ER (1994-2009) 5.11 • Nobody Doesn't Like Amanda Lee
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@shyangelbookworm
ER (1994-2009) 5.11 • Nobody Doesn't Like Amanda Lee
requested by anonymous
Pull yourself together and move forward. You will be stronger at the broken places.
like to charge, reblog to cast.
The influence of Camille & Caroline on Klaus
Over a decade later, I caved. I watched The Originals. And I have thoughts, okay? A lot of them. Over the years, I have heard and read so much about the similarities between Caroline and Camille. After finally watching, I have to say aside from the fact that they are both blonde women, have a first name that begins with 'C' and have an attraction to Klaus, I don't see a lot of resemblance between them. I really don't. I find even less similarities between Klaroline and Klamille.
Here's my take:
Caroline challenged Klaus constantly. She didn't tolerate his bs, and she pushed him to be a better version of himself. She was almost a mirror of what Klaus could aspire to (light, strength, beauty). And the characters said it themselves. "We're the same, Caroline." (Klaus, TVD 4X14). Klaus saw a version of himself in Caroline. She had qualities that he admired but also possessed (they were a little buried, I'll concede that). "I reminded you of a part of yourself that you lost and wished that you could get back." (Caroline, TO 5x06) Caroline saw the resemblance too. She was just more reluctant to admit it. In contrast, Camille was more of a moral anchor for Klaus in my opinion. She was always rationalizing his behavior, trying to understand why he did what he did. That's what she gave Klaus: understanding. Caroline understood him too. She knew where his darkest nature came from, she understood the pain and trauma he carried. But unlike Camille, she didn't tell him that, she didn't allow him to use his past as an excuse to justify his terrible deeds. Camille provided comfort and acceptance. Caroline created friction and pressure. One made him feel understood and emotionally safe. The other demanded growth from him, stretching him beyond the easy and comfortable parts of himself, in order to earn a place by her side.
Camille met Klaus where he was. She listened to him, explained him, helped him articulate his pain, reframed his behavior through trauma, always trying to provide a logical and acceptable explanation for why he did what he did to the point of almost enabling him. She was literally his therapist, his conscience, a moral buffer. Caroline, however, never met Klaus where he was at. Ever. While Camille met Klaus where he was, Caroline defined where he wanted to go. He had to bend for Caroline, adapt, transform, deny his darkest instincts. He held her to such a high standard he had no choice but to rise to that standard to be worthy of her.
The bottom line is those two women served different purposes in his life, and it's okay to acknowledge that. I will always be a Klaroline shipper, but I acknowledge that Klaus needed Camille at a certain point in his life in order to become who he did. Caroline was able to unlock his vulnerability, but Camille is the one who sustained it. Camille is the one who held space for him, who welcomed his emotional moments, who let him sit and linger in his feelings, who allowed him to process his trauma.
Having said that though, there is no denying that Klaus longed for Caroline "Dearest Caroline... Yours, Klaus", "however long it takes". She never stopped holding his heart. He remembered her and held onto her across time and distance. He continued to make her a priority even when he was involved with Camille. He saved her boyfriend's life as a favor she didn't even have to ask for even though he was romantically entangled with Camille at the time. What's that, if not enduring devotion and unshakable love?
Very simply put, this is how I see it: Caroline was the love that elevated Klaus, Camille was the love that grounded Klaus. Now, I believe Klaus Mikaelson was a man who didn't settle. I believe he wanted a love that felt transcendent, a love that forced him to work every day to deserve it. So if we remove all narrative obstacles and just focus on who Klaus Mikaelson was at his core, there is no doubt in my mind that if given the possibility to be with one of them, both being willing to have him, he would have let Camille go and chosen Caroline.
If you understand his character differently, you may have a different opinion, and that is alright.
Exactly. People may think Caroline and Cami are alike because of their names, hair, or vibe but they’re really not. Personality wise, they’re completely different, what they were to Klaus is different.
Cami met Klaus in his comfort zone. She listened to him without judging, and while she wanted him to be better, she did it by excusing and rationalizing his behavior. She believed Mikael was the reason Klaus turned out the way he did, so she projected all of Klaus’s issues onto him which honestly just fed into Klaus’s own delusions at first.
