Project Title: Witch Hunt
Fandom: Naruto
Link: https://archiveofourown.org/works/51639226/chapters/130533748
Summary: After trial and error, Tobirama has managed to free Madara from the unknown entityâs control. However, they still donât know what its insidious plan was - and they both sense that this isnât over yet. But at least, Madara is free again. Or isnât he?
Warnings: blood, violence, loss
Characters: Uchiha Madara, Senju Tobirama, Uchiha Izuna, Senju Hashirama
Pairings: Madara x Tobirama (MadaTobi)
When I Started: November 2023
How I Lost My Shit: Too many other projects, especially prompt events. Also, one hell of a writer's block over many months due to health issues and life being a shithead sometimes.
How I Finished My Shit: Mostly because I really, really didn't want to let my lovely artist down (stay tuned to see their beautiful artwork for Witch Hunt!). And while forcing myself to write, I fell in love with my story and the goofballs all over again.
I've found the account of the artist who made this official art, and there's a post where they explain it and idk I felt the need to share it with the world (post)
"This is a momentary scene from the time that Hashirama described as "like a dream." The "dream" here seems to be a sad word that does not know when it will end, and if anything, I think Hashirama was the one who understood that. The Uchiha people have a tendency to entrust their hearts to them once they make a decision, so Madara certainly had a moment when he had the same dream, but from Hashirama's point of view, Madara always seemed a certain kind of precarity... I tried to put all these thoughts into one piece.
It's a banquet like a social gathering for the Uchiha and Senju. I think they happened often at that time. They've already become quite close. The postures of the people at the banquet are casual. And by this time, Hashirama had already gathered the popularity of the Uchiha people, and Madara suddenly left the group and was drinking alone on a tree while looking at the flowers. I think the more you are in a circle of people, the stronger you feel loss. He is drinking with Izuna, thinking of his younger brothers. And then you're in a special seat again! "Hashirama comes climbing the tree with a bottle of sake hanging from his arm. In the rough draft, he had brought a box of food from the banquet (because Hashirama is fully intending to stay here for a long time), but given his position, he should have asked someone to pack it for him, but I thought it would be fake to prepare that much, and it would be better if he just took the bottle of sake and disappeared without a trace, so I decided not to.
Tobirama glares at the two of them (or rather, Madara) with reproachful eyes for the leader who left the banquet. Given the situation, I wanted Tobirama to wear a haori coat, but changing his costume was a no-go.
This is the scene where Madara notices Hashirama climbing the tree and the stern gazes following him, so Madara's gaze is actually on Tobirama. I wanted to create a mysterious atmosphere with the cherry blossoms that Madara could blend into, so I made them talkative, but if I drew each blossom as it was, it came off like something from a shoujo manga, so I redrawn them all to make them look fluffy.
Madara is drawn to emphasize the sense of Madara as seen from Hashirama, and Hashirama is drawn to emphasize the sense of Hashirama as seen from Madara."
This was Madaraâs first appearance in the present story line, and from this badass pose alone, readers knew that shit was about to hit the fan, and boy, did it ever. This was why Madara needed to be the final antagonist before the 2nd Naruto/Sasuke showdown; because not only did he have plenty of prestige before the war arc due to being an individual on the same level as âThe God of Shinobiâ, Hashirama Senju, but also because during the war, his badassery simply knew no bounds, and the hype regarding his eventual confrontation with Naruto and Sasuke reached emphatic levels. Yet, this was all just to see his character get pushed to the side to make way for an antagonist who no one expected, or really cared about.
After he had soloed an entire army platoon, he then revealed that he had the Rinnegan in his already overpowered arsenal:
How did he obtain this power?
Hashiramaâs cells are literally just the answer to everything :P But in all seriousness, dealing with the entire army platoon by himself would have been an adequate testament to his strength, but Maddy decided to go a step further, and unleashed a meteorite upon the allied shinobi forces:
It took absolutely everything that Gaara and Onoki had to stop it, and when they finally did, an unimpressed Madara was just like, âWell done, now hereâs another!â:
And Maddy was unleashing these attacks as though they were common fireball jutsus; they didnât seem to consume much chakra at all.
So at this point, he had sent a clear message to the allied forces on just what kind of power they were dealing with. So their response was to dispatch the 5 Kages, thinking that would be sufficient. But Madara defeated them all, with relative ease:
And he more than stayed true to his word:
The guy just utterly dominated the 5 kages. That really gave a clear indication of the disparity between their power levels. He was on a pedestal completely above the rest. So who was the unfortunate next target to suffer his wrath, how about all the tailed beasts?
And he succeeded too, Madara not only lived up to the immense hype surrounding his character, but he both went above and beyond reader expectations, and added to his already immense prestige:
This guy and his poses XD At this point, many readers were wondering how on earth Madara could be defeated in a plausible manner, but his confrontation with Gai revealed that he did have a few chinks in his armour and wasnât the unstoppable juggernaut he appeared to be:
But Maddy was proving to be not only very resilient, but he was seriously enjoying the enhanced level of competition Gai was providing. Thus, although Maddy was getting beaten up, his aura of badassery remained untouched:
Gaiâs best efforts were no doubt highly impressive, but they werenât enough to keep Madara down. Subsequently, as all great antagonists do, Madara gave his badass boast following his triumph against Gai:
Literally all throughout the war, Iâm pretty sure Madaraâs actions were causing the allied forces to think things along the lines of:
He wasnât depicted as unstoppable, as explained above, but it did really seem like nothing the allied forces could do would be enough to keep him down. He took out the 5 Kages, the tailed beasts, and Gai after unleashing the 8th gate, all on his own. Even the two trump cards, Naruto and Sasuke, were close to meeting their demise:
However, after a while, Naruto and Sasuke were revived with sage abilities, courtesy of Hagoromo, in order to even the playing field a little bit:
So Maddy was just like, âbring it on!â, the stage was set for the final battle, and the hype was unprecedented:Â
So then why did this have to happen?
