#spn queerbaiting

[deanwasalwaysbi]

This is all of us

[destielette]

Destiel shippers waiting for Spn to make Destiel canon at every end of the season be like ...

[amwritingmeta]

My dear, you are the most interesting writer of the fandom. I truly believe without knowing you in person that you are a fine human being. This I'm asking you, because I recall a piece of Meta you wrote almost a year ago about how it will be difficult to make Destiel Canon, because of the nature of show business. Now, about your last post of the color purple. Let me ask you honestly, you don't think at some point that all this things are a proof of queerbating if Destiel doesn't go Canon? Thanks

Hello, lovely Nonny! And oh wow *blushes violently* that’s one helluva compliment. And I must stress that I’m the most average human being to ever average! But thank you for saying such sweet things! Jeez Louise what a way to spend a Sunday! :D

And omg what a callback to the early days! I do remember that post, actually. It was in response to a queerbaiting discussion, but I cannot find the original to save my life so I’ll just run with it:

I do need to clarify that I believe what I said wasn’t that it is/will be/would be difficult to make Destiel canon because of the nature of show business, but rather that our fucked up world, and what it means for a show to launch itself with a queer lead, has informed how Dean Winchester and his presentation has been handled in the media and by the cast and writers/show runners. 

And, naturally, how Dean Winchester is presented must inform how Destiel is handled as well. Because Dean is our protagonist. 

I mean, this is my theory here and I cannot prove a single word of it, so take all of this with grains of salt - all I can give you is what makes sense to me when looking at the narrative and what I see as the intent of that narrative.

Whether Dean was always meant to be the protagonist, or meant to be the secondary character to Sam’s protagonist (roles which are established in the Pilot), is of little consequence here, what matters is that you can trace bi-Dean back to the Pilot. That side to his personality is present in the Pilot. Dean was always meant to be queer coded. Why not overtly so?

Well, the way I see: the show wanted a predominantly male audience for a reason. Because the show is about deconstructing the masculine ideal and teaching boys and men that denying who you are based on the terribly old-fashioned belief that “feelings make you weak” is not only wrong, but detrimental because the truth is this –>

–> you choose who to be, and you can be ANYONE YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF AS

–> no one can ever tell you it’s wrong

–> there is no weird, everyone’s normal in their own way

–> and what makes a “man” is not fucking defined by the social norm bullshit of patriarchal gender oppression!!

*and breathe*

Granted, had the show actually ended in S5, this message wouldn’t have been as impactful as it is now, after thirteen years of character journey and evolution, after thirteen years of self denial and fear of happiness. But had the show ended in S5 I’m still convinced we could’ve gotten a reflection of what we’re driving towards now.

S5 could easily have climaxed with Sam and Dean ending the codependency, and Dean - instead of mistrusting Sam being able to defeat Lucifer - actually letting him go, letting him grow up, telling him “you got this”

It could easily have ended with a different angle on Cas’ arc, set up in S4 with Anna and echoed in 5x04 with Endverse human!Cas, where Cas actually chooses to give up his grace and ends up human for that final fight (not just rendered powerless and human-esque after carving that sigil into his chest)

And with Cas human, he would not have gone back to Heaven, we would have ended with Cas and Dean in the Impala, and I can see how the flirting that Dean tries to start up in 5x03 with the Thelma and Louise moment could’ve been built on throughout the season to TELL us that Dean is undeniable attracted to Cas and that it runs deeper than that and, once Cas chose humanity, they would’ve given us this love story in text for the end of the season because Cas would recognise his own feelings as well

And, you know, we could’ve gotten Sam back - the search for God and the hopelessness it rendered ending in God revealing himself and repaying Sam’s sacrifice with life and freedom… 

Because S5 is all about daddy issues in need of resolution and the codependency between the brothers highlighted (as it is in most seasons of course)

But, be aware, this is truly, truly just me seeing possibilities in the structure of the narrative and hell, I’m not going to pretend I actually know the mind of Eric Kripke, yeah? Yeah, no. 

