"Checkmate"

[the-queens-men2]

girlkisser svetlana is very dear to me, but i need everyone to understand shes so shit at talking to women. with men shes fine, she has it down, but women? oh no

the very first time she had to talk to her crush (picture 7th grade) she stuttered through every sentence and ended with a nervous giggle before running away and begging her mom to send her back to russia until the school year was done

[the-queens-men2]

ahh yes. the shane hollander who considered his team to be the "men he loved like brothers" would know absolutely nothing about them and actually be really cold and emotionless as a captain. the shane hollander who hated sleeping with women but would still go down on them and try his best because he would "hate for the women to feel disrespected", would be a secret misogynist. the shane hollander who noticed his own internalized queer-phobia when interacting with fabian, and understood he needed to engage with the community more and make more queer friends, would never even think of engaging with queer media.

jesus fucking christ, i know these are headcannons but you guys are just going completely against the text, often in a way that paints shane in a negative light. and for the life of me i cant understand why

[the-queens-men2]

I've started watching greys anatomy and they way miranda bailey is to magic is how i think kevin will be to the rookies on his future pro team

[the-queens-men2]

im sorry but troy was almost definitely racist. man who explicitly states that his father is a racist and that he surrounded himself with people like his father, probably means that he was hanging out with racist assholes. troy was a bigot in the nhl, do you seriously think he stopped at homophobia? do you think dallas fucking kent did? the only reason we don't hear about it is cause rr hates bringing up race in her books and prefers to write about sad white men

[hudsonsolo]

Authors on Threads calling out Reid’s response! When fellow authors are telling you hey maybe you didn’t handle this well, I’d suggest maybe listening to what they have to say 🤔

[the-queens-men2]

something I wish more people understood regarding the RR discord drama is the fact that the issue is not only how she talks about shane. shane can be stupid, shane can be selfish, and shane is more than capable of having a million other bad traits.

but why is this only about shane? to my knowledge RR has not spoken like this about ilya or at least not to the same frequency. so then why does she feel the need to consistently reiterate negative comments about shane?

why is the main conflict in TLG, as per her own words, attributed to shane's supposed selfishness (im not going to even get into how i feel about this claim, thats an entire different post)? shouldn't a romance book focus on how the shortcomings of both characters impacts the relationship? why isn't ilya's lack of empathy regarding shane's disordered eating/overall anxiety also a factor, or his inability to communicate until he blows up? why is shane the asshole for not focusing on his sad boyfriend, but ilya is not expected to worry about how shane's anxiety has a significant negative impact on his life?

i can maybe understand how as a white nuerotypical author RR did not initially consider how shane's autism and race would impact his life, and how it would certainly be traumatic for someone like that to be a star player in the nhl. but to not only do that, and then claim that he has no trauma, and then double down and sideline a question specifically talking about shane's trauma to instead talk again about how ilya has trauma because his parents are dead whereas shane has good parents is insane. to have ilya claim in the book that has a white man, he understands the dark side of hockey more than shane, a POC, is insane.

what people need to realize is that when all of this piles up, the jokes she makes are not just jokes. its consistent evidence that she was not initially capable of exploring shane's character with the traits she gave him, nor is she interested in changing that fact.

[constelationprize]

Honestly I still hold out hope for book 3 because I recognize the story is very much not done yet. But I am a bit underwhelmed by most of the Raven storyline so far – to me it's clear that Nora wants to add nuance to the story in a way that either didn't come through like she intended in the first trilogy or that Neil would not have cared about to look; specially in TSC there is a lot of talk about how the Ravens are all victims of Tetsuji, that they started out as brand new adults with stars in their eyes that trusted Tetsuji and in turn got so violently abused they all became unrecognizable shadows of their former selves.

However I feel like at this point talk is all that it is. We are getting told time and time again that there is more to the Ravens, that they deserved better than this, but we don't actually get shown that in any meaningful way. To the point that I do not blame what is the most accepted interpretation of this as just being Jean justifying his abusers because the narrative so far reinforces it even if I'm not sure that it's the intention.