Why did Kaguya have to usurp Madaraâs rightful position as the âBig Badâ of the war?Â
Sure, Kaguya was the strongest individual entity to ever exist in the Narutoverse, and so on paper, that makes it seem like a more interesting final confrontation. But the issue, at least for me, was that there was no hype surrounding her character. Madara had been constantly built up, prior to and during the war; it was his popularity that had skyrocketed and I therefore wanted to see the war end with him. In comparison, Kaguya hadnât really been talked about at all. She just came out of nowhere and pushed Maddy to the side.
Whatâs worse was that in my opinion, Kaguya was a very boring character with no personality or charisma whatsoever. She just seemed very bland. Powerful, but bland, and that made her fight a lot less engaging. Compare that with Madaraâs ever so charming personality:
Madara displayed such an erratic, almost exuberant personality that made him fascinating to watch and enabled readers to fully engage in his fights and interactions:
Now compare that to Kaguya who was rather monotonous, and whose only display of real emotion was sorrow:
At one point Iâm sure Kishi caught wind of the predominantly negative reaction to Kaguyaâs character, and was tempted to draw something along the lines of:
But there was a reason that Kaguya wasnât very well received. Having Team 7 face off against the strongest character in history isnât enough to ensure that the fight will be engaging and entertaining to read/watch. There needs to be some build up to it; you need to make the readers want to see the outcome of the fight youâre hyping up, and that is exactly what Kishi did with Madara. Thatâs why it was so disappointing to have seen him in such a sorry state when all was said and done:
He didnât deserve to have that spotlight stolen from him by a powerful, but boring and stoic robot. Madara had all the credentials to provide a glorious penultimate fight, but alas, Kishi favoured power over substance for the âBig Badâ, and I was just left wondering when itâll end for the majority of the fight. It wouldnât have been that way with good oleâ Maddy :-(
I suppose Iâll end it with one of the reasons why Madara was such a cool antagonist :D
Wake up to reality! Nothing ever goes as planned in this accursed world. The longer you live, the more you realize that the only things that truly exist in this reality are merely pain, suffering and futility...
Among many possible plot holes mysteries in Narutoverse, an interesting one is Madara's choice of apprentice: in a clan of elites and prodigies, for the completion of his singular life's goal, Madara chose... the black sheep.
Naruto: Shippƫden - Episode #119
So, seriously, why Obito?
aka unhinged barely-coherent ramblings brought to you by @al-hekima's request :')
part 1: wtf old man you made no sense
Now, even though Madara himself has answered this question, he only engaged with it on a very superficial level, that is, he stated that he chose Obito because of his "deep love"âbut why would this be a good reason?
Just because great love can be corrupted into great hate?
Naruto - Chapter #675
If only Madara wasn't a character marked by his manipulative ways and (poetically ironic) self-deception and (just a touch of) "madness"-
If only we refuse to assign him more depth & complexity (perhaps more even than the creators intended?)-
If only Madara wasn't revealed to have been so isolated and paranoid and lost in regret that he got conned by a strange lifeform claiming to be his own will...
...except human ideals and sentiment (and bonds and emotional attachments) aren't so simple. Love doesn't always transform to hate, if ever, even when taintedâand certainly not so easily.
(Anddd let's not even get into the whole racist Uchiha biological determinism propagandaâcourtesy of Tobiramaâaka Curse of Hatred & "uCHihAz R oVeR-sEnSitiVe", etc.)
Just look at Sasuke.
Sure, he had grown to love his teammates (even almost dying for Naruto), but he didn't seem to particularly love his village, least of all in a brainwashed-by-state-propaganda kinda way...
(Ahem, hello, Uchiha "I'm gonna become Hokage and stop the war" Obito!)
Naruto - Chapter #653
Sasuke never was a crybaby, nor so soft-hearted that he couldn't stop himself from helping every elder he came acrossâto the point of being chronically late.
He never had a childhood friend with whom he shared true companionship and who was his whole support system (though his team was probably on the way to becoming a healthier version of that)âwhom he simply couldn't lose.
And certainly, his whole mission in life wasn't to become Hokage and end the war for the sake of not only his loved ones, but also his villageâeven, as Madara said, all shinobi.
(Madara be like: Hashirama, is that you?)
All in all, Sasuke never exhibited what Madara would call "deep love" for the people around him, which Madara saw in Obito.
And yet, Sasuke grew to hate Konoha so strongly, he vowed to destroy it entirely.
(That Sasuke is a victim of the fucked up system and his "hatred" should actually be understood as, at least in part, righteous and justified angerâis a whole other topic.)
Naruto - Chapter #416
At the peak of it, Sasuke's hatred might have even surpassed Madara's himself; and it certainly eclipsed that of Obito, who never touched Konoha after the Kyƫbi attack.
If one were to cite his "pact" with Itachi, well, many have rightly concluded that Obito was never really threatened by Itachi, whom he could easily eliminateânot least because Itachi was growing blind and succumbing to Ninja AIDS his mysterious lethal illness. Even if Obito were weaker, well, all he had to do was sic the entire Akatsuki on Itachi. (Deidara would have been delighted!) So, clearly, Itachi's pact is sadly inconsequential. Obito could've, and would've, destroyed Konohaâif he really wanted to.
In other words: this devotion & kindness that Madara cited are actually bad indicators for "who could grow to harbor the greatest hate", and Madara, on some level, should know this.
After all, Izunaâmoreso than Madara, who'd even foregone vengeance on Tobirama for killing his beloved brotherâheld the most hate/distrust toward the Senju, and clearly he was more similar to Sasuke (as canon itself indicated via Hashirama's words) than to Naruto or Hashirama, let alone "crybaby" Obito.
