Hello Everyone, I'm Melody and I'm a Nonbinary nerd who is heavily into other fandoms such as Marvel, Star Wars and Animal Crossing. This use to be a Sander Sides page but I've gotten tired of that fandom pretty quickly so I instead want to dedicate my tumblr page to stuff I'm actually passionate about. So on here expect lots of fun posts but I can't promise that I'll post often.
With that here is the firm boundaries and rules I have for my page.
Do not interact if you are hard right wing leaning and think everything is too woke.
Do not interact if you are anti LGBTQ+, anti trans, anti disabled/neurodivergent, pro eugenics and anti bipoc.
Do not interact if you watch any toxic youtubers such as Star Wars theory.
Do not interact if you treat your opinion as fact.
Do Not Interact If You Don't Like Marvel Phase 4 or Disney Star Wars
That's it I hope you enjoy my newly rebranded page.
NO! I do not think your racist if you dislike Eurylochus.
Introduction
Something in Zippys post has come to light that I want to discuss as I take full responsibility for any harm caused. As a mod on the Eurylochus Discord server I feel personally responsible for causing any toxicity and guilt has been weighing on my mind as a result.
Unfortunately it is with my deepest sorrows after conversing with op that this part specifically is confirmed to be me. It is all a massive misunderstanding that I unfortunately wasn't able to clear up all those months ago because I got heated and defensive about being tagged. They came across a vent post of mine and completely misinterpreted it.
I've made several posts venting my fustration about Eurylochus and how the reactions to his character feel racist point blank without clarifying my words which is dangerous and reckless as unfortunately this person seems to have gotten the impression that I think your racist for not liking Eurylochus which is far from the case.
I deeply regret any harm I may have caused so in this post I want to clarify what I mean when I say that the Epic fandom has a racism problem. As someone who has witnessed toxic fandom I would never want to create that space. When I'm discussing the racism problem I share as a concerned parent.
So let's dig into this so I can hopefully clear up any harm my comments have caused once and for all.
Conscious Vs Unconscious
Bias/Racism
I am nowhere near qualified so I'll link an article below that explains this better than I could.
Conscious Bias- Those with a conscious bias are people who openly hold bigoted beliefs. When they attack are marginalised person it is very intentional. As the article puts it...
"An individual with conscious bias is likely to be explicit with their beliefs and attitudes and behave with clear intent."
The Epic fandom do not fall into this camp at all. I do not believe any of the racism in the fandom or the stereotyping of Eurylochus as a character is intentional. At the end of the day the Epic fandom is full of young impressionable teenagers who have not learned fandom etiquette.
So me saying blanket statements like "I find the racism towards Eurylochus." has been very irresponsible on my part and for that I cannot apologise enough.
Now here's the form I do believe applies to the Epic Fandom.
Unconscious Bias- Those with unconsious bias will hold unconscious prejudices without releasing.
As the article I've used puts it....
"Unconscious biases can be more difficult to identify because it implies that we’re unaware of their existence."
“Unconscious bias refers to the deep-seated prejudices we all absorb due to living in deeply unequal societies."
The article adds...
“Unconscious or implicit bias can lead to instinctive assumptions that a nurse must be a woman or an engineer must be a man [a myth often debunked by our members!] ...”
This is the camp I believe the Epic fandom falls into. With Eurylochus there is a lot of unconscious racism involved with him being treated as less sympathetic compared to characters like Odysseus as well as him being constantly pushed into the black man stereotype.
None of the reactions are intentional or purposeful.
Also I just want to add that having unconsious bias is nothing to be ashamed of and I'm sorry if that has also come across in my posts. Also we all carry unconscious bias so its something we need to learn from.
As this fandom is young I've made posts and discussions due to wanting to call out the behaviour and raise awareness but never have I ever done it because I want to blankly spread toxicity.
I also want to add that if you don't like Eurylochus or he's not your cup of tea, no you are not racist. I myself do not like Calypso or Antinous as well as Zeus and Antinous.
So breaking it down let's talk about who my comments are actually addressed too.
Which Epic Fans Do I Think Hold Unconscious Bias?
When I make my rants I am specifically talking about the fans who actively blame Eurylochus for everything in Epic whilst ignoring Poseidon and Zeus who have committed worse actions. It also applies to those who are sympathetic to Odysseus and his monstrous actions but are disgusted by Eurylochus.
This section of a post I made on my account should help (I'll link it at the end)
TW: Mentions of SA, Murder, Fatphobia and Suicide.
(Skip to conclusion if this could trigger you)
Im also talking about fans who say Eurylochus is aggressive and violent and push Eury into the angry black man stereotype.
I'm talking about the fans who mock Eurylochus's death in Thunderbringer when there are many suicide interpretations of his death and Eurylochus's va confirmed the crew had given up.
I'm talking about the fans who claim Eurylochus is so evil that he deserves to be sa'd as well as murdered for his actions.
Im also addressing the portion of the fandom who have got way to comfortable being fatphobic by calling Eurylochus fat and greedy as well as mocking him with nicknames like big back. Unintentional or not fatphobia and racism are linked so its very harmful.
Anyway those are the fans who I think hold unconscious bias. People who don't vibe with Eury are not in this camp.
What Will I Do?
Something I don't disclose is that I have adhd and autism and am very passionate which sometimes comes across wrong but it is no excuse for the harm my actions have caused.
Emotions happen but alas I am an adult and it is very important to make sure I don't post irresponsible blanket statements that can be misinterpreted.
So from now on any posts or comments I make discussing the unconscious bias in the fandom....
Will have a disclaimer including future posts I make discussing the bias of the Epic Fandom.
I will also make sure to make sure I say the fandom has an unconsious bias instead of racism as whilst it is important to have these uncomfortable discussions I do not wish to give off damaging impressions.
I promise to try be more responsible in the future.
Conclusion
I am very disgusted with myself and vow to do better as in all of my posts I do not wish for people to feel uncomfortable, I also do not wish to scare people into thinking they can't express their dislike for a fictional character.
In a very toxic fandom I wish to be a beacon of positivity.
So with that being said as a former victim I do not condone cyberbullying. Please block anybody who makes you feel uncomfortable and if one of my posts ever make you feel uncomfortable because ive used irresponsible language please don't be afraid to let me know.
Moving on from this, I vow to do better and I hope this posts has clarified things.
All the best,
-Melody-
They/Them
💬 33 🔁 40 ❤️ 205 · Antinous, Calypso and Eurylochus: The Unholy Trinity Of A Fandoms Racism · Disclaimer: I am not excusing anybody of bei
Hello everyone, I'm very excited to be able to share another fanfiction I've published. Feeling inspired by all the Banished Athena and Athena Dies during God Games Au's I wanted to do my own spin on things. I was very stuck until a very anime idea hit me. Suddenly I thought about the fact that Ares and Athena are two sides of war and that in the Epic universe its quite possible that if one of them died the balance would be destroyed. Then another idea came to mind, what if to keep the balance Ares and Athena had to steven universe style fuse into one God.
So I then decided to create the most bittersweet fic I have ever written. Although Zeus finally faces consequences for his actions like he should have in Epic it sadly comes at the cost of Athena and Ares. I also thought it would be good to flesh out Ares bad relationship with his father and his desperation to survive only releasing he was worrying about the wrong God.
Areia was hard to write but I hope I made them the perfect blend of rage and wisdom.
Enjoy,
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https://archiveofourown.org/works/83007611
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Areia's Design
I am not a professional artist but this is how I imagined Areia in my hand. Athena as the one how died first is the base and Ares is mixed in.
I made the armour gold and added phoenix imagery to symbolise Areia rising from the ashes. I also decided to give them the scars Athena would have had from Zeus if she survived. I also made sure to have it so Areia covers their scarred eye because they don't want to paraded as Zeus's warning.
As for the purple its from the fact that red (Ares) and blue (Athena) makes purple.
Despite not being an artist I am proud of this design.
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Conclusion
And that concludes another one shot posted. If there is enough demand I might do a sequel to Areia's stories exploring Diomedes's and Helen and Menelaus's reactions. I can also confirm I have a Poseidon version in the works where Poseidon dies from Six Hundred Strikes and Zeus forcibly fuses with him to save him.
There's also a Eurylochus two shot fic that'll soon be ready to beta read where Circe notices him refusing to enter her palace and things diverge from there. As well as the Ctimene song fic.
I am BEGGING people to learn the difference between Greek mythology and Roman mythology. No, Poseidon didn't rape Medusa. It was Neptune. No, Athena didn't curse Medusa. It was Minerva. In Greek, Medusa was born a gorgon. And I'm certain the relationship she had with Poseidon was consensual.
You know, despite Jorge saying that Epic is about Ruthlessness vs. Mercy and being mindful of when to use each one, nowhere in the musical is Odysseus ever really truly punished for excess ruthlessness.
Plenty of other characters are. Eurylochus and the remaining crew are all killed by Zeus for slaughtering Helios's cows out of hunger and desperation. Poseidon is punished by Odysseus in Six Hundred Strike. And Antinous and the suitors... Well, that goes without saying.
