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@personalityarchive
Just as an example of Fe or Fi... Fe tends to get offended on behalf of 'other people.' Like you had to pull out of an appointment you made with a friend and their twin sister, and instead of talking to you about how disappointed or upset they are, they start off the conversation by saying you angered their sister, and that is unacceptable in their mind. You see, the focus isn't on YOU and ME, the focus is on US -- I am part of everyone I care about. How my sister feels about you, I feel about you. If you upset my sister, you upset me. "We" are one. This is kind of a... continual deflecting off "me" into "how others feel." It can mean they assume they have to defend how others feel, and feel things for them -- or get offended on their behalf, simply out of the idea of you upsetting them being offensive, because it is disturbing the group harmony.
A Fi user dealing with this sort of thing will find it strange (why aren't you speaking for yourself or from your own experience?), but also turn to self-blame, because their focus is on... "me" and "how I am," and if "I am living up to my own high standard." So they will react like "I am feeling this way, and I don't like it, and obviously the problem is mine to fix, because I am responsible for how I react to people." Often, they won't assign blame fairly to the other person (this person is doing this just to upset me, so they are the jerk) and will instead, make it a self-problem -- I should be more ____ (forgiving, accepting, loving, responsible, less emotional, etc), because I don't like how this makes me feel. They think in terms of 'me' -- so things are my problem to fix, my attitude is mine to adjust, my issues with this person are mine to resolve, etc.
Superficially, all feelers want the same thing -- love, harmony, acceptance, the right to make ethical decisions -- but they are two extremely different approaches to life, one based in "other" (how are YOU feeling about this?) and one based in "self" (how am *I* feeling about this?). Because a Fe focuses so much on "other," sometimes they will assign the blame in a situation outside themselves unfairly (rather than assuming they are the problem here), and because Fi places so much emphasis on "self," sometimes they will assign the blame too much unfairly to themselves (rather than assuming the other person is the problem). The challenge for both is to do the opposite from time to time in order to recalibrate themselves -- the Fi needs to learn to focus on "other" more (is this my fault or theirs? should I be more considerate?) and the Fe needs to learn to focus on "self" more (how do *I* feel about this? am I speaking for others without consulting them again?).
How does Fe loop work in an ENTP? Think I might be in one and I'm not sure what to do about it…
What is an Ne-Fe loop like?
Under normal circumstances, Fe in general usually seeks to understand another’s feelings and be attentive to the needs of others. This allows for a healthy appreciation of relationships and connections.
What does a healthy tertiary Fe look like?
In a healthy ENTP, tertiary Fe allows us to be more considerate of others and we seek to be more understanding of people and are likely to listen to their thoughts with empathy. It also makes us aware of how our behaviour can affect others and we are likely to adjust our way of interacting with others to ensure that there is a sense of cooperation.
Ti can overlook many aspects of the external world in its somewhat obsessive search for the whole truth. This causes the stereotypical cold, blunt and ‘I-don’t-give-a-fuck’ ENTP. Such ENTPs can overlook the importance of engaging with others to create an environment where ideas, thoughts and possibilities can be explored in a more cooperative manner.
Tertiary Fe helps to correct this weakness. It keeps us in check and reminds us to take consideration when presenting our thoughts and ensures that we understand and appreciate healthy connections with others.
What does an unhealthy tertiary Fe look like?
We become extremely sensitive to criticism and are likely to lash out for it. We are unable to handle disagreements and differences in opinions well, especially when this disagreement is acting against our Ne. This can cause us to seem cold, insensitive and extremely arrogant.
There is a strong need to be independent or, at the very least, be seen as being independent. For this reason, we are likely to refuse to acknowledge people’s opinions or even accommodate relationships, especially with our loved ones and people we care about. This is mostly due to believing that feelings are a weakness and that such a weakness can be used against us and also ruin our reputation.
With our Fe perspective, we can take advantage of the awareness of other people’s feelings and weaknesses to intentionally cause hurt and upset them. We can also use this knowledge to manipulate others into doing things we want or into liking us. This feeds our ego and gives us a false sense of confidence.