Hence, our little thesis: there is another reason, the real reason, that Madara chose the boy who loved deeply.
(and as a quasi-outline, here I lazily quote the tags that started the convo lol)
real bruh moment from madara like hmmm mr warlord-
is it perhaps some unresolved issues/trauma
leading you to *choose obito* not for his talent/potential but... his love
has it not occurred to you that maybe- just maaaybe- this is your subconscious' desperate call for help (read: a therapist)?
your soul unwittingly yearning for an escape from the bitter unending road to the infinite tsukuyomi
on which you're shepherded by black zetsu- a thing that claims to be your own will
but only demands of you & never works for your happiness?
(âmoment of silence for our fallen uchiha grim reaper)
like do yall ever think if madara never put a cursed seal on obito's heart
he might've been able to help madara and free him from bz
fr it really makes no sense for madara to choose a latebloomer like obito (black sheep?) when he could've picked literally any uchiha kid
i meannn genius shisui who *already had a mangekyo* at age 6-8... was RIGHT THERE
shisui got MS *during* the third war so even if the MS was after obito's rock moment-
shisui's sharingan had to have already matured (awakened up to 3 tomoe) BEFORE obito awakened his *base* sharingan
and i bet there were other unnamed uchiha kids- even orphans- who would've been a better apprentice for madara
madara & zetsu had no idea about kamui and could never have guessed so rly obito should've just been clearly shitty investment
and YET zetsu verbatim stated madara *chose* obito
even the ''obito is madara's direct descendant'' interpretation alone doesn't fully excuse this seemingly bad/risky call of madara's
so what if madara chose obito because- after watching all these random kids in the uchiha compound- he saw that nice loving kid and thought
deep down- without even admitting it to himself- without even *understanding* the pull he felt from this loser crybaby slowlearner kid-
"maybe this kid could save me"
part 2: so wait wdym "choose obito" (or: what zero pussupport system does to a mf)
First, let's note that Madara willingly and knowingly made the choice to pick Obito to be his "apprentice" / the next Madara.
Since Zetsu is the one cognizant of Madara's true intentions, their thoughts hold more weight than Madara's own words to Obito, who was his target for manipulation.
So when Madara said he "accidentally" found Obito because the cave-in (oh so conveniently) happened right on top of one of his secret underground passageways, while Zetsu said Madara chose Obito, we can safely conclude Zetsu isn't the one withholding truth here.
Naruto - Chapter #605
Next, let's consider the gravity of this roleâespecially for Madaraâwhich many (including myself at first) have missed or failed to seriously ponder.
Sure, many have called Madara an "asshole" for turning on Obito and using him for Rinne Rebirth after Obito emerged heartlessly (sorry) from Kamui-
Sure, one could argue this adds to his characterization as a one-dimensional sociopathic villain who doesn't care about anyone or anything other than himself; his goals and quest for power-
Sure, many think Madara never regretted any of the damages he'd done, only that causing said damages still didn't get him what he wanted-
But didn't canon itself disprove this; through Itachi's false accounts of Madara stealing his brother's eyes in his blind (no pun intended) grasping for powerâand how both Obito & Hashirama's accounts flip that idea on its head?
And maybe this is just me reading too much into this, but since it adds depth to a major character who (in popular fanon) lacks it, I'll go right ahead and conclude:
Through the reveal of Izuna's "gift" (rather than Madara's theft), i.e. the narrative evidence of Madara's love for his brother, which Hashirama said exceeded that of Itachi's for Sasuke, the text was drawing a clear parallel between Madara and Itachi on a level beyond that of "being a protective older brother":
Madara isn't a one-dimensional villain; he is a character meant to be misunderstood as a one-dimensional villain.
After all, his entire "descent" hinges on his loss of Izuna (read: his failure to protect his last & dearest brother) and his disappointment in Hashirama & Konoha (read: his failure to protect his brethren).
Naruto - Chapter #625
It's no wonder Madara reacted the way he did when Hashirama offered him the position of Hokage.
He saw himself as a failureânot that he would ever admit it. He fell in love with the idea of a world of dreams precisely because reality left him with nothing but pain and loss. It forced him to confront the idea that he, Uchiha Madara, the strongest alongside the God of Shinobi, in a world that (falsely) taught him power would grant you everything... He, Uchiha Madara, was still helpless to prevent tragedies from befalling his brother; from encroaching upon his clan.
To say Madara knew no regrets is to call blood devoid of red.
All of this is easy to miss, since only Hashirama ever got to see even glimpses of Madara's "weakness" (read: humanity). It's highly unlikely he would show that side of himself to anyone except one he trusted so like Hashirama and, certainly, Izuna (and maybe to a lesser extent, Obito; in genjutsu conversations they may have had "off-screen").
It would actually be strange and out of character for him to ever explicitly exhibit any of this in the text, just for the readers' benefit; especially since it would have had nothing to do with the plot or progressing it.
It just makes sense that, in an era where power (read: cruelty) meant everything, Madara would learn quickly to hide any vulnerabilities and purposely paint himself as something that detached or careless observers would see as a "one-dimensional villain".
Naruto - Chapter #398
And that's why Obito and the role he was chosen to fillâits sheer existenceâis so important to assigning more depth to understanding Madara. It's the single biggest evidence for (post-Black-Zetsu) Madara's humanity.
After all, if Obito (the apprentice) was really meant to be nothing more than a disposable tool, why didn't Madara just use Nagato? Might as well get a 2-for-1 deal.
Orphaned Nagato would've been just as easily manipulated as kid Obito. And at worst, Madara could've mindfucked him with indoctrination or genjutsu (psychological shenanigans or sharingan shenanigans) or both. Could've even sicced him with a cursed sealâjust like Obito.
If he had the chance to discreetly implant the Rinnegan into Nagato without anyone noticing, then he must've had the chance to abduct the boy.
So why the need for Obito, a second Madara?
