In case you were wondering what the LG“B” Alliance has been up to lately, the following paragraph was printed in their 2023 conference programme, within a piece written by Julie Burchill.
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@bibubbline
In case you were wondering what the LG“B” Alliance has been up to lately, the following paragraph was printed in their 2023 conference programme, within a piece written by Julie Burchill.
On the topic of bihet
Bihet refers to...
...a bisexual woman actively dating men
... the category of women who are either bisexual or straight
... bisexual women in general (not necessarily straight women)
...any woman who's dated a man, even if they now identify as lesbian
Please explain in a reblog. Also adding your orientation or relationship to the word is encouraged.
Christ almighty, who cares what lesbians have to say on this topic? You're not bisexual, you have no insight into bisexual experiences, and you have nothing valuable or compelling to add or accomplish here.
yeah i'm not responding to this poll. bisexual women please resist the urge to justify yourself/your orientation or to politicise it or explain it in depth and detail with your dating history attached. there is no need 🙏🏽
its "a woman isn't defined by her relationships and its misogynistic to say or imply so" until it comes to bisexual women. then there needs to be a marker attached to our sexuality to denote arbitrary lines of division between us that heterosexuals don't even honor or recognize. to the straight community, ALL bisexual women are "available to men" and permanently consenting. no attempt to distance yourself as a bisexual woman from that stereotyping via the usage of some nonsense tumblr-made microlabels (febfem, bihet, etc) will change that.
I’m seeing some discourse about how female rapists are generally not violent and I’m just going to say that there is no such thing as a non violent rapist because rape is inherently an act of violence, even when it statutory
This is so annoying bc the way you Work On social anxiety is literally by putting yourself in social situations even if you’re bad at them. Of course it’s understandable to be hurt or annoyed by people with poor social skills but we do unfortunately live in society and you’ll survive someone not making eye contact or struggling to hold a conversation or whatever behavior you think is so unspeakably rude that people who exhibit it should never leave their houses
"I hate when bi w--" *shoots you 27 times in the chest*
It’s not a non-bisexual’s place to tell us what words we can and cannot use to describe our lived experiences. The pure arrogance of these people is incredible, holy shit.
Right? The trend reminds me of how my abusive ex used to control how I thought/communicated his abusive tendencies to him and others - 'you can't talk like/about this, someone once mistreated me by talking like/about this.'
society if non-bisexuals shut up about bisexuality
“It’s an important conversation even if it came from people who aren’t bisexual.”
1. It’s really not. Nobody chooses their sexual attraction or who they fall in love with and sitting around talking about who has ~options~ is irrelevant to feminism. It literally does not matter who is dating who or who *can* date who because activism is not done on our backs. If you’re not talking from a feminist lens then it’s especially irrelevant because someone else’s dating life regardless of sexuality is none of your business. What are y’all, in middle school?
2. Bisexuals, we need to be meaner about our boundaries: it actually isn’t okay for non-bisexuals to be discussing and debating our lives (primarily our sex lives because that’s all they seem to care about) precisely because they aren’t bisexual. It’s none of their business and they will never know what it’s like to be bisexual so they can have nothing of value to add. We as bisexuals are perfectly capable of having these conversations amongst ourselves and no outside input is needed. It’s not appropriate for us to discuss or debate the dating lives of lesbians or straight women and the reverse is not okay either. Everyone learn to be mature and mind your own business and bisexuals I’m *begging* y’all to have some some self-respect.
Maslows, if you don’t want to publish this it’s cool because it might rustle some jimmies but I’m about sick of these people so I had to say something lol
I agree.
I'm disappointed that 'radical feminists' abandon their desire to engage in material analysis the moment it comes to bisexual women; suddenly, dating is activism, and our praxis is wrong.
imagine calling yourself a feminist but you couldn't even work at a battered womens shelter because you'd be telling the women they shouldn't have dated men in the first place be smarter next time dickrider
people will really have blogs where every second post is about how much they hate bisexuals and how bisexuality is inherently wrong and then be like now why would anyone think theres prejudice against bisexuals
Bffr most of us here are NOT doing any real activism and that goes for the stone cold separatists who don't care about your feelings as well. "Get out of the way" OF WHAT?
