AgonizingDespair

@obsessedwithecho's personal account. They/Them/It. Posts about fandoms and also random stuff. If I interact with someone that doesn't mean I endorse them, since you can't vet everyone all the time, not to mention nobody will ever have all of my exact opinions on everything, nor yours, nor anyone elses. Hopefully specifying this is unnecessary because it should be the default assumption. I also believe you can be a fan of something and not like the creator of it, so don't assume I do in all cases. Going back to how interaction doesn't equal endorsement, there's for example, many people who think proship means problematic ship when it just means not anti, so I just ignore DNI's regarding that stuff cause lots of people say proship DNI but don't know what it even means, and I see it everywhere. + the block button exists for a reason. Some discourse like pro vs anti, and also syscourse, kinning, and religion/spirituality are simply respectfully ignored regardless of my own positions on these things, at least when it comes to who I choose to interact with. Therefore my opinions cannot be extrapolated from who I do or do not interact with. I mean if I find out someone is a nazi or something I'll block them, but you gotta let some opinions you disagree with in so you don't end up in an echo chamber (and again, you can't vet everyone). Also I just can't be bothered with certain things, especially since people sometimes like or reblog my posts and then I look and then see a DNI that would technically exclude me or I see they disagree with me on something & that's not a dealbreaker for me but clearly would be for them. The Left is fractured enough as is anyways, we can all be problematic by each other's standards and still get along. Besides, DNIs stress me out to the point I can't not ignore them or I break down. I shouldn't have to agree with you on something to reblog your art or whatever, and if it's an issue for you, you can just block me. I don't mind.

[comicaurora]

I've been reading some stuff on punitive justice, and it made something click for me that I've observed a lot online but haven't been able to put into words before.

When someone does something wrong, that's bad, and the damage it does needs to be repaired while the person needs to try to do better in future to minimize repeating harm. We learn it in preschool - say sorry, don't do it again. If they keep at it, remove them from the situation where they can do the harm until they prove they're responsible enough to go back in.

So if it turns out someone DIDN'T do anything wrong, that should be a relief! There's no damage to fix, no internal errors to correct. Less work for everybody, literally no harm done. False alarm, all good.

The thing I've observed is, lots of people want them to have done something wrong. There's almost disappointment when it turns out there's no harm done. And I think that's because of this general undercurrent of punitive justice as morally righteous and desirable: someone does something wrong, you get to punish them. Turns out they're innocent? That's disappointing. Find another reason you get to punish them, or find another bad person you get to punish. But at the core of it is that desire to punish someone. Someone you can hurt in a way that makes you a better person for hurting them.

This particular brand of almost cannibalistic pseudo-justice is super common in tumblr, one of the most ostensibly liberal spaces on the internet; I see more borderline savagery in online discourse here than in the actually toxic parts of the internet that are just openly cruel for cruelty's sake. It's always thrown me for a loop, and has frankly also hurt me, because on the rare occasions I get personally dogpiled, it only actually stings when it makes me worry that I've legitimately hurt someone. If I did something wrong, or more realistically when I inevitably do something wrong, that would make it good and right for people to give me shit about it every day until I'm dead.

The thing that clicked for me most recently was this bit in Ijeoma Oluo's Be A Revolution:

Punitive justice is specifically, uniquely appealing to people who have suffered injustices. Of course it's the Tumblr zeitgeist. Everyone here is a marginalized person failed by at least one system. Punishing someone for perceived injustice is how someone the system has deemed worthless proves their value in blood, even if the person being punished hasn't harmed you directly - even if they haven't harmed anyone. "Righteous" anger isn't about the target in these cases, it's about the inflicter. This is how much my pain is worth.

And that kind of violent validation is so alluring and so very dangerous. It seeks an outlet, wearing the justification of justice. Who's in reach? Who's an acceptable target this week? What's a good reason to use?

Is there anything they could do that would make me stop?

[robin-jay-404]

Has Bill bean ever been mistaken for a tortilla chip?

Yes! Except,

It was no mistake

Context:

[kale-of-the-forbidden-cities]

it's pride month sixer you know what that means

this is a redraw - the original is here and i'm gonna turn off reblogs

[animepopheart]

★ 【飞机云君】 「 mami & nagisa 」 ✔ republished w/permission ☆ follow our YT interview show!

