Im So Fucking Tired Of Endos

Being a system is not an identity. It’s a mental disorder. Stop invading our community. We have suffered enough, stop role-playing our suffering.

[sotiredofendos]

WE ALL CHEERED!!!!!

YEEEHAWWWWW WE BACK BITCHESSSSSSS

[anti-endo-yixi]

⋆˙꒦🩸꒷

"Endos are real!! Go read this source that was very much NOT made by a medical professional and is also extremely biased!!" Go read the fucking DSM-5 before ever interacting with us again you stupid bitch 🥹

⌣⌣⌣⌣⌣୨୧⌣⌣⌣⌣⌣

[chaos-in-one]

If you are trying to fakeclaim endogenic systems, and your way of doing so ends up also fakeclaiming large portions of traumagenic systems, that is your cue to rethink the things you are saying, regardless of your opinions on endos.

Related to that, I am once again yelling from the rooftops that DID is not the only dissociative disorder that causes alters. OSDD-1 and P-DID both have that as symptoms. UDD can also include alters in its criteria, as it is largely a placeholder diagnosis, or used when the person making a diagnosis does not want to specify another diagnosis for one reason or another- and even when it isn't used for those purposes, can still include dissociative phenomena that some may label as alters for themselves.

[sotiredofendos]

Endos claim to have NO disorder. Not just a "disorder beyond DID which has the symptoms of alters". They say they have NO DISORDER AT ALL causing their alters. That is literally not possible. Also want to add there is no "OSDD-1". It's OSDD. OSDD-1(a/b) are not actual diagnoses. DDNOS-1a and 1b were in the DSM 4. The DSM 5 is OSDD. P-DID is in the ICD-11, and is very similar to a diagnosis of OSDD. UDD is a placeholder as you said, it has no symptoms beyond symptoms of other dissociative disorders. In all of this, these are mental illnesses. Endos claim they have no illness causing their "systemhood".

[sotiredofendos]

Genuine question here:

Why don't endos just be polyminds ? This is exactly what I have been wanting the endo community to do. A community completely distinguished from CDDs, they don't use CDD terms, nor relate themselves to systems in any way. And yet, they still are their own community, with their own ideas and way of living that isn't making a mockery of a serious disorder(s), nor spreading misinformation about said disorder(s).

Polyminds are actually so fucking cool. I genuinely do not understand why endos don't just identify as polymind. That would solve this entire issue.

No more stealing terms that refer to a disorder and muddying up the definitions, no more invading spaces for traumatised individuals, no more spreading of serious misinformation.

And, best part, they get their own entire community ! Maybe most endos just don't know about polyminds. You can check out info about polyminds here

[endogenic-cringe]

Endos are kind of like some guy showing up at a therapy circle and saying "I don't have trauma but sometimes I flinch at loud noises, and that's kind of like a trauma response, we have so much in common :)"

[mental-illness-bingo]

Agree with the concept, but I’d say it’s worse than that. At least flinching at loud noises is a negative reaction.

Endos want to access trauma spaces, trauma resources, support intended for traumatized systems, etc. and they don’t care that they don’t need it (assuming they are the ones who push that they don’t have trauma - I’m not referring to the ones who are confused and don’t push to be in spaces who just don’t remember any trauma). And then they want to play in those spaces like what they’re talking about isn’t serious.

Endos are the abled people at Walmart who play with the motorized wheelchairs and do races in the aisles with them.

Endos are the people who say that if service dogs can be in stores, their pet should be able to too, since loving them and having normal stress is “basically emotional support”

Endos are the non-sensory sensitive people who go into sensory safe rooms to play with the “toys” and loudly laugh and mess around and make the space louder than outside.

Endos are the kids who want a bandaid because they saw someone else with one, except in children that’s normal connection seeking behavior that comes from a lack of neurological ability to comprehend equity vs equality yet. It’s better to give them a bandaid but explain to them why they can’t have one every time another kid does so you’ll get some stickers that look like bandaids for them. That’s why I’m more understanding of “endo” kids. They need to learn better and deserve a kind explanation, just like kids doing any of the above. They need to be redirected.

But the problem is, most endos are or claim to be grown adults. When grown adults do any of the above (besides the bandaid) they get *kicked out of the space involved*. When they do it repeatedly, they get banned from that place entirely.

There’s a reason we don’t tolerate you, endos. You played in our spaces with our resources that are meant for those with serious disorders you say you don’t have. That’s unacceptable, and when you act that way you become unwelcome in that space. And that’s why we are responding the way we are right now.

Go to the massive rest of the place that belongs to you and leave. CDD. Systems. Alone. Literally go to the tags you made for yourselves and play there. Just fuck off of trauma spaces. The system community wasn’t built by you or for you. It was built by and for people with complex trauma you can’t even begin to comprehend if you don’t have any trauma.

