What is your thoughts on the whole “Thjazi is abusive” discussion/discourse going around?
This is a bit of a longer post, but the short answer is that I think it's entirely possible that Thjazi was cruel or apathetic towards certain people, including Bolaire, and that it wouldn't compromise the story in any way, but I am not convinced that Bolaire has told the whole story about that. However, I don't think the terms "abusive" or "abuser" are useful in this context.
Massive plot and character spoilers for Cloudward, Ho! under the cut.
For those less familiar with Brennan's prior DMing, Cloudward Ho! was one of the recent Dimension 20 seasons that Brennan DM'd on Dropout.tv. That season is particularly relevant to why I think Thjazi acting horribly is on the table.
Cloudward, Ho! was a season of a pulp adventure late-1800s-ish steampunk novel played in D&D. Decades back, Comfrey MacLeod became a world-famous adventurer and inventor. She created the first flying machine, then recruited a crew to explore the world, frequently saving it in the process, and one of the crew wrote novels based on them, making them all famous. Years later, the PCs are the core members of her old crew, now coming out of retirement because Comfrey's granddaughter and the grandson of her primary financier discovered a SOS message from Comfrey that she needed help and had found the fabled lost continent of Zood. The audience is essentially in the same boat as the two youngest PCs as we gradually learn the truth of Comfrey's adventures and her relationships with her old crew.
The PCs go on many adventures in their attempts to find Comfrey, eventually traveling to Zood and beyond. Comfrey is constantly one step ahead, having fled danger and leaving clues. As the PCs catch up, they find more and more information confirming that Comfrey has not changed: she legitimately does save the world as often as she can and at great risk to herself and her crew, but she also invites danger by making deals with nefarious organizations, taking their money, and running when they come to collect, often causing incredible collateral damage to others. One of those factions nearly ended the world, and she had no idea.
Brennan did a very gradual build of discordant information about Comfrey. All of the recordings and writings were full of energy, zest for life and adventure, and encouraged her granddaughter to follow in her footsteps. However, people who knew her had a wide variety of opinions. Comfrey's son was a recluse and obsessed with safety, and his daughter simply didn't understand why he wasn't interested in adventure like she was. Marya, Comfrey's protoge and former captain, was on a suicidal quest of revenge, believing that she had offended the spirits for taking to the skies because her own protoge had died, and she blamed Comfrey for saving her life in the accident when it happened. Daisuke, Comfrey's former husband, felt abandoned because Comfrey had treated him like a dog who needed to retire. Van, one of Comfrey's closest crewmates, lost her arm on a mission to find Zood and was left behind after Comfrey made her a mechanical arm. Monty, the author of the books, quietly resented Comfrey's irresponsibility and ego. The NPCs that met Comfrey were all treated as either useful or distractions, but her sheer charisma usually got her more help than not.
It's about halfway through the campaign before the granddaughter discovers one of Comfrey's notes where she rather cruelly criticizes her old crew in an explanation why she had not brought them with her to Zood. Until then, everything could have been disregarded as bitterness or jealousy that had fermented in the decades that passed. The truth was that Comfrey was not just a hero; she had put herself before everyone else, including her loved ones. She was egotistical to the point that she felt Monty had unfairly gotten rich and famous off of her adventures. Her son was a coward in her eyes and not worth visiting; Comfrey only went to visit her granddaughter in the hopes that she would take flight after her. Daisuke was past his prime. Comfrey had some regret towards what happened with Marya and Van, but didn't really care to give them closure or a chance to pursue it.
Comfrey wasn't a villain in the story. The PCs finally catch up, there is an explosion of emotion and dialogue, including some incredibly cruel statements by Comfrey--and they agree to work together. Comfrey is forced to face the harm she caused to everyone, and they have tough conversations about it, but don't really forgive and forget. While she dies in the final battle, it wasn't some grandiose heroic sacrifice. She just rolled badly and died. The PCs got their chance to reconcile, and the story was that the next generation learned from her mistakes.
