Were they doing something in the Light World while everyone was busy at the library?
Is their goal to get the Heroes to seal as many Dark Fountains as possible? Is it because their LV (their Dark World Level, not their Light World LOVE) seem to increase with each Chapter and each Dark Fountain they seal? Are they trying to make the Three Heroes and/or the SOUL… become stronger?
Are they trying to summon the Titans just so they can be Slain? Is that why the Knight carries a Weapon that is Super Effective against Dark-Elemental Beings?
Is the whole goal of Team Knight to make the Prophecy play out as exactly as possible? And therefore it necessitate both the existence of a Knight to open certain prophecized Dark Worlds and Heroes who are close enough on their heels to battle them repeatedly?
That would make some amount sense with Kris’ moral conflict at the end of Chapter 4, torn between Susie’s desire to prevent the ‘Ultimate Tragedy’ from occurring and a promise to help carry out the Prophecy exactly as it was written.
And from a narrative perspective, it would make sense to make the central antagonist for this story about predestination and lack of choices, starring a group of three friends who are all trying to assess their own identity and their free will on some level…
… To be someone operating entirely on the side of inevitable fate.
Maybe they’re doing this for their own fatalistic idea of the greater good. The Prophecy ends with both Worlds being safe and everyone living happily ever after except the Heroes probably, so maybe they figure that the only way to ensure the safety and balance of the Worlds is by enacting the Prophecy to its end.
In order for the worlds to be saved, they must be endangered first.
There’s also this hidden part of the Prophecy…
If one assume the ‘Angel’ is the Player (which is a common theory currently, I think), maybe they’re doing all of this because they believe playing through the Prophecy’s ‘script’ is the only way to banish us from Kris’ SOUL?
…Although in that case, it would be weird for the Ominous Phone Voice of Probably Carol to leverage Kris’ loyalty based on a ‘promise’ rather than, like, ‘hey, this is for your own good, you want that Thing out of your body permanently, right?’
But the Angel and the Angel’s Heaven are not just banished, apparently banishing it allows the Angel to 'meet its ‘desire'. So maybe this is done for the Angel’s own sake? With the Angel being seen as a positive object of worship in the Delta Rune religion, maybe the Knight want to banish the Angel and give it its 'true desire' out of a sense of religious devotion?
Hmmmm... that would make some amount of sense if we assume Carol is the mastermind behind Team Knight considering the character with the heaviest amount of Angel-theming is her own daughter.
Like, Queen is supposed to be a mirror of Carol after all, right? Maybe Carol has her own morally-questionable plan to make Noelle unleash her fullest potential and make her truly happy?
Or maybe Dess could also be the Angel, and ‘banishing’ her is some sort of way to put her Soul to rest and help her move on?
I’ve been posting a lot about Deltarune theories, specifically Asriel’s role in all of this(to sum up the other posts, I believe there are multiple mystery callers throughout chapter 4, with the last one at the end reminding Kris of their promise being Asriel), and came to the realization I’ve never really explained what I think the plan even is for the stuff with the Knight. At least, not in detail.
The people behind the Knight (Carol, Kris, Asriel, and likely Asgore as well) are attempting to bring Dess back, I’ve stated that much. Whatever happened to her, she is dead and gone, and became the Roaring Knight in the Dark World. The conspirators are using the prophecy to get things to go their way, while keeping entirely within the bounds of the prophecy.
Gerson came back in the Dark World, but Ralsei is clear that’s due to very particular circumstances that he came back the way he did. This would imply there is a wrong way to do it. That’s how Dess became the Knight. She came back very wrong, and isn’t fully in control of herself. It’s why the Knight seems to shed a tear at the start of the fight in chapter 3.
The prophecy states that something is going to happen that’s very bad. We don’t know the full details, but Susie and Ralsei do. It can also be assumed everyone working with the Knight knows as well, so Kris knows too. Meaning we, the SOUL, are the only ones in the dark. I believe that the prophecy says that the SOUL, Caged in Human Parts, will die.
But Kris is not the cage. They are a cage. The SOUL created a vessel, and instead found itself inside Kris. And it’s implied this is all part of the plan the conspirators are pulling due to the call in the kitchen at Noelle’s house. There is now an empty, soulless vessel somewhere. And I believe that is the entire plot. The SOUL is destined to die. Kris isn’t. Kris will be fine, their own soul likely held by one of the conspirators someplace safe. This leaves an empty vessel for Dess to inhabit when this whole thing is over. Basic it’s the opposite of Undertale, where Chara died and Asriel got their soul for a brief period of time. Now it’s a monster soul, usually too fragile to exist without a body, implanted into a cage of human parts.
By inserting Kris into the prophecy by making them the Cage, the conspirators don’t meddle with fate, the world stays saved at the end of the day, and they get Dess back. The only person to die was fated to do so anyway, they actually get a net gain this way. It’s why Kris is told to never go into the Dark World without their borrowed SOUL, because they either stand a chance to become like Dess, or become her vessel if found to be empty.
There are of course, other variables. Maybe the Prophecy says that all the heroes perish. Meaning that the conspirators are fine with Susie(the new kid in town who no one cares about), and Ralsei(who isn’t even “real.”) being sacrificed to bring back Dess. This would help shine a light on why Kris is seemingly become more and more uncomfortable with this whole plan by the end of chapter 4. They’ve really come to care for Susie and Ralsei, and were pressured into this plan to begin with, bound by a promise to see it to the end.
(Inserting this here because I don’t see myself making an entire other post about it, but bonus points if the prophecy is just about the SOUL, but the prophecy is vague enough that it uses something like “the SOUL will depart from this world” or something. Because, as a player, we will depart that world at the end. We will set the game down when it’s finished. Everyone in-universe would take it to mean death, of course.)
Hi! I binge read your AzzyKnight posts and it sparked a couple of questions that I wanted to prod you with!
1) Whats your take on the rotating Roles outside of Susie and Noelle as “The Girl”?
Kris being The Cage fits in the sense of literally being a Cage for the SOUL, but I feel like the Role reverses in the Weird Route where the SOUL Cages Kris in a figurative sense. Beyond that, could there be more Roles that can be swapped out? The Legend (As far as I can tell) doesn’t label the Knight as the Roaring Knight. Could the Role of Knight be filled elsewhere? Azzy being the Roaring Knight but not the Prophesied Knight? Ralsei not being the Prince but rather Lancer, Son of the King from Ch1 who was described as lonely from the start and been in the team since? The Queen being Carol and playing off her occupation as Mayor and her resolve to enact Her Will being the Chariot?
2) What do you feel like would be the most Satisfying resolution to the Roaring Knight’s identity?
Azzy being the Roaring Knight makes absolute sense and has blown me out of being a DesKnight Stand, but it rubs me weirdly. What it feels like is something that makes sense but relies on execution to work. Maybe thats just me, but it does have me curious how you envision that reveal, how the pieces fall into place
3) How Loose do you think can The Legend be?
