It's Plurbin Time

A Pluribus blog because this show broke my brain.

[plurbintime]

Carol Sturka: EVERYONE, WE HAVE TO FIX THE WORLD, WE HAVE TO SAVE THESE PEOPLE

Other Survivors: Um, you're being kind of aggressive. Have you even talked to them?

*fast forward 40+ days*

Manuosos Oviedo: MY NAME IS MANUOSOS OVIEDO. I AM NOT ONE OF THEM. I WISH TO SAVE THE WORLD

Carol Sturka: Um, you're being kind of aggressive. Have you even talked to them?

[maryland77]

everytime you call carol sturka a karen, a lesbian dies, think about that

[kendrysaneela]

Can’t stop thinking about this. Like they literally got Zosia to start dressing in Helen’s clothes. Carol didn’t stand a CHANCE

[rainbow-femme]

I love how Pluribus handles the hive mind with them not being evil or malicious and instead makes them terrifying while being genuinely benevolent, especially by making the parallel to conversion therapy camps

They love you as a concept but need you to fundamentally change who you are, they believe so strongly that their way of existing is the correct and happiest way that they will violate your autonomy to force it on you for your own good, they will create an environment where existing as yourself is miserable and then point out how miserable you are and if you want to be happy you just have to become like them, they can be so loving and caring and get to know you so well and open up about themselves and seem to connect with you only to act the exact same way with other people they’re trying to convert and reinforcing this idea that you aren’t special and don’t matter as a person, they will shower you with love and affection when you follow their rules and then cut you off completely when you don’t and use the fact that they control the source of all human connection and love as a tool of control

[carolsturka]

sorry but i think it's hot that carol almost killed zosia multiple times, then proceeded to use her body for sex & affection when it was convenient. and it's even hotter how terrified she is of asking deeper questions about the former zosia, while simultaneously fetishizing the bits of her past the hive allows her to have. like doesn't everybody else think this is sexy? what show are we watching

[obsessivedaydreamer]

losing my MIND

[lesbianwitchvampires]

What's cool about Helen is that we keep learning new things about her that push against our tendency to idealise the dead. On the level of "oh, things were Complicated": the kinda-reductive way she thought about Wycaro, how she couldn't make it through even half of Bitter Chrysalis but lied for Carol's sake. On the level of "yikes, but I do feel for her and don't know what I would've done in her shoes, but yikes": installing the alcohol cabinet monitor close to fifteen years ago and, in all the time since, never telling Carol. All these reveals made us uncomfortable, and debate amongst ourselves, and that's the point. Helen was complicated and flawed; their marriage was complicated and flawed. But imo that doesn't make her less lovable or her marriage less beautiful or her death less impactful. Instead, it makes her more compelling. It elevates her character above the typical--often objectifying and misogynistic--Angelic Dead Wife trope.

[carolsturka]

"[Manousos] is one of the first people that's just staring at her, and even in the language barrier she can see that he can see that [Carol] is lying [to herself]." - Rhea Seehorn.

[tapacamino]

Definitely not a fan of the way some people bash Helen. "She was just as manipulative as the hive!"

Where are you getting this from? Because she put a sensor in the liquor cabinet? Are you really saying this is equivalent to an entity that erases all human free will, identity and culture and starves humans of all contact until they succumb to trusting it? Be FFR right now.

[gay-manousos-truther]

for me, I like to draw a comparison between Helen and the Hive not to equate the two (that would be like coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb lmao), but just to point out that what drives the Hive to do what they do (even accounting for their biological imperative) is similar to how people in real life would violate each other’s consent out of love

what Helen did was 100% a violation of Carol’s privacy and autonomy - there’s a reason why Carol’s first assumption was that the sensor was the Hive’s doing instead of hers

what Helen did was also 100% driven by her love for Carol, and her concern for both their future and the future of their unborn child. there is a version of their future where they do have that child, and Helen eventually admits to what she did, and Carol would likely come to agree that what she did was for the best

it’s a choice that came from her deep understanding of who Carol is from decades of knowing her, in extremely stark contrast to Carol’s mom putting her through conversion therapy, which came from a fundamental misunderstanding of who Carol is and what she wants

this sort of gray area is something all of us will sooner or later encounter in our lives. is it wrong to monitor the finances of an aging parent who’s terrible at handling money without their knowledge? is it wrong to look through your child’s search history when you can see that they’re suffering in silence but they refuse to talk to you?

