Auri's Fandom Vault

My new blog for all things fandom. Note: If you harass people over fictional characters (or in general really) you can take that energy elsewhere it isn't welcome here. Also if you hate characters and feel the need to spew vitriol about them do it in your own space and don't involve me or my blog.

[asideoftrashplease]

Detangling JC, his motivations, & his feelings on WWX (i)

JC and WWX have a very fraught history, and while WWX’s role as the narrator makes it very clear what his feelings towards JC are, JC’s feelings towards WWX and motivations seem a lot murkier. He goes from treating WWX as a brother, to mounting a siege in a concerted attempt to take his life. His actions and motivations in the aftermath of WWX’s resurrection are also subject to interpretation. This meta provides argument for my interpretation of his feelings and motivations throughout these events.

LOVE AND BROTHERHOOD

It is clear from the outset that JC cared deeply about WWX (I wish I did not have to make a case for this because it should be obvious, but there are some who believe that JC did not love WWX). Although he holds bitterness and resentment towards WWX due to his family situation and their rivalry, he cares about WWX and is protective of him. This shines through especially in times of mortal peril. 

When WWX was trapped in the Xuanwu cave, he travelled without stopping to find people to rescue WWX. The trip should have taken 10 days, but because he drove himself to exhaustion in his desperation to save WWX, he only took 7 days.

When WWX is in danger of being discovered by the Wens after the burning of Lotus Pier, he uses himself as bait to draw them away from WWX despite the risk to his own life, which eventually leads to his capture and the loss of his core.

SO WHERE DID THINGS GO WRONG

Things started to take a turn after the Sunshot Campaign. I believe a few key events caused resentment and confusion to build and grow in JC over time:

WWX’s refusal to carry his sword, which put political pressure on YMJ

His decision to break out the Wen Remnants, without consulting or informing JC, with put more pressure on YMJ

His decision to defect from YMJ, effectively (in JC’s mind) picking the Wens over YMJ and his brotherhood with JC

His actions at Qiongqi Path which killed JZX — while we know from WWX’s POV what happened, JC and JYL have no idea what went down except from the claims of the surviving Jin cultivators

His attack on the 4000 cultivators at the Nightless City, which ultimately cost JYL’s life

It’s evident that JC is increasingly bewildered, angered, and hurt by WWX’s actions. It’s clear that he’s confused, and just CAN’T UNDERSTAND WHY WWX IS ACTING THIS WAY. All the while, resentment is building in him that he has to clean up WWX’s messes, all while WWX’s actions undermine him as a leader and brings up childhood insecurities and jealousies. But his love for WWX drives him to continually stand by WWX and believe in him — even grudgingly, complainingly, and with growing resentment. Even up to the attack at the Nightless City, even after JZX’s death, he still seems to believe in WWX.

This last event, the attack at the Nightless City, seems to be the turning point where he stops believing in WWX, so I want to cover this particular event in more detail:

A “pledge conference” is being attended by QHN, GSL, LLJ, and YMJ. This conference is a ceremonial affair, centered around their pledge to eradicate WWX and the Wen remnants. It begins with them honoring the fallen with a toast, but while the other three sect leaders make the toasts, JC goes through the motions of the toast with visible unhappiness, and then conspicuously says nothing to honor the dead.

I feel this action needs to be understood in the context of the ceremony. They are standing in the Nightless City, where their comrades died in the final battle to take down QSW, a battle which WWX contributed to greatly. They are pouring the wine on the ground where the bodies lie to honor the fallen: “Here we honor our fallen. Rest in peace.” (Uncontroversial) “Now in the name of our fallen, we will eliminate the Wens who killed them — and the Yiling Patriarch!” (Controversial because WWX was brother in arms to these soldiers, and JGS is stirring shit because he wants the Yin Tiger Seal.)

JC knows the controversial bit is coming, so while the other sect leaders one by one say things like “rest in peace” and “may they live on” he dumps the wine on the ground and refuses to say anything. He is the only one, of the four with cups, who does not speak.

When WWX appears, the others all draw their weapons, but JC reaction is different: “JC’s pupils shrunk. Blue veins lined the back of his hand.” From this sentence alone, it may not seem clear what he’s feeling, but based on the rest of his actions in this scene, I would guess that he’s shocked and appalled that WWX would dare to appear before such a large and hostile mob, A MOB THAT IS CURRENTLY PLEDGING TO KILL HIM AND SCATTER HIS ASHES, thus recklessly and what seems like arrogantly endangering his own life.

After an increasingly hostile exchange between WWX and the mob, JGS calls for everyone to set up the battle arrays to seal WWX in, with the intention of killing him there. But when WWX calls up the corpses buried under them to defend himself, it’s stated that all the sects were in disarray, except for YMJ, which seems to indicate that WWX’s corpses were not attacking the YMJ delegation — and the YMJ cultivators were not fighting the corpses either.

This all seems to indicate that despite JZX’s death, despite the fact that JC has NO FUCKING CLUE what the hell happened at Qiongqi Path, despite the fact that he’s no doubt been fed lies and biased reports from the surviving Jin cultivators, and despite the fact that WWX is currently unleashing an undead army on all of them — he still believes that there’s another side of the story. He doesn’t even know WHAT that story is, but he believes in WWX— grudgingly, and with growing disbelief, confusion, and incredulity—  he still believes, BLINDLY, in WWX.

THE TURNING POINT

In the ensuing chaos, JYL is killed, and WWX finally snaps in his grief, unleashing a hellish and completely uncontrolled bloodbath upon the assembled cultivators. It is estimated that this killed three thousand people, severely decimating the cultivation world’s population.

The siege begins after this attack, and we know from the prologue that the siege was headed by JC, and that he was the one behind key tactical maneuvers (designed using his intimate knowledge of WWX’s weaknesses) that allowed them to eventually sack the Burial Mounds. In the aftermath, he was the main person credited by the cultivation world for the defeat of the Yiling Patriarch. When WWX meets JL at Dafan, he corroborates this by revealing, through the narration, that JGS was the second-biggest contributor to the siege — after JC, who was the biggest contributor.

I know that there are other popular interpretations of JC’s motivations here. I will name two:

He participated in the siege only due to political pressure — after what WWX did at the Nightless City, he couldn’t NOT condemn him or the cultivation world would have turned on YMJ too

He participated in the siege hoping to take WWX alive and bring him back home to discipline privately

But I don’t subscribe to either of these interpretations. I believe he FULLY intended to kill WWX. Firstly, if he was only participating in the siege due to political pressure, why contribute so vitally to the siege, why take a leading role and design tactical maneuvers to bring WWX down? He could have just done as he’d done previously, which was to participate perfunctorily in “opposition” against WWX, but contributing as little as possible, or nothing at all.

Secondly, some may argue that he was trying to capture WWX alive. But before this, he had always given the impression of being extremely cautious, to the point of inaction when maybe action would have been better. JC is VERY risk-averse. His characterization before the siege is that he’d rather do nothing than do something even potentially risky. The intention of everyone else was to kill WWX, NOT to capture him. As such, the risk that WWX would be killed in battle is extremely high. Even if by some miracle, he managed to capture WWX alive despite the best efforts of everyone else to murder him, it would be really difficult to stop the other sects from executing him, and getting permission to take him home and keep him under house arrest. It would be a safer bet to try to sabotage the siege from the inside, which is not what he did. In fact, he did the opposite. He was leading the siege viciously and with intent.

