Teeth

PTSD dissociative subtype ⛧ punk is a political subculture ⛧

[hazedxg0]

I think one thing people don't understand when it comes to SzPD (and avolition more broadly) is that just because someone is doing something doesn't mean they actually want to do that thing.

I've tried to explain to therapists and such that at any given time, I don't want to do anything. I don't have any long term goals, and I don't have the drive to do any of the things normal people tend to centre their lives around (i.e. having a successful career, travelling, starting a family). If I had it my way I would never do anything at all. I wouldn't even exist.

And yet every single time the response I get is "But you're working this job! You're studying this thing! You're doing this hobby!" as if that's some kind of undeniable proof that I actually do have desires and goals. But the real reason is I simply don't have a choice. You can't just not work in the world we live in.

If I were to just not get a job, I would have to deal with not having food or utilities or home, which would force me into more things I don't want to do. And so if I have to have a job, I'll pick whatever I'm best at and is the least mind-numbing. That's not because I'm actually super passionate about that thing, I'm just picking the option that I don't want to do the least.

I don't really feel that strongly about hobbies and such, but unfortunately I am a human being who can't survive off of literally zero stimulation 24/7. I just pick the things that sustain my attention the most, it doesn't mean that I'm passionate about them. Again, I'm just going with whatever I don't want to do the least. And even then I spend most of my free time not engaging with said "hobbies".

By that point they normally just default to "Well, you haven't killed yourself yet, so that must mean something!" but it really, really doesn't. Killing myself is way more effort and discomfort for something that isn't even guaranteed to work.

The only way you could literally do nothing is if you just sat in a room and starved to death, which would be incredibly painful and incredibly boring. It's much easier to just passively go along with the flow, which involves doing things and participating in society. That doesn't mean I actually want to do it. It just means it's the option that takes the least effort.

[aw-tysm]

Some autistics have an odd view on what a special interest within autism actually is, and it's a very damaging take.

Special interests within autism can cause clinically significant impairments in one's life.

Special interests can borderline obsession and addiction and compulsion. They can even run inline with addiction, obsession, and compulsion.

Special interests aren't always knowing everything about it, researching it, and infodumping, or engaging in it in multiple ways.

Sometimes autistics don't know much about them, some will not research them, some autistics won't infodump about them. Some autistics only every engage in their interest in a very restricted and fixated way, a very limited way.

I honestly think some autistics get special interests and hobbies mixed up. You are allowed to have hobbies you are very passionate about, love to talk about, and have a vast knowledge on them. There are many allistics in this world who have hobbies just like that and with such an intensity.

Special interests for autistics aren't always cute and quirky and fun. They can be damaging and impairing, and cause stress/anxiety. They can be inappropriate, dangerous, or bad.

[rottenteeth]

My experience with being autistic is that it fucking sucks all the time 24/7.

Just had a meltdown because I'm at my parents since college is on break and the spoon I use all the time has been gone for a few weeks and now the other spoon I started using is missing. I just wanted ice cream and instead I hit myself in the head and cried silently in my room.

If your autism gives you joy, that's cool, but let's not pretend everyone experiences autistic joy and in anyway likes their autism. My life is 20x harder because of this shit. I can't drive, can't work, can't make friends, can't date, barely shower, barely brush my teeth, and apparently I cant just use a different fucking spoon without crying!!!!!!

But yeah sometimes I flap my hands when I'm excited how cute uwu neurospicy baby 🥺🥺.

I'm a grown fucking man who has a neurodevelopmental disability. You think I like flapping my hands? You think it doesn't make me feel like I'm 5 fucking years old every single time?

Disabilities are disabilities and they fucking suck. If you can find joy in a deeply disabling disorder I am very happy for you, but please remember some of us have higher support needs and our lives are greatly affected by it. I shouldn't have to see people basically mocking this very lonely disorder just because they don't like the texture of velvet or making eye contact.

Rant over, please be mindful of your wording and intentions with posts, jokes, comics, etc etc etc.

[rottenteeth]

Wishing there was more research on epochal divisions in DID.

I suspect (know) I experience this phenomenon and I have months and months of severe dissociation from the start of old parts going dormant/latent and the start and full formation of new parts.

Not only are the experiences in the months affected by this severe dissociation not readily integrated into my sense of self but all past experiences/memories are basically alien to me or are forgotten and not reaccessed by any part until they can be recompartmentalized.

It resembles severe depression when it happens but I just lose my personality because past experiences are being sorted through and my brain is determining where they should be placed now. It's like mass reorganization, these parts should do this so they need to have have [x] memories. This is my best guess for what happens in these dissociated months.

I just want research done on this, new modern research so I can have an explanation for this that doesn't sound like I'm on some endo system reset bullshit. I don't choose these new alters, I have dozens and dozens of latent (or occasionally reformed) parts all from very specific periods in my life. I have no control over this and they don't immediately form. I know it's vaugely documented by Kluft by I haven't been able to find much else surrounding these divisions.

I just want actual and substantial medical documentation of this experience among systems. It isn't clear if these epochal divisions can only happen in DID and not OSDD or if it only happens in "polyfragmented" systems, which are also not well documented and there's no clear medical consensus of what polyfragmented really even means.

