stop whitewashing mister lord please
Leave my gremlin alone! Y’all are gonna hate me perchance, lol, but while I appreciate spawn and AA lovers alike I really prefer we appreciate Astarion’s character for what it is. I don’t need all the characters I love to be perfect shining examples of morality, and this guy ain’t. He exhibits trauma responses and patterns that many people live their whole lives with, and no one is saying he can’t change at all. I’ll go ahead and cover: no one is saying he doesn’t love you, that he can’t have some form of fulfilling relationship, etc.—but he ends up a very different character than spawn and I don’t like it when people babygirlify AA for player wish fulfillment.
There are pros and cons to this choice that should stay intact.
I’ve been seeing people talking about creating a more “immersive” ascended Astarion romance mod. One where he won’t force you to become his spawn. One where he won’t say this line to you when he turns you.
I feel like if you want to change his romance lines you don’t respect his characterization much ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but I find people often don’t, I suppose.
To be clear, I’m not trying to dunk on anyone specifically. This is part of a larger trend I see with people insisting that he would never treat their character the way that he acts in the game, and I just don’t like it. Obviously people can head canon whatever they want, but I really struggle with narratives that run counter to the game’s characterization personally so I will be analyzing why these choices are core aspects of the character that I don’t agree with changing because I have autism.
Let me get something out of the way—I find Ascended Astarion to be interesting, from a story telling perspective. He breaks my heart a little, and he makes me mad, haha, but I can absolutely see that it’s still him. He’s still a character I care deeply about. Those parts of him were always there—in some ways, he even resembles act 1 Astarion more than the spawn ending version, in their shared values. I don’t agree with people who say that “nothing of the Astarion we knew survives,” but he is different than spawn. He’s theatrical; he suppresses all vulnerability in favor of demonstrative power seeking and wish fulfillment. He got everything he wanted, and he wants you to know that.
He insists he’s happy with what he made of himself. Sometimes he can even believe that. He’s Not Traumatized, actually, he’s having a great time! In some ways, I believe him. The world yearns to kneel and offer their necks, after all, and he has the power now. But he’s still frightened and in need of reassurance from Tav/Durge, and he’ll never relinquish control to the extent that would allow him to heal fully. It's so obvious, the moment he is threatened in any way.
HAVING SAID THAT. This man absolutely will demand that you tie yourself to him irrevocably. That is who he is. He lives in fear of being abandoned. He’s holding on with his claws and his teeth. Like, congrats you found a loophole that you can go fight the brain directly after completing his quest and not giving his arc closure, I guess, go off—but I’m wholeheartedly opposed to the concept because I find it fundamentally counter to his whole thing and I am a whore for story.
Ascended Astarion needs Tav/Durge desperately, and craves control and certainty to the degree that he cannot abide a relationship where he does not have some degree of Power Over. He simply doesn’t trust you’ll stay unless he holds the leash. Maybe in time he can learn, but I find it doubtful.
Just look at how he treats Karlach, when he realizes he can’t turn her into his spawn.
Without control, he often turns mean and scared. (Which is kind of why people saying ascension is the only way he can be free makes me wheeze—this desperate clawing for control is the opposite of true freedom in my mind, sunlight or no.)
This version of Astarion and my durge Nerys would never work. They had in common that they lived desperately fighting against the chain around their neck, and now he seeks to replace it with his own.*
And that is fine—I can understand that there are different types of characters out there for whom this arrangement would be preferable to losing him, or even a relief. There are so many awful fates one can end up with in the forgotten realms. Surely being kept on a long leash by someone who grants you everlasting life is better than some...(like your soul becoming a brick in Kelemvor’s faithless wall? Good grief. Probably better to be tied to a guy that negs you every once in awhile if you live in luxury, I guess.)
Some characters crave someone to control them, someone to keep them safe (because if you do what he wants, he absolutely does do that, I think. It’s only when you consistently contest his wishes that you see how nasty he can get). I don’t really see how so many boss bitch resist durge and drow baddies end up kneeling for this man—seems kinda counter to the character arc—but I digress 😂 (not all of them as I am about to demonstrate, but certainly seems counter to some of their characterization as presented.)