It gets specific words like Toothpaste Boy, but its v e r y broad with the Roles Cage and Girl. It feels closer to call Kris a Vessel, or even a Warden. Cage feels intentionally loose. Girl you’ve already proven is adjustable. Heck, Tenna was fated to be cleaved but the Legend is indifferent towards whether he pulls through or not. Your posts have very clearly stated your viewpoints on your interpretation, and maybe I missed your thoughts on how open it’s meant to be in the first post, but I’m curious if you think its meant to vary on how literal it should be, or if its strict 1:1
4 and Final, I swear!) How do you think Gaster plays into all of this?
Ralsei talked about the Darkworld more and how it comes to be in the dark. The phrasing was similar to Gaster’s “Dark, Darker, Yet Darker,” thing. Not to mention entry 17’s words mirroring a tweet that, at least to me, comes off as Gaster, primarily the use of “Very, Very Interesting”. He’s been far in the background to everything else so far, and has been the (potential) Twitter voice as well as the in game Game Over text, I wonder if this game is meant to be a Meta Narrative. I mean… of course it’s Meta, but I mean like… Toby is doing this in Chapters. What are the chances that the Fan Theories and such are being taken into account. Where the community is influencing the game to a degree and cowriting without knowing? If Gaster is meant to be an observer outside of the Game not experimenting on Deltarune itself but looking at Us the Player(s) and documenting us.
Sorry for the word wall, potential errors, and general rambling. Your posts have made me deeply curious about so much more that goes on in this game that I haven’t really thought about. And I’m curious if you had any thoughts (and if I missed them somewhere) about these!
I never mind word walls, personally!
These are all really good questions, and most of them are, I think, gonna be full posts after this shorter Answer. Particularly, 1, 3, and....god, 4.
But I think I can answer question 2 in a shorter format!
What would be a satisfying reveal for the Knight's identity?
This one goes way deeper into speculation territory than I normally get for these so I'm super fuzzy on things, but the short of it is, whatever happens in chapter 5 is going to be....big. Game changing big. Game ENDING big.
I think there's a non-zero chance that the Weird Route will just...end. In Chapter 5. And as a reflection of that, whatever happens in Chapter 5 is going to fundamentally alter how we look at Deltarune. Possibly how we play it.
This is one of my more...outside speculations, but between the sudden ramp-up of what we considered to be end-game bosses with The Knight in Chapter 3 and a Titan in Chapter 4, the fact that we've only got one shadow crystal left to find, the slow increase of battles you're required to FIGHT in, I think things are going to come to a head way faster than we might normally anticipate.
There's also that one page from the Spamton Sweepstakes (Chapter5) which shows a tiny and invisible 1, a huge 2, a huge but invisible 3, a small 4, and a bigger 5, with no 6 or 7. That might just be because it's only referencing up to chapter 5, but that does follow the pattern of the Weird Route thus far. Almost nothing in 1, and no way to affect it, a HUGE amount of influence over it in 2, no change for it in 3 but a massive reference to it with the Sword Route, and then the requirement to upkeep it in 4 but with no further gameplay with Noelle, the bigger 5 at the end suggests something between what happened in Chapter 2 and what happened in Chapter 4.
With all of this information put together, aside from more evidence that we're gonna have Noelle back in the party at some point in Chapter 5, I think it's going to be a culmination of everything into a single point.
I think we're going to learn who the Knight is in Chapter 5, and I also think we're going to find Dess. It'll be THAT level of big.
To the Dess!Kinghters maybe those things are one and the same, but to me I think an opportunity is going to arise to rescue Dess, and I think Asriel as the Knight is going to take it, save Dess, and reveal himself in the process.
Whether I'm right about that or not, I think in Chapter 5 we're going to learn what this game is really, truly about.
...Anyway! After this I'll be making a full post about the possible candidates for various roles in the Prophecy, some of which will be very serious and some of which will be very silly. Some of them might even actually happen! Till then, remember to have fun!
You know how Tenna's Feacher shows a weird Ralsei with black horns? But that doesn't make sense, right? Tenna presumably hadn't met Ralsei by that point. You know who also looks like Ralsei? Yeah. Azzy. Asriel has black horns.
For reference, we're talking about this scrunglo right here.
That IS an interesting thought in relation to the whole AzzyKnight theory I've cooked up. It would be super interesting in retrospect!
Tenna would have made this particular 'VHS' based on Kris's description of Ralsei, probably. It's not totally unreasonable to think that Kris might have described him as "Like Asriel, but with glasses and a green robe with black sleeves" and maybe however the head looks vaguely different, and just...didn't mention the pink horns.
It could just be a limited 3-color palate for the style and white would've been too hard to differentiate from the fur. But if I turn out to be right....I mean. I'm gonna point back to this!
(And this blog as a whole, unironically made it cause I was tired of not having receipts whenever my theories ended up being true.)
am i the only one intrigued by one of tenna’s hope o meters having the rainbow flowers around it (or maybe all of them have flowers idk)
Huh. Y'know, now that I've got a little time to look into this, this IS a bit weird. Because you'd THINK that'd match The Colors, but...
The flowers here are red, orange, green, light blue, dark blue, purple, and a deep blue-violet. Before actually going to look at this, I'd assumed it would've been the colors of Asgore's bouquet, as symbolism for his relationship to the Dreemurrs and all that. But there's no gold flower here, OR a yellow one, and then a totally new color. And a red one, which at the moment there's no red flower in Asgore's shop.
I'm tempted to say something about there being a lack of...justice? And an addition of Determination? But I dunno, with four differences there it might just be that the meter itself is gold so having both a yellow and a gold flower in the rotation would clash and then they needed more colors to fill out the roster, or something.
Very strange! Definitely something to keep an eye open for when Chapter 5 comes out, but for now I can't tell if it's intentional symbolism for something I can't figure out or just convenience and graphic design taking preference.
That's right, I've been promising this since PART ONE of this theory, so with all of the groundwork laid and all of the other candidates scrutinized, I'm finally gonna explain AzzyKnight. Without further ado...!
How I Originally Got Here
I have a LOT of justifications for AzzyKnight, but I'll start with the path that originally led me to considering him in the first place.
After first playing chapters 3 and 4, I spent a while ruminating over who The Knight could possibly be. Dess seemed like an obvious choice, but it felt like a copout. Dess is very much lost in the 'code' of the universe. That is a foundational event for everything that has so far happened in Deltarune. So when Dess didn't jive for me, I turned my eye to Carol for a good long while.
But that didn't feel right, either. So I started considering what we knew about The Knight. If The Knight made the Dark Fountains from chapters 1 and 2, that means that they must have some connection to the objects in those areas. Would Carol really have the kind of darkness that would support Top Chef? The Addisons? ...LANCER?
