This rant brought to you by Star Wars: The Force Awakens (featuring Rey, the lady scavenger-pilot-mechanic-Jedi of my heart) and also years of simmering resentment.
I think the most depressing thing about the Mary Sue phenomenon is that it arose from a largely-female based fandom and is thus a really unpleasant reminder of how much sexism women internalize
and internalized any kind of -ism is just about as depressing as it gets
…I’ve absolutely never felt this way? Seriously, have you guys read some of the fic that’s out there? And have you ever heard the term ‘Gary Stu’? Mary Sues are obviously going to be a prominent phenomenon because of the number of young, inexperienced female fanfiction authors, who haven’t learned to write balanced characters (which I would argue is largely because of their lack of representation in ORIGINAL CANON DAMMIT), but there are also plenty of Gary Stus out there (cringe), and there are good number of well-written, balanced OCs as well.
From what I’ve seen, Mary Sues and Gary Stus are usually OCs who have bad writing (bad characterization, introduction, and such) who take a dangerous amount of attention away from already-known characters, or are fantasy-based (as in, for example, a ‘popular girl’ fantasy or a ‘male power’ fantasy) self-inserts who often destabilize any kind of plot or previously known characterization of canon characters. (Which is not to say you can’t have a fic with an OC main character, be they male or female; just don’t make them dull or predictable. Give them choices - hard ones! Let them be problematic at times! Let them experience love, betrayal, conflict, difficulty! Nothing is ever easy, for a good protagonist, and good protagonists can rarely make it on their own.)
Additionally - last I knew (correct me if I’m wrong) ‘Mary Sue’ and ‘Gary Stu’ were supposed to be fanfiction terms? Obviously you wouldn’t use them for canon; that’s not what they’re meant for. You can have overpowered, unbalanced protagonists in canon writing, but that’s just plain bad writing or bad characterization.
So, no, Rey isn’t a Mary Sue, and anyone who says so is a) misusing the term, in my opinion, and b) entitled to their own opinion, but should compare Rey to Luke in ANH and re-evaluate their statement.
I can’t believe we’ve gotten to the point where this many people think the term “Mary Sue” is misogynistic.
Despite the fact that “Gary Stu” exists.
Despite the fact it has everything to do with writing quality and character building and nothing to do with gender.
You people are reaching too far and too hard to find something that just isn’t there.
The term “Mary Sue” originating from a female-based fandom does not confirm “internalized misogyny”, it destroys your fucking argument by showing that the term was and continues to be a critique on poor writing, and that it has absolutely nothing to do with shaming female characters. It was started because there was a slew of poorly written, special snowflake characters that made most fanfiction uninteresting at best and cringe-worthy at worst. There are OP male characters, there are OP female characters. The Fanfic community has called out both using “Mary Sue” and “Gary Stu”
Maybe you guys should learn to take some fucking criticism.
Mary Sues and Gary Stus are there in original works as well. Bella Swan and Wesley Crusher anyone?
I feel like the world is rolling away from sanity
Ah yes That disgusting catchall “internalized sexism”
Yes because everything in the universe is out to “police” women. No it’s literally not shut the fuck up. I’m so sick of this fucking bullshit. It’s not. Always. About. You.
I’m going to actually agree with OP somewhat.
There is a tendency in fandoms to label a female character a mary sue for no reason and bash female characters and female fanmade characters for asinine reasons. And it is usually female fans that do it.
Is it sexism? Maybe. Is it a problem? Yes, and I think a one. And I’ve been seeing a lot of people calling Rey a mary sue when they wouldn’t call a male character that is just as powerful and skilled as her a gary stu.
And people don’t even use the term Gary Stu as often either.
So maybe we should actually consider what beckytext is saying. Fans do bash female characters for ridiculous reasons.
Star Wars is, without exaggeration, the most popular sci-fi franchise in human history. Of course there are going to people who don’t like Rey and think she’s a Mary Sue. I happen to disagree with them, but that doesn’t make the criticisms inherently misogynist.
I’d like to point you to, oh, Avengers. Black Widow is a beautiful, intelligent, talented, lethal spy…who also has serious guilt issues over her dark past, is probably the most physically fragile of the team, and never got a chance to really grow up. My headcanon is that the reason she went all “notice me Sempai!” in Age of Ultron is because, well, she’s messed up. She goes after the guy she cannot actually have a fulfilling relationship with, as he repeatedly points out. She was trained to seduce men, not to date ‘em. Nothing about her behavior was healthy.
People don’t use the term Gary Stu as often because most fanfic is written by girls, and that’s where the term originated and is primarily used.
We don’t actually have a male character who’s just as good as Rey, so you’re trying to support your argument that the Fans Who Cry Sue are sexist based on a hypothetical scenario…which assumes they’re sexist.
Becky isn’t just saying that fans bash female characters for ridiculous reasons. She’s saying that all of the complaints about Mary Sues are examples of sexism. Stop trying to backpedal.
It’s also ironic, really, that OP complains that the term Mary Sue makes imaginary people afraid of writing female characters. One, if you can’t take criticism, you can’t grow as a writer. Two, it’s been argued that similar criticism from feminists also disincentivise the creation of female and minority characters. For Pete’s sake, Black Widow discussing her sterilization with the guy she was interested in got Joss Whedon hounded off of Twitter. Wanna talk about an issue that affects lots of women? Nope, can’t do that, you’re placing women’s worth on their reproductive ability. Even though this is a response to Bruce pointing out that he can’t have kids, and none of the other female characters in the film are known to have kids.
And finally, notice how Becky doesn’t even pretend to discuss the flaws in the definition or idea itself. Only the supposed effects of the term. Yes, a Sue is a type of female protagonist, but that doesn’t make the character good, and that’s a stupid reason to support one.
While I was driving back from seeing the film with a few friends, the term was thrown around when discussing Rey in the same scenario I’m assuming it’s used by in most discussions of her: the fact that with no explanation, and with basically zero training, she is able to competently use The Force. Even characters like Anakin, who was supposedly the most powerful Jedi, and Luke needed a large amount of training with Jedi to be able to effectively use The Force. Hell, it took Luke a movie and a half to actually get into connection with The Force.
I’m assuming they’ll try to explain it as “She’s related to someone who was a Jedi” or some excuse that won’t hold up, even in-universe. It honestly seemed like they just wanted to give people a kick-ass female Jedi even though we already had some badass ones in the EU (which I’m still angry that they made non-cannon, especially because Leia becomes a full-fledged Jedi in them, and the idea of Kylo was obviously taken from the EU). It doesn’t help that Kylo, who she beat with her sudden Force powered second wind, was a whiny pussy who was a pathetic excuse for a Sith, and a much worse Sith than Darth Caedus, which was the EU character he was inspired by. I don’t think she’s a true Mary Sue, as her character is actually pretty good, but her ability to use The Force does seem very strange.