Oh god no not the regular feminists who are interested in radical feminist ideas and theory. The horror. 10 of them just burst into my house and set my anti porn stickers on fire because they really just want to get in the way of radical feminist action any way they can
no response from menalez on your post I see. these people that insist it's "just" homophobia never get angry about discrimination against bi people. they don't get angry when people like that imdb quisling downplay and mock your abuse. they don't get angry when people say bisexuals aren't oppressed. they dont get angry when ppl call us dick riders or harass us or treat our abuse like a joke. they may disagree but its a mild thing for them, way more respectable than being some whiny bi rape victim. they dont get angry at the ppol that call us dick worshipers and say we're inventing our abuse to weaponize it. they dont treat it at all with the same anger or urgency they treat other homophobia then they tell us there's no difference. they just don't think our abuse matter and us stupid bisexual rape meat need to shut up and let them handle it.
she probably just didn't see it I think her blog probably gets a million notifications. idk her exact stance so I'm not gonna say anything about her specifically. she can clarify if she wants, but tbh was my response was food for thought for other bisexuals mainly, not her specifically.
Anyway. Like I said in my response I understand being annoyed by how some people use the term biphobia, but I do find how dismissive ppl are about understanding bisexual experiences really frustrating. We are told all the time that bisexuals do not have the same experiences as homosexuals (very very true), but if we say that bisexuals also have some unique experiences that deserve analysis and discussion suddenly lots of people have a meltdown? ridiculous. The message seems to be that if we're assaulted or abused, our voices and POV have nothing to offer about the nature of homophobia and in fact the right thing to do is to shut up so that the "Real" targets of homophobia can drive the narrative. Which yeah I just inherently disagree with that and see it as dismissive against bisexual victims. Biphobia plays a part in both the initial incidents and how people respond to it. It's not evil of us to notice.
And overall anon I agree a lot of people treat it exactly like that or I wouldn't get half the anons I get. And what's worse, I do actually think a lot of the examples that these people ignore ARE legit horrible instances of homophobia. Like how is being mocking and dismissive about SSA people being assaulted or abused by heterosexuals for their sexuality not homophobia in and of itself? Yet for some reason (cough) nobody recognizes it as that, if anything in many corners it somehow "proves" devotion against homophobia to minimize and mock such things if it happened to a bisexual. Nobody seems to think it's much of a problem certainly.
So yeah, overall agree with your frustration anon. but tbh I'd rather start with bisexuals who treat others like that too because it's them that share the burden to our community.
I also wanna add that the problem about biphobia only being used in stupid cases is partly perpetuated by people opposed to the term. Because they raise hell whenever someone is saying something stupid and amplify the reach of that x30000 fold through outrage... but when people are telling us our rapists should have killed us or whatever and bisexuals aren't oppressed or that were playing the victim if we speak up about SA... it's crickets or defensiveness. If you cared about backing up bi victims of abuse I think you would find a use for it.
Bisexual women MUST and DESERVE TO
💕Accept their sexuality
💜Embrace their sexuality
💙Love their sexuality
💜Bond with other bi women and build community
💕Create knowledge and understanding of bisexuality
💜Support each other
💙Make personal choices freely about who they date
💕💜💙 Be PROUD
patrick star it's not my wallet meme but it's just "class-based oppression exists" "yes" "oppression is based on material class and not how an individual is perceived" "yes" "for example trans men who pass as men socially are still oppressed for being female" "yes" "because oppression manifests as more than surface discrimination" "yes" "therefore even straight-passing bisexual people are oppressed for being bisexual" "NO you can't be oppressed for being straight!!!!"
genuinely we need to legitimize the term biphobia bc i'm going insane watching ppl try to talk about the oppression bi people face with only homophobia in their vocabulary like someone trying to make jewelry with a miter saw
i am a bisexual woman, i am married to another woman, and i say that because i am asking this in genuine good faith: materially, when is biphobia ever not misdirected homophobia? and how can you define the concept of biphobia without relying on the concerning idea that, somehow, a person can be oppressed for being opposite sex attracted?
in a later reply you mention statistics about bisexual women struggling with high rates of substance abuse and mental illness. how can we say this the result of either external biphobia acted upon these women rather than misdirected homophobia, or internalized biphobia rather than internalized homophobia? biphobia is a conceptually challenging framework to deploy because it depends upon the extremely specific mechanism of “you are biased against me because i like both men and women” which is a tough thing to prove in a heterosexist society.
arguing that a bisexual experiences bigotry due to both their same sex attraction and their capacity to experience attraction to the opposite sex is, to me, like arguing that there is a version of misogynoir for white women. that a white woman could experience bigotry due to both being white and a woman in the same way a black woman experiences hatred for being both black and a woman. that conceptually doesn’t make sense because there isn’t systemic oppression against white people like there is against both black people and women right? so, again, how can biphobia ever be a unique form of oppression that isn’t simply misdirected or internalized homophobia without having to imply that, under some circumstances, being opposite sex attracted is an axis of oppression?
