I come to ask you a question, as you are the leading researcher in the field of puzzle lore, and also a scientist! (Once more: congratulations!)
Apologies if these thoughts seem a bit.... messy and much. Feel free to just ignore.
I am currently writing a little story/fanfiction that includes puzzles, and first I wanted to ask if it is okay with you if I use your theory for that.
You already said that Puzzles, or rather Hamanier Particles have the ability to allow time/space travel, and that they allow clairvoyant abilities.
Puzzles/Hamanier Particles seem to be already used to research time and space travel, as your theory says.
Could puzzles have even more possible "applications"?
Is the main reason why the Azran were so advanced that they fully understood how to "use" puzzles and their supernatural-seeming properties?
Do you think they could also be the cause of other weird happenings and traits humans, plants and animals have in the series?
Could puzzles possess living things too and change them?
Flora Reinhold has the mole in the shape of an apple, that only appears when she is happy/laughing.
That isn't really possible, but perhaps that is caused by some sort of puzzle possession?
Could this also be an explanation for the nonsenical dusguise abilities Don Paolo and Descole have, that they might partially be literal shapeshifters (or something in that direction?)
A shapeshifting-like thing could also explain how Don Paolos hair works, why it is able to move around and shape itself in ways normal hair shouldn't (LF, the scene where he got his horns
Do you think it is significant that in/around puzzle shacks, plant seem to grow in strange ways (there is almost always a tree around, often growing indoors), and that other plants such as the sunflower in LF being able to store/attract puzzles.
(i also find it strange how flowers grow underground, at the grave of Viola Reinhold. But that might not be caused by puzzles, I think at least)
Could puzzle possession be able to alter genes/bodies? (here it becomes apaarent that my biology knowledge is not advanced enough yet).
If they potentially create little "weird traits" such as Floras apple-shaped mole, or even shapeshifting, then they might have the potential to do even more.
The animal experiments in LF were probably meant to test the time travel-capabilities of Hamanier particles.
But apparently, the exposure to them was what caused Subject 3 to become so strangely human-like, apparently altering his body(?) and making him able to "walk".
This might go to far, but regarding Animals being experimented with and becoming strange/humanlike-
The dog from LMJ, Sherl, was also implied to have been experimented on in a lab, and that is why he got the ability to talk.
Another Hamanier Particle experiment, maybe?
So, maybe puzzle experiments are not very uncommon in the Layton-Universe.
And that was... it, I think.
I don't know enough about science (yet) to properly understand the implications that Puzzles might be experimented with/have the capability to change living beings and allow "supernatural"-seeming phenomena to happen.
So that is why I wished to ask someone who knows way more than me.
Apologies if it wasn't understandable.
Hi, thanks! And, wow, that's a big one indeed xD
A few disclaimers ahead of time:
The theory is still a work in progress, in the sense that I won't be 100% confident in its solidity before I'll have had time to confront it to basically the near-entirety of the lore in the game. Which, obviously, is going to take a lot of time and work. So while I do believe that the current state of the theory is rather reliable, at least as a headcanon, I cannot claim with confidence that a few details here and there won't change in the future due to my finding out something else in the games/novels/other that I didn't know or had forgotten about, and which contradicts part of the theory.
I believe you likely saw this post already, but I link it just in case. I had tried in that post to make the theory's assertions as clear as possible, but the wording in some of your questions makes me wonder whether there might have been a few confusions here or there. If you or anyone else have questions regarding a specific part of the theory and/or you're not completely sure what X or Y means, don't hesitate to ask me.
Now, on to your questions:
Is it okay if I use the puzzle theory for my own fanfictions/fanart/other?
To you, and to anyone else who will probably ask again sooner or later (you're not the first one haha): YES. The puzzle theory by itself is something that I was stupid/crazy enough to come up with, but since the evidence that led up to me thinking about it came directly from the official content, it doesn't feel to me like the theory really "belongs" to me! It's as if you had to pay royalties to Albert Einstein whenever you wanted to write E=mc². Kinda stupid if you ask me (and even stupider in my case because the puzzle theory isn't nearly as fundamental to the progress of humanity as real world science is).
