#hoo gaea

[pjomakesyourkidsgay]

love pjo sm because. there's really not much characters you can truly hate. they're all nuanced, morally grey characters. percy jackson is the protagonist not because he wants to serve the gods but because keeping olympus upright would be the most effective way to make sure everyone is still in a normal world - or as normal as they can possibly be. but it's not olympus or the gods he serves at all, it's because he cares a lot about the people around him and wants the best life for him.

but luke? luke's the antagonist, but he can't be the villain. yes he joined kronos, and who knows what kronos would've actually done to the world if he'd succeeded? luke is rightfully done with the gods abandoning their children - they cant possibly go on having fun, having kids and then forgetting demigods exist ONLY to DEMAND their service whenever they want. he wants the gods to be better, or to get rid of them so that life for demigods like him would be improved. yeah he tried to do it the wrong way but still had good intentions

dude even side characters like octavian? remember that the feud between camp half-blood and camp jupiter lasted for DECADES. GENERATIONS. there's definitely people who'll have trouble wrapping their heads around the concept of suddenly reconciling. put yourself in his shoes - you've been taught all your life to hate the graecus, that nothing good could ever come of them, and the first encounter you have with a greek demigod and he becomes praetor in, what, a week? a few days? meanwhile you're out here trying so hard to please the gods as an augur, to get their attention and approval. and then more greeks come and they blow up your beloved city, nevermind that it was an accident or because the greek responsible had been possessed?

drew tanaka was painted as a bitch or a mean girl but can you even truly blame her? she lost so many of her siblings during the titan war. she lost silena, who she mustve looked up to before, only to find out that silena had betrayed camp, betrayed them? of course she'd be bitter.

they're all still part MORTAL. sure they have powers and abilities and this whole different world and stuff, but they're still HUMAN. they do things wrong, they make mistakes, and their punishments are just horribly unfair because of the gods really broken sense of justice and way more than credited sense of self-importance.

actually, actually. let me add. EVEN GAEA. of COURSE she's angry at the gods. she's angry because they threw HER CHILDREN down to the depths of tartarus, punished even the innocent. of course she wants to take down olympus because she is a MOTHER.

[raya-rhaenyra-ahsoka]

The biggest threat to Olympus was neither Percy nor Thalia, but it's Annabeth. Hear me out. *Spoilers for non-book readers*

I was rereading the books and watching the show. And it's only then that I've realized it.

The closest Kronos' army was to ever winning against the gods (minus Luke dipping into the Styx to host Kronos) was in TTC. It was winter solstice, a more dangerous time as ancient and evil magic is as its peak, making monsters were more powerful. They have the titan Atlas, Kronos' OG general from ancient times, walking and ordering people around. They had the goddess Artemis holding the sky on her shoulders, and they have Annabeth as a captive.

With Annabeth being a captive, they had two of the most powerful demigods at their disposal. Percy and Thalia eagerly volunteered and fought for a place to go on a dangerous quest, not for Artemis, but specifically to find Annabeth. Percy voluntarily held the sky so Artemis could help them defeat Atlas and save Annabeth, while Thalia inadvertently pushed Luke off a cliff simply for hurting Annabeth.

And if it weren't for Annabeth, Luke wouldn't have a change of heart. She thoroughly convinced him, placing herself as a target and reminding him of the promise he told her when they were still on the run. Luke ultimately fought Kronos with all his might from hurting her. In the end, Luke chose to save Olympus because of her.

In the show, Kronos instructs Allison and not Luke to kill Annabeth specifically, instead of either Percy or Thalia. Because he knew Luke could never do it.

Hera knows this as well, because when she planned to switch the camp leaders in HoO, she specifically exchanged Percy and Jason. Because she knew firsthand that they would lose their minds and cause tectonic plates to shift if either Annabeth or Reyna went missing.

Also in HoO, though not officially, Annabeth is regarded as the leader of the Seven. We had three big three kids (Percy, Jason, Hazel) amongst the Seven and yet they always looked up to her and highly regarded her opinions before they made their next move. She also single-handedly found the Athena Parthenos statue, which was the key figure that united both the Greek and Roman armies in the war against Gaea.