i think this is why so many bisexual women on this very website are uncomfortable with talking about biphobia. and i’m not an idiot, i know some men and lesbians are quite cruel about bisexual women. but lesbians are allowed to not want us in their spaces, as they are an extremely marginalized group with inner and material experiences that are vastly different from our own. we do have enormous, yes, privilege over lesbians because of our capacity to feel opposite sex attraction and “pass” in straight society. and men hate us because they’re misogynists and they’re homophobic.
again, i’m very curious as to why other bisexual women see biphobia as a valid axis of oppression. i’ve asked my women’s and gender studies colleagues about it, and their explanations boil down to: biphobia encompasses the idea that being opposite sex attracted is repulsive if you are also attracted to the same sex because we live in a society that prefers binaries and demonizes anything outside of the binary. for them, bisexuality and “genderqueer” performances are equally reviled due to the abject state of living outside a dichotomy. which i just do not … believe … because in a patriarchal, white supremacist, and misogynistic society such as ours everything can be traced back to a root material hatred for women, for black and brown people, and for homosexuality.
FWIW I'm a bi man not a bi woman, but as the OP didn't specify this was just about bi women I'll give my two cents -
I will say that I don't think Biphobia is its own axis of oppression, but rather a sub-type of homophobia, and moreover a useful way to talk about the way homophobia manifests for bi people. Similar to how lesbophobia is used to talk about how homophobia manifests for lesbians. Not an entirely new thing, but still a specific set of experiences that deserve care and specificity. I'll also say that not all oppression bisexuals face due to sexuality is automatically biphobia. Much like with lesbophobia, sometimes general homophobia is more applicable to a certain event or discussion. But I do think the various statistics of bi ppl prove that something is going on, otherwise many of them wouldn't be higher than they are for heterosexual people and homosexual people. Things like certain states arguing bisexuality is not protected by anti-discrimination laws since it's not a sex-linked trait, or certain countries explicitly not allowing bisexuals to benefit from refugee policies, also do speak to increasing systemic-as-in-legally-distinct biphobia.
As a note I have to say I find it frustrating that you are challenging this by posing this as a 'material' issue initially, but you immediately fall to talking about how you find biphobia 'conceptually' challenging and focusing on the implications of rhetoric. So let's at least acknowledge that this isn't a discussion about the 'material' circumstances but rather a semantic one on how we want to interpret those material issues. Because we can look at the statistics and see bisexuals are very much affected based on the astoundingly high rates of IPV, sexual abuse, homelessness, poverty, and negative mental health outcomes. And I don't say this to single you out because plenty of people do this too. If we can't as a community grapple with how to explain it - that's fine, and I'd even argue it's reasonable because we just lack research and data to have the full story - but then let's not pretend that it's a question of material effect. The material effects of oppression are clearly there and looking more and more concerning with every new study that comes out. If we were talking about Biblongies, Hetrons, and Kwirkiwarks and you saw Biblongies experienced sexual assault, mental illness, and poverty at the highest rates among the three, you'd be like shit I don't know who or what a Biblongie is but materially they sure are in a bad spot.
For the sake of anyone misinterpreting my words now or in the future, I will again clarify I do not think homosexuals do or can oppress bisexuals, nor do I think the concept of biphobia implies as such. Nor does acknowledging some concerning statistics mean bisexuals are "more" oppressed - but why should we be ignoring materially relevant statistics? If that's what the reality reflects it should not be some misstep to acknowledge them and talk about how SOME facets of homophobia affect bisexuals in keen and worrying ways and we can talk about how that is what biphobia is. This does not take away from the also observable and measurable horrors of being exclusively same-sex attracted.
I think we need to stop making race comparisons when trying to talk about sexuality because they never work and often end up being insensitive, but comparing biphobia to "anti-white racism" really falls flat at any level. White people are not oppressed due to their race at all. Bisexual people ARE oppressed to their sexuality. Bisexuals are not oppressed because of their other-sex attraction, but despite of it. It doesn't even work within your own comparison if you look at the preceding sentence because even in your comparison, bisexuals would not be white - heterosexuals would be.
materially, when is biphobia ever not misdirected homophobia?