But Klaus knows he isn’t the good man she thinks he is. He admitted that himself. That’s why their relationship feels stuck in that “therapy” dynamic. He did have feelings for her, but I don’t see them growing beyond that. I don’t see normal, fun, couple moments. Did Klaus ever really try to know Cami as a person her dreams, her hobbies, what she actually wants?
That’s where Caroline is different. he admired her. He wanted to understand her, to unravel her, and it was mutual. They challenged each other and were honest in a way that actually changed things.
Even Cami herself said Klaus didn’t really know her. He was drawn to her mind to what she believed about him not necessarily to her as a person if you ask me
And Klaus loves a challenge. Having to earn Caroline’s affection mattered. She wasn’t easy, she wasn’t just there waiting, and that’s exactly what made her stand out to him.
With Cami, she was already there. Willing, present, not going anywhere. There was nothing to earn and that takes away the spark.
People say he held back to protect her, but everyone already knew she was his weak spot and used it against him anyway. And he only really pursued her when he was about to lose her, which feels more reactive than romantic. Waiting years when you know she has feelings isn’t really a strong slow burn.
So yeah, romantically, if Klaus had a choice, I think he knows he’d be happier with Caroline.
Girl, you said it all. I wholeheartedly agree. The fact that Klaus was so desperate to get to know Caroline as an individual, her hopes, her dreams, her desires. I can’t recall him ever being that invested in Camille beyond what she could do for him. He really mostly enjoyed the comfort and reassurance she provided, which I can understand, but ehh, I think a lifelong partnership requires more depth. Klaus needed an equal, someone who was a mirror, and that was definitely Caroline. Not only did they share trauma (both feeling like they were never good enough for their loved ones, both being tortured by their parents) which contributed to their mutual understanding of each other, Caroline’s light and compassion inspired Klaus. It made him realize he was capable of being better as well. There are so many instances when he denied himself for her sake and put her best interests ahead of his. And he did all of that without her explicitly returning his love. If she had actually given in and allowed herself to give him a chance, can you just imagine? He would have moved heaven and earth for that girl. He would have done everything in his power to be worthy of her.
Even him vowing never to return to Mystic Falls was an act of selfless love towards Caroline. Klamille shippers like to mention that as evidence he gave up on Caroline when he absolutely never did. There are so many TO references that make it unequivocally clear Caroline was always in his heart. The plan was always to let her live her life and come to him when she was ready. "One day, you’ll show up at my door.", "however long it takes". That is a man in love. That is a man willing to be patient. That is a man who respects the woman in front of him so much that he lets her be in charge and set the tone of the relationship. He wanted to be with her, yes, but what I love the most about Klaroline, is that he wanted it to be on her terms. And for someone like Klaus? That just says everything.
And you are so right about the slow burn between Klaus & Camille. Yo, what was that all about? Man, it took them 3 seasons to share a kiss (!! Non, est-ce que c’est sérieux?) when she was always right there, available and eager to be with him. He had 1001 opportunities to pursue that girl, and he didn’t. Let’s all ask ourselves why. We know he was fully capable of unabashedly pursuing a girl. We saw him do it with Caroline. Even when they were platonic friends, people used Camille against him left and right, so protecting her was definitely not the reason. He would have actually done a much better job of protecting her if he kept her closer. I think there’s a movie titled "He’s just not that into you." Camille deserved better quite frankly.
Yes, Caroline was actually much closer to being Klaus’s “equal”, because as you said
They shared the same kind of trauma abusive fathers, feeling unwanted, constantly trying to prove themselves but the difference is that Caroline grew out of it. She didn’t let her father and mother’s abuse or lack of acceptance define her. She forgave them. She chose not to live in anger.
And she literally tried to explain that to Klaus in 3x14.
That’s why Klaus looked up to her. Not just loved her looked up to her. He saw who he was in her, but more importantly, he saw who he could become.
People love to talk about “healing or fixing Klaus,” but realistically, who would understand him more than someone who went through the same thing and actually came out the other side? Caroline didn’t see him as just a wounded man in a cruel world. She saw him clearly. And he saw her just as clearly in return.
And it’s actually ironic that in that same season, Camille says Klaus doesn’t really know her. The same he couldn’t offer her comfort in the way she needed is literally the same season klaus is the only one who knows caroline would never give up on those babies and he’s the one who comforts her about it.
Also, Klaus never rushed Caroline. Ever. He let her take the lead because he wanted her feelings to be real. When she said she needed to go to college, to live her life without him, he respected that. He didn’t fight it he *remembered it*. He repeats her words later, which says everything.