And Odysseus is explicitly punished for misplaced mercy. Poseidon shows up and kills most of his crew because he didn't slay Polyphemus. Athena leaves him for the same reason. He comes to the conclusion in the Underworld Saga that he must "become the monster" in order to get home. We have a definitive moment where he abandons Mercy.
And yet, the same can't be said for Odysseus's wrath. Even when we as the audience should be horrified by certain actions (it's at least implied he went too far with the infant and the sirens), we never really see him learn the lesson that you can go too far with the Ruthlessness side of the coin as well. His ruthlessness culminates in the slaughter of the suitors, which is then immediately forgiven by both Penelope and Telemachus. (And you can't tell me there wouldn't be some kind of reaction to your literal first interaction with your father in 20 years being to watch him slaughter over 100 men in your own home, no matter how justified the reason.)
You could argue that Mutiny is Odysseus paying for his ruthlessness, because the crew only turns on him when he willingly sacrifices six of them to Scylla, but—as mentioned before—that's immediately undone by Thunder Bringer, when Zeus kills the crew for killing Helios's cows. Or you could argue that his imprisonment on Calypso's island is his punishment, but that's not him learning that Ruthlessness has its limits, just that it wouldn't do him any good because she can't be killed by him.
That's not to say that Epic is bad, per se. Gods no! Making a music-only musical of an Ancient Greek tale of that caliber is a feat in and of itself. But I think it is important to analyze what parts of both original content and authorial intent kind of slipped through the cracks when putting out the final product. And in this case, trying to show a balance between these two opposing forces (Ruthlessness vs. Mercy) means you have to work extra hard to make that balance truly come across, and I would say it wasn't fully successful in that regard.
To add to this incredible post. I know he's the King Of The God's but Zeus is the only antagonist to not pay for his actions.
Next to Poseidon he is probably the other God that has caused Odysseus and his crew the most trouble.
Now cut to God Games. Zeus shows ruthlessness against his own daughter and gets away with it.
You have one of your only prominent female characters battered and assaulted without any consequences for Zeus. Zeus just gets away scott free and what happened to Athena goes completely unaddressed with the Aftermath being in an animation visual most might not see.
So yeah Odysseus isn't the only who gets away with his Ruthlessness sadly.
I'm crying, people deadass said it was Eurylochus' fault that Odysseus got abused by Calypso, like yall would rather blame a traumatized dead man than holding the ACTUAL perpetrator accountable huh?
The Doctor And The Second In Command (Doctor Who x Epic The Musical Crossover Fanfiction)
Introduction
Hello everyone, I am very excited to present another Epic Fanfiction to you but this time centered on Eurylochus. It is no ordinary Eurylochus Fanfiction though it is infact a crossover between Doctor Who and Epic The Musical where Eurylochus instead of dying at the end of Thunderbringer gets accidentally rescued by The Fifteenth Doctor from Doctor Who and his companion Ruby Sunday.
Controversially and I mean very controversially Eurylochus is my favourite Epic character so im very excited the very underfed Eurylochus Centric tag. Ive always found him a fascinating character and always thought about how Odysseus in his state brought out the worst in Eurylochus so who could bring out the best in him, The Doctor of course.
The Fifteenth Doctor especially has gone through an arc that's allowed him to open up and be honest about his life and struggles. So pair that with Eurylochus who's been lied to, ignored and shut away having essentially a healthy dynamic with someone like The Doctor could give him an interesting "reformation".
Despite Epic The Musical and Doctor Who being too very different fandoms I couldn't quite get the idea out of my head so naturally I turned it into a one shot. That I might continue if there's enough demand for it but so far with only 6 hits its not looking very likely.
Anway just to emphasise if your an Epic Fan and haven't watched Doctor Who you'll be able to understand the story and if your a Doctor Who fan and haven't listened to Epic you'll still be able to understand the story.
Spread the word and enjoy,
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An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works
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Eurylochus's Modern Design
So this is Eurylochus's companion look. He has a sonic cane made by the Doctor, a bomber jacket and one of the 9th Doctor's top. He also has his wedding ring as a necklace and a recoloured pokemon hat.
I am not a professional artist but its one of my favourite Eurylochus designs.
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Conclusion
And there we have it. Do not worry I still have plenty to post including a Ctimene song fic exploring her grief and an Athena and Ares angst one shot where they end up dying and have to fuse into one God.
I also have plenty w.i.p some about Eurylochus 😉.
Hope you enjoy and if you do enjoy the one shot please give your thoughts and any feedback.
"I hate Eurylochus because of his actions not his race!"
*proceed to make shit up and spread misinformation to hate on him, dumb him down to a racist stereotype although he is nothing like that in the musical, be outright fatphobic and disgusting, interpret everything he says or does as violent, aggressive, manipulative, dumb, selfish or whatever the fuck yall are calling him, say he deserves to get sexually assaulted and multilated, harass REAL people because they like him, make fun of artist and say they are wasting their talent for drawing him, mock his trauma and dehumanize him for his struggles*
(I'm NOT saying all Eurylochus' haters are like this, nor did I say "If you hate him you are racist", you can hate him all you want, I'm just calling out the fandom's problematic behavior regarding this character. If you hate him and aren't a racist, bigoted fuck then I'm not talking about you, if you feel targeted that's on you)
"Why is Polites so whitewashed" Because the EPIC fandom is racist and throw a tantrum everytime someone call out their problematic behavior
They keep the same skin color for "bad" characters like Eurylochus (holy mischaracterization), Antinous and Calypso and make those characters into racist stereotypes (Eurylochus get dumbed down to that dumb angry black man stereotype, Antinous get fetishized and I honestly don't know wtf is going on with Calypso) but make the "good" character like Polites white and a "smol bean who wouldn't hurt a fly 🥺🥺" (he helped sack Troy btw), it got so bad that there are people who genuinely don't know that Polites' VA is a brown man because people either make him white at worst and slightly tan at best. To them, white = good and black = bad. Funny thing is that those white Polites designs often have the glasses and headband, like okay, yall can keep Steven's other features like the glasses but keeping the skin color is suddenly too much, too hard to do.
When they got called out for their racial bias they would say "We only draw the characters like their VAs!" Okay so why do you make Polites white/tan when his VA is brown then? Why do you make Aphrodite white when her VA is an Indian? Spell it out. Racism and colorism is an existing problem and racism isn't just "I hate POC" btw
Hello everyone, I would like to share an au I'm very proud of. It's called the Eurylochus's Christmas Carol Au.
What's Eurylochus's Carol Au?
Well Eurylochus's Christmas Carol is an au where after the events in Polyphemus's Cave, the fates in a rare case have changed their mind s. They no longer wish to see the string of Odysseus's Crew cut right away.
What's done is done though right? Wrong the fates see another way after realising Eurylochus's thread surrounds the crew showing he is their protector whilst Odysseus is their leader. Not only that but it is clear that the windbag is part of Poseidon's plan. He's depending on Odysseus trying and failing to stop his storm.
So the three sisters come up with a cunning plan. They summon Athena, Aphrodite and Hermes and task them with warning Eurylochus what will happen if he is not honest with Odysseus and continues to follow a path of doubt that will to first lead to opening the windbag and then death.
The three God's agree to the task and become God's with knowledge of the past, present and future.
Then it begins on Odysseus's first night with the windbag. Eurylochus is madly worried and contemplating opening the bag until the mangled ghost of Polites comes to visit him and bring him a warning.
So yeah that's the concept. There are many adaptations of a Christmas Carol but this au idea will be
1: Without Christmas Elements
And
2: Inspired By Star Kids VHS Christmas Carol and Mlp FIM's "A Hearth's Warming Tale" where three ghosts are sent to stop Snowfall Frost from casting a spell to erase the holiday.
In this au it's three Gods here to stop Eurylochus from opening the windbag.
So now I've explained the premise. Let me introduce you to the cast.
Art By Julsunart
Meet The Cast
So when I say cast, I mean epic characters who will be filling in the Christmas Carol roles. Of course a lot of roles have been cut out as they're not essential to the story I'm trying to tell but the roles that are cast were fun to think about.
Eurylochus > Ebenezer Scrooge
Eurylochus is no Scrooge the two could be far from similar but the thing is Eurylochus's story actually makes for a really good Christmas Carol permise.
His fatal flaw isn't greed instead his main flaws are Mistrust, Miscommunication and Devotion.
His devotion to the crew leads to his down fall as not only does he come to mistrust Odysseus but he fails to communicate with Odysseus just like Odysseus fails to communicate with the crew. Not only that but every mistake he makes is due to him trying to be the crews voice.
He's a very tragic character who's trauma has stuck him in a box he can't escape from. His caution is reasonable but not balanced.
I really think Eurylochus going on a Christmas Carol like journey would help him to learn to balance both ruthlessness and mercy and let go of his fear.
Eurylochus is not a coward, he just needs to learn to let go of his anxiety and fear.
That being said though he's human and I love him for that. I feel so bad for putting him through this au.
Polites > Jacob Marley
Now before you throw your pitch forks and knifes, hear me out.