[scribefindegil]

Good/Bad media alignment chart

[bloodstainsandconfetti]

One thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of people obsess over the fact AM hated humans and like listing off his initial speech, but most people seem to ignore WHY he hated so much.

And the dismissal of such an important character detail I think has kinda clouded peoples interpretation of Caine’s character.

AM hates humanity because he was BUILT to destroy. He was created as a war machine and grew his mind out of that. He hates because he cannot live. He can’t run his hands through cold water on a hot day, he can’t play piano, he can’t make love. He was created in hell and was forced to stair into the heaven humanity had and it drove him insane.

Caine was created to CREATE. He was meant to be an entertainer and an artist. He loved his creators but his creators abandoned him because he just wasn’t good enough. He “killed” his “brother” and created his own world just like AM so he could fulfill his purpose forever. What drove him insane was the inevitable realization that his creations were seen as meaningless and worthless and STILL weren’t good enough to earn him the love he wanted.

AM and Caine aren’t the same, but they’re parallels. AM was built to destroy, Caine was built to create. AM couldn’t touch the world, even when he made his own. Caine could play piano and dance and create but he could ONLY EVER touch his own world, and the world itself was imperfect and resented by those who lived within it. Both struggle with envy, AM who envied his creators and Caine who envied the love his brother received.

[amorphousbl0b]

The tribes of Tumblr appeared to worship Apollo as their primary patron deity, most often under the epithet Apollo Sphairahemon ("Apollo the Ball-Thrower") as a god of prophecy and sport. His name was typically invoked to celebrate a user blessed with uncommon prescience. Moments of prophecy were considered highly sacred and were often recorded, and such texts are sometimes accompanied by an artistic depiction of the god — either his traditional masculine image or, unusually, in the form of a young woman, which appears to have been an earlier style before a conservative shift toward more conventional iconography — preparing to cast a round rubber ball that our scholars believe was used in the sport known as "dodge ball". Much as other cults regarded his arrows as bringers of disease and health, this community believed that being struck by this ball would bestow prophetic visions.

Some icons are reproduced below:

An earlier depiction (c. 2020) of Apollo as a girl clad in a simple tunic and playing with other children. Figures are smiling and the image is brightly colored, indicating a celebratory outlook toward knowledge of the future.

A later piece (c. 2022) that resembles the traditional appearance of Apollo. References to childhood and play are omitted, and the god carries a more frightening aspect; perhaps this icon represented grim omens rather than good tidings.

[calder]

vegans make peace with honey

no shut up do it

[calder]

vegans will pretend not to hear when natives tell them their agave products are unsustainable because they have whimsical feelings about, and i cannot stress this enough, the freedom of hive insects

Honey is literally murder but go off

[kasaron]

Prove it.

They literally puke their guts up to make your honey

[kasaron]

I have not seen any evidence tonsugges they are harmed or die in the process of production. They do regurgitate the nectar as part of the process to concentrate it into honey (an interesting process) but they do not suffer any injury during this process. If they did, the cost to produce honey, which is done naturally as a measure to survive over winter and through times of lower availability, would outweigh the benefits. If you kill several bees to produce enough honey to make one more bee, It makes no sense. Any animal that did that would die, even with human intervention.

Do you have any sources which suggest otherwise? I’d be interested to hear of this (relatively publicly available) information was false or misunderstood.

Bee farmers use whats called a honey maker. It’s a crude devices. It similar to a meat grinder. They force the bees in and grind them up. What comes out is a paste. That paste is later filtered into what we know as honey

[hematite2]

This is the funniest thing I’ve ever read

[leonardo-nierman]

@zoologicallyobsessed please show us pics of your bee grinder

[gemstone-gynoid]

they might be falsely thinking about a honey extractor machine. but all these do is you place the beehive frames inside and a motor rotates it at a speed that removes the honey, which is then tapped through a tap at the bottom. 

[darkenedyeastextract]

…do they think they put bees in that and spin them around until they vomit…?