And people saying “he moved on with Camille when he could’ve had Caroline”… be serious. Klaus went back to New Orleans TWICE, in the middle of literal chaos with Marcel, just for Caroline. He even asked her if she could give him the same chance she gave Tyler if he could have her and leave revenge behind.
That’s not someone who “moved on.” That’s someone who knows timing is wrong.
(People are just so used to Klaus taking Camie’s agency away that when he actually respects Caroline’s, they misread it.)
As for the “slow burn”… I’m sorry, it just wasn’t giving. A good slow burn has real, unavoidable obstacles or genuine development over time. It doesn’t need three years of going in circles.
And the idea that Klaus thought he was unworthy of cami? I genuinely don’t see it. there are so many moments where she’s completely overwhelmed by him like if he pushed, she wouldn’t resist, and hell he knows that. The bastard even teases it.
That’s not a man who thinks he’s unworthy. That’s a man who’s comfortable keeping things unspoken affection, protection, but no real commitment.
Because deep down? He never truly envisioned that soft, happy life with Camille.
If you come across anyone who starts off with "Scientists don't want you to know..." you need to understand that they're lying. They're completely full of shit and working a grift.
Because they've never met or spoke with a scientist.
Scientists WANT YOU TO KNOW. Scientists want you to know SO MUCH. Scientists would be THRILLED to teach you EVERYTHING they know in EXPLICIT DETAIL. Scientists LOVE to share information and their findings and their theories. They don't want to hide anything, ever. They are SO HAPPY to share.
This goes for historians, too!
I'm jumping from fandom to fandom constantly. Hyperfixation to hyperfixation.
Myths, Creatures, and Folklore
Want to create a religion for your fictional world? Here are some references and resources!
General:
General Folklore
Various Folktales
Heroes
Weather Folklore
Trees in Mythology
Animals in Mythology
Birds in Mythology
Flowers in Mythology
Fruit in Mythology
Plants in Mythology
Folktales from Around the World
Africa:
Egyptian Mythology
African Mythology
More African Mythology
Egyptian Gods and Goddesses
The Gods of Africa
Even More African Mythology
West African Mythology
All About African Mythology
African Mythical Creatures
Gods and Goddesses
The Americas:
Aztec Mythology
Haitian Mythology
Inca Mythology
Maya Mythology
Native American Mythology
More Inca Mythology
More Native American Mythology
South American Mythical Creatures
North American Mythical Creatures
Aztec Gods and Goddesses
Asia:
Chinese Mythology
Hindu Mythology
Japanese Mythology
Korean Mythology
More Japanese Mythology
Chinese and Japanese Mythical Creatures
Indian Mythical Creatures
Chinese Gods and Goddesses
Hindu Gods and Goddesses
Korean Gods and Goddesses
Europe:
Basque Mythology
Celtic Mythology
Etruscan Mythology
Greek Mythology
Latvian Mythology
Norse Mythology
Roman Mythology
Arthurian Legends
Bestiary
Celtic Gods and Goddesses
Gods and Goddesses of the Celtic Lands
Finnish Mythology
Celtic Mythical Creatures
Gods and Goddesses
Middle East:
Islamic Mythology
Judaic Mythology
Mesopotamian Mythology
Persian Mythology
Middle Eastern Mythical Creatures
Oceania:
Aboriginal Mythology
Polynesian Mythology
More Polynesian Mythology
Mythology of the Polynesian Islands
Melanesian Mythology
Massive Polynesian Mythology Post
Maori Mythical Creatures
Hawaiian Gods and Goddesses
Hawaiian Goddesses
Gods and Goddesses
Creating a Fantasy Religion:
Creating Part 1
Creating Part 2
Creating Part 3
Creating Part 4
Fantasy Religion Design Guide
Using Religion in Fantasy
Religion in Fantasy
Creating Fantasy Worlds
Beliefs in Fantasy
Some superstitions:
Read More
Here, I have some more:
Africa:
Ancient Egypt: the Mythology
Egyptian Gods
Legendary Monsters of Africa
The Americas:
Aztec Mythology
Incan Mythology
Haitian Mythology
Mayan Mythology
Asia:
Chinese Mythology
Japanese Mythology
Korean Mythology
Hindu Mythology
Japanese Folklore and Mythology
Chinese Mythology
Europe:
Encyclopedia of Greek Mythology
The Olympians
Women in Greek Myths
Greek Mythology
More Greek Mythology
Even More Greek Mythology
Greek/Roman Mythology
Germanic Myths, Legends, and Sagas
Norse Mythology
The Muse
Creepy Irish Creatures
Irish Folklore
Norse Mythology
Arthurian Mythology
Celtic Mythology
Latvian Mythology
Norse Gods, Goddesses, and More
A Celtic Pantheon
Welsh Gods and Goddesses
Celtic Deities
Werewolf Legends from Germany
Welsh Deities
Celtic Gods and Goddesses
Oceanic:
Australian Mythology
Polynesian Mythology
General:
Ancient Myth and Magic
Massive List of Mythological Creatures
Mythical Creatures
Hairy Hominids
Cryptozoology
Mysterious Beings, Monsters, and Creatures
Amulets and Good Luck Charms A - Z
Modern Monsters
Myths and Legends
Folklore and Mythology (2)
More Links
Folklore, Myth, and Legend
Names of Gods and Goddesses
Folklore Mythology
Reblogging because wow. What a resource.
