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@pandemoniumonwheels
I haven't read The Wheel of Time, I have no idea how I skipped it at high school while reading pretty much every fantasy novel I could find. Anyway, I’ve read enough fantasy to know it is an amazing story and I’m already obsessed with the TV series. I can’t even express how much I enjoy watching it right now. So this blog is basically me enjoying The Wheel of Time for the first time. Thank you.
Real question are there people out there who dont know how to properly use a firearm I am asking this unironically its very intuitive to me but that may just be because I was raised in appalachia do you guys not know how to reload aim and shoot properly
i just don't think that people should have to disclose their deepest and most life-ruining traumas as a requirement to write about sensitive topics
well if this is the only thing
Hannibal (2013-2015)
One of the crew members said it took six people holding the door up on the other side to keep Mads from breaking it down
@gothiccharmschool
Look at my feral, blood-covered emotional support cannibal.
Look at my feral,
blood-covered emotional
support cannibal.
Beep boop! I look for accidental haiku posts. Sometimes I mess up.
This piece from the Collider interview does make it feel more like it wasn't just a shock value choice---but a choice Sophie made as well due to disinterest in the rest of Siuan's storyline. It's....not quite at the point of being a balm to my senses but it's getting there
Rafe's "But she doesn't have enough to do in the books for someone like Sophie Okonedo to do justice" argument would be so much more believable, if just for starters there wasn't a in-narrative plot conceit that would have justified re-casting the actress, if it was absolutely just an actor availability issue. They could have recast with another brilliant, talented unknown who could capture the spirit of the character, and kept telling her story. JUST FOR STARTERS
But it would have been so much more believable if he hadn't LITERALLY STOLEN PART OF SIUAN'S PLOTLINE FOR THE REST OF THE SERIES, and given it to his white lead instead, last season, re: coping with lack of purpose after being 'stilled'. That should have been the biggest red flag, I just kept tricking myself into thinking it would be a narrative parallel, instead of a narrative burglary. It would be so much more believable if Siuan's actual narrative for the rest of the series wasn't just about her playing washerwoman but about her being an political power behind the scenes and subtly whipping the Salidar rebels into shape, clawing back from utter despair and the disdain of everyone around her,and being a crucial mentor for Egwene, (sometime they're stealing and giving to another character, again)... except in S3 they chose to portray Egwene as actively disdainful of her, and Siuan as spectacularly inept politically and practically deserving of her own downfall in how badly she bungled everything.
It would be so much more believable if Siuan's actual narrative wasn't about her wanting to drag Elaida down because the coup was about LEGITIMATELY IRRECONCIABLY POLITICAL DIFFERENCES and they hadn't chosen to have Siuan toy with Elaida's exact position about caging Rand in order to, again, serve Moiraine's storyline last season, only to reverse course without a single explanation of what changed her mind, and have it not even be relevant because Elaida's seizing power was more about their petty personal beefs, than the fate of the world, in a way it wasn't to the same degree in the book. It would be so much much more believable if we hadn't had to sit through three goddamn seasons of invented scenes featuring Liandrin, who was a two-bit antagonist in the book getting endless screentime, backstory, and motivation (including at the expense of other characters including Nynaeve getting robbed of her confrontation with Moghedien in the finale) proving how capable they are of coming up with things for an actress to do, if they want to keep her around... Or even worse, Maksim, conveniently played by Rafe's boyfriend getting plotlines, character development, and practically as big a role in the Battle of the Two Rivers as Perrin himself, (including that being at the expense of another black queer character, Ihvon) when he was a glorified background extra in the books who died off-page. And that's not even getting into Moiraine being treated far more as a protagonist and getting significantly expanded development, screentime, etc. (A decision I absolutely adored, for the record, but it's hard to deny that often seemed to come at the cost of Siuan's own individual narrative, including literally as I already said when they stole Siuan's stilling plot to give to her, and something made even more blatantly clear when Siuan's death scene was used as character motivation for Moiraine.) It would be so much more believable if the show hadn't inexplicably decided to spare Leane from the same fate, apparently to give her part of Siuan's narrative too, when she was an even more irrelevant character in the books, whose narrative had even bigger problems re; misogyny. At the end of the day, it would be so much more believable if they hadn't demonstrated time and again just HOW MUCH they are capable of altering the narrative and giving greater depth and empathy to a number of characters, and changing their narrative role within the story, when they want to. They absolutely cannot use 'but in the books' as an excuse when they've repeatedly, gleefully chopped and remixed the narrative in service of the story they wanted to prioritize telling. Siuan's story clearly wasn't a part of that set of priorities. Fine. But they absolutely could have come to Sophie with bigger ideas rather than getting her approval for the character's slaughter based on their own lack of imagination for how her storyline in the books could have been enriched and transformative, or again, gotten her blessing for the role to be recast, if she was totally unable to commit to it. The failure to do either is a DECISION they made, not one they were forced into, and they need to own that, as well as the fact that their priorities have frequently seemed to not include their black actors, to the same degree. I could go on, but I need to go wash dishes. It's just shitty writing that treats a complex queer black woman's story as ultimately disposable and worthy of being chopped into pieces and redistributed, with a vague promise of her maybe coming back later in only her narrative capacity as Moiraine's love interest, as if that's sufficient compensation, and I don't believe a word of it.