My point is THERE ARE CHARACTERS FOR WHOM THIS RELATIONSHIP MAKES NARRATIVE SENSE. That’s fine. My embrace durge Ciaran was one such character, in fact. He was used to obeying, and wasn’t particularly threatened by the theatrics. He liked the power play.
unfortunately it didn’t end up particularly well for them when that drive to obey the call of his blood turned out to be stronger than the one tethering him to his lover.
ANYWAY. If you grant Ascended Astarion that control over you and you’re “wonderfully obedient,” he grants you a fairly long leash and plenty of treats! No argument there. As long as he thinks that you will continue to be his beloved pet and never leave him, he’s fairly content with his lot.
If your character is “wonderfully obedient,” I’m not discounting they could be happy! Maybe you failed an insight check. Maybe it’s exactly what you want. There are a lot of reasons a person might like to be controlled. It can feel like caretaking for some. It can help relax a restless mind that is certain they will make all the wrong choices.
If you’re not obedient…good luck. He won’t let you break up with him. Again, perhaps you’re leaning into the dom/sub of it all and you’re okay with that, or maybe you like the angst! Sometimes I do. I have a weakness for AA/spawn Gale, which subsists on the preexisting characteristics of someone who in some ways likes to be used, to worship his partner. I’m not judging you for the relationship dynamics, I just prefer they be rooted in the character and that we don’t pretend this dynamic doesn’t exist!
ANYWAY. As for “own your body, kill your mind,” well. If you succeed the insight check, you find out that he believes you to be degrading yourself if you accept his offer. This makes sense; becoming a spawn degraded him. It’s unsurprising he thinks this way, especially at this point, even if it makes you uncomfortable to hear it. He might be able to see this differently in the future, but he only just got free.
Even if he doesn’t do to you what Cazador did to him (and tbh I don’t think he would ever go that far personally, although the game does seem invested in calling him Cazador 2.0), you are becoming less than an equal to him, and that is absolutely an intentional part of the choice in the text, no question. Many people in real world and fictional relationships make choices like this all the time—prioritizing someone else over themselves, or making sacrifices for love. Stop trying to mod out good storytelling!
Deep down, Ascended Astarion doesn’t have a high opinion of his own self worth, either, and without the healing arc that will be challenging to shift. As it probably should be, for someone who condemned 7,000 souls of spawn just like him to the Hells. By staying with him, bowing for him, you become less than him, and that’s critical to his sense of self. He needs to be more than to feel loved and safe. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you, in his way. But it’s the only way he knows how to love, in this version, and let’s not pretend this is an easy breezy uncomplicated kind of love. Or that this man will ever be able to experience the full range of intimacy with a partner. I’d argue that sex largely stays what it was to him in this route—a means to an end. A tool to exercise power over, if an entertaining one.
A means to mutual pleasure, surely, but not the kind of soul baring exercise it can be when the concept of power is stripped away entirely. Compare the spawn romance scene—this is kind of a CORE DIFFERENCE!
(shout out to @adrielmancy for filling in the gaps in my screenshots here—the mvp as usual)
tl;dr I understand the urge to restore cut content, make hugs longer, give players a second romance scene with Minthara….all well and good. But I fundamentally disagree with cutting dialogue you don’t like in ways that drastically change the game’s characterization, and I’d argue that these are pretty significant.
...and ultimately, if you want a sweet kitten?
…He's right there waiting for you. A little less grand, perhaps, but all the stronger for forsaking the path of least resistance and accepting himself as he is. It feels like some people are doing a lot of mental gymnastics to justify avoidance of his “weakness” in the spawn ending. (I could write a whole other post on that concept 😅)
*a side note about my OC, Nerys, and Ascended Astarion
In Nerys’ one and only AU, Nerys refuses to help Astarion ascend. Gale steps in and helps his companion instead—they share that ambition for power, after all—and they separate. Can’t bear to kill him, but can’t bear to see him much, either. Her self destructive tendencies and longing result in them sleeping together a few more times, but it only causes her more heartache.
It’s a ghost wearing her lover’s face, and it’s almost enough to drive her from the Gate all together if it weren’t for Karlach. Eventually she spends longer and longer periods of time away, and it’s possible Astarion’s schemes get him staked by adventurers with more black and white morals while she’s gone. His erratic approach to planning and strategy and his power hunger tell me he probably won’t live forever 💀 at least not without some really powerful allies backing him, but maybe he’ll surprise me.