So I believe that he fully intended to kill WWX, which means the turning point was JYL’s death. Up to her death, JC still believed in WWX. After her death, however, the very last we see of him is him clutching JYL’s body, completely in shock, having not yet processed her death. I believe his last words to WWX should hint to us what caused the snap from blind faith to blind hatred. These words were: “Didn’t you say you could control it?! Didn’t you say it would be fine?!” To which WWX (who is having 99 fucking breakdowns all at once) finally admits that he was wrong, and that he can’t actually control it.

My belief is that this incident made JC realize that JYL’s death (and JZX’s as well) was largely caused by WWX’s loss of control over his demonic cultivation, and IMPORTANTLY, JC’s inaction re: WWX’s method of cultivation and his seeming descent into violent radicalism. Despite all the warning signs, the growing escalations, the increasingly violent confrontations with increasingly large death tolls— he continued to believe in WWX, even when he could no longer understand or predict WWX’s actions. Everyone told him “you need to reign him in” “he’s going off the rails” “he’s a danger to us all” and JC didn’t take them seriously because he BELIEVED IN and TRUSTED WWX.

And now his sister is dead, his month-old nephew is an orphan, and WWX has massacred three thousand people in a single night, likely including members of YMJ, in a total loss of control and conscience. I think that was the turning point, the crux of the betrayal.

I believed in you. I defended you. I stuck my neck out for you. But you scorned my help. You rejected and discarded me. You betrayed my trust.

You don’t give a shit about me.

You don’t give a shit about anyone else.

I BELIEVED in you, and YOU BETRAYED ME.

—

NOTE: Right now this meta is getting a little long, so I think this is a good place to maybe cut it in thirds? Part II should cover the siege, WWX’s death, and the 13 years in between, and Part III should cover JC’s actions and motivations after WWX’s resurrection. As the next parts have not been written, I can’t link it! But when Part II is done, I will edit the post to include a link below the cut:

Keep reading

[lovingwwx]

I disagree with your interpretation on where things went wrong, and I’m going to write it all down one by one.

1) WWX’s refusal to carry his sword wasn’t an actual issue, he just seemed eccentric and disrespectful for it, but it certainly didn’t put YMJ under any political pressure. Here’s what put YMJ under political pressure, the fact that WWX refused to hand over the yin iron seal to the Jins.

“In the beginning, Sect Leader Jin asked Wei Ying for the Tiger Seal with nothing but good intentions, worried that he wouldn’t be able to control it and lead to a disaster. He, however, used his own yardstick to measure another’s intents. Did he think that everyone is after his treasure? What a joke. In terms of treasures, is there any sect that doesn’t hold a few treasures?”

- Chapter 73

Any good leader, should have recognized this for what it is, an attempt to control the YMJ clan. And I have reason to believe that JC knew it, too.

2) WWX’s decision to break out the Wens was done without consulting JC, but it was also an emergency, where more people would have died if WWX hadn’t taken any action. You say that JC was “increasingly bewildered, angered, and hurt by WWX’s actions. It’s clear that he’s confused, and just CAN’T UNDERSTAND WHY WWX IS ACTING THIS WAY.”, but WWX explained to him exactly why he took the actions he did.

Don’t forget. Who was the one that helped us burn Uncle Jiang’s and Madam Yu’s corpses? Who returned to us the ashes that are in Lotus Pier right now? And who took us in when we were chased after by Wen Chao?!

WWX points out that JC owes a debt to the Wens, one that he should, by every ethical standard, pay back. Through confucian ethics, WN saved his life and brought his parents bodies back, allowing him to fulfil his duties by giving them a funeral. He owes a debt to him, and not just that, but the debt goes along to his parents, who would not have been able to rest in the afterlife were it not for WN’s actions. He owes Wen Ning 3 times over for this.

WWX, is fulfilling Jiang Cheng’s debt by helping the Wens, and Jiang Cheng knows it. He even says to WWX,

To attempt the impossible’? Fine. You understand the YunmengJiang Sect’s motto. Better than I do. Better than all of us do.

WWX, is in fact, following the Jiang Sect motto, by doing what needs to be done, even if he will fail. This is the meaning of the Jiang motto.

3) WWX did not actually defect from the sect, but rather, it was JC who refused to support him

Wei WuXian replied in a relaxed tone, “Yunmeng is so close to Yiling. I’ll sneak back whenever I feel like it.”

Jiang Cheng snorted, “You wish.”

Wei WuXian, “You said it already. I wouldn’t be in the right even if I am. What else could I do except for jailing myself here?”

Jiang Cheng, “What else? Of course there’s something.”

With Sandu, he pointed at Wen Ning who lay on the ground, “The only way of making up for things is for us to end things before they get the chance to!”

Wei WuXian, “End what?”

Jiang Cheng, “You burn this corpse right now and return to them all these leftovers of the Wen Sect. That’s the only way to make the subject die!” As he spoke, he raised his sword again, preparing to attack.

However, Wei WuXian clenched his wrist, “Are you joking?! If we return Wen Qing and the others to them, they’d meet nothing but a dead end!”

Jiang Cheng, “I doubt you’ll even return all of them. Why do you care what kind of end they meet? A dead end it is, then—what does it have to do with you?!”

Jiang Cheng, “I’m the one who fucking wants to give you a thrashing! Yes, they helped us before, but why in the world don’t you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism! No matter who they are, with a surname of Wen they have committed a most heinous crime! And those who protect the Wen are at risk of being condemned by everyone! All the people loathe the Wen-dogs so badly that the worse they die the better. Whoever protects them is against the entire world. Nobody would speak for them, and nobody would speak for you either!”

Wei WuXian, “I don’t need anyone to speak for me.”

Jiang Cheng exploded, “Just what are you being so stubborn about? If you can’t do it then move over—I’ll do it!”

Wei WuXian, “Just let go. Tell the world that I defected. From now on, no matter what Wei WuXian does, it’d have nothing to do with the YunmengJiang Sect.”

Jiang Cheng, “… All for the Wen Sect…? Wei WuXian, do you have a savior complex? Is it that you’ll die if you don’t stand up for someone and stir up some trouble?”

Wei WuXian stayed quiet. A while later, he answered, “So that’s why we should cut ties right now, in case anything I do affects the YunmengJiang Sect in the future.”

Or else, he really couldn’t make any guarantees on what he’d do in the future.

- Chapter 73

This isn’t WWX defecting for no reason. This is JC pressuring WWX to either defect, or to kill the Wens. WWX chose not killing the Wens over staying with JC. JC saw it as WWX choosing the Wens over him, and maybe it was, but he gave WWX a ridiculous ultimatum.

4) WWX’s actions at Qiongqi path is one that JC predicted, multiple times. In fact, he was almost hoping for it to happen, given that he called WWX an enemy of the sects, and supported the rumours that said WWX was building an army. He was the one who put WWX in that kind of spot, where something like this would happen.

Jiang Cheng, “I’m the one who fucking wants to give you a thrashing! Yes, they helped us before, but why in the world don’t you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism! No matter who they are, with a surname of Wen they have committed a most heinous crime! And those who protect the Wen are at risk of being condemned by everyone! All the people loathe the Wen-dogs so badly that the worse they die the better. Whoever protects them is against the entire world. Nobody would speak for them, and nobody would speak for you either!”

After the fight, Jiang Cheng told the outside that Wei WuXian defected from the sect and was an enemy to the entire cultivation world. The YunmengJiang Sect had already cast him out. From then on, no ties remained between them—a clear line was drawn. Henceforth, no matter what he did, they’d have nothing to do with the YunmengJiang Sect!