I'm not saying that the way the Ravens have behaved so far doesn't track with the circumstances they are in – Edgar Allan is being completely incompetent at handling the mental health of the cult survivors their incompetence allowed to exist in the first place, and their violent crash out is the most understable thing in the world. And, individually, I also think that the interactions Jean has with the Ravens make sense, the problem is how they pile up.

From the very first interaction with Thea in the first chapters of TSC, to Jean reaching out to Sergio by the end of TGR, all the interactions end horribly, and often violently. And I think that it's past the point where it's actually adding much to the narrative – or, when it adds something, it's the least interesting option the story could take.

To me the biggest example of this is Zane. Through all of TSC, it felt like he was being set up to be like a counterpoint to Riko and Grayson; that his story was supposed to show how the Nest wore down even those with the best intentions. Because Zane might have struck a deal with Jean out of his own selfish desire to be Perfect Court, but all the Ravens wanted to be Perfect Court and no one else offered Jean help; it means something that Zane was in that room and did not volunteer himself to rape Jean, because that was the one act of violence Zane wasn't willing to commit for the Ravens, which is why Riko uses it to punish him later and why it so utterly breaks him. Zane was somebody that had principles, and even if he couldn't be described as being selfless or caring for Jean, he risked more than he gained with their deal. Grayson couldn't be a easy enemy to have, and I don't think that Riko would have reacted to Zane's protection any better than he reacted to his betrayal if it had become an inconvenience to him. Which is why to me it made sense that losing the Perfect Court spot to Neil – after a year of Jean essentially not being his partner anymore – drove him to betray Jean, since from his point of view not only Jean was the only person he could get revenge from without repercussion, but he was also the one to betray their deal first. And I do think that it was important that the betrayal also cost Zane something; when he was put in a situation where he could either rape Grayson or be raped himself and how the resulting trauma of this pretty much broke him. I didn't need the confirmation on TGR to know this had been Riko's punishment because one of the first things we learn about Zane is that not becoming a rapist was pretty much his only moral line.

So that's why his appearance in TGR was a gut punch (derogatory). I feel like he could have been swiped for any other Raven and it would not change the story all that much. And while I can respect what that moment meant for Jean's character development, I do think it wasted all of the potential of Zane as a character. To reveal him to be genuinely hateful of Jean since the beggining and never having taken Jean's fear of Grayson seriously truly trew away so much of the groundwork the first book had laid out for him. And maybe this was just part of his crash out and he will still show any redeeming qualities in book 3, but at this point hoping for that just feels like grasping at straws.

Which is why by the time Jean reached out to Sergio only to get a slap in the face for it only made me feel tired. These beats aren't even hitting anymore because they don't change. The books keep asking us to hold empathy for the Ravens as imperfect victims but it does not give us anything in return, there is no glimpse of a payoff in sight. It's to the point that I even wonder if this is not Nora's intention, to turn around and only show that Jean and by extension the reader was only kidding themselves by holding out any hope for the Ravens to be anything other than two dimensional cartoon villains. Which is A story she could tell, sure, but it's also no different than what we got from the Ravens for the first three books. So what's the point of floating the possibility of that storyline just to shut it down at every turn?

ANYWAY. Again, I'm aware there is still a whole ass book left. What I'm frustrated with is that I genuinely can't tell which way the narrative is going to take, and not in a good way. This is starting to make me wonder if I'm stupid for caring about a plot line the book told me to care about. All I wanted from TGR was an inkling of an whisper of an indication that we were going to get something nuanced and different for once, and I am severely disappointed I didn't get that. This is less about my personal preferences than it is about a narrative going through with the promises it makes. I would not have this hope if it wasn't set up in book 1.

[i-think-too-loud]

i’m sorry but if you can’t portray your dislike of a character without making them ooc then the only thing you really dislike is the version of them in your head. maybe try rereading the source material?