[thehyperspacesystem]

how we conceptualize our parts

I read a paper about adapting Schema Therapy for DID that tries to do away with the concept of alters/dissociative parts and instead conceptualizes parts as different schemas in terms of schema therapy.

This got me thinking about how I actually conceptualize my parts, it occurs to me that this might be different to the way most of Tumblr conceptualizes their parts. In fact I am probably in the minority for even using the term parts. We like it as it is more recovery-orientated than other terms.

We do not consider ourselves separate people in one body. We don't even really consider ourselves people as such. Collectively, we are a human.

We are different ways this human can experience the world, different lenses through which this human can look if you like.

the same thing looks different through a different lens, and indeed different parts do experience the same things very differently.

A few of us have a distinct sense of self, but this is not something that is particularly pronounced in our system.

We do experience amnesia between parts, but this is where it gets weird. While we do have the part A remembers something and Part B doesn't know about it or have memory of that experience that you're all familiar with it, often things are not so neat and tidy for us.

Memories sometimes pass between parts, sometimes i'll be co-conscious with another part and then that part will leave with my memories and I won't be able to remember what I was doing. That fits in with the theory of structural dissociation OK.

But I experience other things that don't really.

There is a general dissociative soup of memories that don't really belong to any part, I think they actually belong to the body. Sometimes memories end up in there. Sometimes they get lost, other times they intrude on all parts.

and sometimes, usually after a lot of communication, we can remember the experience of what it is like to be another part. To see the world through their lens.

The "multiple people in one body" way of conceptualizing parts that seems popular on tumblr has never sat right with me because the boundaries of us are a little bit more fuzzy than that, that and I never seem to know who's fronting anymore. If we were actually separate people, wouldn't we always know who was here?

At some point I will research more about Schema Therapy and try to work out how parts would be conceptualized in terms of Schemas. I don't want to dismiss it before understanding it.

[rottenteeth]

Unfortunate side effect of this whole dissociation thing is actually that I am not a fully cohesive human. I have the pre programmed answers to what my hobbies are: painting, sewing, drawing, video games. I have not done the three former in many months.

No I don't remember that thing I said when I was twelve or thirteen or fourteen or fifteen, no I don't remember that, wait when did that happen, oh really I don't remember that, haha that's so funny that I said that I don't even remember, oh I think I might remember that, oh I don't know why I was upset, are you sure that happened, what do you mean you remember that from when we were eight?

I am always disconnected from myself, each of my parts are me, it is a lonely lonely experience to not even be able to trust yourself because you're always conflicted and avoidant in order to not address the fact that your brain actually can't integrate all parts of your personality properly.

I do not have friends in my head, I do not have headmates, and I sure as fuck don't have sysmates. I have a fragmented identity and my memories and experiences and beliefs are scattered and weirdly compartmentalized.

There are no people in my head, I am the only one in my head and I can't even fully know myself because my brain can't fucking combine my stupid fucking experiences.

Whatever, who gives a fuck, build an alter, force a split, mold a fragment into an introject, indulge in dramatized views of your alters, fully believe that you're friends with that fictional character, ignore the feeling of emptiness in your chest, dissociate from your reality, deny your actions, never think about how wrong you always feel because each of your consciousnesses are missing integral parts of the human experience.

Tell that small child that they don't deserve to be whole.

Who gives a fuck?

[rottenteeth]

Hey, hi, hello since I'm currently experiencing this here are a couple other ways "blackout" amnesia may present other than "waking up" somewhere!

-Completely losing a memory that moments ago was completely accessible. The memory is irretrievable and you cannot remember actually remembering it (where you were, what you were doing, etc when you were thinking about it). You know you had a memory about something a minute ago and now you have no idea what it was about, who was in it, when it happened, if it was good or bad, or any other information other than there was a memory™. The only time you remember this memory is when the alter(s) who holds this memory is fronting.

-Something happening earlier in the day (maybe even week!!) and then when you try to think back to it, even though you know that it happened, you have no idea what "it" is and there is just a blank space in your mind. Yes even if you remembered it earlier that minute/hour/day. Just a sense that something™ occured and that you previously knew what it™ was. There is no blurriness or sense of what actually happened, there is nothing where you know something should theoretically be. This could also be gradual, the memory slowly slips away until it doesn't exist in the current part's memory. You likely remember the before and after but cannot retrieve it even with prompting.

You may not realize a blackout occured because [part a] remembers everything including the memory or experience that [part b] forgot. While [part b] remembers everything [part a] remembers besides that memory or experience. This may create the illusion of a singular, but forgetful, experience of life.

[Part a] may even remember that [part b] forgot without realizing it was [part b] and not [part a]. [Part b] may subsequently forget that [part a] remembered said event. [Part b] thinks they're just forgetful since they know they (but actually [part a]) at one point could easily recall the memory.

Let's call it a localized or selective blackout (depending on what memories and how much is missing.) You're not waking up anywhere but one or more parts of you are completely missing a memory that can be recalled in another state of consciousness. The memory isn't blurry, it's isn't emotionally detached, it isn't a series of screenshots and vibes, it's absolutely nothing. You will (probably) remember everything before and after the gap (or maybe some random events surrounding it but not that/those specific memories) That's what separates it from a greyout in my mind.