- Chapter 73

JC put WWX in a difficult position. Note that WWX did not ever tell him to call him an enemy to the cultivation world, only that his actions have nothing to do with the Jiang sect, but JC did that anyway, making sure that WWX would be targeted in the exact way he predicted.

“On your own?” Jiang Cheng sneered, “Wei WuXian, do you believe that even if you don’t stir up trouble on your own, trouble won’t come and find you? It’s often impossible to save someone, but there are more than thousands of ways to harm someone.”

Wei WuXian replied as he ate, “A man with strength can defeat ten with skill. I don’t care if they have thousands of ways. I’ll kill whoever comes.”

Jiang Cheng spoke in a cool voice, “You never listen to any of my opinions. One day, you’ll come to understand that I’m the one who’s right.”

- Chapter 75

This becomes obvious when considering JC’s past actions. He called WWX an enemy of the sects unprovoked, not just because he wanted to cut ties with him, but because he’s hoping that WWX will be attacked and come crawling back to YMJ.

5) The attack on the “4000″ cultivators in nightless city. Firstly, even 3000 is said to be greatly exaggerated. Secondly, JC watched how that attack went down. WWX’s actions didn’t lead to JYL’s death, in fact, JYL died because she was shot by a random cultivator from the orthodox cultivator’s sides. As in, JC’s side killed JYL. They killed her, aiming at WWX.

JC might believe this was due to WWX, but he saw and understood what was going on. He was watching while someone from his side killed JYL, and he was watching while WWX was attacked. He didn’t participate, that came later, but is it really fair to say that he was innocent in these proceedings? That he didn’t act against WWX, while he was deliberately turning WWX into a target, and watched as the consequences of that came crashing down on him?

It’s a bit too easy for people to ignore JC’s actions, and then try to pretend that WWX is arrogant or has a hero complex, rather than someone trying desperately to do the right thing, lol.

[asideoftrashplease]

Mm this is a long response, so I must also address it one by one.

1) WWX’s refusal to carry his sword wasn’t an actual issue, the fact that WWX refused to hand over the yin iron seal to the Jins was the issue.

Actually, I agree. The underlying issue was that JGS wanted the Yin Tiger Seal, so was trying to sway sentiment against WWX. But there’s a sense of everyone at each succeeding event referring to a history of past actions to be upset with WWX, and the Jins fanning the flames. Even if the underlying reason to fan the flames is the Tiger Seal, it doesn’t change that the thing being used to exert political pressure is a cascading series of actions with the first being “refusing to carry his sword” then all the times he lost his temper and said something arrogant building up into a general sense of “he’s too arrogant”, “he’s out of control” and “he is standing in opposition to all of us”. 

When WWX loses his temper, he always says he’s above them all and all of them put together can’t do anything if he wants to do something against them. This is… objectively alarming to hear from someone who holds a weapon of mass destruction, especially in light of escalating skirmishes with other sects, each with a rising death toll. WWX’s cascading series of actions gives the cultivation world a reason to fear his possession of the Tiger Seal, and this seems to prove true when he loses control at the Nightless City. The others continually warn JC of the danger WWX poses, but although JC growingly resents WWX for it, he never seems to consider WWX as an actual threat. The turning point was the Nightless City.

What I don’t understand is this part: “Any good leader, should have recognized this for what it is, an attempt to control the YMJ clan. And I have reason to believe that JC knew it, too.” This is a strong claim. But you haven’t provided any evidence for it. I’m honestly confused where this came from.

2.1) WWX explained to JC exactly why he broke out the Wens, so JC clearly isn’t bewildered, confused, and struggling to understand why WWX is doing this.

The reason that WWX gave JC is that WN returned the corpses of his parents, which IS a reason to feel gratitude. But the true reason why WWX goes out of his way for them, is because of the core transfer, and because he accumulated goodwill with them during the days that JC was unconscious.

Jiang Cheng was someone who held deep grudges. He was imbued with the hatred he held toward the Qishan Wen Sect. He had been unconscious the whole time when Wen Qing and Wen Ning helped him, so he couldn’t feel the same way that Wei Wuxian did at all. Due to this, he had never shown courtesy toward Wen Ning.

It is clear from the excerpt you displayed, that even though WWX has stated his reason, JC is struggling to understand his reason. This is clear throughout the conversation.

Why do you care what kind of end they meet? A dead end it is, then—what does it have to do with you?!

Why in the world don’t you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism?!

Just what are you being so stubborn about?

… All for the Wen Sect…?   

To JC, I think his thought is “yes, they brought the bodies, but they’re the reason my parents are bodies and not people, so the least they could fucking do was bring the bodies” and there’s also the issue of the REST of the sect that was massacred and their bodies were just dumped. There is a debt of gratitude, yes, but there is also overlaying duty of honor-bound vengeance (which is also a thing in Chinese ethics), and a massive vengeance at that, because the entire clan was annihilated. This brings me to the subpoint you make under this argument.

2.2)  JC owes WN 3 times over for bringing back his parent’s bodies, a debt that he should, by every ethical standard (and by Chinese ethical standards), pay back.

I don’t want to take up too much space, so if you’re interested in discussing this in good faith, I make an extended argument about the honor-bound vengeance here. Someone linked me an article from CN fandom to refute my argument, which raises the point about the bodies, and which I tried to address here. Unfortunately the person has deleted their responses, but I think a key point of note here is that the matter of “which one is higher, the debt of gratitude, or the vengeance and duty to protect the sect” is a hotly debated topic even in the Chinese fandom. So I feel it’s difficult to say “by Chinese standards, JC did wrong” or “by Chinese standards, JC did right” when Chinese people are still arguing fiercely about which of several conflicting standards should apply in this case. It is certainly wrong to say “by every ethical standard” he did wrong.

That’s why you will see that the title of my meta is not “Why JC was right”, it’s “Detangling JC’s feelings and motivations.” I have more thoughts on this, but I’ll save them for the end.

3) WWX didn’t defect for no reason. JC made a ridiculous ultimatum, by pressuring WWX to either defect, or to kill the Wens.

I’m very confused. The excerpt you quoted doesn’t support this. In fact, it supports the opposite. JC doesn’t pressure WWX to defect. He doesn’t even make this a YMJ matter. He says “there’s only one way out of this: you need to kill the Wens, or they will turn on you!” (not YMJ)

Right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism… those who protect the Wen are at risk of being condemned by everyone… Whoever protects them is against the entire world. Nobody would speak for them (the Wens), and nobody would speak for you either!”

It is WWX who comes up with the solution of DEFECTING, and who makes it about YMJ, when JC’s primary concern was WWX himself. This is WWX trying to be RESPONSIBLE, but to JC it’s also: “I was trying to help you, but you think I’m just afraid for my own skin?” “Is that all there is between us, the sect?”

I feel like calling this an “ultimatum” also ignores the fact that JC isn’t just pointing and saying DO THIS, DO THAT, without doing anything himself. He’s saying “Give up the Wens, and we can still cover this up. We can bury this. We can make them forget the Jin cultivators you killed.” He’s not making an ultimatum: do this or we cut ties. He’s saying meet me halfway. But WWX can’t meet him halfway, nor can he explain the true reason why he can’t. He can’t tell JC about the core surgery, so he decides: let’s just focus on saving you. I can take care of myself.

4.1) WWX’s actions at Qiongqi path is one that JC predicted, multiple times. 

WHERE? The excerpts you provided only showed:

Do you believe that even if you don’t stir up trouble on your own, trouble won’t come and find you?

You never listen to any of my opinions. One day, you’ll come to understand that I’m the one who’s right.