[gremlinnddraws]

Mother of exy

[joejhang]

jean moreau: the perfect victim

essay about how jean is often perceived/stereotyped as the perfect victim; why i don't think it's true and the repercussions it has for fandom discussion and attitudes.

ok i've been hesitant to say this on here because i don't want to get absolutely flamed because jean is such a precious and untouchable character to the fandom (and i understand, i love that man), but i'm gonna say it: i think the fandom has rose-coloured glasses on for jean. and i don't think it's a good thing.

i've said before that the fandom infantilises jean, and i think that is part of the problem. but on a larger scale, i think the fandom just fails to acknowledge a lot of jean's canon character flaws. they turn him into a perfect victim.

i can understand where they're coming from. because of the sheer scale and magnitude of jean's trauma and backstory, it's understandable that a lot of it overshadows, explains and cancels out some of his character traits. a lot of his personality was learned from his time at the nest (e.g. asking to be punished, seeing and using violence as a solution), and a lot of those behaviours he needs to unlearn, but that doesn't mean we can entirely disregard them, because then it turns jean into frankly a pretty boring character, without flaws and dimension and lessons to learn.

i find it interesting the difference in the way the fandom treats kevin and jean, when they're the victims of fairly similar situations. before i get clocked, obviously jean dealt with very different circumstances, and was treated on a different level because he was perceived as an object, and his position to riko was different, but what i mean is that kevin and jean objectively come from relatively similar places. both of them are victims of the nest (though yes, jean is also a victim of rape and specific members of the team, that is an important distinction). it's not fair to discount kevin's trauma or diminish it just because jean was put into a different position and dealt with different traumas. kevin is important, because it's really interesting and telling to see how the fandom is willing to explain away, excuse and ignore jean's flaws due to his experiences in the nest, but refuse to give kevin the same courtesy.

if anything, kevin's time in the nest should be more emphasised when discussing his formation as a character, considering he's been there since he was a young child, during his developmental and formative years. while yes, he is very widely criticised for his bossiness, arrogance and general brattiness, these traits are never considered in context. he's lived practically his whole life (not all, but practically, since the raven lifestyle is so all-consuming) as a poster child for exy. make fun of and/or criticise his obsession with the sport all you want, but it's literally his only connection to his mother (and arguably, also his father) and it is also...his livelihood. like literally, it is his career, it is his reputation, it is essentially his entire identity. his life literally depends on him being the best at this fucking sport. and he IS the best at this fucking sport. of course he's arrogant about it, he has earned this through tireless days and nights, physical and psychological torture from his adopted family, relentless practising and efforts, and a lifetime in front of cameras and under constant scrutiny. as jean says, kevin has earned the right to be arrogant.

this isn't just another kevin defence essay honest to god. i'm circling back just wait.

in regards to kevin's relationship and dynamic with jean, i see a lot of people criticising kevin for being bossy with and critical of jean, but honestly? kevin is like that with everyone. andrew, neil, all of the foxes. probably everyone he has every played exy with. because that is the only way he knows how to relate to others: through power dynamics and clear-cut hierarchy. and, through no fault of his own, he has usually been near the top of that hierarchy. it's strongly implied that, after tetsuji, the raven coaches, and riko, kevin is next in line in the ravens'/moriyamas' fucked up hierarchy. and yes, it's why he says that jean can't/won't hurt him, and yes it's why jean admits that he can't. that's like, the bare bones of it. but yes, obviously personal relationship also factors into it. jean also can't hurt kevin because he cares about him and was, at one point, in love with him. you can read kevin's words to/about jean "he won't hurt me, he doesn't know how" as kevin belittling him if you want to, but honestly i think he's just stating a fact. it's a layered statement, but honestly i think the "he doesn't know how" part literally refers to how jean and kevin stood by and watched each other get hurt all of their years together, and have always stayed by each other's side to clean up afterwards, that they literally do not know how to do harm to each other. because they never have caused genuine physical harm to each other. idk i really don't know what else kevin would be talking about but i digress.

this brings me back to the fact that the fandom loves to forget about jean's faults and nobody else's. this means that jean gets idealised as the perfect victim, and everyone else is kind of demonised for breathing wrong around him (this has happened to jeremy, to kevin, and to cat and laila). for sure, hold characters accountable for their actions, but not when the basis for your critiques come from the wrongful assumption that another character is their victim and can do no wrong themselves, so they therefore always have to be defended against everyone around them who wants to prey on them and do them harm.