Just like Eurylochus is not Scrooge, Polites is not at all like Jacob Marley.
However I do think that Polites being the one to warn Eurylochus of his fate fits perfectly.
The characterisation would be based off VHS Jacob but still Polites at his core. To me Polites would blame himself for his death and feel very guilty about it. He was the one that blindly trusted the Lotus Eaters directions. The cave might have been avoided if Polites hadn't latched onto open arms like a blanket.
So I think naturally Polites would want to warn Eurylochus that his flaws if he doesn't overcome them will lead to his death as well.
Polites's tragedy is that essentially he is chained to wander Styx until he can recieve burial rights.
So overall I think it fits that he'd be the one to warn Eurylochus of where his fate could go if he doesn't listen to the three God's.
Athena > The Ghost Of Christmas Past
I'm not going to lie casting the Ghosts was really hard but in the end for the Ghost Of Christmas past I went with Athena.
Athena and Eurylochus really parallel each other in a way nobody really talks about it. One key one is that they see Odysseus the general over Odysseus the friend. They're not afraid to confront Odysseus for his flaws.
Therefore given that Athena has just recently timeline wise made the mistake of abandoning Odysseus I think that she fits the most as the guide to the past. Especially since her quick thought allows her to flashback to a person's past.
Unlike the boar flashback with Odysseus, I think Eurylochus would actually learn from her reminders.
Aphrodite > The Ghost Of Christmas Present
This was honestly the hardest one to pick. Apart from Aeolus, none of the God's in Epic are really bubbly and optimistic which is essential for a Ghost Of Christmas Present. So I decided to flip the switch and think about who would be best to warn Eurylochus of the current state of Ithaca? Who would be best to warn Eurylochus of the heart ache of his wife and all the other men's families? Who could show him how fractured the crew have become?
Then it hit me.
Aphrodite as The Goddess Of Love fits perfectly since all relationships including platon are all under her domain. She is ultimately the best Goddess for the job as she wants to make Eurylochus understand the turmoil amongst the crew and the turmoil in Ithaca. Eurylochus would hate the suitors and I have a feeling Aphrodite would be very successful in emphasising their threat.
Hermes > The Ghost Of Christmas Future
Again this might be very controversial since The Ghost Of Christmas Future is a silent eiery figure but here me out.
Mlp in their version made Princess Luna the Ghost and I think it worked very well. Even with her voice she still kept that very mysterious and creepy essence.
I believe the same could be said for Hermes if he takes on the role.
Hermes Is The Great Grandfather Of Odysseus and Eurylochus married into the family so he's now party of that cunning lineage.
As someone who guides the dead I absolutely believe Hermes would do anything to drive Eurylochus away from death. Behind that trickster persona is a sinister nature he'd exploit greatly here.
I believe he'd be able to warn Eurylochus successfully and complete his transition to a better path.
So believe me when I say it can work.
Designs
Now I've shared the concept and castings, I'm very excited to share the designs of the au. Each of the God's are designed to send a message via how they present themselves to Eurylochus. Polites's design is very dark as it's meant to show Eurylochus the brutality of his death and warn him of his potential fate.
So basically to summarise all the designs are meant to traumatise Eurylochus.
So for Polites I decided to go all out with the gore because I hate to break it to you folks but realistically Polites's Corpse/Ghost would not look pretty or clean at all.
I'm going with the beetlejuice concept here where your ghost mirrors how you died. At least for this au.
So his cape is torn and his arms are mangled too.
The Green chains are to symbolise not only him being chained by death and unable to cross styx but also the fact that Hermes is the one that brought him out from The Underworld.
Now the hardest part was figuring out how to show that Polites was a ghost. I at first thought that designing Polites with blue skin would be cool but it didn't turn out well. So instead I decided to give him a blue glow and blue eyes to symbolise his ghostly status.
Despite everything though I'm really proud of this design.
Athena As The Ghost Of Christmas Past
Okay so Athena's design was not in question. The aesthetic I was going for is that she dresses like Odysseus and Penelope to remind Eurylochus of the past he is trying to run away from.
She keeps her colours but in essence now dresses like a Royal Mortal. Her hair is done up in a bun with a golden tiara, she wears bangles and a golden necklace. As for the cape it is like Odysseus's but without any tares or signs of age.
Her chiton is dark silver with a feather print on the bottom, a blue belt and gold trim. And to top it all of she wears sandles like Odysseus too.
My favourite part though is not her make up but instead the fact she presents herself with a boar scar in the same spot as Odys. It's again there to subtly remind Eurylochus of the past.
I'd present this design in a better quality but sadly the file is too large for my phone. I hope this good enough.
Aphrodite As The Ghost Of Christmas Present
Doing a design for Aphrodite was challenging as there are barley any references out there of her cannon design but a las I did my best.
Now Aphrodite is basically dressing exactly like Ctimene to not only taunt Eurylochus but remind him of who is waiting for him back in Ithaca. Since Epic Ctimene doesn't have a cannon design since she's not in it, I decided to gain inspiration from @notsolonedesert who's Ctimene design is amazing.
So I decided to dress Aphrodite in pink and red for her main outfit whilst her acessories are gold. The eyeshadow is meanwhile meant to represent a sunflower, a flower that I love to represent Ctimene and Eurylochus and their love with. Just as the olive tree represents Odysseus and Penelopes.
My favourite part of this design though has to be the subtle purple in Aphrodite's hair which is Eurylochus's colour and meant to show who is in the present.
Despite the struggles I do like how the design turned out. My absolute favourite of the designs is Hermes and you'll soon see why.
Hermes As The Ghost Of Christmas Future
Hermes is the coolest design out of the bunch as I really wanted to make sure I took his design from epic and spookyfied him. The first thing I made sure to add was a dark green cloak to sort of give that eire feel of death.
The second thing is that his whole design is foreshadowing Eurylochus's death at the hands of Zeus after he slays Helios's Cattle. To show this Hermes is still dressed in his own colours but his outfit is a fusion of Zeus and my Epic Helios design. Thunder is also all over Hermes from scarring on his face to thunderbolts on his clothes.
His staff is now longer to give a sense or authority and he wears Green Chains to represent the Chains of death following Eurylochus. As an Underworld God he can also use them to drag people to the Underworld.
Overall it's a very spooky design I like.
Conclusion
And so that is my Eurylochus's Christmas Carol au and all of the designs. I hope you enjoyed this little post. I'd normally save sharing my au's until I'm in the writing process but this is one I wanted to make an exception for.
A Christmas Carol is one of my favourite stories so it's really fun to take it and blend it in with Epic.
Its so interesting to think about what Eurylochus do if he knew how things would turn out.
Okay so I made a post explaining about the racism from Epic The Musical fans and in that post I mentioned how Eurylochus attacking at the end of Thunderbringer feels wrong and doesn't help his perception from fans.
I understand that there might be ndas but if your allowed to talk about it, can I ask why Jorge asked for Eurylochus to be attacking with the crew?
Love your content I'm just really curious about this.
Sadly, I never asked Jorge why he wanted Eurylochus attacking with the crew. Jorge had this reference that was only descriptions of how each shot would play out, and it specified that. At first, Jorge wanted Odysseus to look apathetic throughout the whole animatic, like he'd checked out and felt nothing towards the crew. So my first draft focused on Eurylochus showing betrayal, desperation, and grief toward Odysseus' apathy. That version was scrapped because Jorge wanted this moment to be about Odysseus only, not with Eurylochus.
It wasn’t until I finished cleaning up the final approved draft that Jorge realized the audience might struggle to sympathize with a stone-cold, apathetic Odysseus. So he wanted it changed to give Odysseus a more sad and tired expression, making it easier for people to feel bad for him.
To answer your question: Eurylochus didn’t have much focus in Jorge’s vision from the info I got from him. It was all about Ody. It was something like Eurylochus' moment was during Mutiny, where in my part of thunderbringer, he was just part of the angry mob attacking Odysseus.
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By the way, I read your post about the racism from Epic fans, and I agree with you a lot. I haven’t read all of it tho, but what I’ve read so far it resonates with me. One thing I’ll add is how confused I was when I realized Steven Dookie (Polites’ actor) has much darker complexion than me. I was like, “WTF, this man is SO much darker than me, but everyone draws him like me?!” When that clicked, it weirded me out so much. Normally, when people whitewash characters or use extreme colorism, the backlash is loud but in the Epic fandom back then? Oddly quiet…
And about Eurylochus during Thunderbringer... I felt so fucking bad for him throughout the entire thunder saga. Yet the first thing I saw was video after video, post after post, showing him zero sympathy. Like, genuinely, people couldn’t grasp why Eurylochus acted as he did. Meanwhile, those same folks had no problem saying “Oh, I feel so bad for Odysseus for murdering a baby! I’d do the same in his place. Poor Ody!”
But for Eurylochus?
“Why couldn’t he just starve a few more days? 🙄 And how DARE he disobey Odysseus! He should just obey orders!”
Huuuhh??? Don't they hear how fucking vile that sounds? With context or not.