But I honestly, truly believe the pattern of Dean’s bisexuality is there for a narrative reason, which means the reason I got into the queerbaiting discussion was to refute the claims and state my disagreement with them, because you can’t call it queerbaiting when the narrative function of this incredibly important character detail is hit on again and again and again on the show. 

It’s not there for the shits and giggles, you know? It’s not there as some sort of hook for the LGBTQ community. It is a key component of Dean Winchester’s character makeup and it’s at the heart of the reason why he ever needed to go through this journey in the first place, this journey of opening up to love and to being loved for who he is by letting go of his preconceived notions of who he has to be, notions that it’s established in canon have been informed by toxic masculinity.

And this is one of the most powerful why-hearts of any story: searching for one’s true identity and, in doing so, having to face one’s deepest fears and conquer them. 

The deconstruction of the masculine ideal is being done through Dean finding a reason to shed his toxic masculinity, and this reason is tied to his love for Cas. 

Could this have been done with Cas being a woman? YES! That’s the whole point for me. 

Cas’ gender is not important for Dean’s character progression or the role Cas plays in ensuring it - Cas the CHARACTER and his PERSONALITY are what’s important. The way these two men compliment each other emotionally are what’s important. The way they challenge and push and support each other’s growth is what’s important. This is why it has always been a love story - from first frame of footage. (to my mind) (I know not everyone agrees with this assessment)

And the POINT of Cas being a man instead of a woman is, for me, that it pushes the deconstruction of the masculine ideal to its very breaking point, because the ideal is idiotic and prescribes to societal norms that, honestly, are beginning to flake at the edges in modern society as is, thank goodness. 

The ideal is gender normative - men are men and women are women and everything is black and white and straightforward. So to build Dean Winchester into the epitome of the masculine ideal - the man’s man, the stud, the cowboy, the hero - and have him still retain all the qualities that make him that man’s man, that stud, that cowboy, that hero - while also softening him and opening him up and revealing that deep emotional life and all that longing for love and communication and equality and all the personality traits he’s always possessed (and we’ve always seen them) that, according to societal norm, are considered feminine, well, that’s a deconstruction of the masculine ideal worth writing home to grandma about, know what I’m saying?

Consider a woman being the one to open him up to love. Well, we kind of got that with Lisa, didn’t we? Only she wasn’t real. She was a representation of what Dean wants for himself: home love family - but she was, in the end, proven an illusion. Dean was not happy playing house: because he was playing house, still stuck in playing a part he never chose for himself because of course Dean Winchester was never meant to give up the life. The reason he’s broken and lost isn’t that he was raised a hunter (saving people gives his life great meaning and purpose), but that he’s stuck performing. 

So what if Cas was a woman? 

Yeah. He could’ve been a woman. But the fact that Cas is a man adds a layer to Dean’s search for his true identity that would otherwise be lost. Without the love story being Dean falling for a man, they have no real narrative way to highlight his bisexuality without baking it into the narrative simply to have him be a bisexual character. Make sense?

And they didn’t build Dean as overtly bisexual because if they had:

he would have been immediately put in a character niche and the audience they want to appeal to –>

the audience that believes in the masculine ideal as truth, or that are subconsciously influenced by it daily –>

that audience would’ve been lost to them –>

because they would’ve thought “gay” and switched channel –>

no matter how man’s man and heroic Dean Winchester still is with that pink/purple/blue label across his chest

Men enjoying following the story of a man who is attracted to other men will make the men following that story question why they enjoy it, and no man’s man wants to start wondering about their own sexuality. (yup that is a generalisation but one that is based in truth no?) 

“Liking bisexual Dean Winchester might mean I’m gay. So thanks but no thanks. Moving on.”

Like I said: societal norms = stupidity. Okay, actually, that’s not fair or true. The societal norms equal narrow mindedness and fear. And this is always forgivable, because it’s addressable and changeable. 

