hello all i am back for more lore talking bc i was talking to my friend my buddy and i think i figured out how this stupid fucking story works
so like, it's been irking me since city walls dropped, how does the cycle actually work? because as i've discussed i am 100% confident we only follow one clancy throughout the story, from hds through city walls, and there is plenty of allusion to it not being as simple as just like, straight up reincarnation.
so walk with me here. the only people we can safely say are aware of the overarching cycle are nico (as a former clancy), keons (definitely a former bandito, i do not subscribe to the former torchbearer theory but it's a possibility!), torchbearer, and clancy post-voldsøy. everybody else seems to not be aware of the cycle, or at least the full scope of it.
we also know that dema is not as old as it's presented as. and i've talked about that before, but i like to be thorough, so to recap: clancy outright says this, lmfao, in i am clancy ("...an old city. well, they say it's old, there's just no proof.") PLUS, it's alluded to in some of the fpe letters, including one from a dema citizen to a bandito talks about how he, as a librarian, has access to ancient vialist texts and that the history put forth by the bishops is not entirely accurate.
moreover, we know the bishops must be aware of voldsøy/the neds, because they have (presumably just the one) pair of antlers, yet they specifically leave it off maps of trench and hide its existence from dema citizens. this is intentional to keep the source of seizing a secret, and keep the true nature of it hidden from the citizens.
now, we know keons arranged for clancy and torch to arrive on voldsøy as seen in the background ned's cozy fireplace, and based on how he acts in the outside music video, we can safely assume torch is definitely not new to the island. and after clancy's arrival on the island, meeting the neds, and receiving the power to seize, he seems to be very much aware of the overarching cycle. that's when we get i am clancy, and its mentions of the cycle, that's when we get his "still alive" message, and when we get his letters about taking power back; like clancy has very much changed his outlook after this, because he is starting to understand the full scope.
there is also the running theme of being "asleep". clancy describes his past in dema as him being asleep, and says that citizens are all kept that way. not to mention "we've been here the whole time. you were asleep. time to wake up" and "i'll tape my eyes so i don't fall asleep again", plus clancy's numerous mentions of being unable to go back to sleep now that he's been outside the walls. i think one of the meanings here is that of understanding how this cycle works.
because of seizing being specifically an ancient "miracle", and the mysterious nature of both voldsøy and the neds, i think knowing about seizing explains that there is more going on, and possessing the power like clancy/the bishops allows for a deeper understanding.
of what, you may ask? so that's the thing that has been irking me, and the best way to for me to articulate it is via hadestown. again.
i've said on here before that because i think tyler is always clancy and josh is always torch, there has to be a time loop of sorts at play, and i think it functions the same as hadestown does.
so you probably know this but as said i'm thorough, but in hadestown, after orpheus turns around, the song "road to hell (reprise)" is sung, and at the end, orpheus and eurydice see each other once again the same way they do at the very beginning, immediately setting up the next performance. you also probably know that city walls ends with the heavydirtysoul siren, and that torch looks like he's waking up at the beginning of that video.
i think clancy becoming a bishop is our orpheus turning moment, and our "road to hell (reprise)" is the banditos taking the other bishops' places and torch leaving ("that's not clancy up there anymore" exchange). in place of orpheus and eurydice seeing each other again, we instead get the loop beginning anew via the hds siren, and rather than seeing each other, clancy and torch instead begin to search for each other again ("can you find me? (can you find me?)")
this allows for time to pass as well, obv nico/the bishops have aged by the time we catch up. i also personally think seizing probably ages you, i think such a power would drain you to use for years on end, like surely there is some kind of tradeoff like that? but regardless, time passes between a cycle ending and us catching up with it. it's a supernatural world i do think a bit of aging can be somewhat handwaved especially when the timeline of events is THIS incomprehensible.
no matter if you believe tyler and josh are always clancy and torch, clancy and torch are always the same at their core the same way orpheus and eurydice are the same even as their actors change between performances.
for the record, i do think clancy and torch are always tyler and josh. while we identify with the characters as titles, which tyler said was their intention, josh and tyler will never be apart of a cycle without the other.
(aside: the reason i don't subscribe to the "keons is a past torchbearer" theory is because i think it is antithetical to the character of torchbearer. torchbearer will never become another party in the story. the same way orpheus turns, the same way hermes must watch the story play out, torchbearer will never take the bishop robe when it is offered. that being said, it's a fun idea! just not one that i think should be canon)
the last thing i'll add is that i think this idea helps us to understand why torch walks out of the tower. we know he wouldn't give up on clancy, that's like his whole character motivation, and i think his awareness of the cycle plays into why he walks away. he knows he will find clancy again, it's why he's calling back to him in drag path. but it's still not easy, which we can clearly see in city walls, and even i am torchbearer. this is the most doomed cycle that has ever doomed or cycled and yet there is still hope caught up in it all ugh