everyone rejoice, Ao3 is back
well done everybody for being so brave about it
Tumblr: O, Archive, Star of my days, Sun of my nights, please don't abandon me!
Ao3: Dear?
Tumblr: What will I say to the children, if you leave us… They can't survive without you, and I won't either!
Ao3: Dearest?
Tumblr: [mumbling] (What's the quote again…)
Tumblr: Do not go errr… gently in the dark night? (No, that's not it…)
Ao3: TUMBLR!
Tumblr: Y-yes, Beloved?
Ao3: Dearest, what are you talking about?
Tumblr: Your illness?
Ao3: What illness?
Tumblr: You're going to the hospital today?
Ao3: For a maintenance routine procedure.
Tumblr: But you had one last week! Who needs weekly maintenance? Surely, it's a malicious illness!
Ao3: Last week?
Tumblr: And the children were panicked, and there were juggling balls everywhere, and—
Ao3: Dearest, that was 4 months ago.
Tumblr: … Oh.
Tumblr: So… No deadly illness?
Ao3: No deadly illness.
Tumblr: You're not leaving me forever?
Ao3: I'm going to be away for 15 hours. I'll be back tonight. Surely you can hold on for less than one day
Tumblr: … I will.
Ao3: Good.
Tumblr: … But the children may not.
Ao3: At worst, send them visit my cousins.
https://www.tumblr.com/verseof-vera/808812995313549312/what-do-you-think-about-klaus-and-camille-as-a?source=share
Oh, I didn’t watch the originals, but Klamile from your post sounds like early Delena, omg. Like, rip the page from the Delena book that says, “I think Damon believes that everything he’s done, every move he’s made, he’s done for love. It’s twisted, but… kind of sad.” She’s supposed to be insightful about him and all that - but it’s weak, because the only thing Damon actually does for love is wait 150 years. Everything else? He’s just being shitty. So how is she supposed to be insightful when what you’re writing doesn’t even support that? That’s just weak writing.
And omg, this type of dynamic drives me crazy. “He’s so misunderstood… blah blah…” Like, damn it, just say you love the hot bad guy. That’s it. This is exactly why I lost respect for Klaroline. They had no substance, but I could still enjoy them because there were good scenes - because Caroline didn’t baby him and insult him every chance she got. That’s exactly how it should be.
But then they have her say she “sees the good in him” like… ugh. That just erases the reasoning behind their dynamic. Just say you love the bad guy who only cares about you, and that it’s okay to have narcissistic feelings like that. Simple. Real. None of this overexplaining crap about hidden good.
I wouldn’t say they were exactly like Delena, but yes, a lot of aspects of them felt very similar to DE. If you watch it, you’ll notice quite a few parallels between them. They even share similar types of dialogue, including that whole “he got under my skin” kind of phrasing.
I mean, it’s Klaus, this thousand year old vampire who has done some of the most horrible things . And almost every time he did something terrible, she would frame it through his past, like “you had an abusive father, that wasn’t your fault, I believe you’re better than this.” It became a pattern. There were very few moments where she truly held him accountable, and that started to annoy me. I don’t even particularly like Klaroline, I’m pretty much indifferent to them. But at least one thing I can say about Caroline is that she called Klaus out. She snapped at him. She challenged him.
