#antific

[pancakerabbit10011]

"this ship is Problematic" great! list 3 of the problems it causes

[interspadias]

Tbh in 99% of cases I hate participating in "profic/proship vs antific/antiship" debates.

Not because I don't have strong opinions about the normalization of abuse and bigotry in media, or governments having legally backed means to censor anything they can portray as intrinsically lacking merit, or about how some forms of media can and do have negative impacts on people who consume it if not approached with tact and mindfulness, or about how the inherent need to hypercategorize every piece of artwork as either "morally correct respectful depiction of difficult topics" or "disgusting degen gooner fetish that reflects on the inherent evil present in its creator" with little nuance contributes directly into discouraging original thoughts and interpretations of media, contributing to purity culture

But because the inherent balance of "pro and anti" are a direct side effect of that lack of nuance and both tend to see any dissent from their label, regardless of reasoning, as ethically and morally impure.

And that's some faschie shit.

[smol-paw]

The Fiction Problem

I'm not entirely sure which blog of mine i should be posting this to. As this has become more then what i originally intended.

As an adult in fandom spaces. Something I've noticed is that there is a SERIOUS issue with kids not really knowing what REAL signs of grooming or abuse looks like.

They're quick to jump to stances of "Profic/ship" or "Antific/ship" because they're trying to solve some kind of "issue" with fiction or shipping. But the issue they keep going to doesn't actually have anything to do with the Fiction itself.

The real issue does lie with the communities surrounding Fiction.

Antifiction spaces are Minors trying to sanitize and cleanse Adult spaces, thus bringing adults into minors spaces. Which makes it harder for everyone to spot potential predators.

Profiction spaces are Minors trying to go into Adult spaces, which results in the same issue.

But the issue isn't the fiction itself. Its that Minors aren't being given their own space to talk about the topics on their own in a safe way.

We (as a western society, especially the USA) have basically No comprehensive sex ed. If there are sex ed classes they rarely extend to how Consent actually works and How to Interact with Porn safely. We also aren't teaching Minors how to spot REAL predators. Because real predators don't act like the ones in fiction. Fiction may give you a snapshot into the situation, but reality is more complex, and much more mundane. Sure fiction can give you small snapshots, but its not like the real thing. Meaning that fighting over fiction isn't actually gonna help anyone. It just hurts people who are using it to cope, people who use it as exposure therapy, or even just people who use it for harmless fun. Furthermore, This funnels quickly into Fascism as they WILL use censorship of things you (general) deem "icky" in order to hide REAL issues. For example, the removal of educational books and subsequent breakdown of the education system because of things they deemed as "sensitive material" (Ie. Queer or Bipoc history). Queer history and education was deemed as "sexual", giving them the "excuse" to remove hundreds of books from children libraries, and now they're pushing to deem all of Queer existence as "sexual". By fighting about what fiction "is" and "isn't" allowed to exist just hands malicious people what they want on a silver platter, whether it be full blown fascists or an internet predator.

If you want to learn more about consent- check out this site I also suggest looking at consent models such as RACK (risk aware consentual kink) and FRIES (Freely given Reversible Informed Enthusiastic Specific) and understanding more about how they work. Next i have resources here about how to spot grooming XX I also suggest listening to survivors and their experiences. Real life grooming is rarely about "Love" or romance as much as it is about giving the abuse a sense of Control over their target. Sometimes its the abuser trying to convince their target that they're in love, but other times its a "just" a teacher that treats you extra special. Sometimes its an Aunt that treats you better then your mom does and just wants to get really close to you. Now not everyone is out to get you. But your ability to spot those who might be will be MUCH higher if you learn how to set boundaries, understand consent, know the real signs of abuse.

I plan to write a more intensive post about Consent and how ive been seeing the understanding of Consent degrade VERY quickly in online spaces due to this intentional mesh of Adult and Minor spaces. I have seen real posts of people saying that Breaking consent "isnt harmful" and "isnt a big issue". As well as posts talking about activities that didn't fit any consent models and were likely non-consentual (Ie Sexual Assault). These posts were either BY minors or had minors agreeing and cheering them on not realizing the gravity of the situation. I've also found posts that ive genuinely had to report to the FBI, and no it wasnt in regards to someones fictional art or fanfic ship.

[miochimochi]

[sweetgardener]

"Are you Pro-Ship or Anti-ship?"

I think both communities have gone way too far, though my main gripe is with the anti-shipping community and how it seems to be almost normalized to bully others on the internet, to tell people to take their own lives for what they ship. Can shipping be used in a way to harm others? Yes and no, it's both, varies on a person to person basis. "But incest/loli/shota is disgusting!" I agree, but I am unsure telling people to kill themselves will make it any better. (Except for the Ruroni Kenshin author, that man had several TB of CP on his fucking computer, He should have been blacklisted and sent to fucking jail) Can fiction affect reality and vice versa? Yes and no, It's an inherently complicated situation and a person to person sort of thing. Example: The situation with Jaws as well as certian folks seeing the book Lolita as a romance (It is not, it is a horrific story from the perpestive of the predator and unfortunately, there have been some who have fallen for that perspective.) Are there predators in the proshipping community? Yes. Are there predators in the anti-shipping community? also yes.

So am I proship or Antiship? I don't care what people ship unless they are being innapropriate with REAL minors and children. Personally I think children should stay away from fandom because it is clearly not safe for them. That is not the kids fault by the way, it's the fault of the creepers and actual predators roaming these spaces, some who specifically hide behind the proship and antiship label to get to these kids. What a person ships does not wholly reflect their moral standing. Kids should not be looking for nsfw or dark shipping content. Adults should not be sharing nsfw content or dark shipping content with kids. Fandom has changed and both sides of proship and antiship need to fucking change how they interact with eachother.