Also what fun is there in finding a lore mechanic that is so wide, could have SO many applications and implications, inspire sooooo many fascinating storylines and AUs, only for me to then go "nah I'm the only fanfic author who's ever allowed to use it. Get screwed, fandom." For real, the reason I share this theory at all is because I WANT the fandom to know about it and have their own fun with it, if they decide that it's a toy box worth adding to their collection of headcanons!
If anything, credit is appreciated if you want your potential readers-who-are-also-writers to read about the puzzle theory in turn and get inspired to also write about it; but it is absolutely not required.
However, one thing that is required (not really but I would love if you could do it): please do send me the link of your fanfic once it is written and posted because I absolutely want to read it 👀
TL;DR: Yes, it is ok, and I want to see it. Go wild, and have fun!
Hamanier Particles have the ability to allow time/space travel, and they allow clairvoyant abilities. Puzzles/Hamanier Particles seem to be already used to research in time and space travel, as your theory says. Could puzzles have even more possible "applications"?
I believe that imagination is our sole limit! (like, literally, since Hamanier particles are basically what constitutes complex thoughts in the Laytonverse)
That, and more importantly the fact that what scientists within the Laytonverse truly know about how Hamanier particles work and how to harness their power has yet to be defined in detail. They have mechas, Descole's machines definitely use puzzle shenanigans, and Dimitri was able to build a pair of glasses which can record a person's memories (aka also related to Hamanier particles). But on the other hand, the average Layton NPC's daily life (Layton himself included) isn't using technology that is more advanced than our own, far on the contrary. It seems that whatever it is that humanity knows about puzzle physics at the time of the main six games, the ability to actually control Hamanier particles remains rather niche (and it seems like Steam Bison might actually give us quite a bit to think about, especially the part where, allegedly, "solving more puzzles will cause the city to evolve technologically").
It's a bit like how humanity has known that electricity existed for aeons (without necessarily understanding how it works), but that it took a while between the moment when the first inventions which were capable of generating/relied on electricity were built, and the moment when every house in the country required electricity for powering nearly everything. I believe the Laytonverse is sitting in that phase where a few scientists in isolated labs were able to find the means to control Hamanier particles, but that due to the costs, or because it's tricky to implement in terms of engineering, or for other reasons, the knowledge of how to control them is either not well-spread just yet, or people just aren't jumping on the hype train to use puzzle magic to power everything in their daily lives because they don't see the point (at least not yet. Once again, let's see how Steam Bison appears when we get to see it in its full glory).
So, applications for puzzles/Hamanier particles in a daily Layton NPC's life? Well, let's see...
First off, something which is kinda used in canon but would deserve to be expanded upon a lot more: using puzzles as basically weapons for delaying someone, like a smoke bomb of sorts (could be offensive, could be self-defence). The dialogue from Luke after you solved London Holiday's Puzzle #009 has him talk as if he just physically had a jog walking on bridges in a tropical archipelago, all the while (as far as we know) he did not leave the confines of Layton's office. So did the puzzle make him hallucinate that? Was Luke temporarily sucked into a pocket dimension until he solved the puzzle??
I'd personally go for the former since the Folsense gas is a thing (and this interpretation does not require to find proof that a) such pocket dimension exists, and b) find an explanation on how it works, where it is located, and how it was created. In short: hallucination wins over pocket dimension thanks to Ockham's Razor). At least some puzzles seem to thus have the ability to trap the person solving them into some sort of trance until they're solved, which depending on the circumstances, could put the person in a rather vulnerable position where they can't interact with their surroundings.