No, that didn't sound right either. So who would? We learn in Chapter 3 that the children of the Dreemurr and Holiday families played with the objects they 'borrowed' from both the abandoned classroom and the computer lab. Kris and Asriel played with the cards and dice from the classroom, and Kris and Noelle played with King and Queen and everyone else in front of Tenna.
That suggests that the most likely candidates are Kris, Noelle, Dess, and...Asriel.
Kris isn't The Knight, because Kris FIGHTS The Knight. They hold back, but they're still in the room together. Noelle seems to be the TARGET of The Knight in some respects, and she's the biggest difference between the Normal and Weird routes, but The Knight is identical in both of those. And Dess is lost.
So...it's Asriel, right? It HAS to be Asriel. That's where that line of logic invariably leads.
Oh My God Everything Makes So Much Sense Now
SO MANY little details fell into place once I reached this conclusion. Kris seems to adore Asriel, but at the same time they seem upset with him. We know that Kris and Asriel would stay up late chatting online, but in Chapter 4 if we choose to pray for Asriel, Kris doesn't even try, despite putting in genuine effort for both Rudy and Susie.
So what happened? What would have happened recently, while he was off at college, that would make Kris clam up and unresponsive when it comes to their brother?
Followup question: Why did Kris search for when college vacation starts? They probably already knew, and Toriel and Asgore both probably would have just told them. Or Asriel would have. So why search for it online? Maybe you want to say it's because they missed their brother and wanted to know without asking anyone.
But what if it wasn't that they didn't WANT to ask anyone, what if they COULDN'T ask anyone? What if, for some reason, they thought the date they were given by Toriel and Asgore was wrong, and they had to check online? What if there's a reason they couldn't ask Asriel?
What if they had to look it up because they saw Asriel?
What if Asriel is already here, and he got spotted by Kris? Then Kris's only option would be to check online for the vacation date to confirm it hadn't started yet. And when they see that it hadn't, they realize that their brother has been lying to them!
And then, when they start investigating, that's when they get brought into The Roaring Squad. That's why they seem so upset at Asriel lately.
That's why they treat information about The Knight and information about Asriel in exactly the same way.
Asriel has a door in Queen's mansion, but when we try to look inside, Kris keeps their eyes closed so we don't see anything. At the end of Chapter 4, there's a door at the back of the church which seems to be the most likely hiding spot for The Knight, and Kris refuses to open it. Literally the same reaction, denying us information about two supposedly different people, the same way.
A Boatload More Reasons This Works
That's right you thought this was gonna be some kind of slow buildup to an ultimate reveal. Nah I started with the reveal over two weeks ago, and the train of things this makes sense out of just KEEPS ROLLING BABYYYYY!
When Asriel was a kid, he ran to the church crying because he dropped legally distinct Yoshi in a hole in legally distinct Super Mario World in order to make a jump. The Knight, when we first see it, seems to be crying immediately after attacking Tenna, effectively sacrificing him to achieve its ultimate goal.
Asriel has been designing crazy fantasy bosses for video games, specifically with big rainbow wings. In Chapter 3 we learn that Asriel stopped playing the green dinosaur in Super Smashing Fighters, and switched to the SWORD MAGE, because he thought his previous favorite was childish. And then in the same chapter we learn The Knight is an edgy sword mage.
There's a twitter post floating around somewhere that shows similarities between Kris and The Knight's poses, and compares it directly to Asriel/Flowey and Chara mimicking each other's facial expressions. That reads to me like pretty strong evidence that Kris and The Knight share a similar relationship.
But the parallels go beyond that. The Knight is obviously extremely powerful, and in previous parts of this post I've lined up how Carol is likely the ringleader of this entire plan. So why is The Knight going along with what she says?
Carol has something over Kris. It's not clear what, exactly, but it's some kind of promise. Some kind of emotional blackmail that is pushing Kris into this course of action. In this theory, that promise is to do all of this to Save Dess, no matter what.
So if she's doing it to one person, why wouldn't she do it to someone else? Why wouldn't she be doing it to The Knight itself? And who's someone who was clearly involved with Dess and thus would be as much if not more driven to find Dess? Asriel.
Here's a crazy one. In Chapter 4, Susie mulls over the Shelter door, and posits that the person who would have all the access codes to open that door would probably have to be someone connected to the mayor, the police, and the church.
I present to you, the son of the (former) chief of police, who was dating the mayor's daughter, and was so religious that he confessed his sins over a video game even though their religion doesn't have confession, or the concept of sin.
A Little Speculation, As A Treat
Okay okay okay okay. That might have been a bit rapid fire. But I've been bottling all that up for a LONG time. I don't even know if I got every parallel between The Knight and Asriel. I'm sure I'm missing a few.
So, to shift gears a little bit. There are, understandably, counterarguments for AzzyKnight. In a response to a reader question, I talked about one specific aspect of that, notably that Asriel's role in Deltarune would seem to both be a repeat of the Undertale one, placing him as an antagonist, while still being different enough that the echo doesn't track very well.
Specifically, I think that the echo DOES track pretty well, and I ALSO feel like The Knight isn't gonna be our ultimate antagonist. Honestly, I don't think we're gonna get to fight it again, even, but that's neither here nor there.
The question brought up several other excellent points, all of which I actually do want to address here!
Why the antlers? Why the bat?
The question didn't include the bat, but it's related so I tossed it in. It also put this point in last, but I'm gonna address it first. Partly because the answer to this question is fairly long, includes explaining other mysteries, and leads to the answers of some of the other questions.
First of all, people have been using those antlers as evidence that it's Carol. They seem to be more pointed, sharper. Particularly at the very top. But...here's the thing.
They don't really look like Carol's, either.
Everyone has been SO focused on the shape of the tips of the antlers they haven't even taken a second to consider that the overall shape of them is absolutely nothing like the Holidays'. They curve out, maybe a little forward, then back and up from the head, starting thick near the base and gradually tapering to the tips. That's not how the Holiday antlers are shaped.
......But y'know what it DOES kinda look like?
Hm. HM. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM—
Aside from that, there's always the idea that the horns/antlers are aspects of the helmet that The Knight is wearing, since we know it IS a helmet because of the 'Think of The Knight' option in chapter 4. That would allow basically anyone to be under there.
It's at this point that it becomes very helpful to ask not only who The Knight is, but what The Knight is. Or more specifically:
-–—What material is the Black Shard?
The Black Shard material is something of a huge mystery, but we've actually got a pretty big clue in regards to that. I touched on it briefly back in Part 4 of this theory, particularly in regards to this Twitter Theory regarding the origin of The Knight by @StephsArtLab.
In the Chapter 4 pre-egg room (the Roots room), we can find a book that has a bit of a passage in it. This passage seems like it MIGHT be part of the prophecy, but it isn't portrayed as a glass pane like the others That makes its origin is a bit mysterious, but it does say something extremely interesting.
Steph posits this as the origin of The Knight, and I partially agree. I think this is where the Black Shard material came from. However, I don't think that the fallen star referred to here is Dess.
