#proshipping discourse

[coolingrosa]

I was blocking people thru filtered tags because I really don’t like following people who may post dreammare or Frans without me knowing bc…again…I have those tags blocked so they never will show me if the person does partake in that, and I stumbled upon multiple PROSHIPPING alts from bigger artists in the community. A lot of these people are open about being a proshipper, but will also lie on their blog and say they don’t make the content or indulge in it, and yet have whole blogs for it? Then admit in their pinned post they are attempting to hide it? It just confuses me because if you want to be transparent to your audience, why actively hide the blog from your audience and refuse to admit to it? This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this happen, as many ex-mutuals on tiktok have been called out for similar actions and it’s becoming so tiring and slimy to see.

I don’t like proshippers, that much is clear, but I’m very much against people going to people’s pages and sending large amounts of hate b/c as long as people tag their stuff and are transparent about what they partake in, I can’t get too angry. I appreciate it when people are open about it so you know better to avoid them and can easily block their page entirely. It’s a good system- and the label of PROSHIPPING helps keep the both sides clear of one another. What I DON’T appreciate is when people hide it from their audience and claim they either don’t post it anymore, don’t post it at all, and even go as far to claim they are a anti while running a account like that. I find that very cowardly and disgusting.

My page is not a place welcoming to proshippers, but for those who don’t hide it from everyone and make it open so people know what to avoid, that’s people who genuinely don’t want a audience built based on false information and tricks. I dare say I respect that.

And no, I will not give the names of these blogs as I know it’ll start so much drama that I do not wish to partake in. Though I do not respect them for hiding it, I know that I do not have the right to out it because the last time this discourse happened with those types of blogs, the person who made the blocklist got way out of control about doxxing while everyone else was growing rapid with hate and death threats. I simply just want to rant. Not send mass of hate to people online that I want nothing to do with because the content they consume and make disgusts me.

[starcanwrecked-confessions]

proshipping discourse is always so exhausting cuz proshippers act like theyre doing something brave and good and fighting against the evil pro-censorship police (teenagers on tumblr who dont want to see incest) while antis act like proshippers are committing actual crimes and should be entirely shunned from the internet and jailed forever. and like neither of you are right. this is shipping discourse on the internet. you arent fighting some noble civil war here, stop larping and block each other.

like if you find out a mutual has a secret proship sideblog and you dont fuck with that thats entirely valid but confront them or block them instead of broadcasting it to anonymous confession blog, especially one thats like discourse breeding ground supreme (no shade, just acknowledgement). why is it everyone elses problem now. why are we involved. i dont even know who started this

also sidenote, i think a proshipping discourse tag would be useful for people to block this whole discussion bcause its like barely even about starkid. might be too late cuz its probably fizzling out by now (fucking fingers crossed) but maybe for future mentions? i guess this is hypocritical because i am now also contributing but i am so so sick of this truly. god bless

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[shimmeringlesbian]

my opinion on proshipping is so complicated man.

one one hand, I'm anti-censorship. I think media should be allowed to depict bad things, and I think fandom media is no exception to that. and banning things is a slippery slope. it leads nowhere good.

on the other hand, I think people creating/consuming media with these "immoral" dynamics need to examine why they're doing it. I think there's a major difference between rape depicted as a major trauma in a character's story vs. rape depicted as a sexy fun experience. both should be allowed to be published online. one of them maybe shouldn't be. but who am I to stop them?

at what point do we draw the line? at what point do we consider scenes of rape/pedophilia/incest to be important? at what point do we consider that they may be intended to arouse people?

I'm not saying we should ban anything. I think ao3, for example, is a fantastic website. I wouldn't change a thing. I just want people to think very critically about the media they create and consume. I think there are some things I STRONGLY believe shouldn't be published. they still are, and that's not changing. it shouldn't change. we just have to use our better judgment and remember that media doesn't exist in a vacuum.

[literally-ahammer]

Ship discourse is so funny, because I'm literally playing Barbies and you're throwing your own doll at me.

[anncurseoftragedy]

What is pro-shipping, why is it wrong, and what counts as a pro-ship?

(Header: VicChampan on Pinterest?)