That was the season that aired in 2025 during the gap between C3 and C4. Comfrey was not a good person, but she also wasn't evil. Calling her an abuser isn't a helpful label for addressing her themes. The horrid way she treated people who loved her didn't change that she literally saved the world numerous times. The fact that she loved them enough to reconcile didn't change that she had been too absorbed in her adventures to realize the threats she'd left in her wake.
So, having seen that season before C4, I am of the belief that Thjazi is yet another take on the complex hero. I would not be shocked in the least if Bolaire is being truthful about everything he's said about Thjazi.
I don't think that would take away from the story. I think it just means that it's a different story than what people expect of Brennan. As I've said a handful of times, Thjazi's story is that he failed. He died before he could achieve his goals, and the only reason he's still around is sheer chance. He doesn't have agency as Julien's shadow. He can't communicate. C4 is not a story that the PCs need to be like Thjazi because the opening scene showed us that being like Thjazi gets you killed too soon. I like this set up because Thjazi achieves narrative weight that is usually assigned to villains: he's an example of what not to do. The story is figuring out where he made the wrong choices.
That said, even if he did everything that Bolaire claims, calling Thjazi an "abuser" doesn't help interpret the story. When it comes to analysis, labels are useful when they have an agreed-upon definition. Using a word like abuser brings in a ton of baggage for anyone who reads it, and it becomes a discussion of, "Well, he's an abuser, so X must also be true." That drifts away from analyzing the story as is.
I don't think any of it makes Thjazi evil, even if Bolaire is 100% right. Bolaire is such a unique type of character that I cannot blame Thjazi for reacting poorly while still also allowing Bolaire his freedom. Bolaire still got to live the life he wanted. Whatever Thjazi's opinions or behaviors were, he didn't take away the things Bolaire wanted most. There was some level of trust there.
There's also the possibility that Bolaire and Thjazi deeply misunderstood each other to the point that they each thought the other was holding one over them. We don't know the details of how they actually worked together. Thimble does, but she hasn't been the type to blab about that sort of thing.
As for what I hope: I would really like it if Thjazi was that terrible to Bolaire. Brennan handled that wonderfully with Comfrey, and I'd like to see that come in again.
Much of C4 has been pointing out that every person, no matter how flawed or selfish or petty, can contribute to a revolution. Murray's a great example: she was so flabbergasted that Thjazi thought to ask Hal to help her because Murray thinks she's a shit person. She steals from the school she works at despite that it would obviously negatively impact the students whom she's so protective of. She's all three of those things and still making a huge difference in this rebellion. People don't need to be perfect to be heroes.
As a final note: I'm a whistleblower attorney. 95% of the people I work with are in it for (a) money, (b) revenge, or (c) avoiding consequences. Very few heroes are people who do it because they want to do the right thing. Moral purity doesn't really hold any ground in this business. People do the right thing because it's in their interest to do it, and that's great because that means the right thing gets done.
I hope Thjazi was a piece of shit in addition to doing all that good. It's the type of story a lot of people need right now.
You know I think it makes ample sense that Hal decided to stay in the city instead of leaving. Yes he is on the Halovars hit list and has been worried about his daughters, but I feel like his character arc has been building to this.
When he’s talked to Elodie about running somewhere safe with their daughters, she’s consistently noted there is nowhere safe from the people he’s worried about. He’s put so much of his life into building the Hallowed Round and not only is it a critical success as a theatre, it’s a new faerie safe hold and orcish afterlife and cornerstone. Beyond that, he’s dedicated so much time to show how dedicated and interconnected he is with his troupe. I do think there’s a way he could have shown that if he left, but it would have been a hard sell to make it not feel like he was leaving them to the wolves after they put themselves on the line for him. Or, at the least, leaving would have changed the trajectory of his character arc.
I’m glad he stayed, and he’s so popular now that the Halovars will have a tough time dealing with him and the new cultural renaissance. With his new resolve, he’ll be a force to be reckoned with!