If anyone read the question I answered a little bit back, I asked that you remember a certain thing that mxyzptplk said.
"[Asriel]'s the "golden boy" the whole town idolizes, whose shadow Kris is living in."
This is accurate. Asriel's side of the room is stacked with trophies. He's successful, he's friends with everyone, he's off to college which is a traditional sign of being advanced in a small place like Hometown. ...He's also something of a crybaby.
The Star that fell wasn't Dess, it was Asriel.
The details are up in the air a lot, but here's what I think happened:
Based on the shelter code existing in the guitar, it's reasonable to think that Dess was investigating the Shelter in some way. However, the adults in town seem to think the shelter is dangerous, and likely tell children not to play around there.
It's likely that Noelle's extremely afraid of the place, so Dess wants to figure out what's going on there, and if it's safe enough bring Noelle to see it and ease her fears. She lets Kris and Asriel in on this plan, to get their help in opening the door, but Asriel is too much of a good boy...and reports to his father.
Asgore sets out to pull Dess, and maybe Kris, back, or help them out of whatever trouble they're getting into. Asriel comes along. The shelter is opened, either because Dess found all the codes or all three of them together found them before Azzy lost his nerve. Dark world shenanigans ensure, the end result being Asgore doing something that prevents what he sees as a dangerous thing from attacking the town, but in the process leaving Dess behind, and/or directly causing her to fall out of the world entirely.
Asriel immediately blames himself for what happened to Dess and breaks down. He 'falls' in a metaphorical way, and probably a physical one as in 'to his knees', utterly shattered at causing this disaster, and desperately wishing to save Dess. And, since they're in a Dark World, and a particularly weak part of it if it could allow someone to fall outside the world itself, those tears, carrying that determination, could have power.
But I don't think the tears themselves created the Black Shards. I think they fell ON something. I think they fell on Dess's bat, and Dess's guitar pick.
And I think those two objects, left behind, items representing Dess herself imbued with determination in an unstable environment, created The Knight's equipment.
-–—"But The Black Shards are the same in the light and dark worlds!"
I don't think that's the case. They give the same stats, sure, but the descriptions of the items are subtly different. In the Dark World, the Black Shard's description is "A dagger-like shard of the Black Knife." Putting aside the fact that they call The Knight's sword a knife (But go off, Kris!Soul-Knight Theorists, I see you), have you seen a dagger? They're sizeable things, they need to be big enough to actually have a combat use.
Meanwhile, in the Light World, the description of the Black Shard is "A small chip of extremely hard glass. Oddly, it's nearly opaque." I dunno what definitions y'all use, but a 'small chip' is not something I'd use to describe anything 'dagger-like'. The Black Shard is smaller in the Light World, and by a fair bit, too.
This is one of the main reasons that I don't think The Knight is purely its own entity. It was able to carry Undyne through the Light World, but I don't see it being able to do that if it shrinks to a quarter its size or less. The 'stat boost' a wielder would get from equipping the weapon and armor, however, could allow them to overpower Undyne in both worlds.
So THAT'S what I think The Knight's equipment is. Dess's weapon, and Dess's dark-world armor, transformed by the strange circumstance and Asriel's regret, perhaps slightly channeling the real Dess through them. That's why The Knight wields a bat, and that's why The Knight's helmet looks as though it has antlers on it.
Speaking of that...
Why does The Knight scream like Noelle?
For anyone who doesn't know, The Knight's roar is a slowed down version of Noelle's scream from Chapter 2. This is interesting, but I don't think it, by itself, is especially compelling. Setting aside the "Toby is just reusing assets" angle on this (which is a boring counterargument anyway), if the armor has a genuine connection to Dess, it could take on other aspects from her. Particularly a scream.
Why is The Knight placed in a snowy environment next to a Christmas Tree right after we see Dess's silhouette for the first time?
Well, again, Dess is still deeply important to The Knight, but more than that, the tree and the snow (it's static, incidentally. Get it? TV Snow?) represent earlier times. Christmas was extremely important to both families, and was even more important to Tenna. That's when both families would gather together in the Dreemurr house and celebrate together, and watch those old TV specials, and give him purpose. That's the period of time he flashed back to. It's how he counted the years, and the shrinking number of people watching him.
And the last two people to leave before Toriel were Kris...and Asriel.
While that's the last of the questions from that post in particular, there's a few more I've had brought to me individually, in discussions with other people, that I'll tack right on.
Why is findher.ogg in Black Knife, then?
Aside from the point I mentioned a while back about findher.ogg being the theme of people SEARCHING for Dess, not for Dess herself, my main counterpoint to this is....have you heard the rest of the song?
Like, it's literally Burn in Despair: Asriel's battle theme from the end of the True Pacifist route when he's making the choice to hurt someone in order to be reunited with the person he cares about the most.
The Knight can turn into a small ball! That's not something any normal lightner or mortal can just DO! It MUST be some kind of amorphous entity or Amalgamate.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh—
I guess the Knight's ball is a little smaller, but I don't think it means it's like, liquid.
But The Knight looks nothing like As—
Seriously, Asriel's God of Hyperdeath form even has holes (if they even are holes, in either case) in his hands and a sphere in the center of his body. Also doubling down on the shape of the horns thing from before.
Probably To Be Continued...
I'm sure I've missed some things, and I'm sure people will have questions or thoughts or denials, and I'm very much open to all of them! Beyond this I don't have any SPECIFIC plans, but I intend to post some smaller thoughts. Maybe in little chunks! And I'll probably have more thoughts when I play through the game again.
Anyway, sorry for taking so long with this one! New job, made things a lot harder to sit down and write, or keep a coherent thought between writing sessions. Hopefully this is the last of the REALLY big posts until I stumble into something major. Maybe some speculation of what's going to happen going forward, or some more story-ish representations of this theory in the context of certain events.
There is no One True Girl: A Deltarune Theory (MAJOR SPOILERS FOR ALL OF THE GAME SO FAR)
PART 1: INTERPRETATION
One of the most contentious topics in the Deltarune fandom since the release of Chapters 3 and 4 has been the prophecy provided to us in the latter, or more specifically...this prophecy about the second hero.
And it's pretty easy to see why. After all, up until now we've been led to believe that Susie is the second hero of legend, and yet there are many aspects of this depiction of that hero (particularly the use of a sword) that suggest she isn't supposed to be here. Instead, the girl may be someone ELSE, with the most popular prediction from what I've seen being Noelle.
Now, what's MY stance on this debate? Do I think that Susie is going against the rules by being here instead of someone else? Well...no...but also yes? Basically, I am of the belief that the prophecy is not nearly as strict about the identity of the girl (along with most other participants in the story it has written) as the characters have been led to believe. As such, Susie is not necessarily breaking the rules by being as involved as she is...however, she may still be an obstacle in the way of someone else's plan.