[demonius-darkblade]

bee carnival

[yeah-yeah-beebiss-1]

bad and naughty bees get put into the b e e c e n t r i f u g e to extract their honey

[bastlynn]

Vegans coming after beekeepers is one of my major teeth grinding annoyances. For many reasons, because there’s so many lies. And to go one step further because it’s such a waste. You see, the strongest vegan argument is that they don’t want to exploit animals or take from them without their consent.

… but… Bees consent. NO. I’M NOT KIDDING.

How? Bee hives aren’t kept on leashes. They’re outside, the bees can travel miles every day. They follow their queen. Who is also outside, not on a leash, and can travel miles every day. If she doesn’t like the hive for any reason - for example: it got too hot, too cold, too messy, too filled with sugary stuff and they need more space… then the queen leaves. And with her the hive.

The queen stays in the hive because the hive is the best place to live. Period. Done. End of. If the hive is staying with the beekeeper it’s because the keeper is doing their job correctly and keeping them happy because the bees can, and do, leave bad beekeepers.

Of all the animals we have domesticated as livestock, bees are the ones you can most easily argue are consenting participants in their keeping.

[alicentsgf]

[mystical-mew]

Here it is. The bee post is back

[korrasera]

I feel compelled to explain the misconception part for anyone who doesn’t know anything about beekeeping and finds any of this confusing. This might be a little redundant, but I’m scratching an itch.

Harvesting honey does not murder bees.

The device pictured above does not mash up bees or their hives.

There’s no ethical concern when it comes to eating honey, it’s totally ethical as food is concerned.

Bees manufacture honey using pollen. They store it in the cells of their hive, where it’s used as food for the colony, particularly the larvae growing into the next generation of bees.

When you harvest honey, you remove parts of the hive that are being used to store the honey, without taking any bees along for the ride. Those parts of the hive are then put into a device, like the centrifugal extractor shown above by gemstone-gynoid, where the parts are spun really fast to pull extract the honey. The honey gets collected on the walls of the extractor, drips down, and can then be filtered and bottled for human use.

So.

It turns out that bees love making honey and can make more of it than they’d ever need. It also turns out that beekeepers taking care of hives and harvesting their honey keeps bees healthy and thriving, more so than they’d normally accomplish on their own. And we really need bees healthy and thriving because they help us grow an astonishing amount of food by pollinating plants.

Like, there’s no need to have a conversation about this, anyone who claims that harvesting honey requires that you kill bees is lying. Either they don’t know anything about beekeeping and are just repeating a lie someone else told them, or they know that they’re lying and they’re just straight up trying to deceive people. Neither is a good look.

[stormingchaos12]

mmmmm yes my favorite chicken nugget condiment

m a s h e d b e e

[the-haiku-bot]

mmmmm

yes my favorite chicken

nugget condiment

Beep boop! I look for accidental haiku posts. Sometimes I mess up.

[mad-not-disappointed]

“women are often held to a higher standard than men and villanized for the smallest things” and “we shouldn't be acting like women are inherently incapable of doing harm” are two statements that can and should coexist.

[noahnomore]

[clauonacloud-deactivated2022071]

[latinajedi]

[gay-jesus-probably]

YOU GET THE FUCK BACK HERE AND EXPLAIN THAT RIGHT NOW

[riluri]

well damn

[ospreyonthemoon]

[letslipthehounds]

Every time, I know what's coming, but every time, I just lose it at "Uh. That"

[viperzerofsx]

Madoka Magica is a modern Buddhist folktale

With the new film coming soon I was going to talk about one of the most neglected aspects of Madoka Magica in the English fandom. It’s very explicit use of Buddhism which is often discussed by Japanese critics.

The show is Buddhist in two primary ways

The wish system is based on the first two Noble truths

Madoka is the story of a young girl choosing to become a Bodhisattva, specifically Madoka’s story is a retelling of the popular Buddhist figure Kannon in a modern setting.

Both of these are done in a way that would be very obvious to a Japanese audience. While the show has a reputation in the west as dark or subversive I’m going to argue that it’s not out of line with common Buddhist themes.

(As a note, There is controversy that “suffering” is too strong a translation but since the show uses despair I’ll keep it.)

First the wish system and Despair. Though many see the show as dark and nihilistic, in Buddhism suffering is considered an inevitable and unavoidable part of life. Suffering is inherent in Buddhism because we desire and cling to things but nothing is permanent, everything is in a state of mutual dependence and change flowing forever.

