Rereading Captive Prince

[rainydaydecaf]

Sometimes I remember Laurent saying “I didn’t think he would actually try to kill me” and I remember Aimeric screaming “he loves me!” and I remember Nicaise saying “he’s not going to send me away, he’s promised” and I remember Laurent also saying “no, you promised-“ I just fucking sob

[starsworth]

"fetch me some," laurent said.

damen rose. and stopped.

laurent had gone very still.

[overthinker-needs-to-overshare]

To this day, I still can't believe that Laurent said "fetch" and Damen immediately jumped up like a puppy chasing a ball.

[overthinker-needs-to-overshare]

The way Laurent says it... He is not only talking about Damen's behavior in bed, but also as a person.

After years of picturing him as someone despicable, he turns out to be this honest and gentle man who supports him at all times and gives him all the affection he has been lacking. With his warm smile and his damn dimple and his massive biceps and…

[overthinker-needs-to-overshare]

On Laurent’s self-hatred

Stumbling across this post recently reminded me of some of my personal interpretations of how Laurent's mind works. While I mostly agree with the OP, there are a few comments I'd like to make (and they'll probably be very sad, long and chaotic):

1 - First of all, I don’t think Laurent easily classifies people as evil. That’s something he does with Damen because he has already constructed a fictional character for him who embodies the source of all his pain, but he doesn’t easily hate other people. What he does, however, is look for any signs that they might be using him or working for his uncle, because that’s something that has happened in the past and his trauma has made him extra cautious about it. Another reason he is generally cold and bitchy is to avoid becoming attached to others, because that bond could be used against him (as, in fact, ends up happening with Nicaise and later with Damen).

2 - That said, Laurent’s self-hatred is undeniable. And much of it is probably due to his guilt for the abuse he suffered. The OP mentions the paralysis that some people experience  when they are victims of a violent act. This involuntary response causes many of these people to feel guilty for not fighting back against their abusers. It can even make them feel that they gave “implicit consent” to the act, even though that’s obviously not the case. I agree that Laurent probably experienced this kind of paralysis during his uncle's assaults, but I think there's more to it than that. We are told multiple times that the Regent gains his victim's trust by making them feel loved. Special. Cared for. And I think Laurent, having lost his entire family and the only source of love he knew, fell for this deception. He truly believed that his uncle’s “attentions” were some kind of love. And he probably loved him too. 

Furthermore, we must bear in mind that the Veretians seem to have a relatively normalized view of pedophilia, since both the Regent and one of his Counselors openly prey on children. And that’s another reason why Laurent might feel like he “consented” to having sex with his uncle. (Side note: This is why Damen’s obvious disgust at the idea of taking Nicaise and referring to such behaviour as inherently abusive plays such an important role in the beginning of Laurent’s healing process). 

In this light, we can see that the perverse rumor spread by the Regent about Laurent being attracted to his brother wasn’t only intended to damage his reputation or provoke him by tarnishing Auguste’s memory. It was also a subtle way of reminding Laurent that he had indeed “commited incest”. And this makes him feel dirty. Tainted. We can see this implied here:

Auguste was free from the family’s taint. Laurent wasn’t.

Now, considering how often Laurent and the Regent’s words have double meanings, this interpretation made me read this scene as Laurent trying to make Damen feel the way he did: responsible for his own abuse, for being too weak and too scared (and, in his case, too naive) to defend himself:

And I think this other scene can also be seen as the Regent getting Laurent to secretly (and at the same time, publicly) admit that he didn’t “force” him, either:

All of this contributes to Laurent’s feelings of guilt and self-hatred. And it probably makes him feel unworthy as Auguste’s heir and worry about what he would think of him if he knew what he “did”. Even though, deep down, he knows his brother’s reaction would be similar to Damen’s. But fear is a powerful liar, and that doubt always stays with him.