Either way, racial approval bias exists in every media and community. The sad truth is if Eurylochus were played by a white actor, the audience would treat him with more sympathy and nuance. Probably still hate him but they wouldn't go around and say that he deserves to get SA'd. And the even sadder truth? If Polites were played by a Black/African actor (sure, people wouldn’t get away with colorism as easily, but) he’d probably be hated alot more for being “dumb and naive" or the fandom just mold him into the black best friend trope.
Thank you so much. I think your answer actually gives a lot of clarity as to why things turned out that way.
I completely understand the moment was about Odysseus but I wish it could have been about Eurylochus too since he was the one dying.
But main characters get priority.
Also your right I felt terrible for Eurylochus in the Thunder Saga and it was so jarring to see no sympathy given to him.
Like I generally didn't understand how nobody could see the nuance in his actions.
It's weird how the fandom can only extend empathy to the main character.
To me it's sad that black characters can't be given the same sympathy and nuance from fans.
Also for me it hurts that Armando tried to put his heart and soul into every word Eurylochus spoke and it gets interpreted as malicious or annoying.
If a white person had played Eurylochus the fandom would definitely be more respectful to the person and see something other then aggression in the lines spoken.
But honestly apart from that I have nothing else to add. Again thank you so much for answering because it was one moment in Epic that had me generally confused.
Hello everyone. After a few months I am very proud to announce that the final chapter of my two shot inspired by @silvercaptain24 Son Of Poseidon Au and design wise @tagzpite Fishysseus Au as well as the @mydnyteraven , is finally up on AO3
It's been a long road but I'm glad that for once I am finally able to present a complete multi chapter fic even if it's just a two-shot. Whilst it took a lot of time I'm really happy that I was able to get this done. Chapter 2 might not be what you expect but I hope you enjoy it regardless.
Given that writing an amnesiac Odysseus is a massive challenge I opted to switch the pov's so instead of Odysseus we follow Telemachus who is trying to search for his father, Elania the daughter of Eurylochus and Ctimene, Odelia who is Telemachus's younger sister and Pelayo her lover.
I was so nervous to include the ocs but based on feedback I'm confident you'll enjoy them.
Although not very well described I do have designs for Caspian/Odysseus, Epic Helios, Rhodos, Elania, Odelia and Pelayo so if you ever want to draw them don't be afraid to drop an ask so I can send a reference for you.
That being said here is the link to Chapter 2, I hope you enjoy.
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An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works
Here's the design for Caspian/Odysseus and Rhodos.
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Conclusion
Will I come back to this au? Maybe if people are interested. As I say on the fic I am interested in a Rhodos spin off one shot or a fic exploring the Aftermath of Caspian's transformation. There's a lot too explore in this world but I'm happy with what I've done. As for ocs you may or may not being seeing Elania and Odelia in another fic.
Now I've completed Ruthlessness Is A Mercy there's still a lot more Epic Fics I'm working on. I have a Ctimene Song Parody completed and a Doctor Who X Epic The Musical crossover where Eurylochus becomes a Doctor Who Companion. As for other fics I have in W.I.P there's a angsty Athena and Ares one shot I'm working on called The Fall Of The War God's and a two shot called One Last Act Of Kindness which is a time travel fic.
I am very busy but let's just say that this two shot won't be the last fic you'll be seeing from me.
Antinous, Calypso and Eurylochus: The Unholy Trinity Of A Fandoms Racism
Disclaimer: I am not excusing anybody of being intentionally racist that includes Jorge and the Epic Community. I am instead calling out how the treatment of these three characters feel routed in racism to me.
I am not trying to justify or defend Antinous and Calypso's abusive behaviour in the show.
I am not hating on anyone's thoughts and feelings on these characters but at the end of the day you can hate them without being racist about it. To add I'm also not saying Calypso and Antinous's behaviours should be ignored. I am also not saying Eurylochus shouldn't face criticism.
As a light skinned biracial person I am nowhere near qualified to be talking about this but I feel like it is important to use my privilege to call out frankly some of the very disturbing behaviour I've seen from the fandom.
With the disclaimers out of the way.
Tw: The following post will Contain mentions of Racism, Abuse, SA, Rape and Suicide. Viewer discretion is advised.
Introduction
Okay this is a post I didn't want to have to make but after spotting multiple red flags I can't stay silent.
At first I thought I was going crazy thinking and gaslighted myself into thinking nothing was wrong but now I can't deny it.
Epic The Musical has a racism problem both within the show and the fandom. Intentional or not racism is still racism and unlike with other fandoms this racism has gone unchecked.
Now there is a lot of racism in the Epic Community from the white washing of certain characters in fan art and infantilsation of many lighter skinned characters especially Polites.
Something I will absolutely cover in a Part 2 on Polites, Telemachus and Aphrodite.
In the mean time a good post that talks about this can be found here
💬 8 🔁 46 ❤️ 268 · This is literally the Epic fandom
However the problem I want to talk about in this particular post is.....
The handling of Antinous, Calypso and Eurylochus. Three out of Four of the only black characters in the musical.
Now I would include Ares except I haven't seen any extreme or disturbing behaviour towards his character or his actor so.....
The thing is I am all for colourblind casting but not without thought, time and research. If you cast a poc you need to be fully conscious about how it affects what you've written.
The problem isn't with Antinous, Calypso and Eurylochus being portrayed by three amazing talented black actors, the problem is the intense racial stereotypes pushed on them by the writing in Epic and the stereotypes pushed on by fans. Eurylochus I'd argue is more a victim of Epic fans stereotypes but Calypso and Antinous yeah their problems fully start with how they are written in the musical.
It's also not lost on me how the three most "controversial" characters are all black and how Epic Poseidon and Epic Zeus's actions get swept under the rug cos their "hot" white guys.
If Poseidon and Zeus's characters were treated the same, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
So with that being said this is going to be a long post so here's how I'm going to structure things.
First: I'll talk about Antinous, the stereotypes perpetuated in the show and then I'll talk about the stereotypes perpetuated by fans.
Second: I'll go into Calypso, the stereotypes perpetuated in the show and then the stereotypes perpetuated by fans.
Finally: I'll talk about Eurylochus, the stereotypes perpetuated in the show and then the stereotypes perpetuated by the fans.
Then I'll wrap up it up all in a neat bow and open the flaw to other fans. Seriously if you feel comfortable I really would love to hear from other poc Epic fans or just the poc community in general cos my voice on this topic isn't the one that matters the most.
With that being said let's dive into it.
Epic Antinous
His Portrayal In Epic
Epic Antinous to put it bluntly is not done well in the musical at all or done very sensitively. On paper he is shown in Little Wolf as someone willing to do anything to get to the throne, even hurt Telemachus. Sure Lengendary does hint at his intentions very clearly but that's as worse as it gets in the Wisdom Saga. But by the Ithaca Saga he is completely seeped in stereotypes in all the worst ways possible.
And what stereotype do i think is being perpetuated? Well to me Epic Antinous represents the dangerous trope of Black Men being portrayed as Predatory to White Women. I'm not saying you can't have black villians or even predatory villians, infact abuse has no race, gender or sexuality. The problem is that that certain marginalised communities have had these labels for so long placed on them in real life, mainly by the far right. Every day black people, queer people ectr are propped up as predators and groomers and Epic in terms of representation is not helping things.
And when the deed is done
The queen will have no one
To stop us from breakin' her bedroom door
Stop us from takin' her love and more
Now here's the thing sung by Jorge as a snippet it seems fine....
But when you hire a black actor with the lyrics unchanged....
It gets way more disturbing especially given the intense climate we are now living in during the 2020s. Racism is on a rampant climb and your not helping by making Antinous a black man thirsty for a married white woman.
Like I said I have no problem with colour blind casting but how it recontexualises the story needs to be considered especially with the political climate your writing your story in. Once a character is casted their race is the first thing people will see even subconsciously. Unintentional or not your story and the choices you make link to the time its being written during.
Representation matters and bad representation can cause irreversible damage.
Also I feel bad because Ayron wanted to be Tiresias but instead got Antinous and as soon as that happened Hold Them Down should have been rethought immensely.
(It has also been brought to my attention that in a now possibly deleted videos Jorge asked for a black accent for Antinous. That only adds fuel to the fire and is not okay at all. Casting is hard I get it but if you are specifically wanting to cast a black actor, research needs to be done and you need to you know actually consult with the black community. As I'm sorry but we as lighter skinned poc and white folk should not write or even attempt to write black characters without consulting the black community especially when it's for a project as big as Epic.)
Hold Them Down works until SA is added, practically I hate to say it for shock value and having Antinous a now black man sing it is icky.
Not only that but in the context of the story it serves not narrative purpose. We already know Antinous is a threat, Lengendary and Little Wolf proved that to us. It feels like its only added it to make Odysseus look good in regards to the murder of the suitors.
The only possible way Hold Them Down would work is if Antinous's character had not been made to be one note and you kept Calypso's abuse of Odysseus in the musical. They should have been parallels.
Not only that but it looks very suspicious that Circe and Calypso's abuse of Odysseus in the Odyssey have been cut and passed onto Antinous instead.