the truth is that, on some level, we violate each other’s consent out of love all the time. I think the question the show wants to ask is when this should be acceptable, and when it shouldn’t be

[theythembutch]

Noticed this parallel and think it's interesting to see Carol having kinda gotten this and then forgotten it in the midst of Everything (trauma, isolation, her only companionship coming from the hive) and Manousos being able to articulate it so clearly!

[birdplushie]

something i love about carol and manousos both is that they want to save the world, but not because either of them has anyone (left) in their own lives to save that they're doing this for. there is nothing really in it for them personally, nothing for them to earn except their normal lives back (neither of which seem like they were entirely fulfilling, and in carol's case will be incredibly lonely now that helen is gone). they simply care about humanity as a whole, despite clearly not feeling very connected to it, and they believe it's the right thing to do (though part of it is also out of fear for themselves. no person is 100% selfless in their motivation). manousos believing everyone has had their souls stolen and wanting to give them back, carol simply horrified first at people having their autonomy taken away and then later that they're all going to starve to death. they both see the wrongness and immediately believe something needs to be done about it, even though i don't think either of them ever really wanted to play hero. but it's a role they take up out of necessity, because nobody else will

[tapacamino]

Making my own post because I don't wanna take away from OP's. I do agree that "Manousos should have been a butch lesbian himself because then he could be the actual Raban Carol wants instead of a fake one" is a god tier take, and very romantic, buuut...

I *like* that he is a man because then the focus is on friendship, and I cannot tell you how badly I've wanted a male and female friendship on television that doesn't have an undercurrent of "will they get together." Especially because for *years* I've had to see straight men whine that "men can't just be friends anymore!" whenever people ship M/M. Yet these same guys never argue that men and women can't be friends in television. They always assume it will end in a sexual relationship.

Back to the Raban thing, though.

I *do* think he's her Raban. "Proud, haughty Raban." Just not one she is sexually attracted to. Because sometimes someone can be your soul mate without being your romantic partner. Sometimes your friends give you something your partner can't. Which is healthy! Because no one should put all their eggs in one basket. I think once the cul de sac fills up with the other immune, Carol will feel more whole. She'll get there kicking and screaming, but she'll feel more whole.

[madameandromeda]

Stursia + love languages.

[iconseries]

[sleepymarmot]

Carol's fear of causing harm to Joined humans made her more similar to them. The principle of pacifistic non-interference has paralyzed her just like it paralyzed them. The hive refuses to kill animals and even harvest plants in order to keep themselves alive. Carol is horrified by the idea of triggering seizures in order to test how the hive operates and eventually keep herself free and cure them too.

Manousos warned the hive before his experiment, but that only limited the harm, not removed it. How many people were in the middle of something that couldn't be safely stopped in seconds? How many people didn't survive a seizure that lasted who knows how many minutes and left even the healthy Zosia dehydrated and disoriented? And yet the information he gained was the first bit of progress in weeks.

The hive's biological imperative to maintain and spread itself overrides all of its other values. Carol will need to find a balance between principles and pragmatism in order to keep up with them. I guess if you finally decide that keeping your hands clean is not your first priority anymore, getting your own atom bomb is a pretty clear way to announce it?

[kendrysaneela]

Yeah I think Carol and Manousos will have to find a balance between Manousos like big bold let’s do whatever it takes and Carol’s but we can’t put anyone at risk again. Because I think Carol is also affected by the one time she did try an experiment and it almost killed Zosia

[warningsine]

[kendrysaneela]

I love that every interview Karolina and Carlos-Manuel have about Pluribus they get into an argument about their different interpretations of the show it’s like actually watching Zosia and Manousos interact 😂

[whogirl42]

@kendrysaneela omg how dare you leave this in the tags this is gold😂