As a personal wish, I hope with Thaisha headed out he also reconnects with the Lloy family if he needs them to continue to back him up on the sword borrowing legitimacy and the Orcs as the heart of the city.
I think the thing with Bolaire and Thjazi is that what’s setting Bolaire off now is not Thjazi’s general treatment of him, but the fact that Thjazi bringing Termina to Dol-Malkjar has blown up Bolaire’s life.
But that reaction doesn’t land for me because Taleisin wasn’t treating the Termina plot thread with urgency. Bolaire’s at least suspected that the broken shards were Termina since around episode 2? That was left alone until Lady Cormoray showed up at the Arcanad and Brennan had Termina grab her (that wasn’t Taleisin’s plan, his plan was “push her down the stairs”). Then he had the box he knew contained Termina hidden in a backroom of Hal’s theatre (and Brennan reconned which theatre it was) and did nothing further about it. Then they learned that the box had been opened and was now empty and Taleisin was focusing on other things. Bolaire knew this danger was here and was not prioritizing addressing it. Termina and Lady Cormoray showing up at the Sundered Houses meeting was all Brennan.
Bolaire’s attitude towards Termina has been inconsistant. When he saw her intact and grabbing Lady Cormoray, his reaction was “crap! crap! crap! this is bad!”. He tried to play a reunited-siblings vibe when he met her, but he never looked for her and he tried to hide her away she he did encounter her, so that doesn’t feel genuine (therefore neither does “he’s jealous of Teor and Cyd’s happy sibling reunion”).
He’s terrified of her, but he didn’t place any priority on following up on the realization that she was out of the box. (Yes, I know a lot was going on. He still went to the Sundered Houses meeting with Tyranny and Wick – something he had no connection to – rather than focusing on Termina. That he met Termina anyway was due to GMing.)
So “this is all Thjazi’s fault for doing something incredibly reckless” isn’t hitting because Taleisin-as-Bolaire wasn’t treating this plot thread as the disaster-in-the-making he now says it obviously was.
I've been thinking about this since I received a question about the cosmological vs political aspects of Araman and this is perhaps stating the obvious, especially after the events of Convergence hammered it home, but: there is a massive, branching, wide-spread implications plot for Campaign 4, but it is all one single coherent plot. Like, you cannot separate out the topics of the Seekers vs. Soldiers vs. Schemers into three distinct strands. The politics driven primarily by the Sundered Houses are empowered by the cosmology of this world. House Tachonis and House Halovar are both dealing in souls in some aspect. We know that to weaken House Tachonis's magical power (their political/material power otherwise waning, something that Petra and Ryah are aware of and asked their uncle to help with and at least a major part of Primus Tachonis's motivation for increasing magical power so that he can seize political power) the afterlife question must be dealt with. We know that dealing with the afterlives insufficiently carefully is what almost destroyed Faerie, which is what weakened House Royce magically and therefore also politically, which is what made them the obvious target of House Tachonis and which is what has thrown off multiple other political balances. We still don't have every aspect of the plot - The Candescent Creed's ultimate aims are hinted at but still vague - but it is unavoidable that the question of the afterlife and where souls go and how the Priestly Houses in particular maintain magical and therefore political power in the absence of Obridimia and Tansul is driving a great deal of the mundane politics, even down to the street level. Everything has both cosmological/arcane and political ramifications, from Barrowdells to afterlives and, as the letter from the Tachonis twins stated, focusing on one and not the other is unwise.
What this also means, however, is that regardless how anyone in-story or out feels about Thjazi, there is no story in which he, as someone in the Cloak, dedicated to opposing House Tachonis and addressing the afterlives (and being heavily involved in the plan that was ultimately incredibly effective to the point of paradigm-shifting and groundbreaking), is in the wrong on a grand scale. The cast of characters can feel how they want about him; but unless they join the side of the Sundered Houses, they will be carrying out the same plans he did. There is not an answer to this that is not "continue the work that Thjazi was killed over."