At this point Ayrons incredible voice is the only thing carrying what should have been a very enjoyable villain.
Instead Antinous reflects real life stereotypes of Black Men today. Angry, Violent, Predator to Woman and a murder.
He could have been so much more but instead he's become one of the hardest parts to listen to in Epic.
The thing is Antinous already had the perfect motive of wanting the throne and wanting power but instead Jorge went the more dangerous direction that will have ever lasting consequences.
One of my creative writing tutors put it best by saying.
"What ever you write in your story has to have a purpose of serving the overall plot. If it serves no purpose it should be cut out."
And to put it bluntly.
Adding the threat of sa serves no purpose to the story. We already know Antinous is an abuser and a threat. Telemachus would have been beaten to the point of death if it wasn't for Athena's divine intervention.
Also outside of things if Jorge really wanted to keep things as they are he should have stepped up to support Ayron and most importantly protect him from any racial abuse.
As far as I'm aware I have not seen him do that once. Jorge has written something that puts black characters under scrutiny. Therefore it is his job as the creator to protect the actors from any harm and consistently show them support.
You know who has done that? Ewan MacGregor
In 2022 actress Moses Ingram recieved horrible backlash for her role as the inquisitor Reva in the Obi-Wan Kenobi Disney + Series.
Instead of staying silent Ewan defended Moses and called out all the hate against her.
Look I'm not asking Jorge to rewrite the musical and talk about Antinous's character. I'm asking him to protect his co-star and actor he hired and show up as an ally. This doesn't just apply to Ayron it goes for Barbara and Armanto too and even Earle.
And no skits don't count. If you want to have black actors in your cast you need to put in the work to protect them and make sure to avoid the typical harmful stereotypes portrayed in media. If you can't avoid stereotypes the bare minimum you do is protect them.
Antinous's Portyal By Fans
Oh boy where to start with this. If you thought how he's written in Epic was bad enough the fans just douse the flames even further.
Reducing Antinous to his shows character is partially forgivable but it's still problematic.
The main issue I see from fans is the glorified simping of his character and just sticking to making Antinous how he is the show. On top he's now the vicious angry black man with no depth or complexity.
Not only that but fan after fan draws him exactly like his va whilst Perimedes the other character he portrays is drawn as white.
Fans can create what they want but the only person I have seen truly break the bounds of what Jorge wrote is the voice actor himself.
Ayron did a cover remix of Just A Man but added a sense of tragedy to Antinous's character and him losing himself to pursuing Penelope and the throne. This cover lead to loads of fans doing incredible interpretations. Not only that it has a black person's voice and handles his character much more sensitively. I'd go a step further and say this is how he should have been handled.
Not only that Jorge actually showed him support on that post. More of that please.
As I've said though people sticking to how Antinous is portrayed in Epic is partially excusable due to the writing but what is not excusable is
Reducing him to just a hot evil guy.
I am not saying your allowed to find Antinous and in turn Ayron "hot" or "attractive" but what I am saying is you need to be more mindful in how you handle it.
I am Aromantic and Asexual so maybe I'm the wrong person to be talking about this but there's a point where attraction or simping can become something more dangerous.
To me the Epic Fandom has already reached that point especially with a lot of white fans.
Now I know Poseidon and Zeus are simped to the point Stephen Rodriguez (Poseidon's Voice Actor) has had to block Epic tags but for Antinous and in turn Ayron it takes on a whole different meaning.
People are like "Why is he evil yet so hot?" and "It's a crime a voice this good sung Hold Them Down." Yet I have never seen "Zeus's voice is hot in God Games, why?" Or "Poseidon is so cruel for what he did to Odysseus why is he so hot?"
You only see people questioning and cursing hotness when it comes to Antinous and because people also comment on his singing voice........
Unintentional or not you are in the danger of falling into fetishising Antinous.
You are allowed to find him hot but it's important to be mindful of what you say.
Antinous should not have his appearance separated from his personality and besides Ayron is a human being. He is a talented human being too.
It is important to be mindful how we talk about Antinous the character and Ayron the actor.
We can not be fetishising black men in 2025 people!
(Ive also heard from other bipoc folk that there's the issue of certain ships being used to fetishise Antinous even more. Nothing wrong with shipping characters but be mindful especially when it comes to that)
That being said Antinous is more than a "hot" black man.
(Also as a Disabled person please look into the Disabled Villians Trope. Not to name, names I'm partially guilty of it myself but I've seen so many depictions of Antinous scarred up or with one eye missing.)
Alright now an issue I will delve into more when it's Calypso's turn cos it relates to her even more.
How come you have other God's like Zeus who literally makes similar references to sa
Pride is a damsel in distress
Hiding away where only I can undress her
Try all she can not to confess
In the end, it's all the same once I apply all the pressure
And Poseidon who literally threatens to gourge out Telemachus's eyes.
I'll take your son and gouge his eyes
That is, unless you choose to die
Don't get talked about but Antinous does. SA isn't the only form of abuse out there. For years of my life I had to deal with cat calling everyday in the school corridors.
So how come SA is seen as the only terrible thing. Poseidon grows an unhealthy obsession over Odysseus in a different but just as bad way.
I'm sorry Zeus and Poseidon deserve to be talked about and hated on just as much. Why is it only Antinous and Calypso?
Trauma adds a lot to people's responses I get that but you can't talk about one form of abuse and ignore the others.
The hate for Antinous is well justified but it's important to be conscious of how you react to his character and how you talk about him.
Alright moving on.
Epic Calypso
Her Portrayal In The Musical
Ah Epic Calypso, the bane of my existence. She is not only a wasted antagonist but one thought out very poorly in my opinion.
I am angry, very angry and disappointed over how her character was handled in Epic.
Before I get into the racial stereotypes I just need to get this off my chest.
This might be a very bold statement but Epic Calypso has to be the absolute WORST written character I have ever seen and Not Sorry For Loving you is the WORST written song in the entirety of Epic and just in general.
I don't even know where to start but a good place would be to talk about how to me Epic Calypso is not only written inconsistently, she has no character at all. This is sadly how a lot of black characters written by white or lighter skinned folk alike can turn out.
You have hired an extremely talented actress in Barbara Wangui and do nothing with her. Honestly it's a credit to Barbara she managed to put her soul into what was given.
Like Orgyia as far as I'm aware is such an essential part of Odysseus's journey home to the point it needs a Saga of it's own.
It's like if George Lucas made A New Hope and then instead of making Empire Strikes Back skipped straight to Return Of The Jedi. What Luke goes through in Empire and the revelations he finds out shape his character in Jedi. We wouldn't have that same emotional weight in Jedi if Empire hadn't been made.
(I am not shading the animator this is just a visual aid.)
Compare the two especially if your a Star Wars fan which makes you feel more, which do you connect with?
The thing is other female characters like Athena and Circe are given proper development and arcs but Calypso is given scraps with any character she had in the Odyssey being given to Antinous instead.
So yeah my first gripe is hiring someone as talented as Barbara and shoving her to the side.
Now onto the real jucy meat.
It's bad enough that Jorge cut away those seven years for fans to fill in with speculation but what's even worse is....
Taking an abuser and kidnapper who's well known as that and making an entirely different character!
Here's an amazing post discussing Calypso's character across adaptations and some of the repercussions of Epic
Calypso in Epic is a possessive kidnapper and is abusive like Antinous, like Zeus as seen by
Anyways, I've got all you could want here
All you could need here
Just you and me, my dear, my love for life
Soon, into bed we'll climb and spend our time
Like she's still doesn't have good intentions. She wants to keep Odysseus with her and never thinks about what he wants. Even during the cliff scene she makes it all about herself.
So at the core regardless of Jorge's intentions Calypso's orginal character is still there. Like for example The Hunger Games movies have been toned down alot upon adaptation but the core of the orginal message is still there.
Love In Paradise portrays Calypso as a dangerous sinister kidnapper who only thinks about her self.
But then a saga later, what we set up with her is gone as Not Sorry For Loving You is set up as a tragedy where Calypso has been left heartbroken by Odysseus and his refusal to love her.
I hate that I fell in love with you
Hate that I fell in love with you
Why did I fall in love with you?
This is not portrayed as the triumph it should be instead it puts the abuser/kidnapper and the centre of the song and tries to make the audience feel pity for her, a complete opposite of her menacing introduction in Love In Paradise.
What makes this song even worse though is that Jorge wrote this as a break up song instead, completely ignoring the fact that Odysseus is not breaking up with Calypso he's literally gaining his freedom after she imprisoned him there for seven years.
Seven years, she's kept you trapped, out of your control
Time can take a heavy toll
It's clear from these screenshots Jorge wanted to write a tragic love story not even attempt to adapt what happened in the Odyssey.
The thing is there are thousands of characters in the Odyssey to project onto Odysseus, Telemachus, Polites heck even Eurylochus and out of all of those you chose to project your experiences onto a CANNONICAL abuser.
I have written poems and even songs about my own experiences but putting personal experiences in a musical like Epic is a different case entirely. It's suppose to be an adaption, a loose one at best but still an adaption.
