imo the way you feel about groups it's fully socially acceptable to hate (like children or polyamorous people, among others) is the canary in the coal mine for underlying bigoted beliefs. if you're only supportive of marginalized groups when it's cool to do so, probably you don't actually care about marginalized groups, you care about other people thinking you care
Posting wasp propaganda because my ass is seething yo!
Update! Edited background to be lighter for better legibility, usually use grey backgrounds for artwork and forgor that it probably wouldn’t be great to read!
its kind of distressing how you can tell a lot of people see popular indie artists and writers and such as like "a Celebrity but one which i stand a half decent chance of bullying to death"
I do not agree with veganism as a moral standard. If it is your personal moral stance, that is fine. If you think humans eating meat is inherently immoral, I don’t want to deal with you, you’re hopeless. Vegan ideology behaves more like a sect of evangelical Christianity than a dietary choice.
Veganism is better for the environment, but claiming that it's a morally superior choice ignores cultural and economic factors that make people eat animal products.
It is not inherently better for the environment. That is the thing. When you begin trying to explain that local, sustainably sourced animal protein is better for the environment than imported plant proteins that are farmed 3,500 miles away using slave labor, they start tuning you out. Down is better for the environment than polyester stuffing, leather is better for the environment than pleather. We should work on making animal agricultural practices more sustainable instead of trying to shame everyone into eating plant products that are also farmed unethically and unsustainably.
These numbers *do* account for transport and processing, as well as land-use-change (read: burning forests for cattle pasture).
There is no plant product that even remotely comes close to the impact of meat. And the argument of "well plants are ALSO bad" is the same shitty argument against EVs that "the batteries are also harmful". Nuance doesn't nullify the good in things that make a positive change, and picking the lesser of two evils is a big part of morality.
There are an awful lot of comments so I'll put my response to a few below the cut.
"But local, small-farm meat isn't nearly as bad!"
Is that what you're eating?
"Having some animals is good for the soil, and promotes circular farming!"
Again, is that what you're eating, when you eat meat? The issue here is that the majority of meat is from industrial farms (kinda by definition). Reducing your consumption, reduces that kind of farming.
"Growing plants causes human suffering by exploiting workers"
Terrible news, so does meat.
"I literally can't eat [plant]..."
Great, don't. Sorry about your restricted diet, but some individual or even categorical exceptions shouldn't get in the way of general positive change.
On the flip side:
"This is like the Carbon Footprint, just shifting the onus onto the individual instead of changing the system"
We don't use cows for infrastructure or manufacturing, meat is a product for direct consumption. The only way to effectuate change is through collective action and education (why I'm even typing this).
"Well all of this doesn't make meat-eating inherently immortal"
Okay so what does that mean? In a vacuum, if every best practice is followed, *maybe* meat can be sustainable, but it currently isn't and we have so so far to go before that's a realistic solution.
I think what I'm pushing back on is the argument that we should "work on making animal agricultural practices more sustainable instead of trying to shame everyone into eating plant products."
Educating people on the impact of their behaviors doesn't prevent adopting sustainable practices. And it doesn't have to be shaming to the point of abstinence, just to bring the issue to awareness, so maybe every so often you pick chicken or tofu instead of steak.
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