apart from against riko, tetsuji, coaches, and at times certain ravens, jean has no issue defending himself or fighting back. yes, he has learned to duck his head and silently accept beatings from riko, tetsuji and coaches, and that's because he was conditioned to. with his peers (teammates, friends, literally anyone else), jean doesn't hold back when it comes to defending himself. even with grayson and zane, jean fights back against them viciously and without restraint, it's just that they overpower him, and also yes, hold psychological power over him. with kevin, neil, andrew, jeremy, cat, laila and the trojans, jean isn't ducking his head or just accepting any kind of mistreatment from them. he knocks jeremy to the ground several times in tsc, doesn't have any problem dragging neil around like a ragdoll, shoves kevin against a wall and manhandles him, has a couple spats with andrew and also inadvertently goes to hit cat and laila in self-defence and reflexively. he can do all of these things, but he doesn't hurt any of them, per se, not with any kind of violent, abusive intention, like the way riko hurt kevin and jean in the nest.

also remember when jean raised his hand to hit the freshmen he was training in tgr??? remember when the only thing holding jean back from beating up his teammates (not just scrimmaging with them, literally "sending them to the nurse") a couple times was because he contractually was not allowed to??? yeah. jean, like kevin, probably, has learned violent behaviours and instincts from his years in the nest. he, like the foxes, isn't hesitant to brawl and beat up his teammates, it's just that he's contractually obligated to be nice (still one of the funniest things ever, btw). please for the love of god stop turning jean into a helpless little meowmeow who can't defend himself. and stop turning everyone that is a little bit mean or bossy with jean into a horrid villainous abuser. it's tiring and boring and literally nobody wins. jean doesn't get to be a complex character and neither does anyone else.

******NOTE i do think kevin and jean have an unhealthy power dynamic in their relationship, one they will have to dismantle if they want their friendship to work out. BUT i refuse to place blame on either of them for this dynamic and hierarchy because they were forced into these positions. like, forcibly and violently pushed into these roles. they were quite literally cult-conditioned into a hierarchy, and it's only natural that they find it difficult to unlearn when they're around each other, so they'll naturally fall back into their roles. i digress.

[the-queens-men2]

I was literally thinking about this the other day, and something I want to touch on is how this relates to Kevin and Thea specifically.

Jean is seen as the character that went through the "most" trauma in the Nest, and was a sort of team scapegoat for the Ravens. Thus, it's so easy to feel sympathy for him and explain away his behavior as being justified because it's a trauma response. However, when Thea repeats harmful narratives to Jean that she was conditioned to believe, or Kevin focuses all his attention on exy, they are heavily demonized. Why?

Because they were treated "better" despite being in the same environment, and thus are not allowed the same concessions as Jean or other characters that have "more trauma". Though their actions are very realistic, especially as abused cult survivors, they are not given a chance to grow and heal by the fandom. For a book series that revolves around hurt people hurting people and still being allowed to heal and love, this fandom has a huge problem doing that for certain characters

I wanna also talk about how much people misinterpreted Kevin's bossy attitude towards Jean, but thats a post for another day

[playthe-piper]

hey so what if kevin doesn’t survive the queen’s game? what if the story dies with him?

[jeanmoreau29]

Divorced single dad Kevin being brought into married couple Jeremy and Jean’s relationship… I’m having visions

[the-queens-men2]

ive been in a lot of fandoms and seen a lot of shipwars so im not new to this at all

but the fact that its happening in THIS fandom of all places is hilarious

[centaur-dreaming]

Thinking about him again and by him I mean Jean Moreau played by Louis Garrel

[casszanova]

[the-queens-men2]

Sometimes I wonder why I never see any hate for Allison for telling the foxes to talk to reporters about Andrew's assault because it was human nature to be curious

and yet thea is hated on relentlessly for using insensitive wording when trying to find out what happened to the boy that used to follow her around everywhere using her limited knowledge of the cult she was a part of

and then I realise

[the-queens-men2]

I guarantee you Nora saw people misconstruing kevins character AGAIN after she tried for the millionth time to get you all to understand and realized this fandom needs things spelled out in fine print

which is honestly great for me cause i cant keep fighting these battles