— Frankenstein (2025, Dir. Guillermo Del Toro)

❣ Chile in a Photography ❣
Doug Jones

#extradirty

Origami Around
Misplaced Lens Cap
Xuebing Du
noise dept.
macklin celebrini has autism
ojovivo

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Jar Jar Binks Fan Club

if i look back, i am lost
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Sweet Seals For You, Always

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@grunge-samurai
— Frankenstein (2025, Dir. Guillermo Del Toro)
Photos of Kowloon Walled City by Greg Girard. From his book City of Darkness Revisited.
(⍟)
Old person from 1996 here. Can confirm, I'm tired.
I made a post before the new The Ghost in the Shell anime aired, that discussed these two scenes early in the manga:
The one where the major is talking to the runaway boy at the orphanage-
-and the scene where Batou is talking to the two captive girls at the robot factory
and I talked about how jarring it was to see how unsympathetic, dismissive and outright victim blamey they were towards literal children being enslaved and abused
Like that is some wildly shitty shit to say to a fucking WAR ORPHAN you watched being starved and tortured, btw, at a fucking government funded and sanctioned child labor sweat shop
and I suspect it had to be really hard to for Science Saru to try to tone down Makoto's callousness in this scene in order for her to still be seen as "a good guy", at least to our modern day sensibilities and morality. You can tell they really tried to make it light in tone as they fucking rushed to get it over with as quickly is possible:
notice how in the anime the kid doesn't talk back, doesn't argue with her, doesn't try to explain/defend himself like in the manga
This child (who lost his entire life in a war before he was brought here, no doubt, without any say in the matter) wants to get away from this horrible place, but what does our hero see when she looks at this kid?
She sees a foreigner who's gonna grow up to be a burden on the japanese people
that dialog sounds a lot to me like the racist ableist dad cult from Night in the Woods:
"No orphan boy, our country took you in and now you're gonna earn your fucking keep for that! If you were on the streets you'd just end up on welfare, watching bad tv all day and never work, just like all the other damn immigrants! So the misery factory you stay until the state decides otherwise!"
and Science Saru knew damn well that if they included that kid stumbling to explain that, "no lady please i just can't take it here anymore! its living hell! i'll do anything just not like this anymore please please just get me out of here" that the tone for the rest of the anime would be rancid
...cos what kind of "we're the good guys stopping all the crimes and crime mans that do the crimes to the civilians" protagonists can a modern audience accept when those main characters (that've been precented to us as non-corrupt law enforcement) turn around and throw children under the bus, all while openly resenting them as they do so?
(also i gotta stop and say: yes i know the manga makes the child factory a little less awful at the end with that last panel where it looks like the kids are more in charge of the factory, but it still looks like they don't get to just fucking leave)
Then theres today's episode's scene with Batou and the two girls:
"IT WAS VERY IRRESPONSIBLE OF YOU TO RESORT TO SABOTAGING THESE ROBOTS SO PEOPLE WOULD CHECK THEM AND FIND THE SOS WRITTEN INSIDE AND COME SAVE YOU FROM HAVING YOUR BRAINS SLOWLY ERASED"
oh man where do i begin with manga Batou here
i want you to take note of his speech bubble here while he yells at these fucking kids:
not soft and rounded, jaggy
pointy
angry
look at his damn body language, he is shouting at them, he is not being gentle. he is pissed. he's berating these two desperate underage girls for doing what was probably the only thing they could possibly do to reach the outside world for help and he is not showing a single shred of pity or understanding
now lets look at what the anime did with Batou and the girls:
the entire tone of the scene is completely diffirent
first off, they visibly aged down the girls to look less like sexy teens...
...and more like middle schoolers, with childish mannerisms and childish sounding VAs to boot
and then theres Batou, notice how in the anime he cuts their ropes but in the manga they're the ones untying it while he stands back and just watches?
See how in the anime he kneels down so he can look them in the eyes as he speaks and also look less intimidating?
hear how he's speaking sternly but gently about what their SOS robot scheme has done to innocent (mostly) people? he sounds like a frustrated teacher reprimanding his students
kind, gentle, understanding but also upset about the situation that these two have caused
they (Science Saru) sanded this scene down so smooth and i gotta applaud them for it, cos when i first read the og manga for the first time and saw this scene after having read the part with the major and the orphan? it really put bleach in my enjoyment of the characters for the rest of the chapters, i still liked them and the story but it really drove home that they were in this for the thrills and the money, civilians be darned
If I had been in charge of this production I would have damn well done the same with these writing changes because this is first and foremost a fun action story with one toe in the comedy puddle and you don't want the vibes to be off with this sorta thang cos its not the 1995 movie or Stand Alone Complex where everyone is cold and distant and thus it would be more palatable to audiences if they behaved more callously
*edit* throwing in that yes, I know Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence exists, and that its entire plot revolves around the Robot Rondo chapter
for clarifications sake: I've watched both Mamoru Oshii films, watched all of Stand Alone Complex, and own the current definitive edition of the og manga, read Man-Machine Interface and Human-Error Processor (half paid attention to the newer animes but i can only watch them try to recapture the vibes of Stand Alone Complex or the 1995/2004 movies over and over again so many times, thats why the new adaptation is such a breath of fresh air)
@premiumscrunglo you made a good observation about Makoto I hadn't considered:
she's clearly had a ton of experience before joining section 9, she's definitely been through her fair share of "oh no the children". I can understand that her empathy on that front being worn down untill she's completely indifferent, cos damn theres always some darn kids being trafficked or exploited and its not her damn job to rush in and swoop them all away to a better life