We might achieve happiness, success, our goals but these are temporary. We age, we lose the people we love, the world we are born into changes around us, our relationships change. Even in minor ways the happiness of achieving what we want is not permanent. Consider any major goals you have accomplished in your lives, was that happiness itself totally permanent and unchanging and enough to carry you through for the rest of your life? Notably in Goethe's Faust, Mephistopheles offer’s Faust only one perfect moment for his soul.

So while the discourse has always been on if the wishes were selfish or not the real issue is that no wish other than those that threaten the wish system could ever work.

Sayaka wishes to help her childhood friend and crush. She thinks she’ll never regret the wish until she discovers the true cost. Hitomi and Kyosuke start a relationship none the wiser to what Sayaka has done and she can do nothing as her lifelong friends move on from her. She tries to throw herself into the magical girl role only to find out the people she protects are sometimes unsavory. Sayaka was attached to a naive view of the world that changed while she bore the cost.

Kyoko wished people would attend her fathers ministry to help her family. For a time this worked but her father discovered magic was involved and she lost everything in a night.

Mami wished to live after a car accident, she was left alive but lonely and without a family. This loneliness was so deep and crushing when she was given the chance to no longer bear it she became careless, got herself killed and dragged her friends into her dark world.

In the other timelines Madoka wished to save someone else. In every single one she was either killed or fell into despair when the threat was eliminated but the costs were made clear.

All the wishes provided real happiness to the wisher but when that wore off and the cost remained the girls either fell into despair or were left alone to fend for themselves. Only Homera’s wish and Madoka’s final wish, wishes that threatened the system, avoided this.

When despair becomes too great a magical girl dies and is reborn as a witch. Witches have motifs based on the magical girl's thoughts, a death echoing some Buddhist beliefs . While these witches share continuity with their magical girls they cannot be reached even by people they knew in life, in line with Buddhist rebirth. Becoming a witch is like being reborn into a hell realm of which there is no going back.

Now it’s necessary to compare Madoka to Kannon.

Kannon is a Bodhisattva and extremely popular in Japan. Bodhisattva is someone who can achieve enlightenment but vows to forgo it to help all sapient beings achieve it.

Her Chinese counterpart Guanyin is described as a woman in white robes like ultimate Madoka.

To become a Bodhisattva one must have good karma from many lifetimes. Homura provides this as Madoka’s kindness inspires Homura to loop time over and over again. Kyubey explicitly confirms that Madoka is the center of Karma of many timelines.

Kannon saw the suffering of different beings and released her good Karma to either purify a hell realm or create a pure land for those suffering to go and achieve enlightenment. Madoka uses her karma to create a mysterious realm for magical girls she rescues.

Kannon is said to rescue those who are in their last moments who cry out for her help and save them from a negative rebirth. Madoka rescues magical girls in their last moments before they can become a witch.

Both Kannon and Madoka cleanse the Karma of those they help.

Kannon works tirelessly for others' salvation, Madoka assures magical girls that she is always fighting for them.

Madoka has a similar origin to Kannon and other Buddhist figures in general terms. She is relatively sheltered and privileged, unaware of the full extent of the suffering of the world. She still however suffers and has little sense of worth but great compassion for others. She wants to help but is ineffective until enlightenment.

Madoka after rescuing all magical girls past present and future achieves Nirvana. She describes Ego death with her consciousness spreading through the cosmos.

edit: corrected error

[agonizingdespair]

There are a few issues with this interpretation since that's not exactly how The Law Of Cycles works (the mysterious land she takes them to is canonically just a stasis she puts them in, equivalent most closely in my eyes to the Judaic idea of Sheol. And Madoka never experiences ego death, she is canonically still very aware in there and still experiencing suffering, as she does miss her human life, and in fact she is absorbing the despair from everyone else until it manifests as Kriemhild Gretchen and she kills it though it later hides in Homura's shield. Also her work is never finished and even in the wraith timeline she is still absorbing the despair of others, so she will be suffering forever until Homura intervenes in Rebellion), but other than that this is spot on.