Here Madara's humanity bleeds through.
(Anddd so we dive into straight-up headcanon nonsense-)
While it's less likely, perhaps in some small way, Madara didn't wish to get up close and personal with a child who would one day be sacrificed for his own revival, and get accidentally attached; hence leaving the "dirty work" to his apprentice. (Note that Madara never revealed himself to Nagato at all.)
(It would fit @al-hekima's interpretation of Madara & Izuna's dynamic too: Izuna is the one who's actually better with the "dirty work" compared to his clan-head/commander older brother, mirroring the dynamic of Hashirama & Tobirama.)
Most likely, though, after all those decades alone in that damn cave... well, Obito's date of birth should've already spoiled it:
Naruto - Chapter #386 + #612
Madara wantedâneededâsomeone to stand beside him: a stand-in for Izuna (and perhaps, in his wildest dreams, where lived on their ideal selves free of hatred & reality's corrosive claws... Hashirama).
But wait, wasn't Obito just another sacrificial pawn to Madara, no different from Nagato?
Welp, let's review the circumstances of Madara's using Obito as a "sacrifice":
FACT 1: The plan was always to use Nagato for Rinne Rebirth. (damn Anti-Uzumaki discr-)
FACT 2: Since Obito lost them Nagato (and presumably not just anyone can be forced to perform Rinne Rebirth using Black Zetsu), Madara's only option was to use Obito, or... forsake his one, true dream.
FACT 3 (conclusion): Obitoâthe apprenticeâwas never meant to be sacrificed.
If Nagato weren't already dead, Madara would've never "sacrificed" the apprentice.
(It's also worth noting that Obito was the one to first declare to Madara that they weren't comrades.)
Let's imagine Madara's ideal scenarioâwhere Nagato lives (only to be sacrificed for Madara), Obito never betrays Madara, and... they "win".
Where would Obito be then?
Here the true nature of the vacancy Obito filled is revealed.
(For Obito, it's just another way to be used as a tool, of course; but this betrays something about Madara: something achingly, dearly human-)
The role of the apprentice that Madara sought and didn't consider Nagato forâthat of the second Madaraâwas to not be sacrificed (hence Nagato was not an option) nor serve as a disposable tool (though they'd be a nice back-up for a worst-case scenario); it was to stand by Madara.
Of course, Madara (by that point) had been so unable to trust anyone (read: twisted by Black Zetsu), and so placed a cursed seal on the heart of his apprentice / surrogate brother / enforced support system.
Even so, it's curious that he seemingly didn't turn the chosen child (Obito) into a completely helpless puppet, or completely mindwash them with genjutsu (since Obito was at least able to refuse to revive Madara) or use a jutsu like Orochimaru's Fushi Tenseiâyet another thing that could only point toward "the second Madara" being a role borne of Madara's subliminal need for companionship: a quasi-brother, a fellow warrior he could respect and rely on, and heck, a comrade to make his eventual victory feel not-so-hollow; so he wouldn't have to stand alone the day he achieved his "true dream"... someone controllable enough not to mess up the plan or "take Madara's back" as he always feared, but nonetheless human.
When Obito "rejected" this role by denying Madara his comradeship, it likely wounded more than just Madara's pride (though he probably never realized it), and his attitude slowly shifts from before vs after this proclamation:
Where before he was almost giddy ("you're like a kid"), excited for battle; addressing Obito in attempts at banter ("you look like you're having fun"); and almost in denial about the signs that Obito betrayed him or strayed from the plan...
Naruto - Chapter #601
...he switched to heartlessly objectifying (and not in the sexy way) the heartless Obito (sorry - reprise) and stating (out loud, anyways) that he was a mere "back-up".
Still, all this sounds like a flimsy cover-up (do we dare say lies?) for the sting of rejection by the closest person he had left to a brother/comradeâwhich must've been a painful reminder of Izuna's glaring absenceâand the real reason he waited decades for someone to entrust the plan & even his own name to... something he couldn't fix or defeat or perhaps even confrontâfor all his "god-like" powers, and for all that it is so disgustingly pedestrian: loneliness.
(And how dear is it to imagine Madara in his cave, picturing the day of his glorious "victory", when he sends mankind to the perfect, eternal dreamworld... only to taste bitterness, as he saw himself standing on top of the world, all alone?)
"What's he got in mind? Things don't look as if they're going as he'd planned."
Naruto - Chapter #601
"Well, knowing you... I'm sure you have something in mind..."
Note that Madara offers these excuses rationalizations in defense of Obito's loyalty and/or competence himself, apropos of any explanation from Obito.
Naruto - Chapter #600
"Looks like you're having fun here... Obito..."
Naruto - Chapter #601
Note that Obito's response not only ignores Madara's attempt to "talk shop" aka banter about (the fun of) combat and share intel on their opponents (powers & weaknesses, shorthands for strategies, etc.)â
âbut also neglects to reassure Madara of the changes to their plans; e.g. why he was revived with Edo Tensei, or why they were at war at all.
(It wasn't originally part of the plan, so understandably, Madara was puzzled upon learning of the war & alliance from MĆ« / Kabuto.)
Heck, Obito never even answered Madara as to where the real Naruto was. (Since the one in front of them had been a shadow clone.)
Naruto - Chapter #608
Note that Madara (again) addressed Obito in what seemed to be attempts to re-establish or develop a connection:
"These guys are a distraction for you too, right?"
"...enjoy what little time we've got left..."
For someone like Madara, this was perhaps the closest he would ever come to showing or extending warmth, camaraderie, even respect.
(The fact that he even acknowledged someone, let alone initiated contact or conversation, all in non-hostile ways, is noteworthy in itself.)
...meanwhile Obito only had eyes for Kakashi didn't even deign to respond in the slightest.