3 - To protect himself after the abuse, Laurent developed an alternate personality, the infamous cast iron bitch. But he also hates that alter ego. And he especially hates the most extreme version of this personality, which comes to the surface when he meets Damianos. If we pay close attention, whenever he is verbally degrading Damen or threatening to hurt the other akielon slaves, he makes sure that only Damen can hear him, not his men or his allies. He doesn’t want them to see his darkest side. 

4 - In addition to his past and present personalities, Laurent probably hates his own body too. In this scene, we are told that the Regent begins to lose interest in his victims once they start to show signs of puberty, like having sexual responses:

That’s probably part of the reason why Laurent finds it so difficult to “let go of control” in bed. He learned to restrain himself as a child because he instinctively knew that if he didn’t, his uncle would leave him. And he finds it hard to break that habit, even when he has accepted his love for Damen.

5 - We can clearly see how this massive self-hatred explodes during Aimeric's trial, against whom Laurent pours out everything he feels to be true about himself.

6 - Finally, I believe that, despite everything, a part of Laurent never stopped loving his uncle. That is why he did not believe he would kill him and why he could easily understand that Damen still loved Kastor.

All in all, we can conclude that, with their respective complex traumas, Laurent and Damen have only begun to walk the path to healing and that they will always have scars. But at least now they can walk that path together.

[overthinker-needs-to-overshare]

It's wild to me that the idea that Laurent could have drugged Damen to get him raped never crossed Jord's mind. He just assumed it was some weird Akielon custom. On rereading, it shows how far that behavior was from the real Laurent, whom his men knew. Why didn't Damen clear up the misunderstanding at the time? Was it because he thought Jord wouldn't believe him? Or because that was the first time a Veretian had treated him like a friend? Both, I guess.

[lucky-clover-gazette]

i’m not interacting directly with the post that brought up this topic, but i will say that if laurent saw someone claiming that what he did to damen in book 1 was justified, he would start picking up chairs.

laurent takes his own moral integrity very seriously, so even if we set aside his love for damen he would absolutely say that what he (laurent) did in book 1 was unequivocally unjust. it may have been done out of revenge rather than aimless cruelty, but it would still be a source of shame for laurent to know that he 1) did those things and 2) got any kind of gratification from doing those things, even to his worst enemy. look at how he acts after aimeric’s suicide—he experiences regret and knows that he was wrong to take it as far as he did. he tells damen specifically that he’d been wrong in book 1 to treat him (damen) so cruelly, and given laurent’s high standards of integrity, i believe that he means it. that wasn’t just something he said to be nice to damen, or because they fell in love—it’s because laurent knows he went against his own moral code for it, especially considering that damen is also a morally decent person and not a monster.

when laurent treated damen how he did in book 1, he met damen’s assumed depravity with what laurent understood to be depravity of his own. laurent was being evil, on purpose, because he thought damen deserved it. but part of laurent’s growth in the series is understanding that his assumptions can sometimes be wrong, his actions were unjust regardless of damen’s status, he (laurent) was being a hypocrite, and he (laurent) needs to do better. damen learns the same lesson, just about different topics (slavery, his rose-colored perception of akielos and kastor). these character arcs contribute to damen and laurent’s “coming-of-maturity” so they can rule together as kings.

a character’s actions being unjustifiable, at some point of the story, does not mean that they are ultimately a character who stands for and represents injustice. laurent can be a good person who did bad, unjustified things. in fact the power of his characterization comes from his moral complexity. to rob him of those things is to rob yourself of fully understanding and appreciating this one-of-a-kind character and story.

part of what makes fandom great is that people can have discussions to better understand appreciate a piece of media they all enjoy. these are just my personal thoughts on the matter. some people will share them and some will disagree! i’m down for it all :)

[overthinker-needs-to-overshare]

I love the fact that Laurent's personality has two completely different sides to it, and Damen is somehow completely turned on by both of them.