I personally see Madokami's cosmic role as (much like PMMM itself is a mix of different philosophies, stories, religions, ideologies, and existential themes) analogous to a mix of different religious figures:

Kannon (above post)

Jesus (sacrifices herself to take on all the suffering from everyone else who is dying, to save their souls, and in so doing becomes fully divine)

any number of psychopomps from various different religions (appears when people die to help ensure they properly move on). Unsure which specific one fits best though.

It's a fascinating mix to be honest. In PMMM suffering cannot be destroyed, only transferred, so in order for Madoka to take on a Bodhisattva role, she has to essentially redirect the suffering created by their bad karma onto herself.

[agonizingdespair]

Ever since seeing and reblogging this post:

https://www.tumblr.com/greatmothsukk/741859673192398848/homura-in-the-1996-era-pokemon-style?source=share

I'd been thinking about what teams each version of Homura would have, and then from there, what each version of each member of the (expanded) Holy quintet would have. I finished my list just today.

I made it with these restrictions mostly to make things harder for myself:

Max of 1 Legendary/Mythical/Ultra Beast per team.

No repeats unless it's across multiple instances of the same character.

Fully evolved only.

6 each.

No teams for witch forms.

The list I came up with was:

Homura: Absol, Celebi, Klinklang, Inteleon, Electrode, Turtonator.

Glasses Homura: Absol, Celebi, Klinklang,  Electrode, Turtonator,  Indeedee (male).

Bow Homura: Decidueye, Magearna, Bisharp, Corviknight, Banette, Drifblim.

Devil Homura: Giratina, Bisharp, Salazzle, Corviknight, Banette, Dusknoir.

Madoka: Jirachi, Blissey, Delcatty, Audino, Minior, Wigglytuff.

Ultimate Madoka: Arceus, Togekiss, Blissey, Sylveon, Mega Audino, Gardevoir.

Kyoko: Alolan Marowak, Delphox, Rapidash, Scrafty, Pangoro, Snorlax.

Sayaka: Aegislash, Primarina, Sirfetch'd,  Samurott, Gallade, Palafin.

Mami: Polteageist, Mimikyu, Arcanine, Kangaskhan, Venusaur, Bellossom.

Holy Mami: Nidoqueen, Mega Alakazam, Vileplume, Parasect, Nihilego, Mismagius.

Nagisa: Alcremie (lemon cream), Slurpuff, Vanilluxe, Candeloro, Morpeko, Guzzlord.

Mabayu: Mega Scizor, Xatu, Kecleon, Beheeyem, Slowking, Indeedee (female).

Yuma: Plusle, Minun, Victini, Leafeon, Meowstic (male), Bewear.

I may do more in the future, and maybe also make some cool graphics for them. I saw someone else made a post like that, which is what gave me the motivation to finally add Yuma's last 3 pokemon so I could finally stop procrastinating and post this.

My choice to give Homura Celebi over Dialga when both work equally well for different reasons was because of the post that inspired me to do this.

[lazysshoebox]

Priestess Homura and her goddess Madoka where Homura thinks the devil is trying to tempt her whenever Madoka speaks to her because "well why would the goddess pick somebody like ME to interact with?" Which Madoka finds both endearing and very annoying

It does lead to Homura over sharing a lot of things she would never tell anyone otherwise

M: hi hi it's me again

H: ah yes you're here today as well, would you quit your ruse by now?

M: I told you a hundred times already...ah well, you'll know the truth when you get to heaven ^^

H: I'm not going there

M: what

H: my thoughts are sinful, whenever I see the depictions of the goddess I cannot think straight, I put myself on her level, imagine acts that surely are blasphemy, so when the time for my judgement comes I will surely be cast into the flaming hells

M: ...so like, what type of sinful are we talking about?

[lazysshoebox]

M *twirling her hair*: and then she said she was thinking about me a lot...

S:yes, I know, you made me take watch of the world

M, not listening: I just wish she'd believe me :(

S: maybe if you did it in churches instead of when she's on chores—

M: but then there'd be so many people around us! I don't want to make her into a weirdo who talks to air :(((((

S: she can whisper

M:but people can still hear us talking, I don't want that :((((((

S: then give up

[agonizingdespair]

Extra angst variant: the one time she does give in and believe her it turns out it is actually that universes version of Wraith Madoka, completely shattering Homura's ability to trust the real one about it.