(mf really left madara on read-)
To sum up, despite all the signs, Madara never seemed to quite register or accept Obito's "rejection" of his comradeship/mentorship/whatever-relationship-Madara-may-have-been-going-for; at least, not until Obito explicitly declared that he never saw Madara as an allyâwhich is when Madara's attitude began to shift* (though "the first crack" probably occurred when he learned they'd lost Nagato, since he had to have accepted then that there was no way forward except with Obito's demotion to sacrificial pawn).
* I say "(slowly) shift" because as soon as one issue after Obito not-comrade-zoned Madara, we got Madara looking at him like a proud soccer mom except, yknow, the kid in question was committing brutal mass murder instead of scoring a little goal or something.
Naruto - Chapter #614
"Well, well, my little rugrat sure has become quite the wily fox..."
Naruto - Chapter #615
"You've become almost exactly like the old me... Obito..."
the way madara's giving "you're doing amazing sweetie" kris jenner energy-
So since Madara's answerâas to why he chose Obitoâwas an incomplete one at best; and said choice was conscious, crucial, characteristic...
part 3: why not shisui? (or literally anyone else?) âobito, while yanking at madara's hair and his own, probably
or:
WHO WOULD WIN?
Shisui: a genius, prodigy, generational talent eventually known as the strongest Uchiha even when "Wicked Eye" Fugaku was still alive (and Fugaku was considered as strong as Minato; both were the top candidates for Fourth Hokage), who either already had an MS or, at worst, a mature 3-tomoe sharingan
âvsâ
Obito: one half-rekt boi
Welp, first, keep in mind that in selecting his apprentice, Madara must've been really, really picky: he hadn't settled on one in decades, until Obito.
This is also supposedly years after awakening the Rinnegan, so again, it's curious what Madara did with all those years before Obito.
Why willingly put the plan in limbo (me and my trash puns-) for so long? (obv plot armor for naruto-)
Madara "got" Obito when he was 13, and the databooks state the Ame orphans are 4 years older than Obito, so Nagato at this time was 17 and already had the Rinnegan for a while. In fact, he must've had it since before he was 7.
We know this because Jiraiya left the Ame orphans when they were 10, after training them for 3 years. When they met, Nagato already had the Rinnegan.
So Madara must've awakened the Rinnegan when Nagato was 7âif not earlierâand Obito was 3. This means Madara already knew he was close to death ten years before he finally "took" Obito "under his wing". And yet, instead of immediately choosing whoever, he "held out" for Obito.
Naruto - Chapter #560
"I awakened the Rinnegan just prior to my death."
And what could Madara's impossible standards possibly be?
The most logical "boxes" to tick:
Powerful.
Susceptible to manipulation.
Low-profile. (Won't be missed.)
1. Power or Potential
Well, this one's a no-brainer.
Shisui, despite being younger than Obito by about 5-7 years, was always renowned as a genius, elite even in a clan of elites, whereas Obito... was known as a washout.
Well, what about real-world battle experience? Obito was Minato's student, must've gone with him on some big missions; so maybe he had the edge on Shisui there?
Yeah, no. Since Konoha was so fucked up "desperate" that they deployed children during the Third Warâwith Kakashi becoming chĆ«nin and going on missions at only 6âShisui, another prodigy, should have had the same treatment and thus possess no less combat experience than Obito.
The best case you could make against Shisui is maybe... Madara knew of Kotoamatsukami, and dismissed Shisui because he didn't like that it isn't very combat-oriented (but more suited to politics and subterfuge).
This falls apart, though, when you realize that Koto would've still been really useful in gathering intel, collecting bijƫ, and just BZ-Mada's (new rap duo-) world domination plot in general. If anything, isn't it a plus?
Shisui's genius + Madara's training + Shisui's Susanoo should've more than made up for Koto's (arguably) non-offensive nature & (assumed) long cooldown time.
After all, when has Madara ever even used his MS ability? (In canon manga, noneâunless you headcanon that it's Limbo.)
And if one were to say that Madara might not have known about Shisui's genius/MS...
Ao (who got his Byakugan in the Third War) stated that he's fought Shisui and knew Koto well, so it was clearly not kept strictly secret. Madara should've known too.
(In order to know what Obito was likeâ"isn't elder care your specialty?"âbefore choosing him, Madara, likely via White Zetsu spies, must've been monitoring the Uchiha compound, if not all of Konoha.)
So why would Madara be convinced that Obito could have a better MS, let alone that he could awaken it at all? (Not all sharingan users can.)
At worst, Obito's lineage is unclear. Shisui's ancestor, though, is known to be Kagami, who was remarkable enough to earn Tobirama's trust and respect.
Even if we accept Obito is descended from Madaraâisn't it careless, even foolish of him, to hang all his hopes on a "washout" just because he is of his own blood?
What's more, with Obito's reputation in the clan and village, it's very unlikely his parents or close relatives were particularly talented, so the bloodline is clearly "diluted" to a notable extent.
In the end, the fact is: at any time, Shisui had to have had the more advanced sharingan.
The Narutoverse timeline is a messâespecially Shisui's story, which is riddled with holes in canon manga, and worse: the semi-canon material that attempts to "fill in the blanks" tells different stories between anime filler / novel / gameâbut either way, there are 2 possibilities:
(1) Shisui got his MS in the Third War or near its end, so probably before Kannabi Bridge (Obito's "death").
(2) Shisui got his MS just after the Third War, so after Madara had already "rescued" Obito.
Even if we go with possibility #2, by that point near the end of the Third War, Shisui's dĆjutsu should be more evolved and better-honed, as Obito only unlocked his sharingan for the first time at Kannabi Bridge.
It's important to note that unlike the HyĆ«ga and their Byakugan, Uchiha are not born presenting their Sharingan. It has to be awakened, and even among Uchiha, the sharingan is very rare. And because it's not apparent from birth... For most Uchiha, including Obito, there is no guarantee that one even carries (the potential to unlock) the clan's dĆjutsu or bloodline trait.