So, list of possible uses:
Weapon for trapping someone inside their own head until the puzzle is solved (no technology required, just fetch a feral puzzle and yeet it at the person's face like a poké ball). Arguably already used in canon, notably with Bishop or Plover in Azran Legacy, and probably in dozens of other cases. It can be of note that their response after the puzzles have been solved is often along the lines of "what the heck! how did you solve it that quickly???", which could be interpreted as some form of "wtf bro it's like if my smoke bomb only lasted two seconds how do you expect me to have the time to make any use of it"
Time travel/teleportation, the former of which we know has been attempted, with near success, only to have the project abandoned. It is more or less likely that the same could be said of the latter; though there is no time paradox to worry about, I do believe that the main mechanism is the exact same as for time travel: it's just that you don't want the other end of the vortex to be set in a different time. So, in short: a bunch of scientists managed to make it work, but as far as evidence shows, they're not to the point of being able to make it safe and practical for everyday use. I'd compare Dimitri's time machine to the real world LHC: humanity's top scientists can do it for science, but the world is absolutely not ready to popularise the technology and have every layman get to buy and play Candy Crush on their own toy LHC (for a number of reasons, and the one asking "How can you even play Candy Crush with a particle accelerator?" comes with the lowest priority).
Speaking of teleportation, it is however possible that some characters actually already use it to some extent...? I'm thinking notably of Granny Riddleton or Keats. Or... perhaps that's also why Pavel is never able to explain how he ends up in the most random places. In any case, I believe that those instances are caused not by Laytonverse steampunk technology, but rather because of these characters' clairvoyance, or because of wild puzzles being particularly feral and kidnapping them across time and space. Poor Pavel must have made a few of them very angry. Or he's psychic and doesn't know it.
There totally is some illegal hint coins trafficking going on in the suburbs of many towns and cities, where most of the buyers are students during the week before their finals.
Scotland Yard and other police forces have a branch dedicated to puzzle-related problems. My personal headcanon is that Colby may actually be stationed in the reception room and rarely ever allowed on the terrain because the times when he is allowed on the terrain, it's because it's an eldritch shenanigans level of puzzle issue.
Layton's trunk, which is capable of holding a whole fish tank (just kidding. probably.)
Is the main reason why the Azran were so advanced that they fully understood how to "use" puzzles and their supernatural-seeming properties?
Yes. In Azran Legacy, we have the following quote: "We were masters of technology and science. There was no puzzle we could not solve." Now, of course, it could be coincidence. I could be reading into it too much. But in the light of the puzzle theory... Why couldn't we take it literally? It's not like all this glowing shifting stuff (which is somewhat reminiscent of Descole's Detragigant anyway) wasn't screaming "arguably supernatural" anyway. Also the fact that they can resurrect the dead (no I will never let that one go).
More seriously, the Azran basically turned the Illusory Forest's Ancient Tree into an immortal clairvoyant cyborg who records knowledge about the entire world by using a network of plants worldwide in order to absorb what is basically brain juice (aka Hamanier particles). That thing alone revolves around using puzzle magic to acquire knowledge.
TL;DR: Yes. Definitely. Absolutely.
Could puzzles also be the cause of other weird happenings and traits that humans, plants and animals have in the series? Could puzzles possess living things too and change them?
Believe it or not, that is one of the questions that will either be raised in Stable Like Sand (my own fic) at some point, or has at least been written and will just end up in the pile of cut content that didn't make it in the fic if I can't find a place for it to fit properly. But to paraphrase my notes: "That's usually what the immune system is for."
That being said… We do have a few canon phenomena: Folsense's gas and Labyrinthia's ink causing hallucinations/having strong powers of suggestion, Labyrinthia's water causing people to faint if they hear the sound of a bell made of pure silver… It could also be argued that at least part of the "unknown incurable illnesses" that afflicted quite a few characters throughout the series, sometimes leading to their death, are a result of puzzle decay/possession gone wrong.
It is possible that some in-game puzzles involve fauna or flora having been physically altered for the sake of a puzzle, but I do not recall any specific example, so take that with a grain of salt. I do however remember that Colby, a constable from Scotland Yard, has his chin get longer whenever he smiles (as in it's not just me overanalysing his sprites, it's literally written down on his in-game profile description).
TL;DR: Yep. And the more you think about it, the more horrifying it gets.
Flora Reinhold has the mole in the shape of an apple, that only appears when she is happy/laughing. That isn't really possible, but perhaps that is caused by some sort of puzzle possession?