Okay. So, the thing I was spoiled on was Siuan’s death. So it’s hard to say what my actual reaction is to that. Because I knew it was coming. But one thing is for sure: I think it's stupid and I think the justifications that Rafe gives for it are stupid too. But to be honest, book!Siuan has been dead a while, and they only ever let glimpses of her out anyways.
Last season, people got mad at those of us who were angry with what the show did to Siuan's character-- making her literally the opposite of her book character and using her storyline as an accessory to Moiraine's rather than her own-- saying 'wait, you'll see/you can't keep everything in the books/trust the process/you guys never like anything the show does'. Many of us felt less enamored with the show and the fandom after that, some haven't been posting and some haven't been watching.
I hate saying we told you so, but we did. They killed off Siuan, a character whose biggest storyline comes after she was deposed, not before, to give Moiraine the reaction that lets her 'kill' Lanfear. They decided that everything Siuan does after she is deposed-- guiding Egwene, becoming a mentor to her and a secret force of support to her, telling a story about how a woman who has lost everything comes back and finds a purpose-- is less important than finding a will for Moiraine to do something that she had already planned to do.
And let's talk about Moiraine for a second, without the Twisted Doorway, what was Moiraine's cutting Lanfear's throat really worth?? That is the exact same injury that Lanfear healed herself from in season two, she isn't out of commission, and if she is, that's just another inconsistency they've introduced. As for Moiraine without the Tower of Ghenjei to be trapped in, I doubt this is actually 'her death' or we would have had more of a reaction and them talking about it in the actor conversation afterwards. So, we have Moiraine, who has hardly any story left, alive and not trapped and Siuan, who has plenty of story left, dead. I don't know who they will have fill Siuan's role if they fill it at all, whether it will be Leane or Moiraine, or if Moiraine will maybe take Cadsuane's role. But this sucks, completely cutting off Siuan's storyline to add to Moiraine's story in such a minor way. I think it would be horrible to do regardless of who played Moiraine and Siuan, but I think that it must be said that it is an especially bad look that they have seemingly extended the white actress/character's storyline while prematurely cutting off the black actress/character's storyline.
As for Rafe's justifications that Siuan's story after her deposition is 'not at the forefront' and that he wanted Sophie Okonedo to be able to have a big moment before leaving, what complete fucking bullshit. As I've already discussed Siuan's most meaningful plot was ahead of her, Siuan with the wondergirls in Salidar especially Egwene was iconic and important. And Sophie's big moment and monologue could have easily come before her being stilled, not her being killed. And even if the show felt like they couldn't have justified keeping an actress like Sophie on for more seasons cost wise, the book gave them the perfect out--after being stilled, Siuan is de-aged, she could have easily been recast with a cheaper actress. The truth is that the showrunners and writers never respected Siuan as a character outside of her relationship with Moiraine and don't really care about a lot of elements of the story that are important.
I want to be very clear that my issue with the finale is not about Siuan no longer being on the show. Or about wanting more Siuaraine (although I *always* want more Siuaraine). I was prepared for Moiraine to go away and to lose Siuaraine as a focus. I could handle Sophie needing to leave the show and them putting Siuan on a farm stilled somewhere until the last season or last episode or whatever. That would have been disappointing, but I would not be disavowing the show’s decisionmaking like this.