But this is also the reason why Dean is not canonically in our faces bisexual. (though he might as well be) (like sheesh doesn’t take a magnifying glass)

And this ^^^ is why Cas needs to be a man. Because it completes the deconstruction of the masculine ideal to such a degree, while retaining Dean Winchester’s already established characteristics, because Dean will still be all Dean once he’s actually with Cas, that the question of “What makes a man a man?” should be a resounding one. 

Is Dean Winchester not a badass, brave and tough as nails hero simply because he has softer sides and fancies dudes - one dude in particular? 

Of. course. he. fucking. is.

You are a man because you identify as a man; liking flowery wallpaper and crying your eyes out to Charlotte’s Web does not somehow transform you into something other or lesser than a man. Like… WHERE THE FUCK DID THIS IDEA EVEN COME FROM WHY DOES ANYONE ADHERE TO IT SOMETIMES I JUST

Now, about your last post of the color purple. Let me ask you honestly, you don’t think at some point that all this things are a proof of queerbating if Destiel doesn’t go Canon?

Yeah, so why am I going into great detail to clarify my stance on the structure of this narrative and the approach to Destiel through the presentation of Dean Winchester as the masculine ideal? To answer this ^^^^^ part of your ask!

Because all of the above statements and my view on how this narrative has been built, the way the characters have been built, the way all of it fits together, including my colour theory that you mention :), all of it is the reason why I argue so strongly against the queerbaiting allegations.

And it’s why I cannot, for even one second, fathom that where we’re headed is not towards positive endgame and the tying up of our love story.

Destiel, to me, is already canon. Subtext is such an important part to any text and absolutely no doubt hands down it’s extremely important to the SPN text. 

Dean’s character progression and evolution to where he’s at right now has been built through subtext, and through the deeper subtextual bond he shares with Cas. 

What’s telling is that this becomes even clearer when Cas has been missing from the narrative. Dean made leaps and bounds worth of character growth while thinking Cas dead in S7 (Sera knew what she was doing) and we got a sharpened and focused callback to the depiction of that loss in S13. (gorgeous stuff) Not to mention how Dean has acted as a catalyst for Cas’ character progression and evolution.

This is how you build a love story.

And this is why I’ve been saying since last summer that if we don’t get this love story pushed to the forefront in undeniable ways in S13 I will eat that over-priced and not-yet-purchased hat as self-punishment for being crap at interpreting this narrative, but the way S13 is going… 

All this stated, yes, of course, if they somehow fail to follow through then it will be the greatest case of queerbaiting in the history of fandom. 

But I believe, with every fibre of my being, that they’re following through. 

Okay, that got away from me a little, but it was very enjoyable to readdress the issue of SPN and queerbaiting and I’m amazed you remember that post!! Thanks so much for asking, lovely! And I hope I answered your question. :)

xx

[quailpower]

Me, to myself, if Destiel doesn't become canon despite getting my hopes up.

[deanwasalwaysbi]

It's not about dissecting the intention behind every narrative. It's not about ruining art, or only centering intention at the expense of higher level reading.

It's about queer narratives being the only ones writers and studios deny are clearly written into the text. It's about needing to deny what your story is about to get it made. It's about saying it's "up for interpretation" being progress after years of dodging, denial, and derision of fan readings.

It's about the urge to reanalyze and evaluate reality after experiencing gaslighting. It's literally a trauma response.

[deanwasalwaysbi]

Are. You. Kidding. Me?.

Destiel was Canon in S9

WAS ANYONE GOING TO TELL ME THE REASON SEASON 9 PACING IS SO AWKWARD WAS BECAUSE THEY CHANGED THE EPISODE ORDER AROUND?! 

source: @tinkdw​ post in 2018 linked above and confirmed on 2013 media websites

Dean suddenly having two nightstands for one episode and one episode only was confirmed to be a deliberate choice by the director who is generally a set designer. That was supposed to be right after Dean learns Cas is human? and has had sex? and thinks Cas will live at the bunker?!