Regardless of anything else, I want to know how homophobic acts are 'misdirected'? Why are we supposed to pretend or act like they were actually meant to be directed at someone else or at different circumstances? I have to tell you I find it very offensive that bisexuals can't be trusted to speak about how their abuse was something that zeroed in on them specifically. The woman that tried to groom me and ended up sexually assaulting me very much knew she was going after a bi boy not a gay boy and that's specifically what made her single me out due to her own biphobic beliefs. Plenty of bi women have also spoken out about how bisexuality itself was something that spurred men to abuse them due to similar viewpoints. So to your question of 'how can we know it's not just homophobia' well, because sometimes it's obvious to the victims when it happens. The same way we can listen to any group about how their oppression manifests maybe we can listen to bisexuals and extend some trust and understanding, instead of dismissing their experiences as just useless 'misdirected' events that are not worth examining in their own actual context.
I absolutely hate the implication that the abuse we lived through is "misdirected" and we're in some way grander way not the REAL victims of our own situations but an unfortunate and ultimately irrelevant accident. Even when it's not specific biphobia but general homophobia it is not 'misdirected'.
1. please never tell a black or brown woman to “not” use race as a point of comparison. i will most definitely use race as a point of comparison because it is relevant when discussing systems of oppression.
2. if you felt i “dropped” the material aspect, fine. let me pick it back up: biphobia is difficult to prove as a material reality in that, as you admitted, it is often impossible differentiate enacted biphobia from homophobia. so at most it is phenomenologically and experientially relevant to certain individual bisexuals. but it is not a compelling axis of material analysis especially because most bisexuals are het-partnered and therefore do not have experience even misdirected homophobia.
3. speaking of: it is misdirected homophobia because you’re not a gay man, you’re a bisexual man. this isn’t hard to understand, it’s a matter of perception versus reality. there are documented cases of hate crimes where the victim was perceived to be part of a group they’re not and attacked for it; that is where this language of “misdirected ___” comes from. it isn’t a value judgment on your abuse, dude. it’s disturbing to me that you’re so keen on insisting you’ve experienced both biphobia and homophobia, as if you’re somehow … more … marginalized than gay men are? bisexuals are completely obsessed with framing themselves as the ultimate victims of heterosexist hegemony and that really comes across particularly terribly. so i frankly don’t care if you were “triggered”, you’re being a whiny little pedant.
if you felt i “dropped” the material aspect, fine. let me pick it back up: biphobia is difficult to prove as a material reality in that, as you admitted, it is often impossible differentiate enacted biphobia from homophobia. so at most it is phenomenologically and experientially relevant to certain individual bisexuals. but it is not a compelling axis of material analysis especially because most bisexuals are het-partnered and therefore do not have experience even misdirected homophobia.
You literally didn't pick it back up, you went back to discussing your interpretation as fact. Things like IPV and SA rates being so much higher for bi women are definitely indicative even het-partnered bi women do experience homophobia/biphobia, else they would not be higher than het women's. You just seem keen on dismissing these experiences because you seem to think they ought to be politically irrelevant based on your agenda.
How can you see a group be victimized in all these variety of ways and just say it's not worth analyzing? Like those statistics are signs that the material differences are THERE. They're right there, you just don't care about them. That's you putting the cart before the horse due to your own perception of what can be treated as important.
it’s disturbing to me that you’re so keen on insisting you’ve experienced both biphobia and homophobia, as if you’re somehow … more … marginalized than gay men are?
Literally from my post: "Nor does acknowledging some concerning statistics mean bisexuals are "more" oppressed" + "This does not take away from the also observable and measurable horrors of being exclusively same-sex attracted."
I may experience biphobia but I do not experience all aspects of homophobia, so no it does not add up to "more oppressed". It's that simple. If you're going to put words in my mouth at least try and see I haven't literally said the opposite already.
it isn’t a value judgment on your abuse, dude.
bisexuals are completely obsessed with framing themselves as the ultimate victims of heterosexist hegemony and that really comes across particularly terribly. so i frankly don’t care if you were “triggered”, you’re being a whiny little pedant.
I can't believe these were separated by like one sentence. It's not a value judgment, but somehow in these discussion it always ends up that any bisexuals that don't want their abuse treated as a political irrelevance or an accident alien to their own circumstances are nothing more than whiny histrionics playing the victim.
It's also so ironic you say "it’s a matter of perception versus reality" when you're literally imposing YOUR perception that all abuse against bisexuals happens only because they're entirely mistaken for homosexuals, and any bisexual that says otherwise is lying. if you cared to listen to other bisexuals there are also many cases where we know that was not the case, but that seems beyond hope now.
In all your responses you opted to just attack me and frame bisexuals as whiny instead of engaging with anything I actually said so whatever clearly not going to be a productive discussion.