To better understand what pro-shipping is, let's learn what it used to mean. Proshipping used to mean you were pro that ship, think something like "I'm pro Geto × Gojo." Now, proshipping means problematic ships, for example, anything that's illegal, like Gojo × Yuji! Pro-shipping is just ships that are problematic in nature– "But if that's the case, then why isn't Geto × Gojo seen as a pro-ship, since Gojo killed Geto?" That's because even though a ship may have problematic elements, it may not be seen as a pro-ship within or outside that fandom. Most ships that are two adults or even two teenagers won't be considered by the fandom as a pro-ship, even if they're Victim × Murder or unhealthy. As long as they are of age or close in age, most won't actually care about their lore with each other. Those who do will either ignore it or justify it to others. Then what counts as a pro-ship? Well, I can only answer this for myself, but for me personally, I consider anything pedophilic, incest, romanticizes/downplays abuse, and shows sexual/gore of characters underage as pro-ships. While I may not view all toxic or unhealthy ships as pro-ships, depending on the lore surrounding the characters. Coughs, SatoSugu– coughs, I won't ship them if it unsettles me or makes me uncomfortable. However, I won't stop others from doing so, but I won't interact with those who do ship things that I view as pro-ships. I find that pro-ships can be sometimes subjective, as not everyone may agree that, for example, Victim × Murder ships are pro-ships or that all abusive relationships are pro-ships. It just comes down to personal view, lore of the characters, and what is/isn't acceptable in that fandom space. That's why SatoSugu isn't viewed as a pro-ship despite Gojo Killing Geto, they have a deeper lore and background with each other. This isn't even the only example of fandoms picking and choosing what they consider problematic in the fandom.

[babeblox]

do you consider yourself a proshipper? I know someone left a comment on one of your fics and I'm not sure if you like being called that oe not

I 100% am a proshipper. And i know that person was using it as insult but honestly i consider it a compliment. I have boundaries when it comes to fiction both in the things i don’t want to read/write but that is my own personal preference and it doesn’t reflect the morality of other people’s fanwork.

Lately i’ve grown so exhausted of this whole pro/anti shipping discourse if feels like the only way people are capable of being passionate about something, be it the source material or a fanfic/fanart is through outrage and moral criticism. We should all get back to being way more cringe and insane immediately…..

[dual-fantasy]

looking into the scike proship discourse on other platforms and. wtf are they talking about. they weren't in the danganronpa trenches and it SHOWS

[yrrtyrrtwhenihrrthrrt]

I've said this before like multiple times but pro/anti-shipping discourse is exhausting.

Like first of all FUCK proshippers, I'd never call myself a pro-shipper because their end-all be-all is ALWAYS, WITHOUT FAIL, CHILD RAPE FANTASY. WHY. Why are they so into kids??? That's ALWAYS the main thing you see them defending!!

But at the same time I don't feel comfortable calling myself an "anti" or a "proud anti" because generally yeah, I hate proshippers and they're gross, but you see Antis on here like "You're a pedophile if you have an Ao3 account even if you don't make pedophilic content bc SOME AO3 users do (???)" or "Absolutely all content should be child-friendly or banned from the Internet completely (fuck that???)" or "absolutely all fictional portrayals have to be 100% unproblematic, as much so as IRL relationships. Any amount of conflict to drive the plot is not acceptable" or "If you are into/write about any kink, even if it is portrayed as consensual and safe, you are actually a disgusting abuser. All sex should be vanilla missionary (just kidding sex shouldn't exist at all)." Like ??

Like a lot of Antis wouldn't even tolerate that I ship Goldenheart because they have a problematic/violent backstory. I've SEEN antis who think Goldenheart is unacceptable and they lump ships like that together with ships that are literal pedophilia. Like HELLO???

So basically, where do I draw the line? I don't care if a fictional relationship is problematic as long as

1- the characters portrayed are ADULTS (and no grooming was involved before one of them was an adult)

2- the characters portrayed CONSENT to any romanticized situation.

3-I do not mind portrayals of abuse (childhood or adult) IF they are portrayed as evil, disgusting, and wrong, and NOT sexualized or romanticized for audience gratification and are not tagged inappropriately

That's it. I don't mind consensual kink, I don't care about power dynamics or age gaps between ADULTS as long as there isn't manipulation involved, I don't mind a backstory with way more conflict than the average IRL healthy relationship would have, and I don't mind stories which explore dark topics such as abuse/SA in a realistic and respectful way that isn't portrayed as "hot" or "cute" 🤮 At the same time, I think that to pretend that getting off on fictional people ESPECIALLY fictional children being abused doesn't have real world consequences is fundamentally and intentionally dishonest.

Idea for a new word. Not pro-shipping, not anti-shipping, norm-shipping. I'm a norm-shipper. I.e. a NORMAL FUCKING PERSON who is okay with fantasy stretching further than reality but also recognizes that it's not okay to wanna FUCK KIDS.

Norm-shippers unite.