[shipper-of-darkness]

I've been scrolling thru proship and anti posts and comments and have come to a conclusion. Both sides have a loud minority of people doing bad things that make a severely bad name for their side.

Like, I've seen a bunch posts and comments like 'antis are so unhinged, they'll dox and send death threats and CP to proshippers' or 'proshippers are so gross, they're groomers and pedos who send gross stuff and death threats to antis'.

Like, most people aren't doing either of those. And the vast majority of these posts and comments basically revolve around one bad person, like the post is a screenshot of this one account's posts or this comment is someone talking about a specific interaction they had with one account, it's never really about something that's common in the whole community.

But I've seen so many posts that seem to assume it is a thing in the entire community and that's an issue. Antis and proshippers really got to stop assuming the worst in the others, it's just making fandom a toxic place to be, and I think it's making reasonable conversations hard to have.

Tbh a lot of these posts and comments are probably from this loud minority, it's just making both communities look insane and unreasonable. I just think we should all keep this loud minority in mind when interacting with eachother, so we're not at eachothers throats for things this minority said.

[lewiscarrolatemybrain]

It's like this.

You have a dog phobia. You have good and valid reasons to have a dog phobia -- there was a traumatic, dog-related event in your childhood that has left you with a crippling fear. Dogs are actually a trigger for you, in the medical sense of the word, not just the popular meaning that they make you uncomfortable.

Some of your neighbors have dogs. Many of the bars and stores in your city are dog-friendly. There is a dog park on the route you take to and from work.

Obviously, you can't tell everyone in the world to stop having dogs. You also can't tell everyone in the world to warn you about their dogs. People are allowed to have dogs. People are allowed to exist, with their dogs, in public and in private, without tiptoeing around your specific phobia. Your friend who loves dogs adopting a puppy is not a violation against you, and you don't have the right to be offended or upset by it, because it doesn't have anything to do with you.

This does not mean dogs should be allowed to run free. Dogs are expected to be trained and controllable. Dogs that are violent or dangerous are taken away from their owners. There are rules in place, but those rules do not exist for you.

You could, possibly, become a shut-in. You could avoid every single place in your city that you know is dog-friendly and drive a different route so you don't need to see the dog park. In fact, I would argue you should do that! It requires you taking responsibility for your phobia by actively making changes to your life and routine that will benefit you, rather than sitting around complaining that people who have dogs are evil and should cater to your trigger, but it will have significantly greater positive effect than the alternative.

But you still have neighbors who have dogs. You will still encounter dogs being walked in public. People online will share dog videos.

Which means that if you really, actually want to live a life where you aren't constantly being faced with your own worst trigger, then you need to work to overcome that trigger. You need to seek therapy, in whatever way that works for you. You need to actively strive to get over this fear. Maybe you'll never adopt a dog for yourself. Maybe you'll never be the kind of person who happily fawns over your friend's dogs. But you will, with time, be able to at least exist comfortably in the world, regardless of other peoples' pets or their life choices.

It is your responsibility to manage your triggers, not anyone else's.

(The obvious flip-side of this is, of course, that if you know for a fact that your friend has a dog-phobia, and you are going to adopt a puppy, tell them you've done that, and don't get offended when they never want to come over your house. If you know your friend has a dog-phobia, do not bring them around dogs. Do not send them dog videos. That's obviously not what this post is about, but I know people will whine about it, so there it is.)

[dfnkt]

i dont like trigger lists either but fakeclaiming is not a good look. idk what you do or dont have mentally but that doesnt give you the authority to decide someone is faking DID or theyre "endo" over a discord server, you have never met them. you dont know them at all. online spaces have a higher concentration of minorities, especially if they make themselves explicitly open to them. but hey, you can always join that one stridercest-centered server that bans all kinnies, fictives, or ANYONE with DID under the same bracket.

i thought hey, you just followed me and maybe itd be cool to invite you to the server i mod for, but if youre going to be secretly hating a huge chunk of the userbase for an assumption you hold, i dont think i want you following me at all. complain abt rp users all you like but that does not reasonably extend to claiming that everyone is lying about their illness.

Yeah I briefly considered messaging you for the link but then realized I wanted nothing to do with it when I saw all the qualifiers. I want to find an adult space where no one is expected to tiptoe around obvious bullshit.

As for your lecture about fake claiming, I promise you I don't give a single shit. "Endos" are not consistent with the clinical presentation of DID. And if I'm a bad guy for saying it then oh well, lmao. Neither is the way any of these self-obsessed roleplayers who claim they aren't role-playing and it's actually "alters" or "headmates". If you want to pretend to have a disorder you should probably know what it looks like to have that disorder rather than role-playing a version that got popularized on tumblr and tiktok. If you don't want me following you, feel free to block me. I don't give a shit about that either. I'm not apologizing for saying that words mean things and you can't claim to have a disorder and then clearly have no idea how to fake it. It's embarrassing that it has become so accepted when this shit is so obviously fake. People can say and claim whatever they want on the internet but that doesn't mean no one is allowed to question or doubt those claims. How did we get from "appropriating labels and experiences that you do not have is bad" to "if you don't agree that this 19 year old has 100+ anime introjects then you're evil actually". That's what I wanna know.

Anyway, I would've behaved just fine in your server because I keep those sorts of thoughts to myself outside of spaces like this, but you're right. I probably would find a bunch of people claiming that they are LITERALLY DIRK STRIDER to be pretty fucking annoying.

If anyone knows how to find more info on the stridercest server let me know though. It sounds dope.