For me I have certain memories in one state and certain in another but there is overlap in other daily memories making it seem as if I am only forgetting those memories because they are not in the front of my mind/have no reason to be recalled. I usually only figure this out after multiple times of losing and then recalling a memory. Often times (not always) the part of me that remembers it will also remember forgetting it (and will likely wonder how I even forgot it in the first place.)

I can also find this out if another part does not remember it when the same thing that triggers the memory 100% of the time for another part is present. This usually has to happen multiple times for me to realize that a memory doesn't transfer. However, I can never remember which memories are compartmentalized and not fully accessible at all times (mostly because I don't track parts or switches) but also likely because if I do not hold a memory at a time I won't remember I forgot it.

If you have a lot of shared daily and autobiographal information between parts blackouts can easily slip through the cracks because you're not really waking up anywhere. The blackouts can also absolutely be retrograde, your brain may say that an experience that one part of you experienced actually needs to only be remembered by another part and then boom, you no longer remember this thing and likely have no reason to think back to it to even realize you don't have it anymore.

This is not to undermine the seriousness of blackouts where an individual does wake up in strange areas or days later. This is just to show how blackouts can occur within DID in order to make the disorder undetectable. The brain is great at filling in gaps.

This post is only relevant if we're saying blackouts are anytime that a memory is completely forgotten by one or more parts, not specifically talking about full generalized amnesia between parts/during switches.

[papayajuan2019]

you remind me of this memory i never had

[thickramen]

i hate hate hate how parts language is so demonized.

my alters are not people. they are parts of me. and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that!

i wish more people would be understanding and accepting of others using language that aligns with how this condition literally works.

[dissociativefreak]

I don't think it's discussed enough how dissociative amnesia, specifically surrounding childhood memories, can influence you to hoard physical objects. Even when they seem meaningless or hold no specific memories, they become anchors for you to a self you have lost.

For example, I have about ten folders from my early school days sitting in my room. I never look at them. I don't recall anything inside of them, and I have no nostalgia for the work inside, but a large part of me is terrified to throw them away. In my head, to do so would feel like I was losing a part of my life—a part that though I can't remember, I desperately wish to get back.

These objects are useless to me now, but they were once cherished by my younger self, meticulously created. They are my connection to the thoughts and feelings of my past that I have lost to this disorder. I am constantly looking for evidence of who I was—what signs of abuse I gave, how I acted, how I felt. I will never know what I looked like, inside or out. So, I use these meaningless relics to substitute tangible answers, hoping that one day they might re-ignite the childhood joy they once held.

[phantomrose96]

Dealing with burnout is sooooooooooooooo easy all you need to do is operate at 40% indefinitely and be kind of mad at yourself the whole time.

[deafandbewildered]

Sometimes I think about how bad things were when I was pro endo. I was under the impression I was splitting nearly daily, I thought that I had hundreds of parts because any identity confusion was seen as an alter rather than a symptom of PTSD. Worsened dissociative barriers were desirable so that alters seemed like more of their own people and not having an innerworld was seen as though I was doing something wrong for my system. I had people try to convince me that I could be a gateway system if I tried hard enough and then I could “go visit” other people. It was encouraged to make fragments form into actualized parts rather than doing the early work to integrate that fragment

Being pro endo as a real cdd system will fuck you over for the long run. These people don’t care about you or making sure you get better, they care about role playing with you.

[deafandbewildered]

I think what baffles me about endogenics and their related circles is the obsession with escapism and how it’s validated. In any other instance wanting to change your entire self in order to be accepted into an “in group” would be seen as wildly unhealthy and yet these groups claim it’s not only fine, but non disordered.

[rottenteeth]

You are not your source. Those characters are not your friends. You are inhibiting your recovery. You are feeding into your lack of connection to reality and fantastical thinking. You can and are making yourself delusional if you didn't already have a pathological introject you are providing the perfect mindset for one.

[proudfictive]

It is arrogant and ableist to call someone delusional simply because they are a fictive.

Dissociative disorders do not involve delusions or fantastical thinking, and many plurals are non-disordered to begin with. Delusions are nowhere in the diagnostic criteria for DID or OSDD-1b. You are thinking of schizophrenia.

But people with schizophrenia shouldn't be treated this way either. Stay in your own damn lane and let fictives live our lives in peace.

[rottenteeth]

It's crazy that I never said that.

When you start fully believing you ARE a character and associating yourself with other characters from source media to the point of having extreme reactions to not being able to interact with them you are heavily dissociating to the point of delusion.

Fictives are not their source, fictives are real things no one ever said otherwise. Dissociative Identity disorder is literally based on the minds ability to pretend it is something that it is not and to pretend that things are not happening to someone. dissociation is the disconnect from oneself and it absolutely can and does cause delusions about who one actually is and their reality especially in regard to introjects. Delusions are not bad but I don't know what else to call someone fully believing they are a character when in an alternate state of consciousness BECAUSE of their own doing i.e. treating a fictive exactly like their source, acting as if a character is taking over their body, etc. that absolutely is delusional territory and I'm tired of people pretending it isn't.