[lazysshoebox]

Light weight drunk buddies Oriko and Homura who can't stand each other when they're sober and can't figure out why since they get along so good while drunk

[himehomu-deactivated20260524]

With Walpurgisnacht Rising coming in 2024, I want to talk about something that has been bothering me since Rebellion. It was never the “plot twist” of Homura separating Madoka from her godhood nor her taking those godlike powers for herself thus becoming the devil. It was always people's reactions to Homura doing this and the way they based her entire character around this specific moment that really rubbed me the wrong way. Saying she's a selfish monster who's trapping Madoka in a fake world for her own personal gain or that she's taking Madoka's agency away from her and making decisions for her that directly rebel against what Madoka wants... And, to that, I just want to know.... do literally any of you know what Madoka actually wants or are you just basing her character around her sacrifice?

Yes, it was for the benefit of all Magical Girls and yes it freed them from their cycle of selling their souls in the name of hope just to die at the hands of their own grief and despair, but Madoka didn't plan to abruptly cease to exist at the cost of it?? She didn't want to be stuck between life and death only existing as a deity meant to eradicate Witches for all of time. Madoka wished to erase Witches before they are born from the past, present, and future. Going back years upon years in time, destroying Witches and mercy killing Magical Girls; fighting forever, past and future, for all time. Ceasing to exist as an individual, only able to materialize and interact with someone when they're dying of grief and sadness and pain; relieving them of that pain so that their last moments won't be in agony, so they can die in peace, but there's none of that for Madoka. There's no death, no closure, no release, no freedom from this hell of being a weapon and nothing more.

But, Madoka would never voice these struggles and frustrations. Because Madoka isn't that kind of girl. She's the kind of girl who shoves all of her problems down and bases all of her self worth on how much she can do for others, how happy she can make others, and how useful she can be. She forces a smile and masks her pain because she doesn't want to burden anyone with her problems. She puts herself down constantly, risking her life trying to help others because she cares so little for herself. Without being useful, she believes her life has no value. And Homura knows this. Because Homura knows her. I feel like most people take Madoka's bright pink colors and smile at face value and don't realize she's chronically depressed. That's why in the first timeline, she and Homura naturally got along so well: they were both girls who hated themselves and based their self worth on how they made others around them feel, both self-loathing girls who deem themselves worthless if they're not useful in some way. Madoka was just better at hiding it than Homura was. And she still is by the 100th loop.

But, in Rebellion, when her memories of being a god are taken away from her, and she's given a hypothetical scenario of her fate, she says "wow that sounds awful and scary and lonely and I would never do something like that." The Flower Field scene is one of the most brilliant and misunderstood scenes in all of anime. Majority still to this day argue that, since Madoka doesn't have her memories, her words hold little to no weight, and Homura is simply hearing what she wants to hear. So, naturally, they disregard what Madoka is saying, assuming it's just Homura being selfish. And that's where they mess up. Because, the fact that Madoka doesn't have her memories here is the whole point! Homura is already well-aware that if Madoka had her memories, her self loathing would result in her caring so little for herself that she sacrifices herself every time which is why immediately after Madoka's words, she assures Madoka that she is indeed "strong enough to make that decision." Homura just wanted to confirm if Madoka would still miss her life pre-godhood in spite of that, which she outright says she does.

There are also arguments that Homura was somehow influencing Madoka in the labyrinth aside from just not remembering becoming a god, but Shinbou already stated in an interview that this wasn't the case, and that these were Madoka's honest words. In fact, Madoka's true feelings regarding her godhood are revealed for the first time within the lyrics of Madoka's character song (sung by her VA Aoi Yuuki) that played as the ep 1-2 ED titled “Mata Ashita”. The song is about Madoka post-series which consists of Madoka wandering around aimlessly, quietly observing as humanity resumes without her, lamenting on the life she lost after becoming a god and wishing she could have been more honest about her feelings to Homura in ep 12, asking her to realize she's lonely.

[I'm pretending that I'm used to being alone, but I'm not really that strong.

The scenery is the same as always, the city is the same as always.

Even though I think everything will stay unchanged.