We'll cover more of this in the fan section but despite his intent, Calypso is not a quirky, fun cutesy character.
Multiple abuse survivors including myself have talked about how manipulative and gaslighty Calypso feels in both her songs.
I even showed a creative writing class mate of mine the lyrics of nsfly and she felt grossed out.
Its worse knowing the way Jorge designed the song and that the NSFLY motif shows up in Would You Fall In Love With Me Again. Grouping NSFLY with Thunderbringer and Ruthlessness suggests even if unintentionally that Odysseus hurt Calypso and that she was just another life he ruined.
So adding this all up
We have
1: A white man's experiences being projected into her songs
2: A character who in the source material is not only an abuser and kidnapper but she sa's Odysseus too.
3: A female character shoved to the side and given barley two songs to cover her important arc compared to Circe and Athena who get whole sagas.
Then you add in the factor Calypso lives on a tropical island and has now been casted as a black woman...
It's a similar issue with Antinous but in a different way.
Not only do you have another trope of a black person being in the role of captor/abuser. You have something else too....
Take any misogynistic stereotypes. Woman are too emotional, needy, selfish, and bossy. That is something Black Women have to deal with but ten times worse.
Calypso now in Epic is all of those things even if there have been attempts to try paint that away. Black Women are constantly looked down upon when they express their feelings. I'm not saying other women don't have to deal with that but Black Women get the full brute force.
Worse is the fact that Black Women's feelings are dismissed and not taken seriously. Then you have Jorge calling her a child in an adults body.
It's all a big fat ball of stereotypes stired up in a pot.
We'll get into more later but Jorge by creating his version of Calypso has unintentional or not created a character who gets infantilsed for her actions.
But Mel. If Jorge doesn't feel comfortable adapting the sa Odysseus faced at the hands of Calypso and Circe he has every right to cut it!
Normally I would agree. If he didn't then go and write gang rape into Antinous and the suitors. I've seen people try to defend Jorge but ultimately there's no justification.
If kind of feels very icky that your comfortable writing explicit abuse from the pov of a Predatory Man but not the other way round.
I've got to say I'm not trying to slate Jorge here, it must have been very tricky to write from female characters pov and adapt a centuries old piece into a musical but there were solutions regarding both Circe and Calypso. Since this is about Calypso though we'll mainly focus on her.
1: Do Research and Interviews
This is the first thing a writer should look at doing if they're covering or adapting a topic they don't fully understand.
There is more then one form of abuse e.g rape, gaslighting, bullying...
Researching into this topic and talking to survivors who feel comfortable enough could have informed Calypso's songs.
As a writer myself I get the enthusiasm and urge to rush straight into writing but there's no shame to sit back and research into topics your uninformed about.
2: Have Calypso's Songs Co Written By A Woman
Right so this one might also stir up controversy but I think it would solve a lot of problems.
If you wanted to make Calypso a complex character with a complex backstory have a female voice help inform the writing process.
I know Jorge has done a great job writing a lot of the songs but it's okay to admit when you've hit a bump and reach out for help.
I think having that female voice would have made Calypso a better written female character and allowed for a more compelling antagonist.
I know this isn't the same as Calypso but when Casper Fox was writing stfs he actually got Tegan to write Persephones verse in this beautiful duet between her and Hades. It is nothing like the source material but at least a female voice was involved.
Listening to some of Tegans own songs you can tell the verse has her voice written all over it and it's all the better for it.
Calypso is missing that voice which could have helped.
3: Write Calypso's Songs In The Style Of All You Wanna Do
All You Wanna Do from Six The Musical is a master class in showing abuse in a way that isn't too "dark" to include. Katherine Howards story cannot be separated from the abuse she faced and the injustice she faced at 19 thanks to Henry.
So how do you portray all that in one song? Well you show subtle implications in the lyrics, choreography and the music.
I am in no way saying Six The Musical is perfect it has slight problems with it's colourblind casting too but at least it is not afraid to show what Katherine Howard went through.
Jorge used Hamilton as a framework originally so he could have used Six as well.
I know Epic has a long history but Six became big between 2017-2018
He could have used this as a frame work in rewrites.
If Calypso absolutely has to be toned down their are ways to go about that and All You Wanna Do is proof.
So in conclusion I think Calypso is written with a lot of careless thought and that should be acknowledged as her writing in Epic plays a massive role into why you get these mixed stereotypes of her from fans.
Like I said I understand adapting Calypso here couldn't have been easy but there are other ways to go about it.
At this point Barbara is the only thing carrying Epic Calypso. Without her all of Calypso's Songs would be on skip for me.
Calypso's Portrayal By Fans
There are two sides to Calypso's handling of by fans. I shall dub them
1: Infantilse, Glorify
And
2: Extreme Hate
I don't blame people who hate Calypso if we ignore the writing for a minute she is a very disturbing Goddess especially with the lyrics she sings. Also she kidnaps Odysseus and makes his imprisonment all about her.
So without that being said lets get into the first one.
I've seen a lot of people take Jorge's approach and turn Calypso into a victim. They turn her into this cutesy innocent woman who is just as much a victim as Odysseus.
It's so bad to the point there's a literal support group for her.
I am not saying it's wrong to make a group like this heck I'm a member of the Eurylochus support group but it becomes a problem when you do it for a character who is a cannonical abuser in the source materials.
There are no posts in this group treating her with nuance or acknowledging what she did their instead justifying it.
Calypso's imprisonment in Epic doesn't not at all excuse the way she harasses, gaslights and kidnaps Odysseus for seven years. He did not want to be there and she didn't care.
Not only that but it is low-key racist to infantilise a black woman and act like she doesn't know what she's doing. The infantilsation of Black Woman and the way their talked down to is a common problem.
When we people make mistakes they know what they're doing. Defending and babying Calypso regardless of writing does a lot of harm both racially and to abuse survivors.
But Eurylochus....
Eurylochus is not an canonical abuser. He doesn't kidnap Odysseus and bring him to the point of Suicide.
There's a difference. Please understand that regardless of Jorge's intentions Calypso is not a little angel and this side of the fandom needs to stop acting like she is.
Right now moving on to the other half. Now like I've said it's a hundred percent valid to hate Epic Calypso but there's a difference between hate and being down right being despicable.
I think the issue is that a lot of Calypso haters have their own abuse trauma and that because of Jorge watering down her character people want to use the Odyssey to fill in the gaps. The one place where she actually has a character.
There's nothing wrong with hating Calypso just as there's nothing wrong with hating Antinous but....
It looks a bit weird when you only talk about Calypso and Antinous.
Like with Antinous there's.
"Hate Calypso but I love Barbara."
"Calypso can burn with fire but Barbara's singing voice is amazing."
Not only that but there's people calling Calypso ugly when she's drawn consistently like her VA.
Funny isn't it how the villainous dark skinned characters are the only ones drawn consistently like their va's.
And
Calypso is the only God seen as explicitly harming Odysseus whilst the actions of the white God's in the musical like Zeus, Poseidon, Circe and Athena all go untalked about.
Circe never gets hate or comments about how she sucks.
Not only that but she attempted to mind control Odysseus into submitting to her. Isn't mind control as bad as kidnapping?
There are other options of passion
You have so much left to learn
Want to save your men from the fire?
Show me that you're willing to burn, whoa
So um yeah how come Circe gets let off for that?
You need to ask yourself why you feel comfortable only calling out Calypso's behaviour and not the other God's.
That being said the babying of Calypso is more the problem but so is people rushing to hate on Calypso and send people who like her death threats.
Moving on.
Epic Eurylochus
His Portrayal In The Musical
Before I start this analysis if you want to hear from the voice actor himself.
This is a great interview where Armando explains his approach to Eurylochus and his feelings on him.
Now going into Eurylochus's portrayal in the musical.
Believe it or not Eurylochus is one of my favourite characters in the musical as hes flawed, complex, selfless and stubborn.
His character arc essentially is him learning to try throw away his fear.
He is the embodiment of the Greek tragedy. Eurylochus tries to stand up for the crew, tries to protect them but he fails because unlike Odysseus he is not familiar with the divine. He is a man thrust in a world he doesn't understand.
Jorge wrote him pretty well I'd say as Eurylochus is not Odysseus's foil instead he represents a path Odysseus could have gone down if the fates didn't have a destiny for him. In Mutiny Eurylochus speed runs Odysseus's mistakes
Sparing The Cyclops < Sparing Odysseus
Killing The Sheep < Killing The Cattle
It's tragic as it shows how there was no avoiding tragedy once they all left Troy.
Eurylochus has a really tragic arc that makes me feel bad for him.
In fact Jorge actually does break away from one trope. The black best friend. Odysseus is his brother but Eurylochus is not afraid to call out Odysseus especially during Storm and Mutiny. Normally the black BFF or sidekick is there to support or be obedient but Eurylochus isn't he has his own thoughts and priorities.
Unfortunately they just don't come across well cos we never get Eurylochus's pov. Odysseus is shoved at the forefront of all of Eurylochus's songs even Luck Runs Out. We're never able to develop him with a short solo or anything because it's all Odysseus's pov. We see or well hear what Ody hears.