In conclusion, Annabeth is the glue that holds everything together. Without her, the titans might've already won against the gods when Luke first stole the bolt and the helm. Basically, Annabeth being hurt brings out the best in Luke and the worst in Percy and Thalia, with their fatal flaws playing a part in the eventual outcome. To Luke and Thalia, Annabeth was their little sister and they would to anything to protect her. And to Percy, well, he loves her enough to turn down immortality to be with her (IMO the best example of the friends-to-lovers trope). Their attachment to her is what made her the biggest threat to Olympus.

[clover-charlie]

hoo au where gaea takes leo under his wing to manipulate him. his life goes pretty much the same, he just has his 'mama gaea'. gaea also taking in octavian because his parents aren't home anyways, and he wants that love. gaea won't leave him.

everyone else that was important was already either too emotionally stable or already taken by a god.

[haec-est-fides]

How to start Discourse TM about Octavian:

Discuss.

This struck me at like 2am so I apologize if it comes off as rude? But hear me out.

This stupid chart is a gross oversimplification ofc, but at its most basic this captures the issue regarding Octavian’s characterization / how the fandom perceives and understands him: his ambiguous motivations.

Octavian fans, as far as I’ve seen, tend to write redemption AUs and characterize Octavian as a misunderstood victim -- which isn’t to say that they excuse his crimes or anything like that! There’s actually a really good understanding of “this kid did horrific things but there’s more to it than that and he deserved better” among them tbh.

The thing is, most Octavian fans (box II / top right if you’re following) are from Heroes of Olympus and may not have read Trials of Apollo. They know, from their reading, that Gaea influenced Octavian somehow, but not about the Triumvirate. They also probably read into Will Solace’s “anemic” comment / other “unhealthy” descriptors of Octavian and think his death was a complete failure on Riordan’s part like what the fuck. What I’m getting at is that if you’re sympathetic to Octavian, want to be able to explain why he does what he does, and hear that Gaea -- the big bad of the series -- is messing with his head? You’re going to put a lot of weight on that manipulation. It colors your entire understanding of his character.

Octavian haters, which I’ll admit make up the dominant chunk of the Riordanverse fandom, are box IV / bottom right. They also largely come from Heroes of Olympus and may or may not have read Trials of Apollo. More importantly, they don’t care. These are folks who read Heroes of Olympus and didn’t stop to think about Octavian or his motives. These are people who missed or didn’t bother to think about the mention of Gaea’s involvement. As a result, they obviously don’t see how he was pushed into what he did and so they blame it all on him. To them, there is no rational reason Octavian acted like he did. He’s just “crazy” and a jerk.

(I’m also gonna say it: The most insistent Octavian haters are Percy stans / Camp Half-Blood 4 Lyfe types who think everything that isn’t Percy Jackson and the Olympians is meh at best, people who read Trials of Apollo for Percabeth content and then get big mad because they were “cheated”, people who still get upset about the pillow pet in 2020. I bring this up because even if you don’t know that Octavian was influenced by Gaea or the Triumvirate, you could conceivably find a motive by understanding Camp Jupiter / the entire idea behind New Rome -- but the graeci don’t spend any time thinking about New Rome ever. Riordan himself is notoriously shallow about Camp Jupiter and the whole series is framed as anti-Roman tbh. That’s its own discussion.)

Box III / bottom left is a wild card because I’m pretty sure I’m like,,,the only person in that box. Basically, what I got from my reading of Octavian in Heroes of Olympus was “oh wow this kid walked straight out of Rome, c. 27 BC” and “omgs, he’s Augustus II”. Trials of Apollo only confirmed that interpretation more for me. The main cause of his strife with everyone around him is that he’s trying to act like a full blown ancient Roman in a modern, mini Rome. Almost everything held against him is literally nothing when you come at it from a Roman mindset. Anyway, I hear you saying, “That’s all well and good, but box III says he WASN’T influenced by Gaea! Isn’t it canon that he was?” Truthfully? I really don’t think Gaea had all that much to do with Octavian’s actions. Maybe a nudge here or there, but nothing that would remove his agency as a rational actor in what he did. Why? Because we only ever -- and I mean ever, Trials of Apollo included -- hear that Octavian was influenced by Gaea from extremely biased speakers who admit they don’t know what happened, namely Apollo himself. Apollo, whose ego is so big he would never admit to being played by a teenager. Hell, this should get its own post one day. Moving on.