He did not predict WWX’s actions. He predicted that trouble would find WWX, and was warning him to be careful. WWX dismisses his concern. JC says you never listen to anything I say. Idk I personally see a kind of sadness and hurt there. But idk, I feel like we might be reading different novels here.

4.2) JC was hoping for Qiongqi path to happen, given that (A) he called WWX an enemy of the sects, and (B) supported the rumors that WWX was building an army. 

Okay, let’s tackle (B) first. WHERE? WWX broke the Wens out. JC comes days later, sees the Wens and makes a dry comment on how the other sect leaders are acting like WWX has 占山为王 when the people are just children and the elderly. He didn’t start those rumors. It doesn’t say anywhere that he supported them. Honestly, my personal interpretation was that he didn’t really take them seriously up until the pledge conference. The last time we see him before the pledge conference IIRC was when he brought JYL to WWX, and he repeatedly makes fun of the Yiling Patriarch moniker. He thinks it’s ridiculous, and honestly kinda funny, but ultimately a joke. Then the next time we see him is the pledge conference, where he seems to be realizing just how serious this is getting. The Yiling Patriarch title is being used unironically and without humor, and they are literally getting ready to storm the Burial Mounds. JC is visibly disturbed, and looks like he’s beginning to doubt his choices.

Okay, so now (A) next. I don’t know if you read Chinese, but I personally feel the tone conveyed in the translation here misses out some stuff, so I’m gonna quote the original and try and break down some of the nuances I PERSONALLY felt were lost in translation:

After the fight, Jiang Cheng told the outside that Wei Wuxian defected from the sect and was an enemy to the entire cultivation world. The Yunmeng Jiang Sect had already cast him out. From then on, no ties remained between them—a clear line was drawn. Henceforth, no matter what he did, they’d have nothing to do with the Yunmeng Jiang Sect!

此战过后，江澄对外宣称：魏无羡叛逃家族，与众家公然为敌，云梦江氏已将其逐出，从此恩断义绝，划清界限。今后无论此人有何动作，一概与云梦江氏无关!

The translation makes it sound like the statement is paraphrased, but in fact, the original gives JC’s entire statement, word for word.

The statement is actually written in a formal register. The feel that I get from this statement, is that it’s very much a PR statement.

I personally feel like the tone of “and was an enemy to the entire cultivation world” is a teeeeny bit off. It sounds like it’s the emphasis or main focus of the sentence, when actually it isn’t. 

In Chinese grammar, you can use commas to make a single longgg run-on line, but in English you have to separate them into sentences. In the Chinese, it’s one clause in a really long and somewhat brisk sentence. As a result, it feels a little more careless and throwaway to me, than carrying some kind of deliberate malevolent intent.

Here’s I would phrase it to try and convey a bit more of the formality, but retaining the run-on quality of the sentence: “After this fight, JC announced to those outside the sect: WWX has defected from the clan, putting himself in open opposition to the clans; YMJ has already expelled this person; from here, we have cut all ties, so henceforth, we would like to draw a clear boundary. In the future, no matter what actions are undertaken by this person, it has nothing to do with YMJ!” *The word 敌 is, in fact, enemy, but I translated it this way because the emphasis is on his action of publicly opposing the main families.

Notably, the majority of the statement is taken word for word from what WWX told him to say. He literally says EXACTLY what WWX told him to say. 

5.1) 3,000 is said to be a greatly exaggerated death count of those who died at the Nightless City

Yes, maybe it was 2,000. Maybe 1,000. Who knows, it could have been 500!

I don’t know how to say this. But 500 is a lot of people. 

Maybe someone will be able to find a canonical reference to actual numbers, but based on the adaptations, I find it difficult to imagine that YMJ was that big (as a great sect) even before it got wiped out. A battle in which 4,000 cultivators were fighting against probably an equal amount of corpses is a MAJOR battle. It could possibly have been nearly the entire population of the cultivation world.

5.2) JC saw that WWX wasn’t the one who killed JYL. He deliberately turned WWX into a target, meanwhile WWX was just trying desperately to do the right thing.

As I said, JC didn’t blame WWX for killing her. He blamed WWX for LOSING CONTROL, and for the cascading series of actions that led to THAT ENTIRE SITUATION becoming a thing. Did I say that was entirely reasonable? That’s why the meta isn’t titled “WHY JC WAS RIGHT AND WWX WAS WRONG” it’s titled “DETANGLING JC’S FEELINGS AND MOTIVATIONS”

JC should have done something instead of standing by! Clearly, he didn’t stand up for WWX because he WANTED them to attack WWX! I’m sorry, but I got the impression that he’s fucking nineteen or twenty years old here, young enough that they still call him 小宗主 (young sect leader). Could the inaction be, idk, because he was young, hadn’t yet made a name for himself, and was overly worried about offending important people? It’s clear that by the time WWX comes back, that has changed, and others are afraid of offending HIM now. But he and WWX were both atrociously young for how much they had to take on. The others in their generation had elders and sects to lean on.

Do I sound ticked off? Honestly, your response has deteriorated in quality and I am having trouble believing that I actually wrote all this out in good faith. MDZS is SO compelling to me because it shows us a “bad person”, a “person who has done wrong”, a “villain by every ethical standard” by presenting us with WWX in the prologue. It then goes on to show us, in detail, how everything went wrong. WWX makes mistakes. He has flaws. But fundamentally, we see his reasons and empathize with him. He’s NOT a villain, and we grow to hate and rally against the people that villainize him. 

And in my opinion, this is MXTX’s main message: It’s easy to point fingers, make moral statements, and convince yourself that you are morally superior by making those condemnations. But by drawing an imaginary line between yourself and some “villain”, by bluffing yourself that “even in bad circumstances, I wouldn’t sink to those depths!” you fool yourself into the false assurance that you are clearly not capable of doing wrong. MDZS forces us to confront the fact that it is human to do bad things, and most of all, it also forces us to confront the fact that WE are also capable of doing bad things. The purpose of MDZS is not condemnation. It is self-reflection.

[ekmerald4]

I think a big part of why Shen Jiu is so resentful towards Yue Qingyuan is that he, Shen Jiu, just can't move on from Yue Qingyuan. It is so humiliating that he is still attached to this man who has made it clear that he does not want him in his life, who has long moved on from him. Yue Qingyuan’s "guilt" in his eyes isn't even guilt, it's pity. He thinks Yue Qingyuan can tell, somehow, and that good kind Qi-ge of course pities him, and nothing hurts his pride more. So, he lashes out. When he lashes out, Yue Qingyuan understands that he has made himself unwanted to Shen Jiu, that his betrayal has lost him any affection Xiao-Jiu ever felt for him.

[veineluvsu]

i find it really sad and concerning that meng mo, a demon that sees pain as a prideful thing, was extremely careful when he asked shen yuan if he wanted to see shen jiu's past memories and was even concerned when shen yuan agreed. he even went, "yo. you sure about that?"

and mind you, he showed portions of shen jiu's backstory because even if shen yuan wanted to see it, he limited it as to not trigger him. which is... highkey really sweet! he was rightfully concerned and even carefully picked out the least traumatic moments...

it just makes me wonder what type of events did meng mo witness to be concerned, and also label the things he did show shen yuan as "not as traumatic", since what shen yuan saw was absolutely not any lesser than traumatic...

[red-garden]

What if instead of pulling Xuan Su to become super powerful, Yue Qi tried a spell that was supposed to let him psychically pilot beasts (think the way WWX passes out and pilots his little paper dolls). He tests it with a dog spirit beast (Tibetan mastiff bc I know what I’m about), and while it works he can’t figure out how to step out of the dog’s body back into his own body. His Shizun still puts his human body in the caves, but it’s in a sleeping beauty style preservation thing.