This is my first time really making anything about Deltarune on this blog, so I may very well get things wrong here and there, and a lot of what I talk about will be up to subjective interpretation, but I feel satisfied with the research I've done and kind of just...want to share my perspective on things. Even if I make counters to arguments that others have made, I'm really not trying to put anyone else down, nor am I attempting to "solve Deltarune" or anything (I think to do so after the newest chapters completely destroyed my expectations would be the definition of hubris), but this is just one of many ways I think things could play out, and any counterpoints I do make are more for the sake of validating my own theory than proving anyone else "objectively wrong".
This theory will delve into how the prophecy works and how it can be "subverted", the machinations of the various conspirators manipulating things behind the scenes (who I'll just be calling the "Knight crew" for simplicity's sake), where certain aspects of the narrative could potentially go in both the normal and weird route, and a little bit about the origins of the prophecy at the end for good measure.
It's also a VERY long one, which is rather on brand for me, so I've decided to split it into four parts, albeit the fourth part will be more of a bonus that covers topics that are only semi-related to the core argument of this theory, but still something I wanted to talk about anyways.
I'd also like to give credit to a theory written by @justdeltarunethings, which can be found as their pinned post (at least as of the time I'm writing this lol.) Their theory ultimately talks about very different subject matter than mine and comes to some conclusions regarding those topics that are very different from my own, but their views surrounding the prophecy in particular are extremely similar to how I've come to see it, and I would not be making some of the points I'm about to make if I hadn't heard it from them first, so I'd encourage people to give that a read if they haven't already, as it's very well made. :).
Anyways...this could get pretty long, and depending on how late I stay up writing this it could also go down some deep rabbit holes, so uh... buckle up!
Before I dive into any other topic, it's important to establish just...how I think the prophecy even works on a broad level, and to do that, we're going to need to examine the words of the character in Deltarune who is the most consistently correct in what he says; Gerson "Old Man" Boom.
So, I'm sure that anyone reading this has caught onto the fact that basically every dark world we've visited so far (with the arguable exception of Castle Town) have been based on forms of entertainment that allow for escapism, like the internet, TV, etc. Chapter 4's dark world (which I'll be referring to as "The Sanctuary" for the sake of a catch-all term) is a bit less on-the-nose with how it continues this trend, in part due to the fact that the society and history within the dark world is less of a primary focus than in other chapters, but I would still argue that 'writing' is the main theme here (albeit it's not just fictional literature, but also things like religious scripture and musical notation.)
And Gerson, despite not even being a Darkner originally, is one of the clearest examples of this, being the author of a renowned high fantasy series that seems to have heavily influenced the Sanctuary's aesthetics and way of life for it's residents. Throughout the chapter, Gerson grants us various insights into his philosophies surrounding the art of writing stories, and how authors and audiences alike should engage with them. He also shares a very insightful way of looking at the prophecy with the fun gang; that being to not focus on it too hard that they neglect to forge their own path in order to achieve a more favourable outcome.
Now, considering that Lord of the Hammer is BASED on the prophecy, I think it's reasonable to assume that any views Gerson expresses on one of them can apply to the other, and given just how much the game wants both the player and the fun gang to take his words seriously, I feel like his views can grant us further insight into how the prophecy actually works.
Essentially, this is just a long-winded way of saying that Gerson values INTERPRETATION of stories above all else. Whether he's talking about his own creation or an ancient handbook of destiny that had an entire religion formed around it, this guy is the biggest advocate for the importance of media literacy and personal engagement with written works I think I've ever seen. His existence in the game is single-handedly destroying the notion that Toby Fox hates it when people theorise about tiny little details he never really intended to matter, and it grinds my gears so much that some people continue to get mad at theorists "on his behalf" despite that.
He smashes the glass tapestries not because he's completely opposed to the prophecy (he says it himself that believing in it here and there is beneficial as it can inspire hope, and I think it would be unreasonable to hold complete disdain for something that grants a method for saving the world from complete destruction while also being as morally upstanding as he is), but rather because he believes that taking it at face value will prevent the fun gang from seeing any alternative options that may help them achieve a better ending than whatever the prophecy grants.
And then there's the most blatant example of him sharing his ideologies of interpretation, where he says that he believes "Stories can be retold. They can be changed", IN DIRECT REFERENCE to how Lord of the Hammer re-interpreted the prophecy, and then subsequently had itself re-interpreted by Dragon Blazers. Despite being a famous author himself, Gerson strongly believes that the author's intended meaning when creating their story should not be taken as gospel if not made overt, (I...might not apply that line of thinking to this analysis of Deltarune itself, but theorizing about how an unfinished story may go in the future kind of requires us to try and get into the author's head at least a little bit, because otherwise we have no way of discerning what any given detail might be trying to imply, so...I'll make an exception here, sorry Gerson), and that how the audience interprets the story in front of them is just as, if not more important, and can completely alter the meaning of the author's words from what was initially intended when those words were written on the page. Basically, the literally dead author character is a believer in the "death of the author" principle. Wow.
So with all of that being said...what happens when we apply Gerson's philosophies regarding literary analysis at large to the story detailed by the prophecy? Well, simply put, it leads to the conclusion that the prophecy only has control over what is directly stated within it. It doesn't matter if its creator wanted to imply much more than what we see, because if they weren't explicit about what they wanted in the magical floating glass text, then it is up to the interpretation of the characters as to what any of the vaguer aspects of the script even means, and they can follow that script however they choose by finding loopholes and wiggle room.
The reason the prophecy is so vague in so many parts (e.g., what the "Ring of Heaven's Call" even IS) isn't just for the sake of keeping the player guessing, but because it's actually just THAT vague in-universe. In fact, I think it's entirely possible that this isn't a scenario where the creator even wanted the prophecy to be ultra-specific about the most minute of details, and they deliberately wrote it in a super vague way out of curiosity for how people would interpret and subsequently enact it, but...I'll get more into what that might mean at the end of this theory.
The fun gang...might just not be able to "break" the prophecy. There may very well be no method of making what it says completely invalid. But at the same time, I think that they might be overestimating just how set-in-stone everything it says is, and that the solution isn't to destroy it or overpower it, but rather to OUTSMART it, to get creative and interpret its words in a way that differs from the obvious conclusion.
And thankfully, I have more proof for this being how the prophecy works than just Gerson's philosophy. I think we've already seen the fun gang do exactly this, even if they didn't intend to! A lot of people have already drawn attention to this, but I think it's important to have a more clear-cut example as evidence instead of just conjecture based on one character's perception of fate, so I'm bringing it up anyway. This example is, of course:
Tenna's prophecy. Now, this prophecy is not incorrect whatsoever. That Lord of Screens really WAS cleaved red by blade. But...imagine for a second that you somehow stumbled upon this prior to the ending of Chapter 3. What would you think upon seeing this? Well, that Tenna would die, of course! But the thing is...while that can still happen if you haven't recruited everyone in TV World, it's obviously possible to completely prevent that from happening. Namely, the two things that prevent it are your decision to recruit everyone, an aspect of the story that is ultimately in your hands and not those of the prophecy, and Susie patching him up, and well...even if I'm about to argue that she works as the second hero just fine and isn't breaking the prophecy by being here, it's impossible to deny that the idea of going against the rules and taking matters into her own hands is like...her schtick at this point.