Yep 👀 (and, unfortunately, this is also why I believe that both her parents died because of puzzle decay/possession)
Could this also be an explanation for the nonsenical disguise abilities Don Paolo and Descole have, that they might partially be literal shapeshifters (or something in that direction?) A shapeshifting-like thing could also explain how Don Paolos hair works, why it is able to move around and shape itself in ways normal hair shouldn't (LF, the scene where he got his horns)
I wish I had an answer for that. For the time being, I am stuck at the stage of raising my fist at the sky and growling "I will figure out a scientifically valid mechanism someday. SOMEDAY. JUST YOU WAIT LEVEL-5, I WILL FIND AN EXPLANATION FOR YOUR CARTOON PHYSICS."
To give some more details: I can say at least that Descole and Don Paolo's disguises don't seem to work the same way. Don Paolo canonically uses latex(?) masks and extra clothes matching the person he's disguised as, which he leaves behind for Luke to collect and try on during the credits of Diabolical Box and Unwound Future. This... would be simple enough if it weren't for the fact that he's the one who somehow managed to disguise himself as Flora.
Meanwhile, Descole… just puts on his hat, and boom there we go the entire cast of characters and the audience alike just went from "A platypus?" to "PERRY the platypus???" So current guess is that instead of a full disguise (although he might still be using some kind of disguise to some extent, I don't remember the mention of latex masks or extra clothes in his case), he instead uses some sort of illusion/hallucinogen mechanic. I wonder whether he ever went to Folsense/Labyrinthia (or other location with similar properties), found out about the gas/other, and managed to weaponise it in order to trick people into seeing and hearing him with a different identity.
By the way, what if the hallucinogenic something that Descole uses is the reason why nobody in-universe was able to see how similar Desmond Sycamore looks to Descole, and why he could just get away with basically wearing the exact same clothes (or at least shoes)? Huh. Perhaps for all we know, he doesn't even bother trying to mimic other people's voices when he's "disguised" as them.
Last minute addition by @toy-pigeon: "i mean if his cologne is so strong that whatshisface in phong gi was able to smell it, maybe THAT'S what the hallucinogen is"
And now back to Don Paolo... I guess his hair could be similar to the examples of Flora or Colby, now that you mention it.
...Maybe one of his experiments made it worse and he actually can somehow fit inside those disguises.
...Oh darn I believe that might be an option and if it's the result of one of his engineering experiments gone wrong you've got even more reason for him to be the way he is, with the diving into super villain mode on a whim and all.
Thank you, I hate it, and I need some ibuprofen because my brain is boiling.
(Man, imagine writing a PL fanfic with a shapeshifter in it and only figuring this stuff out a year and a half later)
Do you think it is significant that in/around puzzle shacks, plant seem to grow in strange ways (there is almost always a tree around, often growing indoors)?
By itself, I wouldn't call that weird or supernatural. There is vegetation everywhere, and it is precisely what the Illusory Forest's Ancient Tree uses to collect knowledge from across the world. Also, Granny Riddleton has her shack inside the Molentary Express for a bit... The miniature tree could be fake, or could take its roots in. um. somewhere...? (it probably makes more sense if it's fake, but I did say earlier that Granny Riddleton may be capable of teleportation, so. there are a couple of hypotheses that may need to not be discarded just yet. but the tweezers I'm using to hold those hypotheses are the size of Clive's fortress.)
If it has any significance at all, it would be related to the Ancient Tree's shenanigans, not to the local laws of physics.
(i also find it strange how flowers grow underground, at the grave of Viola Reinhold. But that might not be caused by puzzles, I think at least)
Also not particularly supernatural looking to me, iirc there was sufficient light in her basement/grave for vegetation to grow relatively well. The sight does not shock me; in fact, a lot of flowers benefit from having sunlight, yes, but not direct sunlight.
If you want an unambiguously unusual example though, look at collection item #13 of Azran Legacy: "Bashful Sunflower - This healthy plant runs contrary to the laws of nature by turning away from the sun." And the original Japanese version if you want it: 「はにかみヒマワリ｜貫録あふれる花と葉をたくわえていながら、おひさまから目をそらすほど内向的な性格」 (Translation: "Bashful Sunflower - Despite its sturdy flowers and leaves, it is so introverted that it turns its eyes away from the sun." So this flower is sentient and extremely shy.)