I don’t care at this point if endos are or aren’t real despite the fact that science *clearly* says they aren’t; I care that they have no fucking respect for anyone else.

[monochromettv]

I'm reblogging this again because God it's such a perfect post, 10/10

[starstruck-sillies]

"Transautistics aren't making a mockery of autism!" = "Endos aren't making a mockery of systems!" "Radqueer ideas help fight all sorts of bigotry" = "Pro endo ideas help fight anti-system rhetoric" "What Trasrace people do/identify as doesn't affect you!" = "What endogenics do/identify as doesn't affect you!" "You don't know a Transabled person's experiences better than they do!" = "You don't know an endo's experiences better than they do!" "Why do you care if a Tramsharmed does something dangerous, it's their choice!" = "Why do you care if a willo makes a headmate, it's their choice!"

I'm just saying, pro endos talk a lot about how we have very similar logic to transmeds, meanwhile they make arguments that are near identical to radqueer arguments.

These are all arguments I've heard from both radqueers and endos, having been in quite a few of both spaces just to see if I was wrong about either.

Note: I'm not by any means saying that pro endos are "basically radqueers". Trust me, one is significantly worse in ever possible way, and I assure you it's not the endos that are the most dangerous. I've seen plenty of both, and know better than anyone that saying they're basically the same thing is extremely ignorant of what actually goes on in both communities.

I'm just trying to get people to talk about this in a more nuanced way. If pro endos can talk about how similar we are to transmeds, we can talk about their similarities with radqueers. Seriously, can we PLEASE talk about this in a more nuanced way than "Anti endos = transmeds!! EVIL!!!!" This isn't as airtight of an argument as yall think it is.

[xnightmaresystem]

Guys I just made the subreddit r/systemcringeiscringe in direct opposition of r/systemcringe.

So for those who think that subreddit is a despicable, lazy attempt at masking blatant ableism and vitriolic system hatred as “defending the truth”, you now have a place to rant about them, or even to reply to their posts. However, don’t go on any witch-hunts or demean the users there for anything other than their ableism and misinformation, that should be the primary focus of posts !!

This subreddit is not going to be for endogenic systems, or to promote endo beliefs. This is purely for DID/OSDD systems and to debunk myths/misinformation about these disorders.

[sotiredofendos]

I just want to put out a reminder for anyone who identifies as anti-endo, or is against endogenic systems (as an anti-endo myself):

Be against the action, not the person. What most of us dislike is the ableism and misinformation that is caused by the endogenic community. We shouldn’t be hating the individuals, simply as individuals. We should be purely against ableism and misinformation. I truly, personally believe a lot of endos are a victim of this movement as well. I think there are many people who self-identify as endogenic, who truly do suffer from a CDD, who believe they don’t have one because their trauma “wasn’t bad enough”. They believe the misinformation that if you don’t have this world shattering trauma, you don’t have DID/OSDD, but instead you’re “endogenic”. This means a person actually suffering from a CDD won’t ever get the help they need, and will chronically feel invalidated about their trauma. I also think there are a lot of people who identify as endogenic who have no disorder at all, who think they’re systems because regular experiences are being made to seem abnormal. Teens struggling to figure themselves out ? Oh, you must be multiple people. Having different personalities around different groups of people, or at different times ? Oh, that must be alters. Being forgetful ? Oh, must be amnesia because you’re a system. I think we should try to show some compassion to these people. A lot of them are truly mislead by the notion this absolutely anyone can be a system.

[sotiredofendos]

Hey guys, just a daily reminder that feeling like you have multiple people within you, or that you become different people at different times, is identity dissociation (unless affected by a different disorder, such as psychosis). It is not normal. You cannot claim to experience being a system, without also saying you experience identity dissociation.

(:

[thecircularsystem]

I think it’s important to clarify that dissociation is not always pathological, not always trauma based, and is in fact an incredibly normal part of human existence! Dissociation is something all individuals do; only when it becomes distressing or dysfunctional could it begin to be classified as disordered, and to the degree that I think OP means, it would fall into dissociative disorder categories (like DP/DR or DID, as examples).

[sotiredofendos]

Yes, specifically when talking about identity dissociation, it is pathological, and not what would be considered normal dissociation. This does not happen to an individual without reason, and that reason being a disorder.

[thecircularsystem]

There are actually multiple examples listed in the DSM of non-pathological identity disruptions, such as imaginary friends, mediumship, or possession. These are considered non-disordered.

For something to be considered a disorder, it must be distressing or cause dysfunction. If it does not fulfill those requirements, it isn’t a disorder. To claim otherwise is to water down the definition of disorder to, “Anything deemed not normal by society,” which is how we ended up with things like homosexuality in the DSM. There’s a reason the distress criteria was added far more blatantly to diagnoses.