Also one Google search shows many many studies on delusional thinking in dissociative disorders, it is not in the criteria but it is heavily documented. You can't compartmentalize your memories so severely and develop different personality states without having the ability to disconnect from reality which is the perfect breeding ground for delusions.

I experience delusions and have experienced intense delusions when I had introjects, that's nothing to be ashamed of, but people online encourage and normalize these things and it is absolutely harmful to individuals with dissociative disorders, especially young ones like the people on Tumblr.

Please please understand that delusions are not bad nor do I judge individuals for experience such symptoms, I am just tired of them being heavily encouraged. Unless it is for the safety of someone it should not be encouraged for them to engage in their dissociation/delusions so severely. Constantly asking someone about source memories, engaging with introjects from another system with the same source in a way that encourages disconnect, and considering an introject to literally be that character is harmful. This is all assuming that an individual is not currently being traumatized, that they did not start out with an introject that had no connection to the life of the individual, and that all the other factors that would make it necessary for one to have an alternate state of consciousness that fully believes it is a character are not present.

[proudfictive]

As I said, this attitude is extremely ableist and unnecessarily judgmental.

Fictives are real and not a delusion. I would know -- I'm a fictive, and I also have delusions. My delusions, believe it are not, are completely separate from my identity as a fictive. I can easily tell these two experiences apart.

Why do you think that having a delusion is a negative thing? Why are you using "delusional" as an insult? Even if my identity *was* a delusion, that doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve to be respected.

I can't find the source for this, but I remember reading that fictives have been documented in psychiatric literature from as early as the 1980s.

It is 2025. Time to take fictives seriously.

[rottenteeth]

Least believable rage bait

[proudfictive]

Okay, if you're not saying that fictives aren't completely real as they are -- including their source memories, source friends, and exotrauma -- and you're not saying that being delusional is a bad thing, what *are* you saying?

Why do you feel the need to give fictives condescending advice and tell us to get help for our delusions?

[rottenteeth]

Introjects are real alter types, the brain takes aspects of an already formed character to project memories, experiences, and opinions onto, maybe because it believes if it were that character it would be happier or able to handle a situation better. Children often have stronger examples of the thoughts that would cause this:"If I were a T-Rex I could be stronger than [abuser]" or "That's not happening to me that's happening to [evil cartoon character] so they deserve it"

When introjects come into the picture and they begin to fully engrose themselves in the idea that they are a completely separate person with a completely separate life from you, the dissociation gets worse. It is YOUR brain telling you that you are this character when you enter a different state of consciousness. You are not literally that character nor do you actually have any of their experiences.

Alters are not different people, treating them as such even without fictives in the mix can be borderline delusional depending on how severe it is. The brain wants you to fully believe something that is not true so that it can protect itself. A delusion is a false belief or perception. Simple as that. When one of the parts of your brain fully believes that it is a fictional character that is a false perception. However, this is different from acknowledging that one of your alternate states identifies heavily with a fictional character because of [trauma, aspect of daily life, etc].

Now alters themselves are not delusions but often times alters perception of reality is not true. People with DID often have delusions that people are out to get them. These would be explained by the PTSD portion of the disorder. Delusions can be caused by a multitude of different factors and dissociation and trauma is one of them

The whole point of DID is to be able to function while being traumatized. It's hard to do that if you can always remember trauma. As a child you deny [bad thing] either it didn't happen period or it didn't happen to you. Either way you are distancing yourself from those experiences but by doing that you deny a part of you that your brain still knows about. So instead these memories become only accessible when a certain part of your brain is active. Eventually you will form opinions based on only this version of the world but it conflicts with your other more functional world views so the dissociation barriers become stronger to continue denying your own experience.

Introjects are a phenomenon that happen, but they aren't genuinely that character in anyway, it is you but the part of you that for some reasons needs the traits of that character to either hold trauma or function normally. In relation to exotrauma as you called it, that probably means the brain is using the experiences of a character to mask its own trauma while still having a place to put it. By associating its own trauma with the trauma of a fictional character it can continue to deny its own reality. DID is just a very long term and severe coping mechanism and trauma response that changes the way the brain functions. If it feels like it needs to be [character] to function, it is going to want to fully believe it is that character.

I am mostly concerned with individuals who engage heavily with other introjects or role players and who hold the belief that alters are fully separate individuals. You do not have [character] in your head, one of your dissociated states is a manifestation of [character]. That is a part of you that is disconnected from yourself and parts of objective reality that you as one individual experience.

DID is meant to make you feel like you haven't experienced certain things by putting those things in different places. Playing into the identity of an introject alter can become dangerous really fast, especially when you becomes distressed because you miss characters you have never met or can't look at yourself in the mirror.

I had an introject at one point many years ago and whenever I was in that alternate state I fully and genuinely believed that I was that character. I had false memories, I couldn't look at myself in the mirror, and I would genuinely sob because I could not meet "my friends". When I was not in that alternate state I thought it was so stupid that I was so distressed or sometimes I wouldn't even remember why I had been upset. I had to stop engaging with his streams, I had to stop engaging with his friends streams, I was delusional when I was in that alternate consciousness because my brain needed me to not associate myself with my life or experiences.