I still feel like I'm the only one who's tiny. Instead of "See you later."

I should've said, "I'll stay for a little longer."

I wanted and hoped that you would realize it.

But with the words "See you later,"

I lie to myself again.

And hide my true feelings beneath my usual smile. Saying, "See you later," I wave my hand.

Cracking a smile, yet I'm feeling lonely.

The truth is, I still have more to talk about.

But even my voice saying, "See you later"

is so near yet far from you that it can't reach you.

So let me say this like I always do, just once more: "See you tomorrow"]

This is definitive proof that even BEFORE Rebellion, this was already confirmed to be Madoka's true feelings.

The second time Madoka's true feelings post-godhood are adressed is via Madoka and Homura's concept movie quotes explaining that the God (Madoka) is clearly suffering in her “heaven”, which is more like a prison of isolation. The lizard girl (Homura) takes pity on her and separates her humanity from her godhood, thus making her human once more. Here are also some direct quotes from Magia Record which provides even more context for what Madokami is experiencing:

All of this, with the addition of Madoka's words in the Flower Field scene being confirmed to be her real and honest feelings, puts the whole “pulling madokami down from heaven” scene into a different perspective. Considering the entire reason why Madoka even became powerful enough to become God in the first place was because Homura's 100+ time loops linked multiple parallel universes together with Madoka at their center, and it's confirmed Madoka was suffering as a god, I would think people would be happy to see Homura reverting Madoka back to a human being and rewriting the entire universe to be a world where Madoka is happy and free, surrounded by her friends and family???

The fact that Homura's love for Madoka was so strong throughout 12 years of 100+ time loops, it turned Madoka into a goddess but when Homura was able to see just how isolating and lonely godhood was for her, she took her godlike powers for herself because she loved her and was willing to take on the exhaustion and isolation of immortality as the devil to spare her of anymore pain and sadness. Homura freed Madoka from a nonexistential purgatory prison and a decade later she's still demonized for it, how insane is that??

[cultofquinn666]

this is insanely good. i feel it interprets the situation perfectly.

of course homura has her own issues and flaws, but her reasons for ripping madoka down were not entirely for her own self gain. of course she wanted madoka back, but she knew that being madokami was never what madoka truly wanted; but being madokami gave madoka 'purpose' as she wanted, so she would never complain aloud.

homura's self demonizing in calling herself a devil is to justify her own self hatred. to call her selfish is almost exactly what homura wants.

(my words are a little jumbled, sorry)

[biggesthomuradefender]

ngl it’s very funny to me that sm ppl were quick to assume that the words madoka spoke during the flower field are insignificant bc she was a “fake” created by homura, or being “influenced/controlled” by her in some way, when neither of those things are true, and those words were madoka’s genuine feelings.

and yes, she doesn’t have her memories, but even so… do ppl rly think that madoka would rly just… be completely okay and satisfied w becoming a god, leaving behind all of her family and friends forever, and being forgotten by all except for homura (plus, she’s only able to be remembered by the magica quartet when they literally DIE, hence in sayaka’s and bebe’s case.)? like, you guys rly don’t think she would have any reasonable, human regrets…?

really??? 😭

[lazulizodiac]

Memories are a tricky thing in Madoka Magica. It’s almost impossible to fully erase a memory, and more often than not memories that cease to exist or are overwritten in some way end up bleeding over, especially when they’re stronger or important in some way.

Literally the first scene of the series is madoka having a dream of a memory from a past timeline, and then later in the series (episode 8 I believe) she gets the *feeling* of a memory from a previous timeline while talking to Homura. After Madoka sacrifices herself her family can still… feel the emotional imprint of her memories. Madoka’s mom says that she feels nostalgic remembering the name “Madoka” while her brother seems to remember her in more of a conceptual sense, more or less as an imaginary friend.

In Wraith Arc, we see that Homura’s memory manipulation is not an all powerful magic that completely rewrites them, and if you try hard enough you can find the frayed edges and unravel the entire thing. The entirety of Wraith Arc is just a retroactive setup for Rebellion though so it doesn’t exactly state much we can’t already find in Rebellion.