Instead they took a character - a middle-aged black lesbian - who is supposed to have a powerful character arc about overcoming adversity when it looks like all is lost and finding new ways to succeed from the very darkest depths, killed her to motivate her white partner’s emotional growth, and then showed her dead, headless body on the ground. A character many of us have come to really love because of both the books and her relationship with Moiraine (who on the show is a main character).
They set up this relationship as foundational to the entire show, to *saving the world.* The literal showrunner called this relationship the heartbeat of the show. They laid groundwork that could be used for incredible pay off in future arcs that would be emotionally fulfilling and true to the books but also wouldn’t need to take up much time. And then they dashed all of it.
And yes, we have another lesbian ship developing, but this wasn’t just about lesbians it was also about showing middle-aged lesbians in a deep, decades-long committed relationship of the sort we never see in this type of setting. Plus Avilayne is going to get complicated. It’s queer rep but it’s different queer rep, and the idea of like “look other sapphics exist!” doesn’t make up for what they did to Siuan.
there’s a big difference between “i’m sad because a character i was emotionally invested in was killed off” and “this character’s death served no purpose, was used for shock value, and is the product of bad writing and i’m upset about that”
The funny thing about show-onlines defending Siuan's death by saying "She never even wanted to fight the shadow anyway, she only wanted to be Moiraine's wife, I'm glad she's dead and doesn't have to fight a fight she never wanted to fight." is that it exemplifies just how poorly the show has characterized Siuan from the start as nothing but Moiraine's girlfriend.
Siuan Sanche in the books wasn't a weepy little woman who wanted nothing except to be Moiraine's little housewife while Moiraine went out gallivanting and having adventures. Siuan Sanche in the books was an ambitious woman who opposed the Dark One with everything she had, who fashioned her whole life to be an arrow directed right at the Dark One's heart, who had a moral clarity and purpose to her that the show never understood.
I'll say it again, when it comes purely to writing women's motivations rather than anything else, Robert Jordan was feminist in a way that Rafe Judkins cannot even dream of. He knew how to write women being motivated by something other than domesticity or sexual abuse, and I can't say the same about Rafe.
Three quotes about Siuan from the book to illustrate what I mean:
“I think I actually understand you now, Siuan Sanche. You are a woman of honor. It’s just that nobody else’s requirements of you can ever be more harsh or more demanding than your own requirements of yourself. You owe such a self-imposed debt to your own sense of duty that I doubt any mortal being could pay it back.” “You’re a driven woman, Siuan Sanche. Driven to save the world from itself." “But only after you feel the world can care for itself. I won’t agree to it before then, Siuan. You’ve given your life to something. I’ll see that you survive through it; I hope that once you’re done, you’ll be willing to give your life to something else instead.”
I want to apologise to everyone I tried to convince to watch the show. I hope you didn't listen. I really believed it is a different story this time. My bad for not finding out sooner that one of the writers was involved in Clexa's end. A mistake I will not make again [*]
Hey so I’m planning on watching the show soon, can you explain what this is about?
Not to spoil anyone who wants to watch it, so I won't be putting any details, but I wouldn't encourage any person that cares about queer stories to watch the show beyond season 1. If you don't like how Clexa was handled, do not go there, it's pretty much the same history. The show promoted itself as queer, attracting a lot of queer audience, but in the last season they did their queer fans dirty. To put it lightly.
Another issue is that they put shock value above certain character's arc from the books, and reduced said character to a love interest, with no plot of their own, other than to serve as a plot device to someone else. And well, that's what TV does so often with women that it became boring.
Show has also some issues with colourism, which it unfortunately doesn't resolve, quite the contrary.
So, if you care about any of that, don't watch it. If that's not something that is a deal breakerfor you, you can still have a good time. I used to recommend this show as a refreshing take on women and queerness in the fantasy genre, but with ending of its 3rd season it proves to be same, old, boring trope as always. So I don't want to mislead. It's a decent show, with beautiful costumes, but has lot of issues that are becoming more and more annoying with time.
