#anyarambles

[lesbodysseus]

The parallels between Abraham and Isaac and Agamemnon and Iphigenia.... no I'm not crazy please believe me don't call the nurse I beg

[lesbodysseus]

I feel like it's definitely reasonable to say Orestes and Electra have a mother-son dynamic but you guys need to listen to me very closely when I say I think they have a father-daughter dynamic too

[lesbodysseus]

Very big fan of whatever this trope in greek and roman sources is called like idk what is it about these kind of lines specifically but I love them

Ovid's Heroides: Hermione to Orestes

Ovid's Heroides: Briseis to Achilles

Iliad: book 6 (this is Andromache speaking to Hector btw but I think that's pretty obvious)

Iliad: book 18 (I'm talking about Achilles and Patroclus being compared to a lion and his cubs)

Lucian's Erotes (this bit is about Pylades and Orestes but that is also obvious I think)

[lesbodysseus]

Thinking about Odysseus and Helen parallels again.... I miss them mannnn

[lesbodysseus]

Hi Tumblr I remembered I have this acc 👀

[lesbodysseus]

Do we think Clytemnestra liked Aegisthus because he reminded her of Tantalus

[lesbodysseus]

hi (◍•ᴗ•◍)ﾉ♡ ur a pylades fan!! give me all your analysis/headcanons surrounding his character pls,, i find him woefully undeveloped when his premise is so very interesting, and as someone who obsesses over electra i'd love to explore their dynamic but i don't really have a firm grasp on pylades' character :'(

HI HI HIIII!!!! sorry for answering this so late I was too nervous to share my Pylades thoughts but this is such a good ask thank you for thisss I'll try to help to the best of my capabilities!!!! 🥹 I'm splitting analysis and hcs into two categories so you can know which things are based on my understanding of his character based off the sources I have read on him and which things are my headcanons that I completely made up!!!! 🙂‍↕️

— ANALYSIS:

I'd say Pylades is a harder character to analyze tbh because there are just so little sources on him as a person and what I mean by this is even though he is mentioned in a lot of sources literally 99.99% of the time you'll find Orestes somewhere near there's just too little about him by himself and that's exactly why I find him so interesting for me he exists solely in his role as the companion of Orestes that it makes it more interesting to think about him outside of that role because what could a Pylades who exists outside of Orestes even be like? What kind of character is Pylades like by himself? What is his relationship with other people that aren't Orestes like? Idk I just find Pylades very interesting and I'll try my best to analyze him based off all the different sources we have on him hopefully this is useful for helping you understand him better!!!

Based off what we do have on Pylades I would say he is a character defined by his immense loyalty and devotion, he is very self sacrificial as well, he's very tricky to figure out outside of Euripides since Pylades is always strangely quiet while Euripides grants him a much more important role in his plays Sophocles grants him a total of 0 lines and Aeschylus a total of 1 I would say his existence does serve a purpose in both Sophocles and Aeschylus' works even if he's more silent and in the background but Euripides is who I'm going to be mainly using as a source since he allows us to see a lot more of Pylades' character(however keep in mind I still haven't read a few plays by Euripides that involve Pylades so I may miss a few things), Pylades unlike his father and grandfather is also someone who does not neglect his duties, despite his typically gentle nature towards those he cares about(by this I mean like two people maximum) he can also be stern(? Not sure if this is the correct word to use here) when it's necessary (all of the points mentioned here besides the quiet thing I'll elaborate on in a bit)

I feel like I need to discuss Pylades and Orestes' relationship first since even though you brought up Electra I feel like this is the most important thing regarding Pylades that it's impossible to understand him if you don't try to understand his relationship with Orestes first, honestly I think their relationship can be interpreted in a lot of different ways but this is MY post on MY blog so we're going by MY interpretation. Pylades and Orestes have been for centuries considered a symbol of loyalty in friendship, the taurians even worshipped them as Gods because of how devoted they were to one another, so it's probably not ridiculous to say they're probably close but maybe that's just me 🤔🤔 (this bit is a joke), but on a serious note both Pylades and Orestes care about each other to the point they would allow themselves to die for one another, on Pylades' end this is showcased most in Euripides' Orestes and on Orestes' end it's showcased in Euripides' Iphigenia in Tauris, and it makes complete sense considering Orestes was brought up by Strophius for 7 years and they grew up alongside one another, when Orestes hesitates regarding killing Clytemnestra he turns to Pylades for advice instead of just deciding to spare her himself and when Pylades reminds him of Apollo's orders he immediately listens to him and stops hesitating (a mother's love (who am I kidding Clytemnestra would NEVER give Orestes that) can't compare to a beautiful ginger man I guess) in Aeschylus' libation bearers, Pylades even mentions in Euripides' Orestes(? I believe? Could be wrong regarding the source here) that he was the one who directed Orestes' sword that he used to kill Clytemnestra, so Pylades despite his care for Orestes isn't afraid to be more stern with him and encourage him to remember his duties since he knows it's better for Orestes for him to listen to Apollo's orders for him, and while Orestes does hesitate regarding committing matricide he never hesitates when it's Pylades advising him to do so. One source(I can't remember which rn I just remember I found it while going through Pylades' topostext back in feb) even says Orestes is better known by his friendship with Pylades than as the son of Agamemnon. Pylades is also compared to a snake or a lion but it's important to note that Orestes is often compared to these things as well and that's most likely why in the first place.