An example of this would be an ENTP acting nice and caring towards a person, not out of the goodness of their heart but with the intention of wanting to be liked by people. Later on, when the ENTP needs something from said person, they would guilt-trip the person into helping with something along the lines of, “I’ve done so much for you. I helped you when no one else did, and I’ve always been such a good friend. We’re friends, aren’t we? So you’ll help me, right? You’ll help me because I’ve always helped you, right? Because that’s what friends do, after all. And we’re friends.”
An unhealthy tertiary Fe can quickly lead to an Ne-Fe loop.
What does an Ne-Fe loop look like?
During an Ne-Fe loop, we tend to overlook or ignore the advice of our auxillary Ti. Fe is an extroverted function, similar to our dominant Ne, meaning that we can easily become heavily concerned about the external world. Without the introspective view provided by our auxillary Ti, it is very easy for us to become defensive about our inability to manage problems and blame our surroundings or other people instead of looking within ourselves and our own shortcomings.
Interestingly, those of us in an Ne-Fe loop have a constant need for approval from others. We aren’t consciously aware of this so it can be difficult for us to recognise that this is happening until either the situation gets out of hand or someone points it out to us.
There is a lot of insecurity involved and we have very little confidence in our ability to make decisions and good judgments without the approval of others. Wanting to feel confident about ourselves, we are likely to seek admiration by manipulating people and other social situations. There is a lot of anxiety about how people see us and a lot of pressure in wanting to be admired and seen as independent and capable.
This can manifest in wanting to achieve certain results such as getting the top grades, buying the best clothes etc. This puts us in situations which would, under normal circumstances, be unreasonable for us (such as taking on too many responsibilities than we are able to handle), and it also puts us under unnecessary pressure. Such an anxious and eager-to-please mindset takes a huge toll on our mental health, eventually leaving us unable to manage the issues created by our Ne-Fe loop.
How to get out of an Ne-Fe loop?
At first, an Ne-Fe loop can seem very empowering. It can seem like everything is under our control and that we have the ability to manipulate situations to fit our Ne’s liking. However, this later causes problems (both mentally and in our surroundings) that simply Ne and Fe can’t handle by themselves.
At this point, it is important to take a step back and reintroduce auxillary Ti to its rightful place. Healthy Ti helps us to make better judgments by allowing us to reflect on our decisions before we decide to act on impulse.
We can help re-engage our auxillary Ti by:
Considering possible future consequences of our immediate actions. (e.g. “By saying this, will I be seriously offending someone?”)
Taking into account the pros and cons of a decision. (e.g. “This subject seems the most exciting, however that subject has more opportunities to learn such and such.”)
Prioritising. (e.g. “Yes, I could work on that side-project now. It sounds like a good idea. However, then I would be taking out time that I could spend studying for my exams in the next two weeks. Hm. I’ll study for my exams instead and then, after they’re over, I can set aside time to work on my side-project.”)
I should note that there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to achieve certain outcomes such as having good grades and whatnot which I mentioned earlier, but not at the expense of our mental health, and most certainly not while just running for it, hoping it will happen, our only intention being to impress others.
With the help of Ti, and later Si, we can achieve specific results with better precision and carefully planned steps to ensure that we can do it to the best of our abilities. This will reduce wasted time, energy and errors while also helping us to be much happier and confident with our decisions.
Related: What is an Si-grip like?
What would an ENTP in a Si grip be like? How might they end up in one? How does an ENTP develop their Si to become more healthy? (Kinda worried I'm using an immature Si a bit too much recently, and the effects are getting me down)
What is an Si grip like?
Introverted sensing, unlike extroverted sensing, directs attention to your own self rather than your environment itself.
One way to describe Inferior Si would be obsessive. We become very anxious about our health, time and work.
Health
We misinterpret our body and become extremely concerned about our own health. To the point where it’s unnecessarily unhealthy and bordering on paranoia. This is because our focus is suddenly shifted towards ourselves, rather than the external world like our dominant function, Ne.
We’re not naturally attuned to our own bodies and being in the Si-grip suddenly makes us very painfully aware of ourselves and the small things that never bothered us before suddenly make us worry and overthink that there might be something very wrong with us.