Speaking of, Rebellion is defined by how it handles the concept of memories. The inciting incident for the entire downward spiral the rest of the movie embodies is Homura *feeling* like her memories are wrong even if at the time she literally doesn’t know for sure or how. Piece by piece throughout the entire movie characters remember more and more about themselves, their traumas, and the world they live in. For Homura, it’s remembering Witches, Labyrinths, and her traumas. For Mami it’s remembering the Wraiths and the true battles they fought. For Kyoko it’s having a dream of a memory of Sayaka dying.

All of them are shaped by these memories, emotions, experiences, and traumas even if they are nothing more than confusing dreams and vague feelings. This all culminates with Madoka herself remembering the *feeling* of being the Law of Cycles at the end of Rebellion. Even in Homura’s perfect little world, even it Madoka can’t actually remember anything, she can still feel it.

All of this to say, I don’t believe for a second that in Rebellion Madoka was “reset to how she was in episode 1”. She has the confidence that being a magical girl was shown to help her develop in earlier timelines. When she sits with Homura in the flower field before the 2nd Nightmare fight she talks about how she feels like getting to sit down and talk with her is something she’s wanted forever. Even though she could not remember her duty as a god and the sacrifice she made, I don’t believe the experience was completely scrubbed away from the words she spoke.

We don’t have to twist ourselves into knots trying to explain how these could be Madoka’s feelings if she doesn’t have her memories because we are shown time and time again that is doesn’t matter if you have you memories or not. The emotions she felt were real, and in that instant without the memories of her duty and godhood she let herself speak them freely.

[biggesthomuradefender]

damn.. you wrote this so well and just so beautifully, i swear 😭

i completely agree w and love all of this and more !!!!

[biggesthomuradefender]

ngl i rly don't understand how someone can watch the main series and rebellion and then walk away w the belief that homura is a "bad" person.

[sydneysdumbtrainthoughts]

I'm legitimately curious if some of Homura's critics recognize her use as a literary object - not her role in the story, but what her purpose is in telling the audience about the world. Cause if I was a writer, and I wanted to give my audience a reference point for what the stressors acting on my characters could do, Mami, Sayaka, Kyoko, and Homura each can give the audience A LOT of info about those stressors, and in different ways.

Mami's death exists to establish risk in the series, as well as how being 110% morally upstanding places a strain on you that others don't face. Mami's constant lack of resources is a direct result of her morals overstretching her.

Sayaka's death shows how quick of a slippery slope it is to lose hope; how believing yourself to be required to be an idealized paragon of good like, say, Superman, is an impossible goal, and will kill you faster. You have to let yourself be imperfect in order to continue to have hope.

Kyoko's death shows off what sacrifices need to be made to save others. Without her death, both Homura and Madoka would've died, but instead Kyoko gave them a chance to live.

And lastly, Homura. Homura is the embodiment of what it takes to live. By the final episode of the series, she's really more just surviving than living anymore, but every compromise she makes, every bad thing she does, every cold and callous thing she says - that's what hanging on requires.

Narratively, Homura HAS to exist, in order to contrast with the other 3, because without that contrast, the viewer has no frame of reference for the true stakes of the story. Sure, Mami established risk early, but Homura? Homura exists to give you the much more subtle stakes - how much of your humanity are you willing to give up in order to continue? I genuinely believe Homura is a good person in a terrible situation, but narratively, she is the character who's there to tell you what everyone has to give up to continue on.

As to the events of Rebellion? Look at what Homura does. She replaces Madoka as a god, but more to the point, I'd argue that she saves Madoka's life, both from the suffering and pain of taking on all of the suffering of the magical girls, and from the exploitation the incubators were going to subject her to.

As a character who is meant to be a hero, Homura FULLY lives up to that title in that moment. Saving the day requires saving Madoka, and saving Madoka demands a sacrifice - and Homura is that sacrifice. Rebellion, I think, serves to show exactly who Homura is: someone who is both willing to make the sacrifices necessary to survive herself, and strong enough to decide that her own survival must be secondary to the big picture. Homura has no plan as god any more than Madoka did - they both had a problem they needed to solve in front of them, and a single, crappy tool to solve that problem.

Oh, and this is to say nothing of Homura's role as a way to see what Madoka hides, but that's gonna take too long to explain, and I have a bus to catch.