When having an introjected part causes severe distress because of personal perceptions and false beliefs it is likely because one is feeding into a disconnect from reality and oneself, which is just dissociation. It is basically dissociative induced delusions which don't sound crazy when you think about what dissociation is. It does impact quality of life and is not a desirable symptom, however having delusional thinking or delusions does not make someone morally inferior or worth less.

Introjects may be so connected to their source because the brain does need to escape from stress or needs to disavow a trauma holder. Introjects may form already severely connected to their idea of a character, however, I am mainly concerned with individuals whose introjects do not start off in a basically delusional state. I often see people trying to make their fictives feel more like [character] by constantly engaging with the media just so that their fictives develop more and actively allowing themselves (and maybe even being encouraged) to engage with what is basically roleplaying false memories with other introjects or kinnies.

Unless it is necessary to keep up dissociative barriers for the safety of an individual it is not really ideal for them to be feeding into their own disconnect from reality/themselves. Introjection is also often not full characters, it is usually the taking of certain traits that are adapted onto an existing fragment or a basis for a new part. I am not saying introjects are inherently delusional, I am saying some people engage with and actively indulge in their dissociative behaviors so much it pushes them over the edge to delusion.

I don't know about you but when I'm really dissociated I may disown my body because "it's not mine" and I consider that to be a delusion so how is an alter claiming to be a completely separate person with their own life before hand not in some way a dissociation induced delusion?

Having a fictive who you acknowledge as an alter ≠ having a fictive who fully believes they had certain experiences, have been taken from their old life, have personal connections with other characters, etc

I hope that makes sense.

All in all: alters are not delusions but often alters, even non introjected ones, have false beliefs or perceptions that are driven by dissociation and it is ideal to combat them to achieve a higher quality of life.

[proudfictive]

I understand that you may not be willing to hear me out here because of how I, admittedly, lost my reading comprehension when I was angry earlier.

However. If you are willing to listen, please understand that the psychiatric system is not perfect. It has been heavily criticized by many, including for pushing diagnoses onto marginalized people that were (and are) based on personal and societal biases.

For example, I am bisexual. In the past, the psychiatric system would have medicalized my sexual orientation -- seen it as a disorder, something to be fixed. Even more recently, the DSM was weaponized against transgender people, who had to receive a stigmatized psychiatric diagnosis in order to transition. In the more distant past, women were targeted.

Even today, the DSM is weaponized against people of color. For example, a person of color might receive a more severe or stigmatized diagnosis, while a white person with the same symptoms might be told they have something less stigmatized (or not receive a diagnosis at all).

The psychiatric system is just as biased as society at large is. And we live in a society that treats anyone disrespectfully who is different -- especially anyone who is seen as "crazy." Look at how plurals, and others who are seen as crazy, are viewed in popular culture.

I believe that this is why the diagnosis of DID exists. I think that the diagnosis is a product of psychiatric bias, just like "gender identity disorder" or "female hysteria." I don't think that plurals are all, necessarily, disordered, and I think that if society becomes more inclusive, we won't be.

That isn't to say that the framework of DID isn't helpful to some. I understand that it helps some people to view themselves and their systems this way, and I don't support taking that away from them. If seeing yourself as disordered, or as an alter or a part, is helpful to you, by all means, keep on doing it.

But not everyone has the same experience. I believe that some systems did all begin as one person who broke down into parts due to trauma. But many systems do not see ourselves this way.

I take a view of myself, and my system, that has been called "spiritual." I'm far from the only one who does. I believe that I, personally -- because I'm one of those people that you would say isn't a person, or is an introject -- am a real person. I died in another universe, a real place in the multiverse, and came here.

You will not be able to dissuade me from believing what I do about myself and the world at large. Just as you wouldn't be able to dissuade a Christian from believing that they have an eternal soul that will live on forever in Heaven.

Spiritual beliefs do not hurt anyone. Non-medicalized views of plurality do not hurt anyone. The psychiatric industry has shown, time and time again, that it reflects larger societal biases. I see no reason to trust that it is not doing so now.

In summary -- if you want to believe you are not a real person and your source memories aren't real, fine. That's your right. But if you push a medicalized viewpoint onto all other systems, and as forcefully as you have been doing, be prepared for pushback.

You are not the only one who has a right to have their deeply-held beliefs respected.

[rottenteeth]

Thank you for staying civil, and I do agree the DSM and ICD are responses against minority groups and the individuals who practice diagnosing disorders are not always up to date or may hold prejudice that has no place in a medical field.

Frankly I find your second to last paragraph to be incredibly offensive. Alters are not real people and source memories are not real memories. Individuals harm or kill themselves because they are encouraged to believe those things and become excessively delusional. I am one of those people, believing those memories were real and believing I was that person made my life so unbelievably painful because I still had enough of a connection to reality to know I was delusional. I struggle with psychosis and encouraging delusional thinking is such harmful rhetoric that I don't think you want to be promoting.