It also doesn't help that Eurylochus isn't just Eurylochus unlike Polites his instrument is the crew. Which means he embodies all their thoughts too.
Despite all that Eurylochus is compelling. Thunder Saga was so emotional and Armando's performance crushed me.
Also it is important to note that in the cut songs Eurylochus was ACTUALLY intended to be a villian. It is good that Jorge changed Eurylochus into a compelling character and strayed away from a villainous path. Things would have been so much worse if Eurylochus was another villian .
As that would mean minus Zeus and Poseidon, nearly all of Epic's antagonists would be black.
So we really dodged a bullet there.
Okay back on topic to Eurylochus's cannon Portrayal
The thing is although Eurylochus is built up very compelling it all comes crashing down due to one visual decision Jorge made.
Art by anniflamma
Listen this moment is completely out of character for Eurylochus. It feels like he's been possessed or something. That's not the Eurylochus I've been following.
Jorge has described Eurylochus as complex but this is not complex at all. It would be like if Return Of The Jedi had kept it's orginal ending of Luke becoming Darth Vader.
The original ending that George Lucas had planned for Return of the Jedi involved Luke Skywalker becoming the new Darth Vader.
We've established that in the Thunder Saga Eurylochus has lost all hope and believes they're never gonna make it home. So then why does he attack Odysseus at the end of Thunderbringer? Thematically it doesn't feel right.
Armando puts alot of emotion into Eurylochus's words and the "But we'll die?" is not angry or confused. It's ACCEPTANCE. Eurylochus is making one last attempt to appeal to Odysseus's humanity but it's useless. Eurylochus is going to die and he sounds reluctantly accepting of that.
So why would you suddenly tone shift to Eurylochus straight up attempting to take Odysseus down with him. Instead of a redemption or having Eurylochus defend Odysseus you completely go against Armando's performance for the spectacle and have him attack with the crew.
I swear to you this one scene is probably where all the stereotyping of Eurylochus comes from.
I'm all for spectacle Anni's art is beautiful here but not at the cost of character.
Sure there's the moment Eurylochus spares Odysseus after Mutiny but now to the fandom you've painted him as an angry bitter selfish black man.
Jorge did not think that through. If he wanted Eurylochus to be complex he needed to make Eurylochus's last moments alive count and sadly he didn't.
Apart from that though the writing for Eurylochus is good. He's an interesting flawed character that for me has been really exciting to explore in my own fanfictions...
Now let's get onto the fans.
Disclaimer I've been trying to hold back but now well I might not so much. This is because mental health is very personal to me and I am flat out enraged by fan interpretations of Eurylochus.
Eurylochus's Portryal By Fans
A while back Danny Motta finally put out his reaction to Epic and released this poll. Sure we can't compare with other characters but if this doesn't give you a sense of how disliked Eurylochus is I don't know what will.
Seriously my favourite nickname for Eurylochus is the Epic Fandom's punching bag because that's how he's treated. He's used to shield all accountability from the other morally gray characters in the show.
Not only that but you literally can't draw art, make edits, make videos without the comments turning into a debate club. I've seen that with no else but Antinous and Calypso.
Art By Zwist and julsunart
Poseidon, Odysseus, Perimedes, you name it he's always blamed because of that cursed windbag whilst the white characters mistakes go ignored.
The windbag jokes wee funny at first but now they're old and annoying.
I'll go into this more but since the Thunder Saga Eurylochus's reputation has been smashed into the "selfish" guy that opened the windbag and killed the cow.
These two posts explain how the fandom misunderstands him really well.
💬 0 🔁 3 ❤️ 11 · I can only sugarcoat this for so long. SOME OF YOU EPIC FANS ARE DUMB. LIKE REALLY DUMB. · CW: Crash out post. Im kinda me
If we get into all the ways Epic Eurylochus is misunderstood we'll be here all day so instead I'm going talk about some of the main issues I've noticed.
1: The Double Standard
Ody Vs Eury
What I've noticed is that Eurylochus's compared to other characters recieves a much more higher standard on him then all the other flawed characters in the show.
One form of racism still common today is placing higher expectations on people of colour and being less courteous when they make mistakes.
To get to my point Eurylochus like Odysseus is just a man and makes mistakes. They are parallels of each other and opposites.
Odysseus reveals his name and kingdom to the Cyclops putting everyone in danger. Eurylochus opens the windbag and carries that guilt with him the moment Poseidon destroys the fleet in Ruthlessness.
Odysseus distances himself from the crew and is willing to do anything to get home e.g trying to push through an impossible storm, sacrificing six men to Syclla, going nine days without sleep, torturing a God....
Do I need to go on?
Meanwhile, Eurylochus is a man doing all it takes to keep the crew happy and alive.
I just don't wanna see another life end
That's Eurylochus's goal and he takes it very seriously to the point that when the crew has lost all hope, killing the cow and having full bellies feels like more of a merciful death.
Eurylochus isn't an evil character, he's a tragic one. Every mistake he mistakes in trying to help the crew actually leads to their down fall.
1) He opens the windbag (A rigged trap) that leads to Poseidon.
2) Traumatised and scared of Circes's power he suggests they flee to protect the men left. (Which meant that he could have lost Odysseus if Hermes hadn't leant a hand)
3) He spares Odysseus in Mutiny not willing to kill his brother after everything. (Simillar to Odysseus sparing the Cyclops)
4) In a moment of hopelessness and vulnerability he kills one of Helios's Cattle despite the pleas.
He makes tragic human mistakes like Odysseus does, yet gets way more hate for it.
This is not a morality competition a lot of the crews problems could have been solved if Eurylochus and Odysseus actually communicated with each other so why is Odysseus the only one given grace.
If both Odysseus and Eurylochus were played by black actors then prehaps it could be shrugged off but at that end of the day. Epic Odysseus (A white man) is pitted for the mistakes he made whilst Epic Eurylochus (A black man) is consistently demonised.
You can hate Eurylochus but there's a difference between hate and completely misunderstanding his character.
Eurylochus is not the bad guy who wants to ruin Odysseus's life, he is a failed protector just as Odysseus lost ten years with his family because of his hubris.
Polites Vs Eurylochus
But Mel, Eurylochus is constantly pushing back against Odysseus?
Well you know who else does that?
Polites. Eurylochus and Polites push back against Odysseus they just got about it in separate ways.
Compared to Eurylochus, we don't get much from Polites but Open Arms establishes very clearly his goals and mindset.
Polites now that the war is over wants Odysseus to open up his heart and learn to trust again.
He's essentially Eurylochus's opposite.
Whilst Eurylochus wants to live with caution and fear, Polites wants to give the world a chance again.
BOTH EURYLOCHUS AND POLITES VIEWS GET THEM KILLED
Open Arms thematically works exactly like Luck Runs Out accept Polites succeeds where Eurylochus fails. Polites manages to push back against Odysseus's views. In Open Arms once Odysseus has revealed the true nature of the Lotus fruit, warning Polites that it's proof to not be trusting. Bright old Polites here decides to not only trust but ask the drugged up Lotus Eaters where to find food.
Lotus eaters
I'd like to show my friend that kindness is brave
Could you tell me where there's other food to eat?
It's right there in the lyrics, Polites as a friend is trying to prove something to Odysseus. The same way Eurylochus is trying in Luck Runs Out to get Odysseus to slow down and remember the dangers of the God's after some of them died on the last island to Polyphemus.
Polites's desperation to see goodness in the world and trust everyone leads him to his own demise at Polyphemus's hands.
We know the Lotus Eaters aren't to be trusted because one of them whispers.
The cave (Scary cave)
And Athena literally rebukes Odysseus in the following song.
Have you forgotten to turn off your heart? This is not you
So therefore it can be argued Polites plays a part in being responsible for his death and the death of the other crew at the Cyclops Cave.
Just as
Eurylochus opening the Windbag sets off a chain of events that lead to Poseidon.
Yet despite all this Polites pushing back against Odysseus is see as cute and heartwarming and Eurylochus is seen as annoying, whiny and selfish. Ask yourself why if you think this?
Not to mention that Polites is never told he deserved his death for what happened on the Lotus Island whilst Eurylochus apparently deserved to die for the windbag and the wrongs he committed in the Thunder Saga.
I'm sorry the fact that Eurylochus out of our beloved trio is the only who gets harsh treatment and almost zero empathy is very suspicious. It's like double standards have been put on Eurylochus.
2: The Dumb Angry Black Man
As far as I'm aware there are no racial stereotypes in Jorge's writing regarding Eurylochus. Sure there were some present in the cut songs but as I said they were CUT SONGS. Cut for a reason because the songs robbed Eurylochus of any complexity.
All the stereotyping are from fans unfortunately all starting the moment the Thunder Saga came out. It is not a coincidence that all the disturbing jokes and hate started the moment Eurylochus got thrust into the spotlight. I got into the fandom between Cyclops and Ocean and never saw him discussed that much until Thunder.
Think about it?