(It's easier to see if you look at its 3D model in-game, but it is literally using its leaves to hide itself from the sunlight)
…and other plants such as the sunflower in LF being able to store/attract puzzles.
I'd connect that to the Ancient Tree, personally... But it's also basically implying that the plant itself is indeed having strange properties, which may have been developed in its species aeons ago due to exposure to puzzle weirdness (it would be, after all, the explanation for why the Ancient Tree itself was born. Simplest explanation is very simply that the Ancient Tree is a clairvoyant plant, on the same level as Granny Riddleton for example. It just also happens to be a tree, but as we saw a paragraph above, plants also can be sentient in the Laytonverse).
Could puzzle possession be able to alter genes/bodies? If they potentially create little "weird traits" such as Floras apple-shaped mole, or even shapeshifting, then they might have the potential to do even more.
As TL;DR for this whole part of the ask, I will just quote an excerpt from my notes which tried to summarise the puzzle theory in as few words as possible (I now realise that past me had not added this paragraph to the list of screenshots in the post I mentioned at the beginning of this reply. My bad, I believed that it was not that relevant at the time since it wasn't really about puzzles themselves):
The animal experiments in LF were probably meant to test the time travel-capabilities of Hamanier particles.
But apparently, the exposure to them was what caused Subject 3 to become so strangely human-like, apparently altering his body(?) and making him able to "walk".
I would argue that adult Subject 3 doesn't look that much different from his baby self from before he was experimented on. Same for Sherl, he doesn't look particularly "human-like" physically speaking, and doesn't look that much different from other dogs aside from "main character design" syndrome.
(Beasly, on the other hand... Well, seems like Level-5 conveniently baited us by having a whole cutscene where he said he had a whole backstory explaining how he came to be the way he is, only to be silenced by Puzzlette. But I'm putting him aside. And also -- just like Sherl, not every human can understand him. If you try to talk to him while Luke is missing, Layton and Flora don't even acknowledge his presence, let alone are able to understand what he says.)
I'm just going to quote again the screenshot from just a paragraph above, but "Plants/Fauna are WEIRD" in general. Plants are sentient and acquire information that they then convey to the Ancient Tree, animals have some level of sentience regardless of whether they have been experimented on (otherwise Luke wouldn't be able to hold complex conversations with them such as the ones he has with Toppy or with the other rabbit from the Miracle Mask minigame), and they too are able to solve puzzles, once again regardless of whether or not they have been experimented on.
TL;DR I don't believe that the time travel experiments that Subject 3, or the Parrot (Subject 1) suffered from had any significant changes on their body or psyche, other than being traumatising events by themselves.
As a reminder by the way: regarding Sherl, just like Subject 3, Beasly, or other animals, only a couple of humans are able to understand them. In the main six games, Luke and Clark Triton are the only ones canonically known to understand animals (and feel free to watch the Subject 3 scene and the Beasly cutscene from Unwound Future, in both cases Layton really is just standing motionless in the back, metaphorically fumbling his thumbs and waiting for Luke to come back and translate; and once again, when Luke is gone from the group, it is possible to go talk to Beasly... or rather, try).
In LMJ, it seems like Katrielle and Ernest are the only ones able to understand Sherl (unless some other NPC that I don't know about showed up occasionally and everyone went "you can understand him too?????", I did not watch all 50 episodes of the anime yet). Interestingly, Ernest is shocked that he could understand Sherl, so it seems that while Ernest is Special™ somehow, he is not able to understand other animals. And though Katrielle was barely surprised when Sherl showed up at her door, it also doesn't seem like she can understand other animals either. Whatever it is that Ernest and Katrielle have in common with each other but not with anyone else, for them both to be able to understand Sherl... I honestly have no clue (none that even remotely makes any sense, that is).
Aaaaaaand I believe I addressed everything! Phew, that was a lot, and it actually did give me a few things to think about that I had not given enough thought to until now.
Yes please do use this theory/headcanon in your fanfics/fanart/comics/macaroni collage and please give me links once it's done because I want to see it and give it love.