I regret a little leaving the "there is a version of cr4 where an eviler thjazi works" bit in the tags of my discourse post. Because I am sympathetic to the logic of people who think Thjazi having been objectively horrible to Bolaire makes him a more nuanced and realistic character. Lots of real life great revolutionary leaders where pretty terrible to people around them (and often quite misogynistic). The problem isn't with that idea, it's with that idea in this campaign. And I'd like to try to articulate why.
It's been said before and I'm sure it'll be said again, Brennan isn't a subtle storyteller. I don't necessarily know if I think he's incapable of it, but I do think he's not interested in it. There's a reason he keeps looking at the camera and saying "you can't prove this is an allegory!," he tells stories with a moral POV, often centering on class, and he likes it when the audience picks up on that. Which isn't to say he isn't capable of infusing moral nuance into his stories. He definitely is! But it is to say that 31 episodes in, we know what kinds of moral nuance he wants CR4 to be exploring through its NPCs. And I believe we've got four categories of it:
Why don't people act against oppressive systems? We've got a couple different forms of this. There's the people that are comfortable in the status quo and unwilling to recognize the problems with it or summon the will to dive into discomfort. Our "nice" nobility falls into this category, but so do people like Azune's Captain Fazir. There's the people that are too afraid to act in a significant way like Bolaire's fellow curator Makmaz. And then there's people like the various unnamed Magpies, who simply have more immediate concerns, such as feeding themselves and their families.
When do the ends justify the means? What terrible things are we willing to do/accept in order to do a greater good? This is Thjazi! This a major part of Thjazi's role in the narrative and what he symbolizes! This is also Mara, and the fairies in the Hollow. I also think the druids and their historic neutrality fall more into this category than the first one. If the Bolaire-Thjazi conflict is executed well, this is where it will live. And I still have a lot of hope that it will be executed well. I know there've been some concerns about Taliesin's play and bts statements, and I share some of those. But I do think this train is still very much on the tracks and Taliesin, with some assistance from Brennan and Laura, probably, can still very easily bring it safely to the station. For my money, the most likely scenario is "how could Thjazi justify to himself collaborating with a mask that had declared itself judge, jury, and executioner of petty criminals and was gleefully torturing them to build a comfortable life for himself." I think that's already been set up a little with Thimble's "have you considered he might have been afraid of you." But if we want a darker read on Thjazi, it could also be that he knew Bolaire would have to be sacrificed to restore the halfling afterlife and was doing everything he could to create emotional distance for himself about it.
Related to 2, but I want to class it separately because it's contained less in what the NPCs do and more in the options they present to the PCs: When do you align yourself with a lesser evil to defeat a greater one? This is mostly the Einfassens, but it could also be Termina.
How does one reconcile the good an institution can do with the corruption involved in running it? Candescent Creed is a big one here. So are the lingering worshipers of the Shapers. The Penteveral also plays around this idea.
Those are the moral ambiguities Brennan is exploring in this campaign as a DM. The good guys and bad guys are very clear. The abusers in the story look like Primus, Yanessa, Azgra, and Sylandri. There's no ambiguity there. Thjazi is a good man with questionable methods. Nothing about the story Brennan is telling is interested in asking "but what if he were also a bad guy too?" And if it did try to ask that question after more than 31 episodes, it would feel weird and out of place. Brennan would have to suddenly develop a much gentler touch to handle it gracefully, and it would change the entire tenor of the story.
That doesn't mean there's no room for other kinds of moral ambiguity. Julien, Occtis, Bolaire himself is the biggest one. But it's all coming from the PCs. I just reblogged a post that mentioned how we probably won't get to see Ethrand Tachonis grow beyond his abuse the way Occtis probably will by virtue of Occtis being a PC, and yeah, that sums it up. We get to spend a different kind of time with PCs that allows for deeper dives into moral nuance than NPCs do. They are also piloted by different people. Brennan has made clear what moral ambiguities he's interested in exploring with this story, but he's not the only one telling it, and he's happy to facilitate what others want to explore within their own PCs psyche and relationship to the world.