I'm prepared for push back, always have been, because I know individuals don't want to actually understand what having DID means, because it sure as hell isn't being multiple fully developed individual people, but believing that is what protects people from trauma.

If you find that experiencing your life as a spiritual person who personifies parts of themselves is desirable that's cool. However I do believe you are suffering from a delusion and may need help, but if you are able to function in day to day life, are not in danger of harming yourself because of it, and you do not desire help currently then that is okay. Please stay safe and if you begin experiencing hallucinations, other delusions, anhedonia, catatonia, or any other psychotic symptoms I really would recommend seeking therapy or a psychiatrist to assess the best course of treatment for you.

But individuals with DID do not "view their systems that way" that is the reality of what having non integrated dissociative parts is. DID is a dissociative trauma disorder, not something like homosexuality.

I believe there are individuals who are maybe more separated naturally but I would say that is in no way similar to actually having alters (which are alternate states of consciousness caused by dissociative barriers in the brain to prevent the crossing of traumatic memories and functional abilities)

I also often find most individuals who are religious fall into delusions more often or have delusional beliefs that are overly normalized. I do not think religion makes false beliefs or perceptions any less harmful.

Thank you for having this conversation, this is going to go nowhere further because you do not understand how life altering and destroying it is to have severe dissociation from childhood.

Have a good holiday if you celebrate any of the upcoming ones.

[rottenteeth]

You are not your source. Those characters are not your friends. You are inhibiting your recovery. You are feeding into your lack of connection to reality and fantastical thinking. You can and are making yourself delusional if you didn't already have a pathological introject you are providing the perfect mindset for one.

[proudfictive]

It is arrogant and ableist to call someone delusional simply because they are a fictive.

Dissociative disorders do not involve delusions or fantastical thinking, and many plurals are non-disordered to begin with. Delusions are nowhere in the diagnostic criteria for DID or OSDD-1b. You are thinking of schizophrenia.

But people with schizophrenia shouldn't be treated this way either. Stay in your own damn lane and let fictives live our lives in peace.

[rottenteeth]

It's crazy that I never said that.

When you start fully believing you ARE a character and associating yourself with other characters from source media to the point of having extreme reactions to not being able to interact with them you are heavily dissociating to the point of delusion.

Fictives are not their source, fictives are real things no one ever said otherwise. Dissociative Identity disorder is literally based on the minds ability to pretend it is something that it is not and to pretend that things are not happening to someone. dissociation is the disconnect from oneself and it absolutely can and does cause delusions about who one actually is and their reality especially in regard to introjects. Delusions are not bad but I don't know what else to call someone fully believing they are a character when in an alternate state of consciousness BECAUSE of their own doing i.e. treating a fictive exactly like their source, acting as if a character is taking over their body, etc. that absolutely is delusional territory and I'm tired of people pretending it isn't.

Also one Google search shows many many studies on delusional thinking in dissociative disorders, it is not in the criteria but it is heavily documented. You can't compartmentalize your memories so severely and develop different personality states without having the ability to disconnect from reality which is the perfect breeding ground for delusions.

I experience delusions and have experienced intense delusions when I had introjects, that's nothing to be ashamed of, but people online encourage and normalize these things and it is absolutely harmful to individuals with dissociative disorders, especially young ones like the people on Tumblr.

Please please understand that delusions are not bad nor do I judge individuals for experience such symptoms, I am just tired of them being heavily encouraged. Unless it is for the safety of someone it should not be encouraged for them to engage in their dissociation/delusions so severely. Constantly asking someone about source memories, engaging with introjects from another system with the same source in a way that encourages disconnect, and considering an introject to literally be that character is harmful. This is all assuming that an individual is not currently being traumatized, that they did not start out with an introject that had no connection to the life of the individual, and that all the other factors that would make it necessary for one to have an alternate state of consciousness that fully believes it is a character are not present.

[proudfictive]

As I said, this attitude is extremely ableist and unnecessarily judgmental.

Fictives are real and not a delusion. I would know -- I'm a fictive, and I also have delusions. My delusions, believe it are not, are completely separate from my identity as a fictive. I can easily tell these two experiences apart.

Why do you think that having a delusion is a negative thing? Why are you using "delusional" as an insult? Even if my identity *was* a delusion, that doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve to be respected.

I can't find the source for this, but I remember reading that fictives have been documented in psychiatric literature from as early as the 1980s.

It is 2025. Time to take fictives seriously.

[rottenteeth]

Least believable rage bait

[proudfictive]

Okay, if you're not saying that fictives aren't completely real as they are -- including their source memories, source friends, and exotrauma -- and you're not saying that being delusional is a bad thing, what *are* you saying?

Why do you feel the need to give fictives condescending advice and tell us to get help for our delusions?

[rottenteeth]

Introjects are real alter types, the brain takes aspects of an already formed character to project memories, experiences, and opinions onto, maybe because it believes if it were that character it would be happier or able to handle a situation better. Children often have stronger examples of the thoughts that would cause this:"If I were a T-Rex I could be stronger than [abuser]" or "That's not happening to me that's happening to [evil cartoon character] so they deserve it"

When introjects come into the picture and they begin to fully engrose themselves in the idea that they are a completely separate person with a completely separate life from you, the dissociation gets worse. It is YOUR brain telling you that you are this character when you enter a different state of consciousness. You are not literally that character nor do you actually have any of their experiences.