Box I / top left is really the most rational place to be. It isn’t very popular because it’s just,,,complicated. It allows for sympathy and understanding, which the Octavian haters can’t or won’t consider. It allows for blame and agency, which many Octavian fans prefer to avoid. All in all? It’s likely that the Triumvirate (which is honestly just shorthand for Extreme Romanness) played a role in Octavian’s worldview and therefore his motives. It’s also likely, if you take the text at face value, that Gaea pushed Octavian over the edge to divide the camps. If all of that is true, he’s a complex person who got dealt a bad hand but still played dirty with it.

Now, before I shut up, I want to make clear that I’m not actually trying to start shit. All interpretations of Octavian are wonderful and valid! He’s a very badly-developed character on Riordan’s part and that means you can hc almost anything. (That’s why there are so many readings of him in the first place, and there’s nothing we can do about it.) Also, I know that a lot of Octavian fans project / see him as a comfort / coping character, and I did not mean to demean that or otherwise upset y’all with this post. <3 I just wanted to share an observation as to why Octavian, as b-plot villain as he is, is such a divisive character in the fandom.

[macaroniandcheese]

In BoO, Gaea is killed in a giant fireball created by a combination of Leo's fire and Octavian's giant war catapults. This is a metaphor for how mankind is killing the earth with war and global warming. in this essay I will-

[haec-est-fides]

While I’m talking about Octavian, I might as well clarify my reading of the whole Gaea thing.

In a previous post about fandom perceptions of Octavian’s character, which can be found here, I said this:

I really don’t think Gaea had all that much to do with Octavian’s actions. Maybe a nudge here or there, but nothing that would remove his agency as a rational actor in what he did. Why? Because we only ever -- and I mean ever, Trials of Apollo included -- hear that Octavian was influenced by Gaea from extremely biased speakers who admit they don’t know what happened, namely Apollo himself. Apollo, whose ego is so big he would never admit to being played by a teenager.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Apollo is really the only person who says that Gaea had anything to do with Octavian and the civil war.

I believe the first time we’re even introduced to that idea is when we visit Apollo and Artemis on Delos in Blood of Olympus. That’s where Apollo says this:

“I was misled by Gaea and that horrible Roman child!”

...

“Gaea must have been clouding my thoughts, whispering in my ear.”

(Ch. XXXIII)

Apollo only knows for certain that Gaea’s rise is an existential danger to the gods, that he’s lost Delphi to Python, and that Zeus blames him for all of that and Octavian’s war (which is basically allowing Gaea to rise unopposed). Throughout the conversation, Apollo is primarily concerned with his own safety. He’s scared of Zeus’ wrath and feels wrongly blamed.

[Interesting note, Octavian isn’t the only reason Zeus blames Apollo for the Gaea situation. Zeus has been angry since Apollo blessed Rachel, because she issued the Prophecy of Seven.]

Basically, Apollo isn’t a reliable narrator and he never says that Gaea influenced Octavian. He says that Gaea influenced him.

His phrasing of that second statement -- “Gaea must have been clouding my thoughts” -- also seems to me as if he isn’t sure. He’s trying to convince himself that it’s not his fault. He would never make a mistake, so it must have been someone else.

He has the same mentality, with slightly more conviction and the blame now shifted entirely onto Octavian, early in Hidden Oracle:

That’s when Zeus turned on me. He’d accused me of starting the whole thing, just because Gaea had duped one of my progeny, a boy named Octavian, into plunging the Roman and Greek demigod camps into a civil war that almost destroyed human civilization. I ask you: How was that my fault?

(Ch. 4)

At that point, he’s being punished by Zeus and a long way from recognizing his faults. He’s still of the mindset that he did nothing wrong, and so he pushes the blame elsewhere.

Even so, a few chapters later in Hidden Oracle, one of the first admissions of guilt he ever has is this:

I could only remember my conversations with Octavian, the way he’d turned my head with his flattery and promises. That stupid boy…it was his fault I was here.

A voice whispered in the back of my mind. This time I thought it might be my conscience: Who was the stupid boy? It wasn’t Octavian.

(Ch. 12)

I feel like this isn’t something Apollo’s conscience would admit if he knew for a fact that Octavian had been outright manipulated by Gaea.

Besides, the way I read the quote from chapter 4, Apollo saying that Gaea “duped” Octavian could also just be referring to the eidolons that made Leo fire on Camp Jupiter, which is Octavian’s primary casus belli.

In any case, I hope this sort of clarifies where I stand on the issue? Though, as always, if you read it differently that’s totally valid too.