It's not as if what this prophecy describes didn't come to pass or was completely subverted, just that...Kris, Susie, and Ralsei were able to make it pass on their OWN terms, and ultimately, the obvious meaning of the prophecy was kind of just...entirely invalidated by their own actions; actions that were not predetermined by destiny, but not against it by technicality either.
We obviously do not know what the "final tragedy" at the end of the prophecy is yet, and I'm not really here to discuss that, but whatever it is...I think it'll be a scenario where the terror that Susie and Ralsei feel towards it at the end of Chapter 4 is more of a gut reaction, and that if they take the time to look at whatever it says from a different angle, they'll find a way to gain a happy ending without doing something that leads to a massive upheaval of the laws of fate.
I...guess I might as well mention before anyone brings it up that...there is a possible instance where the prophecy has just been straight up denied, and that's the one which proclaims "THE QUEEN'S CHARIOT CANNOT BE STOPPED", presumably in reference to Queen's car. Now, assuming this one is past the point of being applied to some other event that has yet to come, then...yes, it is true that it doesn't line up with what we see in Chapter 2, as her car is stopped by a traffic jam.
This is definitely an interesting topic, but...it's not especially relevant to this theory oddly enough? If this discrepancy implies anything, I think it's either suggesting that the Annoying Dog is a literal deity that exists above the rules of the prophecy (as it presumably started the traffic jam), or more likely, that our meeting with Spamton was somehow not only not written in the prophecy, but actively goes against it, which is...honestly pretty on-brand for him. However, I feel like this probably has more to do with shadow crystals and the strange powers they grant than anything else, so...that might just be a theory for another time.
Regardless, there is one last aspect of the prophecy at large that I think is important to draw attention to in order to understand the one about the girl, that being how the prophecy refers to all of the people who play a part in it. Because with the exception of Jockington (which once again, is a topic for another time and...in his case probably another person as I don't know if I have it in me to write a theory about his role in this under the assumption I'll be taken seriously, and I believe it says more about him than it does anything else), no one in the prophecy is ever referred to directly by name. It's always a title instead, like "The Lord of Screens", "The Pointy-Headed Boy", or "The Prince", as opposed to just "Tenna", "Lancer" and "Ralsei".
And if we analyse this recurring detail under the assumption that the prophecy only has complete control over what it describes in explicit detail, I find this to be....uh....(do not say very very interesting do NOT say it)....really, really intriguing. Because, this should imply that the prophecy...isn't actually that strict about which specific people play a part in it. I think it's beneficial to almost look at this as a sort of...casting call for actors that are needed to play parts. Like, in the case of the third hero, the prophecy isn't necessarily looking for "Ralsei", but just "a prince alone in deepest dark", which if not for the fact that he fits "the pointy-headed boy who says "toothpaste" and then "boy"" better, would've arguably worked just as well for Lancer. This...might not be the best example as I do think there's a solid chance Ralsei was created for the sake of being the third hero, but that doesn't necessarily need to have been by the same person who made the prophecy, and like...whatever, you get my point right?!
Actually, on the topic of Lancer, there is one other aspect of the prophecy's specificity that I think needs to be acknowledged, and that is the pictures underneath each piece of text. Because while, like I said, the prophecy never refers to people by name outside of Jockington, it DOES tend to have images depicting the people it's talking about. Generally, these images are still pretty vague in terms of who they're depicting (with the heroes being pretty noteworthy examples of this)...but there are exceptions to this rule, namely Lancer and Asgore.
Now, I have seen some people suggest that these images are more indicative of how the Sanctuary's creators interpret the scripture, and therefore do not matter as much as the text. This is because the church in the light world is stated to not have any pictures of the prophecy, and because only the text is directly stated to not warp when viewed through the lens of a shadow crystal.
This would...certainly give me less strawman arguments to counter, and I think works fine in the cases of the first and third sanctuaries, given that how much the Knight knows, or just...what is going on in their head is a pretty open book, but with that being said...I'm not that convinced.
This is mostly because, if this were true, then why does the prophecy about the first hero in the Second Sanctuary depict something that Susie has absolutely zero knowledge of, despite it being a dark world of her creation? Better yet, why do the prophecies we first see in the Second Sanctuary remain consistent in their imagery when they re-appear in the third? I think the reason the prophecy appears in the Sanctuary at large is just because it's the dark reflection of the church, and I don't think you can argue that the images reflect how the church-goers interpret the prophecy, since they are explicitly stated to not have images of it, have never met Lancer if their names aren't Kris and Susie, and if they genuinely thought Asgore had a role to play in it, I imagine they'd be more hesitant to act the way they do towards him.
So...yeah, I do think these images are just...a part of the prophecy, and likely have similar if not identical levels of influence over it to that of the words. That influence doesn't neccessarily need to be "the person or thing we're talking about looks like this", because last I checked Kris was not literally a soul and two arms, but I think it needs to be at least somewhat representative of the accompanying text's subject matter. But even then, I think it's entirely possible that much like the words, the images can also be interpreted in different ways by different people. Well...ok, I think the picture of Lancer is pretty hard to interpret, but...even though I do find it curious how the prophecy only draws attention to a small aspect of his pretty significant role in the story, which might suggest that most of what he does is purely out of free will, and that the reason why Ralsei is so weirdly cold to him at times is because he kind of just expected him to be a minor comic-relief character and oh my GOD CARD KINGDOM WILL BE SO RELEVANT YOU GUYS I SWEAR TO GOD-...uh...yeah this one is still pretty jokey in nature, and if anything, the idea that Lancer's intended level of significance to the prophecy is so small makes me think that it's creator would care less about leaving the role of "pointy-headed boy" open to multiple outcomes for who gets it, so I'm just gonna take this as the opportunity to draw my "I wouldn't worry about it" card...kind of.
But then on the other hand...we have this one:
Most people here have taken Asgore himself to be the "Flower Man" in this prophecy, and more specifically, assume that he will be the ruler of a dark world inside Flower King during Chapter 5, and that the "trapped in asylum" part refers to either his dynamic with Carol, how the darkners of his world may treat him, or both. And...yeah, I can totally get behind this! I might question the notion of us fighting Asgore if he's not...possessed by an IMAGE_FRIEND inside him or something, but this is a completely logical assumption to make with the information we've been given!
However, unlike with Lancer's prophecy, which leaves very little wiggle room for who the Pointy-Headed Boy is, I'd argue that this one is much more up to interpretation, even if only for the fact that...we don't have Chapter 5 at the moment, so most speculation is ultimately pretty open. But aside from that...maybe the flower man is actually a really important darkner based on a flower! The "trapped by asylum" bit could refer to how they're treated by Asgore, and would fit quite nicely with the image beneath the text.