[sotiredofendos]

I would heavily argue that identity dissociation causes dysfunction. Also cool list, but I specifically said believing that you are multiple people. Not imaginary friends. There is no evidence to suggest your brain can naturally decide to dissociate to such a degree, you lose your sense of identity and it is fragmented. And if that’s not what a person is experiencing, it’s not a system. A symptom also does not actively need to be causing distress in order for a diagnosis to be maintained. People with DID who go through recovery still have it in their medical records for reference, or in case it is needed in the future.

[sotiredofendos]

Hey guys, just a daily reminder that feeling like you have multiple people within you, or that you become different people at different times, is identity dissociation (unless affected by a different disorder, such as psychosis). It is not normal. You cannot claim to experience being a system, without also saying you experience identity dissociation.

(:

[thecircularsystem]

I think it’s important to clarify that dissociation is not always pathological, not always trauma based, and is in fact an incredibly normal part of human existence! Dissociation is something all individuals do; only when it becomes distressing or dysfunctional could it begin to be classified as disordered, and to the degree that I think OP means, it would fall into dissociative disorder categories (like DP/DR or DID, as examples).

[sotiredofendos]

Yes, specifically when talking about identity dissociation, it is pathological, and not what would be considered normal dissociation. This does not happen to an individual without reason, and that reason being a disorder.

[sotiredofendos]

Hey guys, just a daily reminder that feeling like you have multiple people within you, or that you become different people at different times, is identity dissociation (unless affected by a different disorder, such as psychosis). It is not normal. You cannot claim to experience being a system, without also saying you experience identity dissociation.

(:

[draxons-farm]

Dr Colin Ross is an expert in DID and has said in emails that he believes you can experience multiplicity without trauma or a disorder.

Dr. Eric Yarbrough has said you can be plural without trauma or a disorder, and this was in a peer-reviewed book published by the American Psychiatric Association

Why should we believe you when you say endogenic systems aren't real instead of believing the professionals?

Numerous other experts have also said that endogenic systems aren’t real, so why should I believe these two guys?

I’ve also said numerous times that even if you can be plural without a CDD, you shouldn’t be in CDD spaces or be using their terms. Because they are inherently different. So no, endogenic systems aren’t real, because “system” is a CDD exclusive term.

Why do you people not only choose to actively ignore DNI’s to harass mentally ill people? (And yes, when someone tells you not to interact with them, and you do anyway, that IS harassment, so don’t try it). Why do you have such a problem with traumatized people asking for people not to use their terms for their disability?

It’s giving ableism. It’s giving “we don’t care about your mental health, we need to tell you that you’re wrong.”

Me explaining my stance and my reasoning for it in no way is me trying to force you to believe me. I actually don’t give a rat’s left testicle if you believe me. You are a stranger. You mean literally nothing to me or my life. I just want you fuckers to stay the fuck away from me. So kindly respect that, and fuck all the way off.

[sotiredofendos]

Reblogging with info (I also commented it)

From what I can see online, Dr Colin Ross (who is now 70 years old) was only the former president of the International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation from 1993 to 1994. He has produced no studies or research in relation to endogenic plurality. An email stating it might be possible, is neither evidence nor research. It is simply a baseless claim that requires evidence and research. Dr. Eric Yarbrough is not a dissociative disorder specialist. On his own website, he has stated "My career has been focused on the LGBTQ population". He lists his specialties as: "Treatment of depression; anxiety; mood; and psychotic symptoms; LGBTQ-affirming psychotherapy; Gay men’s mental health needs; LGBTQ relationship issues; Coming Out to family, friends, or work; Questioning and exploration of sexual orientation; Sex Therapy - All sexual orientations and gender identities; Substance use concerns including opioid treatment; Professional work stress". I'm not sure why a psychiatrist, who doesn't specialize in either dissociation or PTSD, would talk in a book about DISORDERS, about a supposed non-disordered experience ? I actually got a PDF of the book: "The American psychiatric association publishing textbook of psychiatry 7th edition". I read the entire 40 page section on DID/dissociative disorders. Not once did it mention anything along the lines of "you can be plural without trauma or a disorder." In fact, there is an entire section about trauma and dissociation linked to DID. Here is literally the FIRST sentence: "In 1930, Italian psychiatrist Giovanni Enrico Morselli described the history, diagnosis, and treatment of his patient Elena, one of the most remarkable cases of DID ever published, highlighting the disorder’s relationship to early childhood trauma". Here is more: "Chronic exposure to trauma can lead not only to acute stress disorder and PTSD but also to one of the dissociative disorders (Spiegel and Cardeña 1991)"