Puzzle weirdness has a lot of uses indeed, with the only limitations being Laytonverse humanity's current understanding of their own laws of physics (for mad scientist use) and general society's interest for puzzle-based technology (for widespread daily use). It is extremely likely that they do not understand most of the puzzle theory and that they just shrug it all off because it's normal to them. It's just like our own world: do we all commonly understand the entirety of physics? Heck no! And yet it interferes with our lives daily. Physicists in our world are figuring stuff out to this day, sometimes figure out that stuff everyone believed to be obvious in the past is completely wrong, sometimes figure out new stuff that nobody knew was a thing. It's the same thing in the Laytonverse, whether with "regular physics" (assuming those still work the way we know it) or with puzzle physics.
Absolutely-not-widespread uses include but are not limited to: St Mystere's robots (if they are sentient, they most likely rely on Hamanier particles stuff. Also the part about altering Dahlia's memories... Well, just take a look at ->), Descole's Detragan, Dimitri's time machine and mind-reading glasses, probably Descole's mechas in general (on the basis that they are likely inspired from Azran technology to some extent)...
The Azran had totally figured out how puzzles worked, to the extent that they even knew how to resurrect the dead and (allegedly, probably on accident) create an entire race of sentient robots. Go figure.
This post contains a lot of Illusory Forest spoilers (not that they're new to be fair, I've been talking about it for a while and I'm happy I finally get to start sharing the translation with you guys).
Puzzle decay/possession affecting living beings, including humans, is a horrifying subject that I want to tread with caution; but I do believe we have enough instances where it seems to be the simplest explanation, to conclude that it is an unavoidable consequence.
So turns out Descole using a hallucinogenic gas of sorts similar to Folsense or Labyrinthia for his disguises could be an interesting way to explain how he can just put on his tricorn and °magic poof° now he's Descole (whereas Don Paolo needs a bit more time to physically remove his disguises).
How dare you plant into my mind the idea that Don Paolo MAY ACTUALLY(?) have some relatively limited(??) shape-shifting ability(???) I hate how I cannot in the present times come up with a better explanation. I prefer the times when I was just aware of the issue and trying to postpone it for later, meekly hoping that future me would be able to find a rational explanation. You have opened my eyes on the fact that I need to get out of my denial phase and face the issue head on. Even if it means throwing my hands in the air and giving up.
I tried looking for a different explanation. I really did.
I believe fauna and flora are Just Like That from the start, because animals in the wild are just as weird as the ones that were experimented on, with the sole exceptions being Sherl, who is more in a grey area than completely sticking out of the norm, and Beasly who is. an interesting case to say the least. (an interesting case I have little to zero clues about for the time being. perhaps he's Subject 2 and what you said about Subject 3 actually applies to him instead. perhaps it is something else entirely.)
To conclude with your last few sentences -- if you intend to study the research aspect of science, good luck and have fun with it! (as much fun as you can have that is-- jk don't worry we're having a lot of fun even if 80% of our job is experiments or simulations not working and us crying because we have no idea what went wrong)
In a weird sense, I like to think of the puzzle theory as a way to introduce a simple enough way to go through the "scientific method" for research: you find something weird, you look for an explanation; and while looking for evidence in favour AND against your temporary explanation (*), you try your darn best to avoid that annoying confirmation bias among many other traps your brain will lay against you. The hardest part is to manage to respect Ockham's Razor (since the "simplest explanation requiring the least amount of assumptions" is surprisingly not always the most obvious one at first glance) and impartiality (because of the above-mentioned confirmation bias, notably).
(*) It is very important that we also look for evidence that challenges, or even outright contradicts our current hypothesis on how the thing we're studying works. After all, if your hypothesis is "all raven in the world are black," you can't be 100% confident in that unless you check every single raven in the world and make sure that you don't stumble upon a white one! And if you do find a white (or green with pink polka dots) one, instead of looking away and pretending you didn't see anything, you will adapt your hypothesis: from "all raven in the world are black," it will become "most raven in the world are black; we have looked at a thousand ravens so far and found two white ones, therefore the current state of our research leans towards the conclusion that there are 99.98% of black ravens and 0.02% of white ravens in the world."