Am I saying this is more likely than the flower man being Asgore? No, either option is equally possible in my eyes! The point I'm trying to make here is that even if the image is clearly depicting Asgore, it's still vague enough for them to be someone else instead, and thus, I consider this image to be another example of the prophecy being interpretable. In short, I think that much like the text, the images can be viewed and therefore manifested in reality in a variety of ways. Some are easier to find alternate interpretations to than others, but ultimately, I think the same principles I've applied to the text in the prophecy can apply here as well.
...And last, was the girl. At last, was the girl. That's basically just a nerdy way of saying that I'm finally at the main point of...this part of the theory, good lord. So, for a very brief recap of what I've just laid out:
The prophecy is written (likely deliberately) in a way that is very vague and indirect, which allows anyone who decides to get involved with it to interpret it whenever something is not explicit in its meaning, and they can subsequently steer it in a direction that they find preferable wherever there is wiggle room.
This also means that, with one bearded exception for some god damn reason, and...maybe also Lancer(?), no specific individual is necessarily destined to be a part of the prophecy. Instead, since the prophecy only refers to people with titles, it is more like the prophecy is seeking out people with specific qualities to play the various parts in itself, and it doesn't care who those people are as long as they meet the requirements. So with all of that finally established...what does this mean for The Girl?
If we look at this prophecy while taking into account the interpretation of how the prophecy at large functions that I've outlined, it becomes clear just how...not specific whatsoever it is? To start off, we have the requirements needed to fit the role of the second hero, those being "girl" and "hope crossed on heart". One of those is...obviously not difficult to come across by any stretch of the imagination, and the other is INCREDIBLY abstract , and could mean so many different things for so many different people. And as of Chapter 4's ending...Susie clearly identifies herself as both of these things. Sure, she only says she has "hope crossed on her heart" AFTER seeing this prophecy, but to assume that doesn't come from a genuine place that is reflective of her arc thus far and strong emotions regarding everything she's been through would be...antithetical to the themes of her character if I'm putting it lightly.
So by all means, Susie fits the writing here perfectly. Sure, that's not exactly the hardest thing to do, but still. So then, what about the image? Again, it's quite vague, and I can see why people interpret aspects of it as being more Noelle-like. The spikes coming from the back could be angel-wings, and the top part could be her hood. Obviously she has antlers, but if we ever see her wearing her hood and the sprite doesn't show them, then...this line of thinking could still work.
But that being said, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to claim these details could also be perceived as representative of Susie's hair and snout at the same time. The ONLY thing here that might suggest the girl cannot be Susie is, as many have pointed out, the sword, as while Susie has never wielded a sword, Noelle...also technically HASN'T, but hacking the game reveals she can use the Jingle Blade and the Black Shard, and she'll almost certainly re-join the party at some point in the future.
Now, how do I plan to adjust this potential hole in my argument? Well...uh...look, I definitely do have ideas as to how this can work with what I'm suggesting here, but...I'm going to need you to wait a little bit before I explain how, as it's more based on hypotheticals about what could happen in future chapters, rather than any inherent laws of Deltarune's world, and...I'm gonna need to cover some more subject matter before I can get to that. So for now, I'm just going to ask you to suspend your disbelief for the time being, but I PROMISE that I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
...Ok I lied. Yeah so uh...I'm editing this part in after I've already written a bit further ahead, and I do still have some interpretations of what the deal with this sword could be to share in a later part, but there is one possible explanation for how the presence of this sword can co-exist with Susie being the girl that I just came up with, and that doesn't require a whole deep dive into other subject matter before I can get to it.
So, during the fight against Gerson, he urges Susie to pick up "a white pen called hope" in order to face the coming trials and tribulations on her journey, before she proclaims that her weapon is more like a hairbrush. This is referencing the fact that pens and pencils manifest as swords in the dark world, while brushes manifest as axes.
Now Gerson, of course, is ultimately supportive of Susie's declaration, as it's an example of her being true to herself and existing outside of her supposedly predetermined role in the grand scheme of things. This honestly might be further evidence against the idea that Susie would ever pick up a sword, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.
The point I'm trying to make is that we now have a comparison between hope and a pen, and by extension, hope and a sword. And ultimately, Susie still comes to view herself as a person with "hope crossed on her heart." As such, I think that you could interpret the sword seen in the prophecy about the Girl in a more metaphorical sense, and it would still fit Susie very well, even if she never comes to actively wield a sword. I may circle back around to this idea, either to expand upon it or provide alternative interpretations on what the sword in the prophecy may represent, but for now, I think this is a suitable justification for why I think Susie can still be the second hero despite the sword.
Other than all of that, I would like to suggest that the Girl wielding a sword is...not the best evidence for her being Noelle? Like, it's more than what Susie has going for her if we're talking about the state of the world at the moment, sure, but swords are not Noelle's primary weapon, rings are, so to me, it feels kind of weird for her to be SYMBOLISED with swords if she is destined to be the girl, which as I've already made clear, I don't believe is even how the prophecy works to begin with. If anything, Noelle's weapon choices point more towards her being a candidate for...whatevereth this thing is.
...Especially since there's a clear dichotomy between this and the "Tail of Hell", the latter of which many believe to be Friend, who seems to have some sort of connection to Noelle...but all of this is probably a discussion for another time. It's also worth noting that the two swords she can wield have specific connections to her beyond just what type of weapon they are. The Jingle Blade is just her pencil, and the Black Shard...look, I'm going to try my best to avoid talking about the absolute chaos that is the Knight's identity over the course of this theory, but to keep it brief, it doesn't take a genius to notice that Noelle is STRONGLY connected to them in some way or another.
Ultimately I don't think these details really matter THAT much for the sake of this theory, I mean, assuming the sword HAS to be representative of the girl's primary weapon of choice is a subjective interpretation in its own right, but I thought I might as well mention it just because it came to mind.
Basically, what I'm getting at here is that...there is no clear definitive answer as to who "The Girl" even is. Whoever made the prophecy does not seem to have a specific individual in mind for the role, and even if they do, the fact they didn't make their desire clear in the prophecy itself (I'm assuming the glass is the original place where the prophecy was first written given its magical properties and potential connections to Shadow Crystals, the latter of which is a whole beast of its own) means that even if the girl isn't who they intended, they don't get to proclaim them as the "wrong choice" as long as they fit the criteria, as authorial intent does not give them full power over their creation.
Could Noelle be The Girl? Well, if we're talking about that in the sense of "does she have the potential to become worthy of that title", then yes! In fact, while I'll explain my reasoning for this in a later part, I actually think it's possible that the identity of the girl has yet to be set in stone at this point in the narrative, and she could potentially take the title from Susie before either of them are officially deemed as the holder of the title later on. But she isn't DESTINED to be the girl, and Susie, while also not destined in her own right, isn't breaking the rules by playing the role of the girl thus far.