We begin to notice the little things in ourselves like our breathing (am I breathing too loudly?), our heartbeat (is it beating too fast?), our hearing (everything sounds muffled), our sight (is the light dark or am I slowly going blind?), we’re constantly checking our weight (am I losing weight too quickly?), that pimple on our face suddenly feels like a serious symptom (should I check with a doctor?), our temperature has been slightly higher than normal in the last few days and there’s a dull pain in our heads (am I dying?).
Time
We will constantly be hitting the replay button and going through our past mistakes over and over and over again, in painful detail, trying to figure out where we went wrong, possibly blaming ourselves.
We also feel pressed for time and try to get things done long before we actually need to get things done. This is done to the point where we’re not managing our time effectively to ensure that we get enough breaks. It’s really just us throwing ourselves into tasks, one after another, ploughing our way through and trying to make sure everything is done as accurately as possible before time is up. This usually results in us crashing and burning.
Work
When it comes to actually doing work, we spend an awful lot of time trying to perfect it and getting stuck at every single detail which wastes time and only sends us down further into the depths of our inferior function. We become scarily neurotic when it comes to completing our tasks and how we go about doing it. Interestingly, this aspect of the Si-grip is actually very difficult to notice from the outside. Other people will usually just see a person who is working hard, ensuring everything is accurate and relevant while also keeping themselves neat and organised. This couldn’t be further from the truth.
Constantly overthinking and worrying about ourselves actually has a huge negative impact on our mental health which is why a lot of Ne-doms who have experienced an Si-grip will associate it with depression. It really takes a toll on our minds and drives us insane.
How do you end up in an Si-grip?
Stress is the common answer with any type and their rendezvous with their inferior function.
If an Ne-dom is thrown into an extremely stressful situation, they might just let their Si take over control. Precisely what counts as a ‘stressful situation’ depends purely on the individual. We all differ and difference scenarios will elicit varied responses.
However, from my own experience, as well as other Ne-doms I know, I’ve noticed that situations where Ne becomes useless is usually perceived as a stressful situation and inferior Si will usually insert itself and take over. So this can include situations like constant routine, repetition, restrictions, limitations, overwhelming workload for long periods of time, negative reactions to ideas or progress, so on and so forth.
How to get out of an Si-grip?
Shift your attention outward.
Remember what I said about inferior Si directing attention towards yourself? Well, you’re going to want to change that so you can get your Ne back to doing what it does best.
Now, with an Si-grip, it can be extremely difficult to want to spend time with others. Our inferior function keeps us withdrawn and in solitude when it’s unhealthy, but it’s extremely important to interact with others and your environment during this time. People are great because you can just listen to them and start bouncing ideas back and forth. Look at that. Ne is back in action! If people are bit too ambitious for you at the moment, look towards your surroundings for inspiration. Remember that time you wanted to learn how to crochet? Well, now’s the prime time to do so! Gardening? Now you’re talking.
During my Si-grip, I forced myself to sign up for volunteering at local schools. I would talk to young children for a few hours at a time, play games with them, create crafts and read stories with them. I ended up really enjoying it and it helped reignite my Ne because I was focusing on other people and other activities rather than myself.
All you need is to take a step forward and get your Ne spark back.
Talk to someone.
Spending some quality time with your inferior function isn’t always fun. If there’s someone you trust, like a family member, a friend or a teacher, talk to them. It helps to have some support while you’re trying to improve yourself, and it can make things a lot easier. And if you’ve got an Ne-friend, why not tag along with them? It’s all about getting that creative fire back.
How to develop a healthy Si?
Realise the importance of Si. Although it’s at odds with Ne, my inferior Si has proved to be extremely beneficial once I overcame my Si-grip.
ENTPs, in particular, are notorious for being known as the type who will throw themselves into a project and completely forget about basic needs such as food and sleep. Ne-doms are also likely to have issues with indecisiveness, unpredictability and being overly ambitious with our work ethic.
A lot of this is because we are somewhat detached from our own selves. This would explain why we find it so easy to mess around and not take things too seriously and overlook our physical, cognitive and emotional needs.