(Just like how Kimimaro was the only one in the Kaguya Clan with the bone-manipulating kekkei genkai.)
In short, there was a very real possibility that Obito could never even awaken the sharingan at all.
Naruto - Chapter #12
(This is why I theorize Madara only "took" Obito after Kannabi Bridge instead of earlier, even if he'd already had his mind set on the boy: he was waiting for Obito to show that he could at least awaken the sharingan.)
All this should be overwhelming evidence that Madara's choiceâoverlooking Shisui, who must've already proven himself a capable sharingan user while Obito was still fixing his gogglesâis suspect at best, so here's the final point against Obito in this category:
Shisui still had his right side. (sorry, rip wholebito.) And, of course, both his eyes. (Goddamn it Danzo-)
p.s. a good idea for a counter from @frost-felon is that Madara wanted someone who'd survive receiving implants of Hashirama cells.
except... Madara never even tried to kidnap Shisui to test Hashi-cells on him. most importantly, why would this be crucial to Madara's plans? sure, mokuton makes it easier to control and collect bijƫ, but in the end, Obito used the Akatsuki and so managed without mokuton.
Naruto - Chapter #606
based on Madara's statement, the only reason Obito should need HashiCells is to control the statue.
but why would the apprentice (Obito / Shisui) need to do that himself, if they already had Nagato? who, once gone, would have revived Madara, who could use the Rinnegan? again, there's no real need for the apprentice to be able to survive HashiCell (new smartphone brand-) implants.
All in all, it should've been immediately obvious which boy would be easier to train, and which had more potential to be stronger, more cunning, and more "efficient" than the other.
2. Susceptibility to Manipulation
A good point against Shisui from @al-hekima is the Will of Fire & how Konoha successfully brainwashed "educated" him: he bought into the "village > villagers" dogma so hard, he was happy to brainwash his entire clan "for peace."
(...when he could've at least brainwashed both sides? equal opportunity human rights violati-)
But that was Shisui at 16-ish. If Madara had "taken" him at the tender age of 6-8... couldn't Madara have twisted his loyalty & dedication-to-the-cause to his benefit? Imagine all the crimes against humanity things Shisui would've been happy to do for Madara if, instead of Konoha, he lived for the Infinite Tsukuyomi.
And let's not forget who else fell for Konoha's propaganda... (Hello again, Uchiha "I'm gonna become Hokage and stop the war!" Obito!)
Despite Konoha being the one Nagato accused of starting the war-
Despite the fact that Konoha didn't do whatever it tookâsurrender territories? agree to Iwa's terms?*âto end the war, when it was so at a disadvantage it had to send children to war-
* The end of the Third War finally came only when the positions of Iwa & Konoha were reversed and the Tsuchikage signed the peace treaty, conceding to Konoha's terms.
Sure, Konoha secured peace when it could've damaged Iwa further; but why hadn't Konoha done what Iwa finally did and conceded earlier, when it was in Iwa's cornered position?
Clearly, they (Konoha, the Fire DaimyĆ, the Hokage) prioritized capital / territories over the lives of their people and the children they sent into battle.
Despite likely seeing with his own eyes the many horrors of war and the shinobi systemâwhich includes his villageâas the latter capitalizes on the former, even relying on it for subsistence-
So taken was Obito with his nation/village's propaganda that, despite all this, Obito still believed wholeheartedly that being Hokage meant he could solve everything. That being Hokage meant protecting everyone and ending wars.
(...instead of serving the state's interests and treating people, especially other shinobi, more like tools/pawns and not like humans.)
Although Kid Obito was never shown to be happy to commit human rights violations for the sake of the village like Teen Shisui, there's no doubt he is no less brainwashed by Konoha than Kid Shisui must've been.
3. Profile or Notability in Konoha
Now, the biggest reason Madara might've struggled with finding an Uchiha apprentice for all those decades is... in that old cave, Grampadara & his trusty plant sidekicks are weak and vulnerable.
Madara only awakened the Rinnegan around 10 years before he "rescued" Obito, and the White Zetsu come from the GedĆ Statue, which could only be summoned using the Rinnegan. So before he was close to death; before the Rinnegan... Madara didn't even have a single White Zetsu.
It was just him and Black Zetsu, alone in the dark pit of the earth, for decades. (No wonder he lost his damn mind-)
In all that time, with his injuries from the final fight with Hashirama, as well as the possible strain from Hashi cells (think DanzĆ and the seal on his arm), he might've not yet felt "ready" to find and train a potential apprentice.
By the time he had the Rinnegan, the Statue, White Zetsuâhe was already "close to death"; couldn't so much as leave.
If Madara were to finally kidnap a potential apprentice in his final decade, he'd likely assign the task to White Zetsu, as he himself could not separate from the Statue and live. (Not to mention he'd be in no fighting shape.)
Could this explain why he overlooked Shisui, who would've been too powerful for White Zetsu to just kidnap?
Not really. Madara was a smart manâa warlord, clan head, leader... an able strategist. We see this in his orchestration of Rin's death:
Naruto - Chapter #675
So on top of Zetsu, Madara had other available pawns, such as the Kiri shinobi he managed to control to do his biddingâeven as an aged, dying man chained to a statue.
He may not be able to completely control an entire platoon and make them his personal guards (since we saw no sign of this), but he could set certain events into motion and profit from their consequences or collateral damages.
For Madara, kidnapping even a powerful child like Shisui should be feasible.
Another issue, then, is that Madara likely couldn't afford having people sniff around his hideout, or even getting too closeâand so the child had to be one... no one would miss.
Surely, Uchiha "Black Sheep" Obito would win here against Shisui?
Again... not really.