Her arrival in the dark world was probably not destined, yes, but she still functions just fine as the second hero, because she still meets all of the required criteria. In fact, part of why I wanted to make this theory in the first place, and by extension argue against the notion that Susie is literally incapable of ever being the girl, is because I don't like the idea that Susie's presence alone has just completely invalidated the prophecy, and it's been broken since Chapter 1.
Not only do I feel like this would remove a lot of the stakes and pressure associated with the prophecy, but I think it takes away from what makes Susie so compelling in the discussion of Deltarune's themes of freedom, and what makes her as free as she is. That being...the fact that she's just some guy who showed up. Like, Kris has the Soul, Noelle has the angel motifs and the weird route, Ralsei is...Ralsei, but Susie? She's just authentically herself, she isn't bound by her circumstances (...at least on a cosmic horror destiny level, her home life and troubled past are a different story but that's not the point I'm trying to make right now), and this is because she's just...allowed to be a regular person.
If it turned out that Susie just...had willpower so strong that she defied the entire system of fate in Deltarune's world...I mean, I'd be rooting for her, "Susie Rulez" and all that, but I think it would take away from what makes her such an inspiring symbol of freedom, as it would require her to have enough inherent strength to have been overpowering god since the beginning.
And you might argue that Susie becoming the second hero would constrict her, but I believe that's entirely dependent on how she approaches it, and that she'll find a way to still be free despite playing a role. To use the actor comparison once again; Susie might be given a role to play, and she'll have to do certain things to effectively play it, but the role is thankfully not very strict in what it requires of her, and as such, she'll have a lot of control over how she plays it.
To elaborate a bit more on what I mean, look at Ralsei. It's highly likely that this guy has had his role of the third hero since his inception, and a big reason for that is because he starts out as little more than his role. His character arc is evidently one of learning to be a person outside of his so-called "purpose". So then we have Susie, who's relationship with Ralsei might just be the most blatant example of narrative and thematic foils ever conceived. Taking that into account, how might her relationship with her role contrast with his?
It's simple. While he turns himself into a person beyond his role, Susie takes advantage of the vagueness of her role, and transforms it into something that doesn't constrict her, but REPRESENTS her. Ralsei was born with his role, but if Susie becomes the girl, it'll be something she EARNED, an idea made even more clear by how the prophecy about the Prince describes him prior to the story's events, while the Girl's describes the person she becomes after a lot of development.
I don't think that Susie is literally so strong that she just completely invalidates the prophecy's existence and all of the stakes that come with it. I feel like if that was the case, it would honestly make her, and by extension the entire game's messages of freedom less inspiring, as the average person can't just topple the rules and restrictions of life with a growth mindset alone.
But I do think that she's strong enough to make the prophecy happen on her own terms. Even if she has to play a specific role, the sheer ingenuity of "Susie's Idea" (uh...as in her general creativity and tendency to question the norm, not as in her throwing her friends at opponents) will be enough for her to interpret the prophecy in a way crafty enough to achieve a happy ending, and gain her and those she holds dear enough freedom to "face danger head on"....much like Gerson said she'd have to do in a fight where the whole gimmick was her being stuck in place.
Ok, before I wrap this up, I just wanted to address something quickly, and that is this prophecy about the Girl which has an image of Rude Buster (or at least, that's what it's called in the files.)
Uh...I think the same principle that I applied to the prophecy at large still applies here? Probably? Ultimately it's nigh impossible to tell how seriously we're supposed to take the names of specific assets in the files, obviously ones labeled with "IMAGE" and "DEVICE" seem to be pretty important, but it's entirely possible that this asset is only called Rude Buster because that's the most obvious interpretation to make upon seeing it, even though on an in-universe level, it could be interpreted by the characters as something else should Susie not claim the title of The Girl in the long run (which as I said earlier, is a possibility I will cover in a later part.)
But that being said, it's just as likely that this is labeled as rude buster because that is just...what it is, and it cannot be anything else. So if that's the case and the game was to go in a direction where Noelle becomes the girl, then uh...I don't know, Noelle learns Rude Buster, and then we fight Carol in Chapter 6 and she uses a version of Dual Buster with Susie called Yuri Buster. Yeah...this isn't really something I can come up with an answer for that fully satisfies me, but I don't think the existence of this prophecy completely invalidates this entire theory, and that's good enough for me.
And...that's basically it for this part of the theory! To sum it up, I don't think that Susie, Noelle, or really anyone is destined to be the girl, but I also don't think there's anything stopping either of them from earning that role either. I also think that Susie being the girl can co-exist with her thematic role as a symbol of freedom and forging your own ending, and that she has the power to turn the title of the second hero from something that controls her, and into something that reflects her instead.
But that being said...this is far from the end of this theory in its entirety. Because while I disagree with the notion that Susie is defying the prophecy itself, and by extension its creator, by being here instead of Noelle...she might still be defying someone else by doing that. I think it's very likely that the Fun Gang is not the only group who will try to enact the prophecy in a way that benefits them. I think there are other individuals who are trying to do the same for their own purposes, and have been doing so since before the game began.
Individuals who want specific people to claim specific titles within the prophecy, with the three heroes being the most important ones. People who have been actively trying to force Noelle into becoming the second hero through various manipulations, who will continue to do so as the narrative progresses, and who may even succeed if I'm right in assuming that the Girl has yet to be officially chosen. People who are probably not very happy about Susie taking Noelle's chances of becoming The Girl. And I think the clearest example of this comes from the one, the only, Calloween Holiday.
....what, why are you looking at me like that?
Anyways, that's all for now! If you've managed to make it to the end of this, thank you so so much for reading! The theorising part of the Deltarune fandom is...quite intimidating to me at times, so I really hope that even if your opinions and interpretations differ from mine, you still had a good time enjoying what I had to say :).
In the next part, I plan to discuss what the Knight crew might be trying to do in relation to the prophecy, unpack at least a little bit about what their plan was with creating the Sanctuary and the Titan, talk about how my interpretation of the way the prophecy functions may apply to Kris, Noelle, and briefly Ralsei, and why I think it's likely that the identity of the Girl has yet to be officially determined forever.
I'm hoping to have the second part done pretty soon, and I'll update this post with a link to it when it's done, so keep an eye out if you're interested! :) <3
I know I slowed down and seem like I disappeared, but I promise I haven't! I just started a new job. Exciting stuff! But it's keeping me VERY busy, like out of the house all week busy. And until I get a laptop, blog work is locked to my cell phone and a bluetooth keyboard throughout the week. Not unworkable, but not the best.
Plus I mean, this next post is THE BIG ONE. I wanna make sure I've got everything lined up just right, and that I'm not missing anything major. And I do already have a loooooot of words down already.
I don't have a strict ETA for it, but it's coming!