Yue Qi is not one to let an opportunity to to waste, so Qi-gou runs off to go save Xiao Jiu. Since the dog is a spirit beast, he’s able to break through the Qiu gaurd pretty well and violently kill Qiu Jianluo. Shen Jiu adores his furry savior but doesn’t connect that this giant dog is his gege. Yue Qi doesn’t want Xiao Jiu to see how he failed so hard at cultivation, so he subtly directs Shen Jiu into becoming a rogue cultivator, living off the land as a badass dog+man duo. Eventually Shen Jiu assumes Qi-ge really did die before he could come back, and he falls into a deep depression. Yue Qi sees this and finally decides to pull Shen Jiu back to Cang Qiong to show him that Qi-ge didn’t really die and has been with him the whole time. Shen Jiu becomes a beast taming disciple, and when he’s finally able to enter the caves he finds Yue Qi’s unconscious body. Obviously because this is airplane world, true love’s kiss reverses the spell, and Yue Qingyuan still ends up a human nuclear bomb after absorbing so much energy for so long.

[system4reader]

When reading a novel with a story about real and fake sons, I really wanted the real and fake to fall in love with each other and start dating. Soooo

Shen Yuan is the adopted son of the Shen family. He was adopted because of his resemblance to the missing third son. Yuan received the love of his parents and brothers, but he felt that he did not deserve it. But what about the real one? He should be receiving the love and care of his family, not the Yuan!

Already at university, Yuan begins his search for a real third son. He uses his pocket money to hire a private investigator to investigate an incident from ten years ago. The results are both pleasing and frustrating. It turned out that they were from the same orphanage. But the real Yuan was taken away a month before he arrived at the orphanage, and two weeks later, Yuan was taken away by the Shen family. If only they had come to the shelter 1.5 months earlier!

Then Yuan tries to learn more about the life of the present. It turned out that the real third master's name is Shen Jiu and he was adopted by the Qiu family. It seemed that the boy lived happily in this family, but found messages to the police from a schoolteacher and a nurse said otherwise. Under the clothes, the boy's entire body was covered in beatings. The application was quickly withdrawn and the case was not opened. Yuan is terrified. Why is A-Jiu suffering so much?

He's looking further. Yuan managed to find out that Jiu graduated from high school with honors and is now a first-year student at the university.

Yuan collects the documents from his university and enters the same university and the direction where Jiu entered. His goal was to establish contact with him and bring him back to the Shen family, to return everything that should belong to him.

But he didn't expect to fall in love with Jiu.

[system4reader]

The events of the canon, with one exception: Mu Qingfang was in love with Shen Jiu.

The lords were on good terms. The reclusive Shen Qingqiu even began inviting Mu Qingfang to tea. Lord CanQiao didn't even notice how he had fallen in love with his cold shixiong. The healer kept these feelings a secret. For several years, he hesitated to confess. Qingfang thought there was still time.

And then Shen Qingqiu's qi deviation. Then his changed personality and attitude toward others. Then the death of the shixiong. Then his love for Luo Binghe.

After the events of the canon, Mu Qingfang retreats into seclusion. He continues to handle the affairs of the peak, but transmits everything through his chief disciple. The healer is left alone for the rest of his life, with an unspoken love for a man who is no longer alive. The man closes his eyes for the last time, regretting his hesitation.

Or rather, he thought it was the last time.

Opening his eyes, Mu Qingfang finds himself in his office, with an unfinished report. He quickly notices discrepancies in the decor (why isn't the painting the shixiong gave him hanging on the wall?) and in his physical condition. Does he feel... good? He feels a surge of energy, unusual for an elderly man. His eyes see clearly and... is that his hand? His skin looks so... young.

The healer flies to the mirror. In the reflection, he sees a young man, without wrinkles or gray hair. It's him. But how? He sees the date on the unfinished report. And something clicks in his head. Has he returned to the past? Or is this a cruel dream, the torment of a dream demon, and now everything will turn into his worst nightmare?

Mu Qingfang decides not to think about it. Even if it's a dream, maybe now he can resolve his greatest regret. The healer flies to Qingjing Peak. A storm of emotions rages within him. Fear, hope, love, sadness. He wants to cry. But even more, he wants to see the one he loves.

Mu Qingfang arrives at the bamboo hut just as Shen Jiu's Qi is beginning to deviate. The healer arrives in time and saves the shixiong. He takes care of his beloved, sitting by his bedside, almost constantly. And Shen Qingqiu regains his will to live.

[rue-x3]

Svsss au where after meeting SQQ and seeing how competent he is SQH's like "This is my favorite son" and he's just bestowing his blessings on SQQ and not knowing that they're taking effect. The system hasn't explained that SQH does have some power over this world.

SQH: "Shen Shixiong always makes his reports so detailed and easy to read... I hope he doesn't have any more qi deviations"

and then SQQ is finding it easier to cultivate

SQH: "Shen Qingqiu said what I wanted to say at a meeting, I hope he sleeps well"

and SQQ is able to get the first good sleep he's had outside of the brothel

SQH: "He's having his students make their own instruments to help them feel more connected with their guqins as well as to lower the spending costs on instruments? I hope Liu Qingge doesn't bother Shen Qingqiu today, he deserves a break."

And maybe this time SQQ overhears him but thinks nothing of it. I mean, SQQ just got back from a brothel visit, if LQG doesn't show up to cause problems then the world must be ending... except Liu Qingge doesn't show up, and he doesn't show up for a week because he was out hunting or something.

Now SQQ is wondering if all of these little 'miracles' are caused because of SQH. So he starts spying on SQH ever so slightly and learning that yes, every time Shang Qinghua says something good about him or wishes something good would happen to him, something good does happen.

SQQ is questioning SQH's identity and SQH is nonethewiser. SQH's like "man it's a shame that he's going to get pickled by LBH... He was really good at his job..." in his mind, thinking nothing of it. With each blessing, the heavens are slowly turning towards Shen Qingqiu, transferring the "heaven's favored son" role over bit by bit.

ekekeke idk what I was doing with this one either X3

[beyondknowingbeyondthestars]

Au where Shang Qinghua wrote what he remembered of D&D books into the world of PIDW when he's an outer disciple with more time. Its popular on An Ding for a while before he gets too busy to dm for it and it slowly disappears.

One day some An Ding disciples comes across his old book and goes to him to ask

"Shizun, this game you made... Could you maybe be a dungeon master for some of us...? We're really interested in it!"

Shang Qinghua, who forgot all about it, stares with wide eyes at the book before eagerly snatching it up and agreeing. Of course your shizun will! He hasn't seen this manual in years!! He'll schedule something :D!

A few months later, Shen Qingqiu wanders onto An Ding to chat with Shang Qinghua about something but pauses when he reaches one of the courtyards and hears something.

Getting a little closer, he sees and watches Shang Qinghua, with a group of his little ducklings, eagerly narrating an important story beat, using dramatic voices and hand gestures while he interacts with their characters.

He watches from afar curiously, listening to the story and the voices his strange shidi uses.

Shen Qingqiu wants that. He wants to play that strange game his shidi apparently made. But he doesn't know how to ask. Nor does he believe he'd be allowed to.

But maybe Shang Qinghua notices him when they're finished.

"Ah-! Shen-shixiong how long have you been... Watching me?" He gets embarrassed.