Canon gave little on Shisui's background; he could easily be another orphan. Outside canon, from anime filler / novels, Shisui is stated to have a family of threeâbut he's no "son of the clan head." Despite his talent, were he to disappear during a mission (say, a run-in with elite Kiri-nin), Shisui would likely simply be mourned as a hero, a light snuffed out too soon; but just another casualty of war. No more fuss than Obito's death got.
Of course, were he actually high-profile, it would be a different story. Imagine if Obito had been Itachi or Asuma: son of an important Konoha figure. War or not, there would've been a search party to retrieve their bodies.
For Obito, sure, he's no more "notable" in the village than Shisui. Obito had no family, no love from his clan, no one who truly cared about him (his grandmother is pure filler) except maybe Rin.
But by 13, Obito was no longer low-profile.
His sensei was not just the most dangerous man at the time (with a "flee on sight" order); he was the shoe-in for Fourth Hokageâwhich alone must make Obito more high-profile than most Uchiha kids; even ones with parents. It should've been a red flag for Madara.
The non-canon game scenes exacerbate this.
(And apparently Kishi worked on the scripts for the game's OVAs, so they can be considered... semi-canon?)
Obito was apparently Kushina's "favorite", who was arguably another important figure in Konoha. She was one of the last Uzumaki. She also had the ear of Mito, the Uzumaki Clan Head's daughter and the First Hokage's wife (before her death). And of course, she is the "precious" involuntary walking-suicide-bomb jinchƫriki.
Moreover, despite Kakashi being in the team, Minato (and likely Kushina as well) wanted Obito to be the next Hokage after himself.
Naruto - Chapter #637
Minato was not a man to waste words or take his dreams & goals lightly. It may not have been explicitly shown, but just as Tobirama groomed Hiruzen to be his successor and Hiruzen did Minato (ahem, Konoha nepotism-), based on Minato's words, it's very likely Minato would've groomed Obito to be Hokage after him, if he hadn't already been doing so all along.
So instead of Shisui, who at most had two relatives and some standing in a clan that's historically, continuously, systemically marginalized by the village...
Madara went after the intended future Hokage, stealing him right from under the nose of the next Hokage aka Supreme (Military) Leader of one of the five superpowers of their world.
"Getting" Obito must've actually been more troublesome than Shisui or any other Uchiha, since Madara had to plan everything around Minato. ("I targeted a time when Minato was off on some other mission...")
This is most likely one reason that Madara only "took" Obito after he was presumed dead. Anything less might've had the Yellow Flash and a Konoha search party snooping around and disrupting his plans.
In short, Madara risked it all to "procure" the boy who loved deeply.
...the boy who didn't even have the right side of his body, nor his right eyeâas a dĆjutsu user.
So, the only answer for "why not Shisui?" must be something beyond checking the boxes for "ideal kidnap material"; something that only Obito had.
And so we return to Madara's answer: Obito had kindness, devotion, and... Obito loved. Deeply.
(or at least, that's the least interesting interpretation; one you'd gain from minimal engagement with the material.)
That part of Madara's answer was the lie; deception even on himself. But somewhere in the web of his lies, there was truth.
So, to recite part 2, something in Madara undeniably drove him to seek out the kind boy instead of the gifted boy: a vulnerability that he can never kill off, nor compensate for by guarding his backâwhich could only have the opposite effect.
After all, even the "Grim Reaper of the Uchiha" was a man, and in the end, wanted someone to stand by his side.
But to go even further... (into unhinged hc territory) what Madara wanted might've been even more than companionship; something no one should have the right to ask of a child, but which Madara could not attain from anyone else: salvation.
part 4: a cry for help
(sorry this part is mostly sad madara thoughts)
So why did Madara stay in that cave doing nothing for decades?
Even if he didn't have White Zetsu until the final decade; even if he couldn't use the puppet-making cursed seals before the Rinnegan; even if he was rendered weak from his Hashirama-inflicted injuries; even if he was struggling to contain the Hashi-cells in his body without a good seal or help from experts like DanzĆ had...
Why didn't he use his strategic skills and Black Zetsu, who had apparently been approaching & manipulating Indra & Asura reincarnatesâalways the most powerful & high-status in their generationâfor eons?
Why didn't he kidnap a child and train them as his apprentice in the many years before Obito?
Well... we already know that Madara is a man filled with regrets, whose true dream is not even to destroy his enemiesâagain, he never sought revenge against even Tobiramaâbut to create a perfect world devoid of war, hatred, and losers.
It's interesting to note, too, that he always mentioned this idea of "winners and losers", instead of focusing only on love and hate or, say, oppressors and the oppressed. What could've been going through his mind, when he thought of the word "loser"?
Was that how he saw himself, despite all the victories he'd earned for his clan, and the fact that he and Hashiramaâthe result of their two final battles asideâhad always been renowned as equals for decades?
Was he also thinking of others, those weaker than him, no matter what their clan wasâperhaps even those he "belittled", like Ćnoki and MĆ«âand how he wanted to protect and uplift even them? To make sure no one else would have to suffer in a world where the only currency was power; a world that cursed you to thusly seek power even if it came at the cost of those closest to you?
When it came down to it, the Infinite Tsukuyomi was nothing but the means to an end. The "end" or true goal of Madara's later life... was peace. Perfect and eternal. (Impossible.)
So perhaps, in all those decades he was alone with Black Zetsu in some godforsaken cave... perhaps, even Uchiha Madara had doubts.
About kidnapping a child and manipulating them, setting them down a path where there could only be sorrow and solitude.
About taking them from the life they could've known and their loved onesâas if he were no better than those who took Izuna and his other brothers from him.
About doing what he dreamed to vanquishâperpetuating hate and violence and painâeven though his own will kept telling him... it would all be worth it, for the perfect world they'd create.
Perhaps... all those decades, and even the years since awakening the Rinnegan... were time Black Zetsu needed to keep Madara isolated, and chained to the plan.