Going back to Brennan's style with this campaign, I've talked before about the fact that symbolism is pretty hard to do in Actual Play because you need player buy-in for it to really work. Which is why all the symbolism Brennan is doing has been with flashing neon signs (think bird hell). And flashing neon signs don't have a ton of nuance. This is what I'm talking about when I talk about Thjazi as a symbol. Brennan set up everything Thjazi was symbolically in the opening scene in as heavy-handed a way as he possibly could. A criminal, accused of theft and murder alongside his more bullshit charges, apologizing for keeping his distance from a friend, being executed under the guardian wall, calling out about the Falcon's Cry. And it has allowed the players to run with him as a symbol. Most recently and beautifully in Liam's ending to Kothar'ai.
There's also a reason not related to Brennan's storytelling style. This is a less important reason because we don't actually know what conversations happened behind the scenes and even if the Bolaire-Thjazi conflict execution goes terribly for the narrative, that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't set-up correctly for the other players at the table. But I do think it's a reason worth mentioning. Thjazi isn't just a character from Bolaire's backstory. Hal, Thimble, Azune, Thaisha, Teor, Kattigan, and Occtis all feature a largely positive relationship with Thjazi as a fundamental part of their character's backstory and motivations. For Bolaire to be right about Thjazi would be for Taliesin to turn Bolaire's backstory into a kind of sink hole, forcing Liam, Laura, Luis, Aabria, (not Travis anymore sadly), Robbie, and Alex to adjust their relationship with the backstories they wrote for their characters in order to accommodate Taliesin's character backstory. Again, a thing that could be ok with session 0 discussion, so possibly not a problem. But worth mentioning as a part of why I think eviler Thjazi doesn't work in this story
Vaelus is in such an interesting position in the new Seekers party with Hannan dead and Thaisha off on her own quest. the two druids were the two characters she had made the strongest bonds with. she had made a burgeoning connection with Occtis during their trek to and from Tannesar, but after the events of last episode and Occtis's reaction, it's arguable that Occtis likely feels closer with Julien at this point than Vaelus as despite Julien's supposed hostility, he did repeatedly prove through action that he had Occtis's back. Vaelus, on the other hand, Occtis considered a friend, even going so far as to defend her as such to Hannan that first night in the Grove, but you can feel that rift form as he asks whether she gave any thought to him before destroying the Stone of Nightsong, and unlike with his tension with Thaisha, I doubt Vaelus and Occtis have the emotional intelligence to repair that rift any time soon. of the initial Seekers party, that leaves Julien and their relationship can be best described as "two hard walls of emotion." they seem to understand each other, but neither of them are particularly warm.
of the people they picked up we have Bolaire, who Vaelus has a relatively hostile relationship with, and Thimble, who she's had one semi-positive interaction with after Thimble stole from her and set her on this path. Kattigan could be an interesting relationship to develop, as he was awkwardly a part of this life-altering moment for her that resonated with him more than she could have known, but they also barely know each other. all this to say, much like Wicander at the beginning of the Soldier's arc, Vaelus has gone through a profound perspective shift, but unlike Wick, she lacks any strong ties to guide her or confide in as she moves forward. she is once again the outsider looking in, only now her priorities have changed, and I'm excited to see where Ashley takes this.
so, new Seekers table. Julien and Occtis are increasingly openly hostile to one another. Occtis and Vaelus have a rift at the moment because she didn't think of him when she destroyed the Stone of Nightsong. Vaelus does not trust Bolaire at all. Bolaire seems upset with Thimble over the Thjazi of it all. Thimble and Julien have a frequently tumultuous relationship. Julien also seems to not like or trust Bolaire at all. Bolaire has antagonized Kattigan with "I lost everything" while still having siblings out there. Kattigan has barely spoken to anyone here who isn't Thimble. this isn't even getting to Thjazi being in Julien's shadow as a constant presence.