Honestly I feel like you could definitely interpret them as either platonic or familial but I will side eye someone if they do since there's more evidence hinting towards them having a romantic relationship instead which I'm gonna elaborate on it's own section because this is getting too long unforch.......

just to be clear here first what I mean by they could be interpreted as familial isn't really just because of the fact they're cousins but more in a metaphorical sense, Pylades and Orestes are often compared to brothers or even father and son, I don't take the fact they're cousins into consideration for this because their blood relation isn't really that touched upon often in sources in Euripides' plays I'd say there is more evidence they probably aren't related at all but that's vague because of the fact Pylades' mother isn't mentioned in Euripides, the familial thing is moreso just about the brothers or fatherson comparisons(I could go even more in depth about these especially the fatherson thing but I gotta limit what I say so I can make room to analyze Pylades' relationship with other characters...) that I tend to see 🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️ I'd say the platonic thing is obvious by itself as for how their relationship could be seen as romantic, Pylades and Orestes' relationship has been interpreted and implied as romantic both in ancient times and the modern day, the Romans also often portrayed them as having a homoerotic relationship, iirc queer couples in ancient times would also compare themselves to Orestes and Pylades to show their relationship without really explicitly saying it as well, there are multiple sources that either explicitly say or just imply that they're queer so I think having a romantic reading on them is perfectly reasonable.

Alright finally onto Pylades and Electra!! 🥹 personally I like Pylades and Electra as both a platonic and romantic pairing depending on my mood, what I mean by this is they could lowk pass as either a normal married couple or a lavender marriage depending on how you interpret them and I'm open to both interpretations 🤔🤔

Anyways Pylades and Electra are also characterized by great devotion to one another(the oresteia trio are all devoted to one another honestly) however I'd say both of them are far more devoted to Orestes than they are to each other BUT I DIGRESS I feel like they could have a really interesting dynamic to explore, unfortunately the only source that explores their relationship somewhat that I have read is Euripides' Orestes(I can't read Euripides' Electra yet since I want to read it with idvoomf in exchange for me playing idv.... give me til like Saturday next week and see if reading Euripides' Electra opens my pylectra third eye or something) so I don't really have much to go off of regarding sources so anything following is just my thoughts based on my understanding of their characters

I think they're both very similar regarding their care for Orestes(probably shouldn't be bringing him up in the pylectra section but SHHHHH I can't just think about pylectra without involving Orestes since he's too important to both), they both get compared to sort of parental figures for Orestes due to the love they hold for him(with Pylades being compared to a father towards Orestes while Electra is compared to a mother towards Orestes) Electra shares a lot of the same traits as Pylades idk I just think they're very similar and if we're looking at them through a romantic lense I think they could get along very well 🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️ even through a platonic lense they're still a very good pairing honestly I feel like their dynamic as a married couple would be one of mutual respect, loyalty and love I can also see them bonding over their care for Orestes too I think they would just have a very sweet relationship honestly even as a lavender marriage I can see them being besties they're both very queer coded in their own way but they still love each other regardless and that's what matters ❤️❤️ uhmmm I could probably write more for this section but my brain is lowk starting to blank my bad pylectra nation...... 🥹🥹 maybe when I read Euripides' Electra next week I could reblog with more thoughts if my pylectra third eye gets opened

Also u might already know this but just incaseee anyone who is reading this doesn't according to Pausanias Pylades and Electra actually have two sons together 🥹🥹 their names are Strophius and Medon and they both partook in the war with the children of Heracles and I believe Medon founded his own city in Phocis as well??? Could be wrong about this one correct me if I am... idk I just felt like mentioning that because I loveeee Strophius jr and Medon okay... honestly I think they would both be decent parents maybe not perfect ones I can especially see Electra potentially struggling but they're both trying their hardest to be the best parents they can be to their sons!!!