from that point of view I get it, and yeah she's probably seen a lot of refugees granted asylum end up on Japan's welfare system and "not earning their handouts" in her eyes. In the manga she's always trawling through the most seedy and lowest levels of society, so she's seen more of the lowest of the low then your average civie and has a pretty big bias because of it
if we got more context, this is sort of thing I'd love as character background flavoring, its the kind of thing that makes the character more well rounded and interesting. but Masamune Shirow didn't want this to be a story about the characters(as in they're the main focus), he wanted it to be a cool future cop action story first and foremost
We know nothing about any of the members of Section 9 (aside from Togusa has a family and Batou used to be in the army), we only get to experience what we see happening with them in "real time"
And thats perfect for what this manga was back when it was first being published in the 80s, it makes for a fun "pick up and put down" read since the og manga's chapters came out once every 3 months. Back then you didn't want to alienate anyone picking up a random issue and not having any idea who or what is wat, its just "BLAM BLAM CYBER CRIMES WOWEEEE also heres a bunch of fun science lingo!"
honestly thats what i took from that scene as well, he really comes off as "dammit you selfish brats, look at all the fucking trouble you've made for everyone!"
it rubs up against our idea of him as a thrill loving goofy goober, but as @iondream rightly said in this reply:
"Load bearing flaws" is a term we should all be adding to our vocabularies
it should frustrate the reader/viewer (like it did me) that the people who are supposed to be "helping" the innocent can also be shitty people, because we see that all the damn time irl and its somthing we have to constantly grapple with and rotate in our heads
its frustrating when a piece of media that seems on its face like a slightly goofy sci-fi action story with fun characters suddenly blindsides you with "whoa what the actual fuck thats not cool" moments, because a lot of people have a hard time with the-
"if i like these characters that do bad things, then i am also a bad person, just a bad as them!!!"
-thing, since more and more lately we hold up the media we're fans of as literal parts of our identity and morality
you can enjoy the wacky bisexual cyborg cop even if she has contempt for those she considers drains on the system who should pull themselves up by their bootstraps-
-because you don't think that, and you know thats fucking bs actually (i hope)
but then on the other hand, as somone who's constantly studying how audiences react to characters and stories in media, and has seen years of ugly backlash against characters and creators over the smallest character speed bumps (some which don't even exist in the media, the collective fandom just decided that because of x that must mean that y has/is happening AND HOW DARE YOU), I understand Science Saru's minor alterations completely
They want to be as loyal and accurate to the og manga as they possibly can, every shot and scene aligning with the panels as closely as possible. But they also want to stay true to the vibe of the og manga, which is the polar opposite of the Mamoru Oshii movies and the various anime spin offs, which all are no haha and very boohoo (they take themselves seriously i mean)
and i think they made good choices (so far) with the edits, trading a little bit of negativity that made these characters more complicated for the sake of keeping the lighter tone going
i say this also because in modern day story telling, we've been conditioned to expect that sort of thing to be addressed one way or another, once its introduced into the story. but the og manga does not stop to dwell on why its characters act the way they do, it just keeps chugging on, and this too can leave viewers rankled from absence of an explanation for a character's actions
@deathofink you brought up somthing i meant to but forgot to also add, the "written in the late 80s" layer of this media analysis cake
dead ass end of the 80s, that was a time in japan of fucking economic success/decadence the likes that country and few other countries had seen
it was a very different political and social climate, at the start of the 80s in japan unemployment was like 4.9%! jobs were everywhere and if you were on welfare or poor in that economy, then the problem clearly had to be on your end
also this was the era in both east and west of intense copaganda
(just pointing out because, but yes i love all those movies but i can love a movie and also be aware of how it is subliminally trying to *intent of the director or not* proper-gander me)
(ok this isn't the video i wanted to put here, the one i wanted talks about copaganda starting up in the 70s with Dirty Harry and up to modern day with shows like Brooklyn Nine-Nine, but i can't find the dang thing so this is the best i can find that relates to the post right now)
OK SO
back then (the 80s) there wasn't the naked open hostility towards cops that our current social climate holds, it was more "Hey everyone! cops are just good guys doing their jobs to get those darn crime havers! sometimes they gotta say aw heck with it ;) to the lawyers and do a widdle human rights violation. But dooooon't worry, its only to the bad bad ones who don't deserve rights like you and me!"
so thats somthing to keep in your back pocket when you watch the rest of this series
Excellent points and an excellent read.
This was a looong read but still worth it nevertheless. Any cyberpunk fan should take the time to read thisz
I'm fucking CACKLING what is this LMAOOO
Ah, Taira... You're so relatable to all of us self-conscious, self-deprecating dudes that used to be ugly losers, somehow had a glow-up and started getting more attention because of it, but still remained losers
We (yes WE) ALL got misty-eyed with this scene
To everyone who's curious about the reference:
From the movie Léon: The Professional
Daria (1997-2002)
Ac Milan against Fiorentina (1996) // Pietà by William-Adolphe Bouguereau (1876)
come on spain! make messi cry!
YESSS
Final Fantasy 6
Guys, don't let ANY Argentinian fool you into thinking that they aren't the most racist country in latam. That's one of the many examples. ALL of them are racists. they learn that in school. It takes anything for them to imitate a monkey towards a brasilian or any person of color.
dont let them fool you
seeing a video of a national park makes me so genuinely ANGRY over what our world has become. We used to be so beautiful. What happened to us?
@isuggestrevolution
We can nourish new trees with the blood and bodies of all who have wronged us.
this is my suggestion