It’s important to understand that Si is not meant to limit or restrict us. It’s there to help keep us from drifting completely off course. It gives us a sense of belonging and an awareness of ourselves, allowing us to make better decisions and prioritise when paired with our Ti.
In it’s healthier state, inferior Si helps to refine our big and bright ideas by taking past experiences into account. (You might not want to do that, ENTP. Remember what happened the last time you tried to do something like that?)
It’s the voice of reason that reminds us that we’re tired as fuck and should probably pause that ridiculous project and take a nap.
It keeps us grounded and stops us jumping from one spot to another like a goddamn bouncy ball.
It helps to introduce a sense of routine in our life and, while Ne is running the show, it still gives us the space and freedom to explore our creative ideas from a safe place.
Related: What is an Ne-Fe loop like?
Edgar Valden 4w5 ISFP
[[16 September 2020
Originally written as a comment thread on PDB]]
While we all seem to agree that Edgar is undoubtedly a 4, it seems that there has been some debate over his wingtype; based on the newly released information for him, I would argue that Edgar is a clear example of a 4w5. In fact, his enneatype also feeds into the disagreement over his MBTI (and vice versa).
To begin, here is a direct translation of his character summary, also featured as the brief description on this profile:
“The only son in the Valden family of aristocrats, Edgar showed an interest and high talent in painting from childhood. Praise from his family and the public has led to his eccentric character. His perception of the world around him led to his belief that nobody else is worthy to speak to him about art.”
Harukawa Maki 6w5 - Reconsidering Type
[[02 September 2020
Originally written as a comment thread on PDB]]
That makes a lot of sense, and would explain the confusion between base 5 or base 6 for Maki. With any character who has a particularly strong wing, the core and wing can be difficult to distinguish; having it repeat in her tritype could definitely make that problem even more pronounced. That, along with a Te-Se loop from her ENTJ type would make many of her behaviors seem to favor her 5 over her 6, even if 6 is her core.
Mike Morton Chaotic Neutral
[[28 August 2020
Originally written as a comment thread on PDB]]
I don’t understand where the chaotic good votes are coming from. While he is working toward a goal that is considered “good”, it is his behavior and methods of achieving it that truly indicate his alignment. First it is important to note that at its core, the chaotic alignments are all concerned with personal freedom, and at first glance, chaotic neutral can be mistaken for chaotic good or chaotic evil, depending on their individual motivations. Due to this, it’s best to examine the character’s behavior at their baseline, then supplement it with information about the character under duress.
Mike Morton 7w6
[[28 August 2020
Originally written as a comment thread on PDB]]
I will admit that I did a double take seeing the consensus vote on Mike’s enneatype. I had thought it rather plain to see that he is a base type 7, but apparently that is not the case. Perhaps his career as a performer is what caused the mistype, but it’s still strange to imagine a type 3 Mike. (I also got a bit of a chuckle out of seeing Mike voted as chaotic good when he’s clearly a chaotic neutral character. More on that in its own thread.)
As a character with a full set of deduction targets, several costumes, and accessories, there is an abundance of information on Mike’s character that I feel is vital in discerning his true enneatype. From his deductions alone, it’s quite obvious that he cares less about personal image or professional success than he does about trying new things and having a good time. Especially the parts of the deduction tree written from Mike’s first person perspective, it’s obvious that image and career is a secondary consideration, tied more to the 7’s desire to be entertaining than from the 3’s desire to maintain a “good image”.
Keep reading
tl;dr
Mike is a near-textbook example of a 7, with little to none of the 3’s characteristic concern with public image or external praise and material rewards. His interest in serving his own emotional needs and little else shows the 7’s compulsive thrill-seeking and future planning to avoid dealing with fear or anxiety.
His 6 wing manifests in the secretive side of his nature, and his attempts to accomplish his goals through discreet maneuverings. He avoids conflict and confrontation, when possible, again supporting a 6 wing rather than an 8. After the death of his fellow circus members, Mike disintegrates into a 1, exchanging the 7’s scattered energy for a tunnel-vision focus on self-righteous retribution.