Alright last character relationship analysis w Pylades I just wanted to talk about Pylades and his dad Strophius we don't actually have much on them(by that I mean almost nothing) so this is gonna be a shorter section but EXCLUDINGGGGG Euripides I think based off the very little we do have it could be safe to assume Pylades and Strophius had a good relationship with one another 🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️ by this I mean Pylades naming his son after his dad LMFAO I feel like only a daddy's boy could ever pull a move like that... also I just find it hilarious that Electra would marry a man who would name his son after his dad ❤️

also I know about "Strophius exiling Pylades" but that's from Euripides' Orestes which is why I said excluding Euripides while I do use Euripides' Orestes for analysis reasons I tend to consider it it's own separate canon away from the myth versions I do support also consider that in Malalas(I know he's like even less of a reliable source than Euripides BUTTTT shhhh 🤫🤫 let me have ONE greekmyth character without daddy issues) Strophius doesn't seem to mind the murder of Clytemnestra and Aegisthus all too much in fact he advises Orestes to wage war on Aegisthus but Orestes asked Strophius to go back to Phocis but to leave Pylades with him and Strophius was like 👍 and did exactly that so he willingly let Pylades go help Orestes murder Aegisthus and Clytemnestra in that version and honestly I like it much better even though I do have my beef with Malalas' bitch ass

OKAY THIS IS THE LAST BIT IN GENERAL I just wanted to talk about Pylades and Apollo rq LISTEN I DIDN'T LIE THIS ISN'T ABOUT THEIR RELATIONSHIP but I remember seeing smth calling Pylades a human standin for Apollo in Aeschylus' libation bearers and like yeah I just agree w that heavy so I wanted to bring it up I do also sometimes like to think his one speaking line in the play was Apollo speaking through him since I just think that concept is interesting idk I like it

Also this is completely unrelated to the bit above but I just wanted to bring this up too I just didn't know where because my ass just doesn't shut up but uhhhh fun fact Pylades and Hermione are actually friends according to Ovid 🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️ it's actually just one line saying "Pylades loved Hermione" (not meant to be taken in a romantic context though pretty sure just platonic) in regards to Ovid yapping about how a good friend will always respect your wife and will never try to take her for himself or smth like that idk Ovid was just saying words and Pylades was one of the examples of a good friend

also because I can't think of anywhere else to put this what I meant in the first part about how "Pylades unlike his father and grandfather is also someone who does not neglect his duties" is that Pylades' great grandfather Phocus was actually slain by Peleus(Phocus and Peleus are also half brothers it's a long story) Pausanias mentions that because of this he thinks That Pylades had helped in the murder of Neo and not just out of friendship for Orestes since Neo is obviously Peleus' grandson so it would be vengeance for Phocus which I just loveeee I find it so interesting how even though Phocus' death was like uhhh three generations ago I think??? Pylades still is the one to avenge him, it's not Crisus and neither is it Strophius, idk Pylades is just. Dutiful. Ig. ❤️

— HEADCANONS:

OKAY FINALLY ONTO HCS..... I'm gonna keep this section nice and short even though I have a lot of Pylades hcs because I yapped my ass off in the analysis bit so uhh here we go 🥹

Pylades was always closer to his dad growing up but I like to imagine he was still pretty close with Anaxibia!!! Astydamia(Pylades' sister) was more of a mama's girl unlike him though, the random wet cat they picked up off the street(Orestes) also gravitated towards auntie Anaxibia more 🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️

Pylades likes woodcarving. Idk why I just think he'd like woodcarving ❤️ he'd make little toys for Astydamia as a gift if he was feeling like being a nice older brother that day and giving her gifts instead of pushing her down the stairs ❤️

I like to imagine Crisus was around his grandkids a lot when they were kids he'd bring gifts to Pylades and Astydamia all the timeeee after Orestes showed up he started accounting for him too seeing how important he was to his grandson, I honestly think he wasn't the best father to Strophius so he would try to make up for it by being the best grandpa to Pylades and Astydamia, and Pylades liked spending time with grandpa Crisus a lot anyways ❤️

Pylades is very seal coded to me. Like even though he's compared to a lion or a snake in Euripides' Orestes he's just so seal... the Phocis aeacides are all seals to me, listen Phocus means seal so he's seal coded and so all his descendants r seal coded too 🥹

I like to think Pylades and Hermione did not get along AT ALL at first they couldn't fucking stand each other one bit but they gradually ended up warming up to each other and becoming good friends!!!

Do u know that one line in the official Jax song. Sometimes I pretend my wife is Jax I might be gay. That line is Pylades pretending Electra is Orestes trust me bro

ON A MORE SERIOUS NOTE THOUGH Pyladess likes to get Electra flowers a lot after they get married her hair is decorated with a bunch of flowers because of this ❤️

Pylades either rarely talks or never talks at all, he's usually very careful with his words and thinks words hold a lot of meaning so he stays silent unless it's necessary for him to say something, I like to think that he tends to be so silent that people sometimes assume he just can't talk when they're meeting him for the first time 🥹🤞

Okay that's all bai.... I really enjoyed answering this thank u for sending this ask I yapped my ass off in this can u tell I like Pylades ❤️❤️

[lesbodysseus]

The way the Oresteia deals with gender and the defying of gender norms is so interesting to me I will post a more in depth analysis in a bit since I just woke up