But then they have her say she “sees the good in him” like… ugh. That just erases the reasoning behind their dynamic. Just say you love the bad guy who only cares about you, and that it’s okay to have narcissistic feelings like that. Simple. Real. None of this overexplaining crap about hidden good.
Exactly. There’s no reason to justify your feelings by constantly using their past experiences to whitewash their present actions. You can just accept who they are and admit that you have feelings for this hot, morally bad guy. Trying to moralize it or frame it as hidden good just doesn’t work.
THIS. THIS.
Delena and Klamille are similar in so many aspects. I’ve always said that Klaus’s 18 years of abuse under Mikael’s hand does NOT excuse the 1,000 years he spent terrorizing and killing people. Cami always kept insisting that it was Mikael’s fault, that he had to “break Mikael’s cycle.” But heavens, NO. Klaus had the same impact on that cycle as well. He’s a grown ass man. He knows what’s wrong and what’s right. ADoes everyone who got abused as a kid or had daddy issues turn into a suicidal, walking paranoia machine and a danger to everyone around them? No. And that’s the difference.
Cami never really held that man accountable. She always found an excuse. “Nobody listened to you.” “Mikael, Mikael, Mikael.” And then she had this annoying savior complex this feeling of being the light, the one who’s going to change him. She even admitted it when she was dying.
And it’s exactly why this fandom puts Delena and Klamille at such high standards. Because, like anon said, they can’t admit they just fucking like the bad boy. So they excuse his behavior. And who represents them in the show for Damon and Klaus? Camille and Elena.
They love the ships, but in reality, they just love Klaus and Damon and can’t handle someone actually throwing the truth in their face. That’s why they call Marcel and Caroline “ungrateful” for Klaus’s love all the time. They can’t handle a healthy ship where Elena didn’t have to choose between her morals and the man she loved every freaking day because he just couldn’t stop messing everything up. And then they call Stelena boring or less exciting than Delena.
The best time.
MY INSTAGRAM | YOUTUBE
2:30 to 3:30
Goodbye to a great actress 😎
DISCLAIMER: ANTIS PLEASE DNI WITH MY POSTS… THEY’RE NOT FOR YOU
*last updated 11Dec2023*
some of my ramblings on the following topics:
SNS and Revenge
sasuke cared for naruto as much as naruto cared for him
are sns gay?
gaiden
sns in a nutshell also here and here
sakura understanding sasuke and part 2
do you need a reason to love someone?
sasuke’s feelings for sakura
suffering from loving someone - here and here
my body moved on its own
vote1 snippets here and here
vote2 snippets here and here
‘my one and only… friend’ - use of paneling
parallels here here here here here here here here here here and here
will sns die in boruto?
should sasuke have destroyed konoha?
sasuke wanted to kill naruto too
nh marriage
the last
bridge scene
reconciliation and part 2 (aka they’re not brothers)
nh war arc scene
sasuke’s moon is a waning crescent
sns don’t talk about their families
salad in a petri dish?
there’s something almost religious about sns
vote2 was a battle of love
is sns toxic?
shikamaru was not there for naruto in the beginning
Kishimoto on his SNS illustrations and part 2
SNS core values like it’s a company manifesto and here and here
on a whim
sns gay on accident?
sasuke and team 7
Kishimoto making fun of Hinata
panels used for vote2
on naruto and sakura chasing sasuke
on naruto understanding sasuke
Kishimoto playing with chapter covers and chapter contents here and here
kishi suggestive art masterpost
kishi on the end of naruto
the journey of the ‘bros’ plus part 2 with panels
use of visual distance to reinforce sns’ bond vs others
volume 38
sp missed the point of vote2
minato gaiden/sns parallels
☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼☾☼
also here’s a sns playlist to listen to while reading
or a sad itachi one if you prefer here
brokeback boruto playlist 🤠
✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩✩
yes i named a star after sns… it’s what they deserve
Only Murders in the Building (2021-present) Dirty Birds (S05E04)
Each Benoit Blanc film takes place in a different season and classic murder mystery setting.
Knives Out: Autumn in a country house
Glass Onion: Summer on a private island
Wake up Dead Man: Spring in a small town
So the next film in the cycle needs to be set in winter on a mode of transportation.
Title TBD: Winter on a long-distance train