That makes SO much more sense.  and I...I’m… anger crying inside? Maybe? Yes. This is SO INFURIATING.  

Jeremy Carver told Misha Collins to play Cas as a “jilted lover” in Heaven Can’t Wait; Misha originally said “Carver told US” before correcting himself.

It’s an episode in which Dean makes up an excuse to go see Cas and lies to Samdreel about it. Dean reacts when he hears Cas has a date.  Dean and Cas have that moment in the Impala before Cas’s date.  

Metatron was going to decorate Cas’s Heaven with half naked Dean wallpaper while ‘cheek to cheek’ plays.

Dean and Cas have that bar scene and then Performing!Dean compensates with an awkward moment where Dean postures and lies about finding April attractive.  The season even opens with a montage implying a love triangle between these two and Crowley and then the show follows up on it for two seasons!

The damn season kicks off with a road so far that asks “who do you love” and each time the lyric comes up the screen shows Castiel or Crowley. 

This was all planned. This was ALL CANON. and THIS SHOW. .... and These people.

Repeatedly told fans they were crazy. Imagining things; Told wider media that the fans were crazy. Brought fans in close, and dropped a VERY unusual amount of interplay between fans and creatives, but was telling the world they were crazy. That’s… SUCH a classic abuser move.

This show’s textual plot involved a bisexual main character and an angel who loved him. This show’s main plot textually involved an angel who canonically creates free will.  and this show’s real textual canon main plot, is ultimately that the love between them allows them to bring free will to the universe….

and the fandom were all imagining it?  

I don’t know why this is what broke the ranting floodgates for me. There has been plenty already; the finale, the script leaks... but it did, apparently.

GO FORTH, BE GAY, DO [not physical] VIOLENCE.

[deanwasalwaysbi]

“Bait, it’s kind of what Cas is for, isn’t it?”

Castiel:  Why are you using me as bait? Kipling:   I mean, it's kind of what you're for, isn't it? 

The show is self aware. I hate them. I hate this show so much. 

This is their next scene after “I thought you two were joined at the, well, everything.”  This was during the reveal that Michael!Dean put Kipling up to trying to become king of hell, which he did by capturing Cas.  Kipling is so queercoded in this scene that he talks about his mother. He talks about Sam’s shoulders and hair and calls him Beyonce.  Send help.

[deanwasalwaysbi]

Wider Look at that BiFlag in Naomi’s Office

I know we all know about the light in Noami’s office during the ‘Goodbye Stranger’ fight, but on rewatch it’s hard not to notice just how white Naomi’s office is every other time, including in the very same episode. 

Before After

The power of gay compels you, well, the power of bisexual male on male love compels you?

The change comes right before Castiel finally convinces Naomi to change her mind about something. Cast defies her soon after, before any fight has happened, by continuing to try and convince Dean to hand him the tablet after Naomi has told him to kill Dean.

Like - okay so

The warehouse isn’t full of Sams & Deans, it’s full only of Deans,

The writers made up excuses to keep Sam and Meg outside when they could have just as easily thrown up a generic, ‘you two go and we’ll cover you,’ because they were making up reasons to get Dean and Cas alone.   

The original line was “I love you”

Which somehow broke through the mind control Cas was under that he was already fighting in Dean’s presence

AND the wall changes color?

And not for nothing but couple that with Cas being the only one to break free of Naomi’s mind control on his own JUST LIKE he was the only one in the multiverse to diverge from Chuck’s plan?

I don’t think we can just take it all as a coincidence.  Whether you think it was the secret underlying plot of the show or you think it was blatant queerbaiting, the creative team on this show so clearly knew what they were doing. 

Set Designer Jerry Wanek said on twitter that the light was a coincidence, and passed the buck to director of photography, Serge.  This is the same Jerry Wanek who directed an episode one year later, 9x14, wherein he confirmed that Dean having two nightstands instead of the usual one, for just one episode, around the time that Cas was human, was on purpose.