Alters are not different people, treating them as such even without fictives in the mix can be borderline delusional depending on how severe it is. The brain wants you to fully believe something that is not true so that it can protect itself. A delusion is a false belief or perception. Simple as that. When one of the parts of your brain fully believes that it is a fictional character that is a false perception. However, this is different from acknowledging that one of your alternate states identifies heavily with a fictional character because of [trauma, aspect of daily life, etc].

Now alters themselves are not delusions but often times alters perception of reality is not true. People with DID often have delusions that people are out to get them. These would be explained by the PTSD portion of the disorder. Delusions can be caused by a multitude of different factors and dissociation and trauma is one of them

The whole point of DID is to be able to function while being traumatized. It's hard to do that if you can always remember trauma. As a child you deny [bad thing] either it didn't happen period or it didn't happen to you. Either way you are distancing yourself from those experiences but by doing that you deny a part of you that your brain still knows about. So instead these memories become only accessible when a certain part of your brain is active. Eventually you will form opinions based on only this version of the world but it conflicts with your other more functional world views so the dissociation barriers become stronger to continue denying your own experience.

Introjects are a phenomenon that happen, but they aren't genuinely that character in anyway, it is you but the part of you that for some reasons needs the traits of that character to either hold trauma or function normally. In relation to exotrauma as you called it, that probably means the brain is using the experiences of a character to mask its own trauma while still having a place to put it. By associating its own trauma with the trauma of a fictional character it can continue to deny its own reality. DID is just a very long term and severe coping mechanism and trauma response that changes the way the brain functions. If it feels like it needs to be [character] to function, it is going to want to fully believe it is that character.

I am mostly concerned with individuals who engage heavily with other introjects or role players and who hold the belief that alters are fully separate individuals. You do not have [character] in your head, one of your dissociated states is a manifestation of [character]. That is a part of you that is disconnected from yourself and parts of objective reality that you as one individual experience.

DID is meant to make you feel like you haven't experienced certain things by putting those things in different places. Playing into the identity of an introject alter can become dangerous really fast, especially when you becomes distressed because you miss characters you have never met or can't look at yourself in the mirror.

I had an introject at one point many years ago and whenever I was in that alternate state I fully and genuinely believed that I was that character. I had false memories, I couldn't look at myself in the mirror, and I would genuinely sob because I could not meet "my friends". When I was not in that alternate state I thought it was so stupid that I was so distressed or sometimes I wouldn't even remember why I had been upset. I had to stop engaging with his streams, I had to stop engaging with his friends streams, I was delusional when I was in that alternate consciousness because my brain needed me to not associate myself with my life or experiences.

When having an introjected part causes severe distress because of personal perceptions and false beliefs it is likely because one is feeding into a disconnect from reality and oneself, which is just dissociation. It is basically dissociative induced delusions which don't sound crazy when you think about what dissociation is. It does impact quality of life and is not a desirable symptom, however having delusional thinking or delusions does not make someone morally inferior or worth less.

Introjects may be so connected to their source because the brain does need to escape from stress or needs to disavow a trauma holder. Introjects may form already severely connected to their idea of a character, however, I am mainly concerned with individuals whose introjects do not start off in a basically delusional state. I often see people trying to make their fictives feel more like [character] by constantly engaging with the media just so that their fictives develop more and actively allowing themselves (and maybe even being encouraged) to engage with what is basically roleplaying false memories with other introjects or kinnies.

Unless it is necessary to keep up dissociative barriers for the safety of an individual it is not really ideal for them to be feeding into their own disconnect from reality/themselves. Introjection is also often not full characters, it is usually the taking of certain traits that are adapted onto an existing fragment or a basis for a new part. I am not saying introjects are inherently delusional, I am saying some people engage with and actively indulge in their dissociative behaviors so much it pushes them over the edge to delusion.

I don't know about you but when I'm really dissociated I may disown my body because "it's not mine" and I consider that to be a delusion so how is an alter claiming to be a completely separate person with their own life before hand not in some way a dissociation induced delusion?

Having a fictive who you acknowledge as an alter ≠ having a fictive who fully believes they had certain experiences, have been taken from their old life, have personal connections with other characters, etc

I hope that makes sense.

All in all: alters are not delusions but often alters, even non introjected ones, have false beliefs or perceptions that are driven by dissociation and it is ideal to combat them to achieve a higher quality of life.

[rottenteeth]

You are not your source. Those characters are not your friends. You are inhibiting your recovery. You are feeding into your lack of connection to reality and fantastical thinking. You can and are making yourself delusional if you didn't already have a pathological introject you are providing the perfect mindset for one.

[proudfictive]

It is arrogant and ableist to call someone delusional simply because they are a fictive.

Dissociative disorders do not involve delusions or fantastical thinking, and many plurals are non-disordered to begin with. Delusions are nowhere in the diagnostic criteria for DID or OSDD-1b. You are thinking of schizophrenia.