And frankly, the reaction of Rafe Judkins (the writer) proves he doesn't even understand why what they did to one of the characters in s3 was so wrong.
Show promised to be one thing, and it turns out it was a lie from the very beginning. If a possibility of having queer, sapphic stories in fantasy doesn't sound tempting to you, you're probably safe. If it does, don't step into that trap.
idk if people are being intentionally obtuse or what but the problem is not that Siuan was killed off - it's the WAY she was killed off
it's not that she was killed, it's that she was betrayed, humiliated, dragged like an object, brutalized, and given the textbook-most-'here's how you dehumanize a human being' dehumanizing death ALL! so the camera could zoom in on Rosamund Pike screaming and crying
that's it
they took the black lesbian character and in that instant, made it crystal clear that her only purpose, value, and point after all this time was to be Moiraine's Girlfriend. in that instant, every second of screen time, every offscreen story beat, every interview or teaser hyping up and praising this character and her relationship, was all recontextualized. all along, there was never a Siuan Sanche in WOT On Prime - only Moiraine's Girlfriend - and now there never will be
it's not an overreaction to be disgusted by the way this character's death was handled. it's not an overreaction to have it sour your outlook on a show that went out of its way to raise a queer relationship from subtext to text - explicitly to give it the care and depth that many felt was missing from the books - only to put Tara in front of the window just so Willow could go off the rails again like 25 god damn years later but with a heaping helping of Disposable Black Girlfriend on top
it would in fact have been possible to kill this black lesbian character in a conscientious and tasteful fashion - even if it was still upsetting, baffling, stupid, or wasteful - and the fact is that the choice was made otherwise
some people saw the writing on the wall and those of us who didn't feel not just like idiots but betrayed idiots too
sure I'm certain some people are just upset their favorite ship got whacked and haven't examined it any deeper than that but it is deeper than that unfortunately!
I'm going to copy paste what I said on Discord, because I don't have the energy to rephrase this and I intend after this to move on with my life and enjoy my family, so.
[Spoilers for the Finale of the Wheel of Time Season 3]
The thing is. This death won't affect whether this will be a good fantasy show or not. After all, they wanted the new GoT, and that show did a lot worse. I'm sure many viewers (even among book readers!) won't be bothered by this, and the writers & co will probably cut a bunch of stuff from the books and still make a TV show that somehow works. A lot of people who are now watching because the show is getting mainstream will probably still enjoy it.
The part that I'm mad about is that WoT deliberately positioned itself as a queer-friendly & queer-positive show. Rafe had *multiple* interviews with queer content creators. They had a *major* feature article in THR just to talk about queerness. They basically told queer people that they were safe. On top of that, the WoT books are overall a very hopeful fantasy story: yes people go through very tough times, but almost none of the main characters died, and it's very much a light against darkness story. It resembles a lot to LotR on that aspect, and it's very different to doom and gloomy GoT in which people would die as soon as you get attached to them.
So when they *decided* to make Moiraine & Siuan canon and to promote it and hype it, then yes, wlw folks thought that maybe finally they'll get to be among the heroes of a fantasy story and get an interesting story across multiple seasons that will then get an hopeful ending, which I personally never got to experience before. But turns out we won't. And that's what I don't like, because it feels like we once again got played for drama and at the end we will be seen as "unreasonable fans dictating what a story should be".
No but it’s just the fact that this show deliberately gained the trust of a large queer audience, took our time and money and views and support, then made us watch the non-plot-justified torture and beheading of a beloved sapphic woman of colour in gruesome detail—WITHOUT due process (Siuan was literally told to her face that she’d been sentenced before she could even advocate for herself)—in a time when our rights are actively being threatened and many of us are already living in a constant state of anxiety.
I know the writers and showrunners think they’ve built this fantasy world where racism and homophobia don’t exist, but every single one of its viewers lives in a world where these things do. And to gain our trust and make us finally feel excited about the promise of a well-realised story just to sideline us, kill us, and play us for fools…
Man. I’m just done investing in shows.
okay. so. rafe judkins. im gonna need you to explain to me how you're gonna do salidar now like im a child. here are the crayons. you have 5 minutes.
To think I was happy I'm getting a season finale as a gift for my 30th birthday. What a fool
come play. you know what this is about