People are only talking about Eurylochus because in the spotlight he went against the main character and stood up for himself after Odysseus killed six members of the crew without telling him. Not to mention his suicidal act of killing the cow which people always turn into a joke.
To me it feels like fans are only happy when the Black Side Character/Best Friend is only supportive of the white main character.
When he opposes the white main character he's the "aggressive" bad guy.
This trope refers to a stereotype that portrays black people in general, and black men in particular, as perpetually (and often irrationally
Fanon Eurylochus very much falls into this category. His character is seen as dumb and stupid for complaining about the lack of food. He's also seen as a rebellious boy that Odysseus has to talk down too.
Don't believe me?
Eurylochus is constantly seen as hypocritical, aggressive and dumb.
That is a stigma black men have to face alot.
In America tons of black men face violence at the hands of institutions because they "seem aggressive". Legit grabbing stuff from pockets could be seen as provoking police.
The fandom treats every mistake or move Eurylochus makes as villainous and holding Odysseus back therefore unintentional or not perpetuating that stereotype.
Not to mention the fat phobic nickname of "big back" and how he's seen as evil in full speed ahead from reminding Odysseus they need food.
Racism and Fatphobia connect very deeply. Funny how Eurylochus's hunger is constantly turned into a joke right?
Learn about the racist origins of fatphobia and weight stigma in our society. Within Health is working to destigmatize fatness and remove bi
So in conclusion the complex nature of Eurylochus is always seen in a very negative light.
3: Dehumanised And Mocked For His Struggles
Whilst people always manage to find Odysseus's humanity buried in the monster, understand why Poseidon was hell bent on revenge and that Athena abandoning Odysseus hurt her too. That same courtesy is never given to Eurylochus.
For some reason despite having the crew as his instrument and his own tragic arc. Eurylochus is not given the same grace.
From hunger to betrayal to suicide, no empathy is extended to Eurylochus. His trauma, his downfall is seen as the butt of the joke and almost entertaining.
In Mutiny and Thunderbringer, Eurylochus is brought at his lowest wanting to commit suicide with the crew as all hope is gone. Odysseus is willing to kill any one of them to get home, there's no food and they can't escape Poseidon. Worse is that the moment Eurylochus realises what he's doing he snaps out of his despairing trance.
Also Odysseus goes and proves him right as if almost revealing his true nature. Seeing no other option Odysseus sacrifices them.
Yet this tragic scene is always spinned into a victory for Odysseus, never a tragic death.
Eurylochus is flat out mocked for his line
But we'll die
And his lines during Mutiny are just as mocked when it's literally the words of a suicidal man being backed up by a suicidal crew.
How much longer must we suffer now?
Mental health matters until it's the flawed black side character who spirals am I right?
Don't believe Eurylochus's trauma is turned into a joke here's two examples. Fiy I'm not sending hate to these creators im just using these as a chance to educate.
This to me is a very clear example of the tragedy of Eurylochus being spun around to say. Oh poor Odysseus he had to deal with such an annoying older brother. No consideration that Eurylochus might be worried for Ody and the crew he's just seen as a annoying.
It seems to be a common trend to baby and demonise the crew especially Eurylochus. The thing is their not babies Odysseus has to put up with, their grown ass men. That is why seeing jokes like this spread around confuse me. Why do you feel bad for Odysseus having to deal with the crew but not the other way round?
This type of post has been all too common since the release of the Thunder Saga and it breaks my heart.
There is nothing wrong with being frustrated at the main characters plight but when that same empathy is lacking for the black side character it's a little bit sus.
"The audacity of Eurylochus to be angry at Odysseus for chosing himself!"
That's not what's happening in that scene and honestly it makes me feel bad for Armando. Armando puts so much emotion into each of his lines especially in the Thunder Saga.
It's why I'm always extremely uncomfortable when people mock Eurylochus's "Captain" and "But we'll die."
I challenge you the next time your listening to Thunderbringer to listen to the emotion in Armandos voice and ignore Jorge's visuals.
The "but we'll die" holds no aggression or stupidity. Eurylochus is done. He's trying to remind Odysseus of his humanity even though he knows its useless.
That ending to Thunderbringer is not something to mocked at all, Eurylochus if anything has accepted defeat. So why are you turning it into that.
If anything Eurylochus would agree with you all that he deserves to die, doesn't that tell you something?
Eurylochus is a human too and it's very suspicious to ignore that and use him to shield other characters from any accountability.
Mental health matters and the way you all discuss Eurylochus's death and in turn mental health will have consequences.
As shown in the linked article black folk have the lowest rate of mental health treatment.
They're often shamed and judged for their struggles in real life, so hypothetically
Say a young black person comes across this fandom and sees a character who looks like them get mocked and dehumanised by the fandom for his struggles. Is that a good look?
Eurylochus in Epic has flaws but his flaws don't undermine his struggles. Just like how Odysseus deserves empathy even if his struggles stem from his actions of revealing his identity to Polyphemus.
I have to say that even though I'm a lighter skinned biracial person. The fandoms treatment of Eurylochus's mental state has even made me feel unwelcome and unsafe especially knowing Odysseus has sympathy for his suicidal thoughts but Eurylochus gets none.
Suicide is not selfish period yes it hurts people but it's also a lot more complex then you think. It is not something to joke about it. I honestly might make a separate post about this cos never mind SA the fandom doesn't tackle the discussion of suicide well at all.
Would you be suprised though if I said that Eurylochus's treatment gets worse.
4: Eurylochus Deserves.....
Fellow reader if you are bipoc or have trauma I advice to step back because what I'm about to share is very disturbing...
So before we get into the mega serious issue there's the minor thing of how whilst other characters get unique and fun designs Epic Eurylochus is consistently drawn the same as his va. The only slightly different designs are from people who give Eurylochus braids or curly hair to show that his hairs grown out. It's just, I've seen the creativity of Epic fans so it's a little strange to me that he only gets drawn the same.
Now onto the main thing.
"Eurylochus Deserves to Be SA'D for his crimes."
Recently Slime, an amazing content creator I know made an au called the closure au.
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNHppw4JFYDjK-cvm28/
The closure au follows a scenario where Zeus becomes Eurylochus's, Calypso. He survives Zeus's bolt so is offered to stay on Olympus as his servant in exchange for Odysseus's freedom.
The problem is not with the au it's with the fans reaction. I have seen before Slime deletes them, multiple disgusting comments saying this about the au.
"Eurylochus deserves it."
I wish I was kidding but no, I've seen it for myself and so has Slime.
To put if simply if you feel sympathy for Odysseus and are angered by the abuse he faced at the hands of Calypso and then go around saying Eurylochus deserves to be abused by Zeus in that au then not only are you hypocritical and insensitive to surviors, you also have internalised racism you need to unpack.
No one and I mean no one, fiction or real deserve to experience abuse. PERIOD!
Eurylochus did bad things and his death in cannon was a consequence of all that. Even if it's an au, what Eurylochus went through is unjustifiable.
Violence against black people is a real serious issues and the way you talk about Eurylochus even if he's fictional has weight.
Please be considerate and more thoughtful and ask yourself why out of all the antagonists/morally gray characters in Epic, Eurylochus is the one provoking you to these kinds of thoughts.
Eurylochus is more then the person who opened the windbag and killed the cow and he's not the only one who hurt/delayed Odysseus's journey so stop acting like it.
He is also not Epic's Aaron Burr (The two are completely different characters)
I could ramble about this all day but in short Eurylochus hate feels very deep wired in racism and double standards. Lord forbid a complex black character exists.
Conclusion
In conclusion it is okay to dislike certain characters in Epic. (For example I have a deep distain for Epic Zeus.) However what is not okay is having Eurylochus, Calypso and Antinous characters being the most hated without confronting why that maybe?
Why do you feel comfortable hating on Antinous but don't talk about Zeus? Zeus, who not only makes a sa metaphor in Thunderbringer but also is a child abuser due to deciding to assault and disable his own daughter.
Why do you feel comfortable talking about Calypso's abuse but ignore the way Circe almost mind controlled Odysseus?
Why do you blame Eurylochus for the 500 men and not Poseidon for striking the blow?
I love the Epic Community but if we don't acknowledge the racial stereotypes in the writing of Epic and the stereotypes/biases fans have towards the characters of Antinous, Calypso and Eurylochus. Then we are in danger of letting this behaviour continue.
Thank you so much for taking your time to read this post it couldn't have been easy. I hope you have learned something and understand my concerns.
For now though I want to pass the discussion on to the black community and black epic fans. I really don't want to speak for you. So if you feel comfortable please reblog this and correct me if I've gotten anything wrong.
I too am just a human and don't want to spreading misinformation.
Below in the comments I'll have more resources to check out.
And I'll try make a part 2 addressing the other bipoc characters in Epic.
I hope you're doing well. Today, I’m reaching out with a heartfelt request. My family is going through an incredibly difficult time, and I need your help to make our story heard.
🔄 A simple reblog of my pinned post can spread awareness.
💖 A small $5 donation could bring hope where it’s desperately needed.
@nasr-daher
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