"This shixiong did not know Shidi had time for games." Shen Qingqiu raises a brow over his fan and Shang Qinghua laughs nervously.

"Ah this shidi was just-"

"Hm, shidi needn't get nervous. He is not in trouble with this shixiong, he was simply... Curious about the game."

"Huh? Oh! Shen-shixiong, would you... Like to play with me sometime? Maybe we could gather some hall masters, or other peak lords, or we could go down the mountian to-" He clears his throat. "Or yknow- however you'd be comfortable."

Something something eventually they end up playing with the Jiejie's at the Warm Red Pavilion, with Shang Qinghua once again eagerly doing voices and telling the story, and Shen Qingqiu biting his lip in anger as he realizes he might be falling for his shidi.

[ransackedhouse]

I have a Drabble idea that idk how to write. Shen Qingqiu is the LingXi Caves and finds a ghost wedding tablet for himself and Yue Qingyuan that is clearly from when Yue Qingyuan was a disciple. This leads to a big confrontation, a reveal of what really happened, and of course a real wedding.

[slytherinzidian]

Wei 'i know, you like Mianmian!' Wuxian vs Jiang 'you can't really like her (Mianmian) can you?' Cheng fight

No seriously... the parallel between wwx thinking lwj likes mianmian and jc thinking wwx possibly liked mianmian and being upset about it...

chengxian is alive but it's not kickin thanks to various factors.. chengxian never got the chance but it is REAL and it EXISTS and I am always going to be feral over them and over mxtx's choices for them

[mr-squiggley-poufs]

Liujiu get hit by a plant that makes them share all bodily sensations and lqg immediately drops to the ground writhing in pain

Sj is like "wtf is wrong with you" and lqg responds "wtf is wrong with *you* why does everything hurt so much"

Turns out sj has been dealing with chronic pain his whole life thinking it was completely normal and that's one of the main reasons he's the way he is

Lqg is dumbfounded ("what do you mean it's like this *all the time*" "did you think I could just turn it off you dumb brute") and sj is equally so ("not everyone is in constant agonising pain??????")

Once they cure the wifeplot lqg immediately goes to interrogate mqf on how to fix sj's chronic pain and makes it his life mission to find a way to heal him or at the very least make it less painful

Sj has no idea how to handle his emotions relating to this and it breaks his mind a little bit

Liujiu shenanigans ensue

[rue-x3]

HAI SCUMLINGS :3

Svsss au where Shen Yuan transmigrates as this guy who’s like a pretty strong prodigy rogue cultivator, so strong that his consciousness lingers a little bit after Shen Yuan transmigrates. He makes one request before relinquishing his body to Shen Yuan, and that’s to find his younger sister’s son. The guy’s younger sister had passed while the guy was in seclusion and he was determined to find and take care of his nephew.

Anyways Shen Yuan’s all like “okay yeah, dying guy’s last wish. Plus I stole his body.” and the only thing the guy’s able to tell him is that his sister lived near ___ town, her kid should be around 11 or 12, and she looked nearly identical to him. (It’s pure luck that the guy shares his name & has a close appearance to Shen Yuan. It makes adapting way easier.) So Shen Yuan gets to searching, doing the best he can to gather information on the whereabouts of the kid while adapting to his new life as a cultivator. There’s no luck for a while, so Shen Yuan branches out to neighboring towns.

Well he’s just about to call it quits since the shaky information trail he’d barely managed to form ends in this quiet town, and there’s no sightings of a child that looks anything like him. So Shen Yuan just wanders around the streets for a bit, gets some tanghulu, and lets his mind wander. I mean, the other Shen Yuan couldn’t say that he hadn’t tried to find the kid. He’d gotten quite far for someone that’d been in the world for a total of about 3 months.

Shen Yuan’s shaken from his thoughts as a kid—scrawny thing—barrels into him, looking up with wide nervous eyes before bolting. Shen Yuan’s stare follows the kid before he turns his attention to the direction the kid had been running from. In an alleyway tucked away from the rest of the town Shen Yuan spotted a man hauling two kids away, both of them panicking, fighting, and trying to escape. Slavers, Shen Yuan assumed. He’d seen a few around and wasn’t too thrilled about watching them traffic children. Shen Yuan locked eyes with one of the children, and his eyes widened. It was like looking into a mirror. The boy’s eyes had widened at the sight of Shen Yuan as well—though his attention was quickly brought back to the man grabbing onto his arm.

“If that’s not Shen Yuan’s nephew then I don’t know who could be.” Shen Yuan muttered to himself as he briskly walked over, raising his voice to call out to the men. The man didn’t seem too happy about being interrupted—and quite frankly neither did the other two men that stepped forward, having been deeper in the alleyway—but Shen Yuan didn’t care. Even if he avoided fighting, he was confident he could take all of them down. This body of his wasn’t a well-known rogue cultivator for nothing.

“What are you doing to my nephew?”

The men didn’t answer, looking him up and down before shooting looks at each other. The sword on Shen Yuan’s waist was clearly not for show, and the robes that Shen Yuan wore were certainly not ones that a mortal could afford. With the mentality of worshipping the strong and bullying the weak, the man holding the children let them go, rubbing his hands together as he put on his best fake smile and apologized.

Shen Jiu knew when to take a chance, so he grabbed Yue Qi’s hand and dragged him over to Shen Yuan’s side. He stood behind Shen Yuan, putting on the show of cowering behind him when in reality he was making sure they’d have a good escape route when the encounter ended. Clinging to the leg of someone who had enough influence to make lawless slaver’s act like obedient dogs seemed like a good idea, but if Shen Jiu wasn’t who the man was looking for it was important that they had a good starting position when the slavers gave chase.

“Noble cultivator please don’t misunderstand. We mistook these two for runaway slaves of ours. If we’d known that…”

The man eyed Shen Jiu’s rough appearance, a sneer appearing for a brief moment.

“This one was your esteemed nephew we would’ve never dared to touch him.”

Shen Yuan rolled his eyes, narrowing his eyes and shooting the man a glare. The slavers didn’t seem too happy about lowering themselves any further than this, but before they could get agitated enough to do anything stupid Shen Yuan waved them off, watching them slink away and grumble. He’d pay them a visit with his blade later in the night, right now he had to focus on the matter at hand.

Shen Yuan turned to the children with inspecting eyes, looking at Shen Jiu once more for confirmation before he nodded to himself and crouched down—taking no offense when both of them backed up cautiously—and opened his mouth to ask a question.

“Would you happen to be surnamed Shen?”

[rue-x3]

Shen Yuan transmigrating but he’s like one of those tiny little shoulder angels except he’s not an angel he’s just there advising Shen Jiu. He transmigrated when Shen Jiu was born or something so he’s seen all of these things happen so he does have some sympathy for the scum villain.

Also nobody could see him before Shen Qingqiu’s cultivation leveled up, so he doesn’t know that his own little cultivation went up and that other people (specifically peak lords) can see him now.

He’s just tearing into Qi Qingqi after she yelled at Shen Qingqiu and called him a lecher during a peak lord meeting. She’s just sitting there baffled—as is everyone else present—as they watch Shen Qingqiu flick his fan open to hide a smile as lil’ SY tears her a new one (thinking that she can’t see him, hear him, and doesn’t know he exists)

SY: “Your martial siblings are so dumb it’s pissing me off. You’d think they verify the information they receive before putting it out there. Like yeah we’ve been to the brothel but nobody’s seen you sleeping with anyone—because you’ve never done that there—so where did this whole lecher thing spread?! There are tons of other reasons someone would visit a brothel, if they chose to think negatively and jump to conclusions without verifying it first then they shouldn’t be peak lords. We should run away and just be a rogue cultivator honestly”

And he’s still going while the peak lords have quieted down and are just staring at Shen Qingqiu’s shoulder for a bit before Shen Qingqiu snaps his fan shut and questions why everyone is staring at him. Meanwhile Lil’ SY throws his tiny fan at either Liu Qingge or Qi Qingqi and watches it bounce harmlessly off one of their foreheads as they sit there, bewildered. Neither SQQ nor Lil’ Yuan think that they can see him now. Not yet.