[quelmdn]

Hi, I have some thoughts about the t/b dynamics in Lamen that I would like to share. Specifically, about what their experience at the Akielon inn must have meant to them. As Guion says in the first book, ‘Among the Akielon nobility, dominance is a sign of status. The slaves are all submissive.' In other words, everyone expects Damen, as the crown prince and strongest warrior, to be a top. But this doesn't only happen in Akielos. In Vere, pets fight to adopt that position during performances, so it is probably also associated with something characteristic of the strongest member of the couple. In fact, seeing Damen's large, muscular body, practically everyone in Vere assumes that he is the one who mounts Laurent and not the other way around. 

With this in mind, it's important to remember that Laurent sees himself as “inferior” to his brother, both in physical strength and in all his other qualities (a perception that his uncle has nurtured for years). This, coupled with the abuse he suffered as a child, has probably ended up negatively affecting his perception of his role as a bottom in bed. I mean, it's clear that he loves to bottom, but I think at the same time it makes him feel insecure, vulnerable. As if the only thing he's good for is being ridden (or used) by stronger men (aka “real men”). That's why the moment when Damen and Laurent switch roles at the inn must have been, in a way, liberating. By accepting that change, Damen is not only showing him his trust; in a way, he is also recognizing him as his equal (something that is reinforced later when Laurent fills his cup and he does the same in return). I think this experience is very positive for both of them because, on the one hand, it represents Damen's liberation from the social expectations he has grown up with, and on the other, it helps Laurent to leave his inferiority complex behind and accept himself as he is: : not a lesser man or a boy, but a man, a King and Damen’s equal.

Thanks for sharing thoughts on the t/b talks <3

The inn scene is SO INTERESTING... and i rlly get what you mean with 'liberating' (although we know t/b is not abt that, in that context, and thematically, can be a device just as symbolic as damen enjoying the veretian traces in delpha or laurent appreciating the aqueducts in akielos, etc).

Even if they never switch things around in the future per personal preferences (which i tend to think they very much did 🤭), it's a clear show ofthem peeking their head outside of those limiting expectations (from others, from themselves).

Plus, a bit on topic and a bit off topic.. I keep thinking how laurent was pretty sure he was going to die very soon so, and that counted as push for him to "dare" (especially the bj, of course, but also making that the flip.)

[overthinker-needs-to-overshare]

The beginning of Kings Rising: a summary

[overthinker-needs-to-overshare]

I'm sad to hear of the passing of actor Björn Andrésen. I always thought that he closely resembled my idea of Laurent.

What about you all? Is there any celebrity who resembles your idea of Laurent, Damen, or other characters from CP?

[overthinker-needs-to-overshare]

The way Damen goes from ‘I speak your language better than you speak mine, sweetheart’ in the first book to ‘Nice accent’ in the second never ceases to amuse me.

It's a subtle but effective demonstration of how his perception of Laurent has changed.

[overthinker-needs-to-overshare]

Lol, this showed up on my feed and it made me think of Lamen, I'm so doomed. 😭

[overthinker-needs-to-overshare]

A scene that struck me even more upon rereading was the one in which Damen refuses to rape Nicaise.

After his struggle with Govart, Damen is finally fully aware of what his captivity entails. And he is genuinely terrified. The possibility of being raped for the entertainment of the Verecian court is worse than anything he could have imagined. Therefore, he makes the difficult decision to swallow his pride, kneel before Laurent, and kiss his boot. He chooses to show obedience, hoping that it will free him from having to enter that arena again.

And then Audin arrives and offers Nicaise so that Damen can “perform” with him. And this is Damen's reaction:

He gives up. He chooses to disobey, regardless of the consequences. He is basically saying, “I'd rather be raped in front of my enemy's entire court than hurt an innocent child.”

[overthinker-needs-to-overshare]

[overthinker-needs-to-overshare]

Oh, Jokaste, dear, you're not ready for BOTTOMIANOS.