To keep him away from anyone who might change his mind, though since Izuna's death and Hashirama's sword in his back, no such person existed.
To keep whispering and whispering in his ear... convincing him, because of course it is his own will, that ending the shinobi world as they knew it, no matter who became collateral damage... was the only way.
After all, who would be more vulnerable than a man haunted by regrets and enchanted by a pure dream of peace that excluded no one; who had lost everything and yet, for some reasonâsurely, thanks to his own will!âcould not die?
Perhaps, there were even days in his old age when, as Black Zetsu crept around him and thought of nothing but "when will we get the Rinnegan already?"âMadara sent himself to sleep and a proto dreamworld, and silently prayed never to wake, except in the land where only dead men walked, because he didn't wish to see anything anymore except Izuna, his parents, and all his lost brothers. Just someone, anyone, who instead of fearful looks or hateful frowns, would greet him with an honest smile.
Perhaps, there were days when all he could think of was how he only ever saw Hashirama as a friend, a worthy rival, a respected equal; and yet... despite the weight of Madara's admirationâeven fondnessâfor the man, why did Hashirama seem to ever do nothing but let him down?
Perhaps he asked himself, why did Hashirama never do anything but meaninglessly "scold" Tobirama for all his hateful words against Madara's clan, as if they were children at a playground, and not greatly influential state leaders? (and in Tobirama's case, a ninja scientist.)
As if Tobirama's words (lies sold as truth, perhaps the most dangerous sort of words) would only lead to an outburst from one Uchiha or two, and not seed an entire culture of viewing men, women, and childrenâborn with nothing in common but the Uchiha bloodlineâas devils with evil eyes and dangerous, unalterable hatred?
As if Hashirama never even consideredâor cared?âthat such sentiment could influence someone, such as... hypothetically... a student of Tobirama whose name rhymed with HanzĆ... to call for something as atrocious as genocide on Madara's clan?
Perhaps, under the weight of all that, Madara finally caved and bought into the dream borne of "his own will."
(A "dream" involving the corruption of all he actually wanted in the first place; making it a good foil to the Will of Fire.)
After all, had Hashirama not bought into the vessel of his own dreamâthe means and not the endâto the detriment of the dream itself, i.e. peace and the protection of those he loved...
Had Hashirama not fallen for the hypocrisy paradox of the Will of Fire, that is, having the "courage" to kill even your own child "for the sake of the village"âdespite the village being created (by Hashirama himself, no less) in order to protect loved ones; a place for your child, and all children, to have a better life, free from war and constant violence...
Had Hashirama not forsaken and killed Madara, but instead captured him and made every attempt to heal his figurative wounds, many of which Hashirama himself carved onto him...
Would Black Zetsu have succeeded?
(The greatest irony of all, of course, is that even Madara warned Hashirama in that very moment.)
Naruto - Chapter #626
(It's truly hilarious that Madara, one of the main villains of the entire series, became the author's mouthpiece here.)
It's also worth remembering that Black Zetsu had tried and failed for eons. Meaning whatever the case, Indra & Asura reincarnates before Madara had either never made it as far as to... bite a chunk of their counterpart's flesh (not really an S-Rank Mission, is it? doesn't even require a fight, really); or never succumbed to Black Zetsu's manipulations.
But for once, with Madara, Black Zetsu struck gold: it found not only an exceedingly powerful man unmatched for generations, but also one who had lost everything, and been left behind by everyone he cared for. Someone so tortured inside that the only way out he could seeâthe only way to copeâwas a world of dreams.
And so Madara fell.
But deep down, there must've been something, a tiny voice, that kept him tethered just south of nowhere. That noticed something was wrong. That kept him from making any meaningful strides toward the completion of his plan for decades.
(That pointed him to the flawed but loving boy instead of the perfect boy, or any other child.)
After all, instead of kidnapping Obito and faking his dead at any other opportunity, Madara only "took" him when... he had been crushed half to death by a rock, and would've died without Madara's interference.
(Almost like he only ever even "took" Obito because the alternative was... allowing a boy to die. A boy whose kindness and devotion made a mark on him.)
So, because other interpretations are boring while this one adds (much needed) dimensions to Madara's as well as Obito's characters & arcs, because it's clear now that Madara isn't as single-mindedly determined to bring forth the dream world as his affectations would have you believe...
What if that something is the last thing we'd expect from Madara the Villain, but the first thing we should've guessed when seeing Madara as not just Warlord/Uchiha-Grim-Reaper/Big-Bad-Mad-Man, but humanâExploited-Child-Soldier/Grieving-Brother/Traumatized-Veteranâand brought to all the wrong choices by circumstances that could very well break anyone?
What if Madara just wanted to be saved from the path of ruin, to hell that it is his own doing?
And when he saw a boy who wanted to "stop the war" and had a bright, sunny dispositionâjust like Hashirama, his childhood friend-
Who cared deeply for his comradesâjust like Izuna, his beloved brother, who would rather face uphill battles than risk his clansmen's future in an untrustworthy alliance, when even Madara had almost forsaken everything in favor of his desire to reconcile with his childhood friend; Izuna, who even shared the boy's birthday-
When Madara saw this boy who brought back to life the spirit of the two people he loved most, and who made him who he was...
(Remember, instead of Izuna, Madara's "last words" before being "consumed" by Kaguya was directed to Hashirama.)
Perhaps he thought, finally, as he saw at last a boy who could grow and be worthy of his name, someone he could seeâand would wantâby his side.
Nevermind that in the end, all he accomplished after the decades that he should've been focusing on his plan, was chase after ghosts.
And more than that, maybe he was silently praying, as he made his choice that doomed the boy forever, that this was someone whoâas Izuna couldn't, and as Hashirama wouldn't, and as his victim shouldn'tâdespite it all, might just save him.
tangentwithtanner
yousharknotpass
jbbartram-illu
dededos
annaxmalina