[rue-x3]

OH SNAPPLE YEAH I HAD ANOTHER AU IDEA WHILE I WAS READING

SVSSS AU WHERE SJ DIES AND NOW HE’S LIKE THIS INVISIBLE GHOST JUST HAUNTING YUE QINGYUAN EXCEPT HE SEES THE WAY YQY TRIED TO RETURN AND HOW HE WAS CONFINED AND HE’S FORGIVING AND JUST FOLLOWS HIW QI-GE AROUND

And it makes for HILARIOUS moments where like some other sect offers yqy someone to marry and YQY’s like sorry my wife’ll get jealous and the people are like “what wife? Sect leader Yue Qingyuan there is no need to reject her like this—“ and then the person’s blade floats up on it’s own and presses itself against the woman’s neck (she was also apart of the scheme) and YQY is smiling so politely as he cocks his head slightly and says “That wife.”

YQY is much more lenient with SJ here either out of guilt, protectiveness, or something else and SJ is so spoiled, he’s like a little cat. And nobody can see him besides YQY so he very much has fun bothering the other peak lords that displease him.

He either dislikes LQG because he thinks LQG has the hots for YQY or he’s very slightly interested in LQG but not in a cheater way but more like “I like watching my husband beat the shit out of you in spars and I’m sure he likes seeing that as well so maybe I’ll tolerate you more than others.” Anyways if LQG is involved YQY & SJ are a package deal that he’s jumping to snatch off the shelves.

Thank you and good night

[rue-x3]

Guys I need you guys to see the vision of YQY put in a challenging position like

“You can’t kill me, you’re the sect leader of one of the most righteous sects out there, your cultivation is lawful and just!”

And YQY gives that polite smile before saying something like

“I suppose you have a point. I can’t kill you, my sect is against such things. But my wife (or husband) is not.” or something and then SJ comes through with the killing blow like I need that man decapitated or stabbed in the throat with a pair of embroidery scissors (SJ has taken up a hobby in embroidering YQY’s clothes and YQY is more than pleased about it)

[neo--queen--serenity]

My heart hurts a little when I think about Jin Ling’s behavior in the MDZS extras. How, after the events of the novels, he went out of his way to distance himself from Jiang Cheng, so much so that Wei Wuxian had to be like, “hey man, he’s worried about you, what’s going on?” And it becomes very apparent very quickly that Jin Ling is deeply afraid of public opinion turning on Jiang Cheng if he helps him too much, now that Jin Ling is a sect leader himself. More specifically, he is afraid that people will treat Jiang Cheng the way they treated Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao.

Jin Ling has already had two uncles suffer the consequences of social ostracism and public demonization, and knows how badly it could affect a person when the whole cultivation world turns against them. Of course he was going to try to protect his jiujiu from falling into the same circumstances.

[binghespeerlesscucumber]

De-aging this, de-aging that; no one ever acknowledges that, in a scenario where Shen Qingqiu was de-aged surrounded by all his fellow peak lords, he would find himself surrounded by not only men but the type of rich masters who saw a slave like him as nothing but a plaything to humiliate and spit on at best and a punching bag to torture at worst, just like that wretched Qiu Jianluo; consequently he would—to her horror—run to the only woman in the room, Qi Qingqi.

[cryptidstatusbreached]

Okay but now imagine the whiplash at him hiding behind her like he's trying to make her a shield between him and the men. Imagine one of the other peak lords steps forward and for the first time they see the aloof and haughty cold-hearted scholar Shen QingQiu flinch at something and he grabs onto her skirts to try and hide behind her better

[vi-reads]

QQQ definitely has had disciples with similar behaviors. Who never leave the Peak without a solid Group. Helped mortals with similar behaviors when they dared approach her Fairies, never other cultivators, For A Reason. (Definitely something a women-only Peak includes in their training/studies. Their sect accepts disciples on Merit Despite Background! Even if many are still Biased. There's definitely been plenty of little ladies who ran there just like Qi-ge did. Whether they are all good at clocking it...)

She is shocked to see it in a miniaturized SQQ, but perhaps its a habit, an instinct, a reflex, to shift at least a little bit to better shield and hide whoever Reacts Like That. It was so quick and sudden!

Seeing/feeling the reaction to THAT. Little SJ calming slightly when he is better hidden from everyone else, or flinching when one of the Men try to peer around her, or start Shouting. Clinging less tightly when she steps back, herding him away from everyone else and closer to a wall perhaps, maybe leaning against her a little but breathing a little more calmly. Trembling even as he hides it desperately, she can still Feel it that close.

Yeah. All her hackles are up, Very Sus, but. She's not Stupid! Something is Very Very Off and she damn well wants to know What Is This Shit! What the fuck!

If nothing else, she's not gonna get answers by letting all these Stubborn Men crowd this petrified small being hiding behind her. Shoo! Back off!

Just asking his name would clue them in that at the very least he does not remember becoming Peak Lord, or even Head Disciple. Asking if he knows their names and not even getting their old personal ones puts it even further back.

But what would he even say to such questions when he only knows being a frightened young slave child? Only sees Fancy Masters around, asking him Questions, at least someone being Cranky/Mad/Hostile? The closest thing to servants present are Also Fancy! (Disciples) That doesn't help him figure out what's going on!

If QQQ asks, tho, he'd probably use very respectful lady-you-don't-know-but-is-Fancy sort of titles and such. Whether or not he feels safe, she's the safest person in the room, to him, so he's got the sense to automatically be nicer/polite. He's spitting mad at everyone else's existence right now, but being too vocal about that carelessly can get him Killed and he'd Know That.

If their Head Disciples are present or nearby, perhaps LMY has stepped closer already. For good or ill, that scrawny shrunken Peak Lord is clinging to her Shizun. Best be close to help in whichever direction this goes, hm? Having TWO jiejies essentially bracketing him? SJ is a bit wide eyed by now. Overwhelmed. This is Very Scary and A Lot!

Ofc, having LMY that close is gonna set off LQG even more. Man is NOT helping. Too cranky, too loud, too openly angy. But if anyone can tell him to Be Quieter and have it Work, its probably his baby sister. (Agreeing with his concerns or not, Gege is Not Helping!) Which. Earns some more wide eyed awe from baby SJ. Fancy Jiejies are maybe also Cranky BUT can and did make the Men back off and quiet down?! He'll put up with them being cranky and mean at him if they keep being so effective at keeping the Men away! He's scared and traumatized and a Survivor! Better sharp tongued cranky Jiejies than Men! Especially Fancy Masters!

Female servants, slaves, and even family members of Masters couldn't always do anything to help him, wouldn't risk it or even be Nice, but they generally didn't hurt him. So QQQ being harsh and cranky at first isn't entirely a shock or a dealbreaker, even if its less than thrilling. As long as she doesn't try to shove him back at the Men, even if she rips her skirts out of his hands and doesn't want him touching her... as long as she lets him stand with her between little SJ and the Masters he'll take it.