But people with schizophrenia shouldn't be treated this way either. Stay in your own damn lane and let fictives live our lives in peace.

[rottenteeth]

It's crazy that I never said that.

When you start fully believing you ARE a character and associating yourself with other characters from source media to the point of having extreme reactions to not being able to interact with them you are heavily dissociating to the point of delusion.

Fictives are not their source, fictives are real things no one ever said otherwise. Dissociative Identity disorder is literally based on the minds ability to pretend it is something that it is not and to pretend that things are not happening to someone. dissociation is the disconnect from oneself and it absolutely can and does cause delusions about who one actually is and their reality especially in regard to introjects. Delusions are not bad but I don't know what else to call someone fully believing they are a character when in an alternate state of consciousness BECAUSE of their own doing i.e. treating a fictive exactly like their source, acting as if a character is taking over their body, etc. that absolutely is delusional territory and I'm tired of people pretending it isn't.

Also one Google search shows many many studies on delusional thinking in dissociative disorders, it is not in the criteria but it is heavily documented. You can't compartmentalize your memories so severely and develop different personality states without having the ability to disconnect from reality which is the perfect breeding ground for delusions.

I experience delusions and have experienced intense delusions when I had introjects, that's nothing to be ashamed of, but people online encourage and normalize these things and it is absolutely harmful to individuals with dissociative disorders, especially young ones like the people on Tumblr.

Please please understand that delusions are not bad nor do I judge individuals for experience such symptoms, I am just tired of them being heavily encouraged. Unless it is for the safety of someone it should not be encouraged for them to engage in their dissociation/delusions so severely. Constantly asking someone about source memories, engaging with introjects from another system with the same source in a way that encourages disconnect, and considering an introject to literally be that character is harmful. This is all assuming that an individual is not currently being traumatized, that they did not start out with an introject that had no connection to the life of the individual, and that all the other factors that would make it necessary for one to have an alternate state of consciousness that fully believes it is a character are not present.

[proudfictive]

As I said, this attitude is extremely ableist and unnecessarily judgmental.

Fictives are real and not a delusion. I would know -- I'm a fictive, and I also have delusions. My delusions, believe it are not, are completely separate from my identity as a fictive. I can easily tell these two experiences apart.

Why do you think that having a delusion is a negative thing? Why are you using "delusional" as an insult? Even if my identity *was* a delusion, that doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve to be respected.

I can't find the source for this, but I remember reading that fictives have been documented in psychiatric literature from as early as the 1980s.

It is 2025. Time to take fictives seriously.

[rottenteeth]

Least believable rage bait

[rottenteeth]

You are not your source. Those characters are not your friends. You are inhibiting your recovery. You are feeding into your lack of connection to reality and fantastical thinking. You can and are making yourself delusional if you didn't already have a pathological introject you are providing the perfect mindset for one.

[proudfictive]

It is arrogant and ableist to call someone delusional simply because they are a fictive.

Dissociative disorders do not involve delusions or fantastical thinking, and many plurals are non-disordered to begin with. Delusions are nowhere in the diagnostic criteria for DID or OSDD-1b. You are thinking of schizophrenia.

But people with schizophrenia shouldn't be treated this way either. Stay in your own damn lane and let fictives live our lives in peace.

[rottenteeth]

It's crazy that I never said that.

When you start fully believing you ARE a character and associating yourself with other characters from source media to the point of having extreme reactions to not being able to interact with them you are heavily dissociating to the point of delusion.

Fictives are not their source, fictives are real things no one ever said otherwise. Dissociative Identity disorder is literally based on the minds ability to pretend it is something that it is not and to pretend that things are not happening to someone. dissociation is the disconnect from oneself and it absolutely can and does cause delusions about who one actually is and their reality especially in regard to introjects. Delusions are not bad but I don't know what else to call someone fully believing they are a character when in an alternate state of consciousness BECAUSE of their own doing i.e. treating a fictive exactly like their source, acting as if a character is taking over their body, etc. that absolutely is delusional territory and I'm tired of people pretending it isn't.

Also one Google search shows many many studies on delusional thinking in dissociative disorders, it is not in the criteria but it is heavily documented. You can't compartmentalize your memories so severely and develop different personality states without having the ability to disconnect from reality which is the perfect breeding ground for delusions.

I experience delusions and have experienced intense delusions when I had introjects, that's nothing to be ashamed of, but people online encourage and normalize these things and it is absolutely harmful to individuals with dissociative disorders, especially young ones like the people on Tumblr.

Please please understand that delusions are not bad nor do I judge individuals for experience such symptoms, I am just tired of them being heavily encouraged. Unless it is for the safety of someone it should not be encouraged for them to engage in their dissociation/delusions so severely. Constantly asking someone about source memories, engaging with introjects from another system with the same source in a way that encourages disconnect, and considering an introject to literally be that character is harmful. This is all assuming that an individual is not currently being traumatized, that they did not start out with an introject that had no connection to the life of the individual, and that all the other factors that would make it necessary for one to have an alternate state of consciousness that fully believes it is a character are not present.