idk man there's just something about the lights of the Candescent Creed visible at the top of Dol-Makjar where Azgra once ruled. there's something about despite its diverse population, Dol-Makjar primarily being the city of the orcish revolution only for a priestly house of the human shaper to swoop in not a century later and set themselves up as a new power divinely appointed. it's why Thaisha unabashedly standing against the Halovar envoy hits so hard, a reminder that for all their machinations, this isn't their city, both literally and figuratively. their charges mean nothing. Halandil Fang cannot have stolen the blades that belong to Thaisha's family because he is her family. their daughter is holding what is rightfully hers. the Halovars may have money and magic and influence, but they will never be what the Lloys are to Dol-Makjar. "welcome to our city." you are guests, here, and the second that hospitality is betrayed, you are intruders.
i have to say killing hannan was such a perfect move. it’s emotionally devastating and has exactly the sudden terrifying finality that a power word kill from the most powerful necromancer in the world should have. none of the pcs had exposed themselves nearly enough for that to be warranted on them (and it would be a particularly harsh way to kill a pc), but they had all rolled badly and they had made the choice to keep going back in for each other. the promise of team birdwatching was that it would get bad when primus came home and brennan had to deliver on it. i’m so mad that this was such a good dm move. curse you brennan.
I find Bolaire's lines about 'belonging' to Thimble or Hal so jarring and strange. I don't think he actually thought that, he was just being passive aggressive. Like, why are you mad a dead guy was uncomfortable with a serial killer god killing mask around his brother and his partner? Some of the table didn't know you were even a mask until this episode, and while Misha had a great time, you certainly didn't treat your other hosts well? It hasn't been said how it was found out, but he killed a bunch of Falconer's in his sleep and continued killing afterwards for more bodies. Being scared and wary of what someone like that could or would do is reasonable?
As for looping everyone in, no. People were contacts and were doing favours for him but werent truly going to get involed. If all had gone well, everyone would have continued with their lives and jobs, and the risk would have remained on Thjazi trying to make a way to the Tenebral Reachers.
It's almost a strange mix where Bolaire wants to be more important than he was, outwardly resents he wasn't, and covers it up by blaming everyone else.
I don't want to harp on this a ton (ie, this will be my last post unless I get asks) but I do find any comparisons between Bolaire and Julien as the resident Thjazi-haters disingenuous because the thing is, Julien brings this up all the time, but as his core motivation is "destroy House Tachonis" and he is desperate for allies and knows it, it doesn't really matter as he is going to work with this group to the best of his ability. He might hate Thjazi, but he's going to scream "FUCK" and leave the theorizing to the nerds. Bolaire is set up to be someone who can gain access to lore and information and he really did not do that and he keeps trying to get others to join him and sulking when they don't despite there being objective evidence that Thjazi, while a huge dick to Bolaire specifically, was not ill-intentioned elsewhere (and despite a lot of these people grieving and making it pretty clear that no matter how Bolaire felt about Thjazi, Thjazi's work was in fact for the benefit of the world at large). Like, Julien understands that he is being a hater but that there's something larger going on. And more generally, most of Julien's actions have resulted in consequences that landed squarely on him, with the exception of leaving Teor (which is marginal anyway - like, again, that was a lot of bad rolls) whereas Bolaire's have deprived the group of useful information and almost certainly closed off certain avenues.
Having more knowledge from the coffin and Archanade - actually finding out what Lady Cormoray wanted - would have both greatly assisted with risk assessment and probably set up some Sundered Houses plotting and Search For Artifacts threads that now need to come through other means. Everything going on with Termina is like, well, you could have looked at the coffin and not pissed off Lady Cormoray and you did both those things. I think having Bolaire in a large group that isn't so individually driven as the Schemers are will be really good, so again, if you're tired of my criticism too bad it's my blog but also it will probably be lessening. But any comparison with Julien really is a comparing Watsonian apples and Doylist oranges situation.
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