(And he definitely, DEFINITELY thinks YQY is Qi-ge's sperm donor or relative, not Qi-ge. So fancy and big and Healthy! Can't possibly be Qi-ge. Maybe if they could convince him he too is Older and Healthier and just got shrunk by an artifact he'd consider it. He'd agree that if Qi-ge is the Sect Boss of COURSE Xiao Jiu is his second, his strategist, the one most expected and positioned to argue with him and tell him when he's being an idiot. Its the only conceivable way Qi-ge being in charge of Anything would ever work! Qi-ge can be the Approachable Face but his Xiao Jiu is right at his back to make sure no Stupid happens! No backstabbing (of them)!)

[binghespeerlesscucumber]

About the last bit, I don’t think they would have a chance to even try and explain this to Shen Jiu—at least when it initially happens.

Keep his perspective in mind: last thing he remembers he’s a slave child and now he woke up surrounded by rich lords. He must’ve been sold! And he doesn’t remember anything in between so they probably drugged him for easier transportation; he’s seen often enough how people completely black out from various substances in the back alleys behind brothels and bars.

Not to mention, given his paranoia (which i believe was already present in his childhood at least to some extent given how vigilant and snappy he was from the very beginning), he probably tends to catastrophise.

Jiu was his slave number, Qingqiu must be what these people renamed him as a marker of their property.

Everyone is screaming, laughing, staring, babbling, pointing, all around him. Even for someone as smart as Shen Jiu, that kind of situation is entirely overwhelming and overstimulating. Especially for a child. He’s basically been teleported into an overstimulation torment nexus. The chaos doesn’t allow him to properly assess the situation. All he can see is that all these rich lords are ogling him like an object, like a toy.

For this part I feel like I’m not familiar enough with his character but i imagine he’d either bolt (and immediately regret it) since all his brain can compute in the moment is that he’s not safe or he’d shut down trying to process the onslaught of information.

Fight (of fight flight freeze or faun) may be his default response but those are levels of human stress response and this is a lot more than what he usually has to deal with. Again, overstimulation torment nexus.

Either way, whatever the men have to say is going in one ear and out the other, simply because it’s too much to process immediately.

Now back to Qi Qingqi; she could explain the situation to him but his (re)actions have peaked her interest and drawn her attention.

That little gremlin may be Shen fucking Qingqiu overall but right now he’s a perfect little window to her hated Shixiong‘s overly concealed past who also happens to spark mild concern of an all too familiar type. He’s clearly not comfortable with all the other Peak Lords so, as a dutiful sect sibling and the only viable option, she simply must step up and take him to stay on her peak for the time being as unbearably awful it may be! Mingyan play along. Besides, Shen Qingqiu is banned not Shen Jiu (I think? I don’t remember when he was banned but most probably past becoming peak lord so this should be correct).

Time for interrogation with quickly growing mixed feelings.

One scenario I’d find particularly interesting requires Shen Jiu to not have a clean cut off if his memories, it’s a bit messier. He’s lacking some memories he should have based on the age his body regressed to and he has some that should be in the future from his perspective.

Now, sexual violence happens extraordinarily often between romantic partners. Qi Qingqi has too often encountered girls who stayed in abusive situations far too long hoping their partner would change only for them to one day up and leave never to be seen again.

Shen Jiu, in his confusion, would keep mentioning „Qi-Ge“ and how they used to cuddle everyday. How it was very nice because of how much older and bigger „Qi-Ge“ was. Very unfortunate word choice à la ✨ miscommunication ✨.

Qi Qingqi doesn’t charge that his memory is all jumbled up. She’s asking leading questions trying to get at a specific topic, doesn’t know anything about his past to cross reference, and Shen Jiu is a very good lier quickly covering up any discrepancies in order to not get into trouble.

Qi Qingqi builds up a very specific image of that „Qi-Ge“ in her mind during her questioning.

And then Shen Jiu drops one „Xiao-Jiu“.

Theres only one person who calls him Xiao-Jiu. One who Shen Qingqiu hates with a passion.

[cryptidstatusbreached]

Uh oh, sect leader's gonna get murdered if the other peak lords don't stop her because the little bean is saying things in a way that can leave a very wrong impression. Well, oops, so sad, hopefully QingQi-jie will be able to make up for taking away Qi-ge from the bean

[binghespeerlesscucumber]

Qi Qingqi lying in bed at night, unable to meditate or sleep, thinking about all the behaviors and interactions she’s watched between the two over the years:

Aversion to touch,„Xiao-Jiu“ despite being told not to call him that 473 times and counting (she had a score board), expensive gifts, apologetic fake smiles, „I’m sorry“s, literal harassment with how often the sect leader stands on the other‘s doorstep, the brothels (hypersexuality as a coping mechanism in response to SA????), the list is looong.

„It all makes sense now“ (she’s wrong on every single train of thought)

[cryptidstatusbreached]

She's going to be so protective by the time he turns back and he's going to have no idea how it happened but at least someone is on his side now even if his paranoia says that he absolutely can't trust it at all

[binghespeerlesscucumber]

I’d like to rope Mu Qingfan in onto this whole mess too. I think he’d be the first to catch on to what’s happening. He’s seen this behavior in his own patients and he’s definitely seen how Qi Qingqi gets with this type of patient.

I feel like he’d get quite sad for a good bit, having his decade long suspicions confirmed

Or

Since they barely interacted during all their time as sect siblings, he’d beat himself up over completely missing the signs—in part bc he’s used to mostly seeing this in girls.

Either way the cinnamon roll gets soggy.

Meanwhile Liu Qingge in the background feeling like the entire mountain is playing soccer with his brain. What the hell is going on??

[cryptidstatusbreached]

To make it even worse and doubly confusing for everyone else, once Qi QingQi shares her suspicions with Mu QingFang the two do everything they can to make sure Yue QingYuan is never alone with Shen QingQiu.

At some point one of the other peak lords notices how those two do nothing to stop Shen QingQiu from being alone with anyone else. It's only the sect leader they interfere with. And it's clear that this is protective towards Shen QingQiu, not Yue QingYuan, so just ehat the hell did those two find out?

[binghespeerlesscucumber]

Generally I believe Mu Qingfan is rational enough to not jump to conclusions like this and try to get both sides of the story first except—cycling back to the idea of Shen Jiu recognizing Yue Qingyuan as Qi-Ge‘s sperm donor who abandoned or sold him—he’d see Shen Jiu‘s reaction to the sect leader and see it as confirmation. So little and already recognizing him as a threat! He was so young when it happened!!

Yue Qingyuan clearly having waited for Qi Qingqi to head to Qian Cao to immediately insert himself in the conversation including the healer really doesn’t help his case.

Also, the next character to be involved is Shang Qinghua. That one’s really having an aneurysm over the derailed plot.

[gusu-emilu]

if there's one thing to take away from MXTX's novels, it's 1) don't trust hearsay and 2) don't trust the narrator either

in TGCF, i feel like the most obvious example is how we're constantly told that the Palace of Ling Wen is so inefficient, when in reality, she is so useful and effective that Xie Lian literally instinctively calls Ling Wen for help against...Ling Wen.

in MDZS, most of the rumors we hear are eventually shown to be false (or at least only partially true). there's a whole brand of meta in the fandom just showing how what the novel tells us about characters can't be taken at face value. (Jiang Cheng being a notable example)

in SVSSS, well. We have Shen Yuan, point made.

in some sense i feel like MXTX's narration style can feel like listening to the Headshaker, saying "I don't know, that's just what this guy said, I'm just here for the numbers" when we know there's much more going on beneath the surface