[overthinker-needs-to-overshare]

Hello, lover

Let's talk about the infamous “Hello, lover” and everything Laurent did afterwards. My personal interpretation is that, at that moment, Laurent was afraid both of being wrong about Damen and of being right about Damen.

If he was wrong about him (i.e., if Damen was only pretending to be an honorable man and to care about him), that would mean that Laurent had allowed himself to trust and love again only to be betrayed a second time. And thinking about that possibility must have been awful.

On the other hand, if he was right about Damen (if he really was the man Laurent had allowed himself to believe he was), that would mean he had enslaved, tortured, and humiliated a decent man, the kind of man his brother was. And at the same time, it would mean that he had found love in the very man who had killed his brother, the same man he had hated for years. Having used that hatred to keep himself alive for so long, the idea of losing it must also have been terrifying.

Consequently, Laurent chooses to assume that he was wrong about Damen and treat him like the monster he wanted him to be from the beginning. In fact, he tries to force Damen to become that monster by employing the cruel tactics he learned from his uncle. It is with this goal in mind that he:

- tells Damen that he only slept with him out of convenience and mocks him by repeating the words he said in a vulnerable moment (just as his uncle later repeats Laurent's words as a child when he asked not to be left alone).

- forces Damen to watch as prisoners are whipped, each lash reminding him of his own torture while his people (unaware of the true situation) applaud with approval (just as the Regent subtly reminded Laurent of his own abuse while correcting him in front of the Court and Council).

- chooses Isander (who looks slightly like Damen) to serve him, in order to remind him of his own enslavement (this backfired, though, because Damen just got jealous, lol).

- uses every opportunity to remind Damen that he hates him for killing his brother.

However, Laurent's plan to convince himself that Damen is a bad person who doesn't really care about him fails miserably, because despite everything, Damen continues to show that he is a good man and that he cares about him. For example, when he rescues and treats kindly the Veretian soldier who was being tormented by Makedon's men, or when he saves Laurent's life (again) in Marlas.

And then we get to this moment:

This is the first critical point in Laurent's change of attitude, because it is when he realizes that even he does not believe the theory of the ‘dishonest Damen’ that he so desperately tries to convince himself of. This is when self-deception begins to crumble irretrievably.

The second critical point comes when he confronts Jokaste and she accurately describes how Damen makes love. It's like hearing her say, “No, silly, he wasn't faking his gentleness, he's always like that.”

And the third (and final) critical point comes when Laurent is comforting Damen and asks him something like, ‘Well, then you just want to fuck me again, right?’. And Damen replies something like, ‘No, I want to marry you’.

And that’s when we get to this:

This is, for me, one of the most beautiful scenes in the Captive Prince books.

Here Laurent is desperate to be able to trust people again. In particular, he wants to trust Damen, he wants to believe that his feelings are genuine and not a ploy to manipulate him, as his uncle did. But he is too afraid to expose himself to that risk again. So, when he can no longer deny the evidence that Damen trusts him, despite everything he has been through, despite everything Laurent has done to him, he is genuinely astonished. He admires Damen's ability to continue trusting people and wishes he could do the same. Which leads me to find a second interpretation of his phrase, hidden within the first:

'How can I trust you, after what my own uncle did to me?

And to this, Damen gives the perfect answer. Because what he says about Laurent is also true of him. Damen is not false, as Laurent has feared all this time. He is true. He is probably the truest man Laurent has ever met, besides Auguste. And at this point, there is no doubt that if Laurent gave him his heart, he would treat it tenderly.

[overthinker-needs-to-overshare]

How Laurent summarized what happened to him in Fortaine:

‘It was nothing*. There was a knife fight. I got free, and Guion and I came to an arrangement’.

*the ‘nothing’ in question:

- Ambushed and captured

- Tied up with a dislocated shoulder

- Considered suicide

- Threatened with mutilation

- Tortured for an hour

- Beat a man to death while badly injured