Additional support, append:
I’m disappointed that I was unable to include all the relevant quotes from Mike’s skins and accessories, as they didn’t quite fit into the flow of the main analysis. I have included them here as additional support, though I’ll admit it is redundant. At this point, it’s mainly for myself; I really wanted to touch on these points, at least in brief.
Mike Morton 7w6
[[28 August 2020
Originally written as a comment thread on PDB]]
I will admit that I did a double take seeing the consensus vote on Mike’s enneatype. I had thought it rather plain to see that he is a base type 7, but apparently that is not the case. Perhaps his career as a performer is what caused the mistype, but it’s still strange to imagine a type 3 Mike. (I also got a bit of a chuckle out of seeing Mike voted as chaotic good when he’s clearly a chaotic neutral character. More on that in its own thread.)
As a character with a full set of deduction targets, several costumes, and accessories, there is an abundance of information on Mike’s character that I feel is vital in discerning his true enneatype. From his deductions alone, it’s quite obvious that he cares less about personal image or professional success than he does about trying new things and having a good time. Especially the parts of the deduction tree written from Mike’s first person perspective, it’s obvious that image and career is a secondary consideration, tied more to the 7’s desire to be entertaining than from the 3’s desire to maintain a “good image”.
Keep reading
tl;dr
Mike is a near-textbook example of a 7, with little to none of the 3’s characteristic concern with public image or external praise and material rewards. His interest in serving his own emotional needs and little else shows the 7’s compulsive thrill-seeking and future planning to avoid dealing with fear or anxiety.
His 6 wing manifests in the secretive side of his nature, and his attempts to accomplish his goals through discreet maneuverings. He avoids conflict and confrontation, when possible, again supporting a 6 wing rather than an 8. After the death of his fellow circus members, Mike disintegrates into a 1, exchanging the 7’s scattered energy for a tunnel-vision focus on self-righteous retribution.
Mike Morton 7w6
[[28 August 2020
Originally written as a comment thread on PDB]]
I will admit that I did a double take seeing the consensus vote on Mike’s enneatype. I had thought it rather plain to see that he is a base type 7, but apparently that is not the case. Perhaps his career as a performer is what caused the mistype, but it’s still strange to imagine a type 3 Mike. (I also got a bit of a chuckle out of seeing Mike voted as chaotic good when he’s clearly a chaotic neutral character. More on that in its own thread.)
As a character with a full set of deduction targets, several costumes, and accessories, there is an abundance of information on Mike’s character that I feel is vital in discerning his true enneatype. From his deductions alone, it’s quite obvious that he cares less about personal image or professional success than he does about trying new things and having a good time. Especially the parts of the deduction tree written from Mike’s first person perspective, it’s obvious that image and career is a secondary consideration, tied more to the 7’s desire to be entertaining than from the 3’s desire to maintain a “good image”.
Luca Balsa Chaotic Good
[[29 August 2020
Originally written as a comment thread on PDB]]
I may have been a bit hasty in voting Luca as a chaotic neutral character. After careful consideration, I have tentatively changed my vote to chaotic good. Certainly, how one interprets the fatal lab accident will influence the conclusion regarding Luca’s alignment. My thoughts may change once his deduction targets have been released. However, with all currently available information, this is what I have concluded:
The chief principle of the chaotic neutral is that self interest comes before all else; personal freedom justifies acts both good or evil. Often, this can lead to contradictory behavior and earn a reputation of flightiness and unreliability. The chaotic good, on the other hand, is interested in individual freedom, but also believes in being kind or helpful to others. While both of these alignments can be seen by others as selfish, the chaotic neutral is more interested in their own amusement or self-advancement than in “playing nice” with others.
A large part of why I think Luca leans slightly more good than neutral is that, across translations, he is described as being friendly a man who, while displaying pride and confidence, is also considerate of the ideas of those around him. Moreover, he is considered “too trusting” by others, indicating that he may make himself available to people (whether it be emotionally, socially, or otherwise) who may not necessarily be deserving of it. This falls in line with the chaotic good’s view of the essential goodness in others, and the subsequent desire to offer help to those around them even if it doesn’t offer any reward.