More great quotes: "In a study using positron emission tomography, DID individuals and matched DID-simulating healthy control subjects underwent an auto biographical script-driven imagery paradigm in hypoaroused and hyperaroused identity states (Reinders et al. 2014). As in two previous studies of PTSD dissociative subtypes, Reinders et al. found activation of the rostral/dorsal anterior cingulate, the prefrontal cortex, and the amygdala and insula in the DID group. However, they also found that in DID subjects, the hypoaroused identity state activated the prefrontal cortex, cingulate, posterior association areas, and parahippocampal gyri, thereby overmodulating emotion regulation; the hyperaroused identity state activated the amygdala and insula as well as the dorsal striatum, thereby under modulating emotion. These findings provide further evidence that DID is related to PTSD, because hypo aroused and hyperarousal states in DID and PTSD are similar." "Given the current evidence, DID as a diagnostic entity cannot be explained as a phenomenon created by iatrogenic influences, suggestibility, malingering, or social role taking (Şar et al. 2017). On the contrary, DID is an empirically robust chronic psychiatric disorder based on neurobiological, cognitive, and interpersonal non integration as a response to unbearable stress" DID, OSDD, and dissociation are linked to PTSD and trauma. Endos wiggle their way out of this by claiming not to have a disorder. Well, if you're going to claim you have none of those, you also cannot claim to have its symptoms. They try to wiggle their way out of that as well by claiming that it's not an alter it's "an autonomous entity that can take control of the person at will". What you are describing is an alter, which is only seen in DID and OSDD, or perhaps something related to psychosis, or spirituality/culture practice. Honestly, if you guys just claimed it was a spiritual experience, I wouldn't care as much. I'd still think you are wrong, because I do not believe in spirituality, but I'd understand why you so fervently demand it is so. You do not experience systemhood or alters without some kind of disorder.

[draxons-farm]

Saying endogenic systems aren’t real, is not the same thing as telling someone they’re not actually a system.

I honestly do believe that most of them are real systems, but they’re misinformed/just plain wrong about how their system formed.

We’re not fake claiming you, you guys just wanna scream that because you know fake claiming is wrong. But we’re not saying you’re not a system, we’re saying you’re not “endogenic”. Because endogenic systems aren’t real.

If you can’t understand the difference, that’s a you problem.

[systemtraumadumping]

Hello all of you lovely people ! ❤️

I’ve been thinking about this for a while, but I’ve finally decided to open up my own system discord server !

My goal is to provide a place for those with CDDs to seek community, support, resources, and education about CDDs !

My server contains a plethora of articles, studies, resources, and information about DID, OSDD, C-PTSD and more ! Please note, we are not professionals, and we can only assist as a fellow person with this disorder

The server also has a venting channel (equipped with a confession bot for anonymity when desired) for all of your venting needs. We allow vents of all kinds, just as we do on this blog. This is a safe space where no experience is too small or too big to seek support for.

We also provide an adult-only space, and little space (for little alters, not for bodily children !)

We have a wide array of selectable roles for CDDs, other disorders and disabilities, as well as aesthetic roles !

Who is this server for?

This server is strictly for those suffering with a CDD (complex dissociative disorder). This means DID/OSDD/UDD ! Our server is not for endogenic systems or mixed origin systems. We do allow singlets who have friends or loved ones who suffer from a CDD to learn more and to support their loved ones ! This server is strictly anti-transID, anti-radqueer, anti-proship, and anti-“narc abuse” ! This is a neurodivergent safe space, for all neurodivergent people

Please note, this server is 16+

Please consider joining, we would love to have you here !

Check out the ☽ Moonlit Skies ☾ community on Discord – hang out with 16 other members and enjoy free voice and text chat.

[sotiredofendos]

Check out my new discord server for CDD systems only ! We are strictly anti-endo (we also do not allow mixed origin or traumaendo systems), anti transID, anti-rq and anti-proship. 16+ only !

[sotiredofendos]

I literally see endos the same as someone shoving earplugs into their ears, and claiming they're HoH/Deaf, demanding to be part of the Deaf community, and that "science actually backs up them being HoH/Deaf"

[sotiredofendos]

One thing I won’t ever understand is the endos who claim not to have dissociation or identity confusion, or that it’s not necessary to be “plural” or have a system/alters. I mean this genuinely, what the fuck do they think alters are ? Alters ARE dissociated self states, alters ARE identity confusion. Alters aren’t just these people running around in your head, they are parts of you that are dissociated. They aren’t souls who can posses you, they are you, they are all part of your brain — separated by dissociation, amnesia and identity confusion. Without that, there is absolutely no difference between you and another alter in your system, besides just deciding to call yourself by a different name and identity at certain times. Is that what endos are ??

Like actually wtf do endos think alters are

[melancholy-lullabies]

Hot take if a space claims to br safe for all origin systems it's only safe for endos.

No sign off this time:)