It's been... almost a year since we created this sideblog. And I just realized we don't really have an intro for this blog, so I decided to create one.
We use the name Watcher collectively, and they/them pronouns. Bodily we're 22.
This blog was created with the sole purpose of archiving plural comics, posts on medical and non-medical plurality, plural resources, posts on syscourse, and to see how syscourse evolves and developes over time.
Who are we?
We're a mixed-origin plural system, originally traumagenic but we've gained new members other ways, and because we have traumagenic, endogenic, and willogenic members we've decided to keep origins this way. We suspect we have an undiagnosed dissociative disorder, most likely OSDD. Because of this, we sometimes call ourselves an OSDD system.
We use this blog to reblog general system, plural, comics, or syscourse posts. We will sometimes debate in the syscourse tag, especially anti endos, or sometimes respond to drama.
Syscourse stance
We're pro endo, anti harassment, and pro kindness. Nowadays we lean more neutral, but we support the idea that endogenic systems are systems, plural, and just sharing their experiences.
This blog was created to separate plural stuff from our main account, @watcherwingedcat. Especially when it comes to syscourse. We're not professionals in any way on systems, but we've been researching both DID and dissociative disorders in general since we were thirteen. We've read lots of studies, papers, research, and conclusions from professionals, and we're yet to find a specialist in dissociative disorders, mental health professional, psychiatrist or psychologist who says that non-dissociative systems aren't real.
Our system name is The Void council, we don't really identify with any origin label tough, as we think it only creates division amongst the community. In total, there's twelve of us, in order of formation:
Charlie, or Moss, the host. Bodily 22 years old. He/they/it pronouns. Dog therian (greyhound), jackrabbit therian, barn owl therian, watcherkin, winged catkin, moonhearted and phantomhearted. Child of the moon and lab experiment archetype. Aroace, genderfaun and nonbinary.
Orion, protector. A couple of thousand years old. It/he pronouns. Watcherkin and raptorkin. Aroace and agender. He won't post as regularly as I do, and we don't have a system to sign off our posts, so sometimes I'll be posting and sometimes he will post.
Theo, little. Around 7 or 9 years old. He doesn't really post here, as he doesn't like social media. He/him pronouns, a fox hybrid/kenomimi.
Clementine, positivity holder. 24 years old. She/her pronouns. Human and questioning horsehearted.
Leo, a Leonardo Hamato fictive from ROTTMNT, persecutor. 16 years old. He/it pronouns.
Nero, protector, dissociation holder and co-host. Shapeshifter, took a long while to form, as he was stuck trying to convey some sort of identity. Now he's pretty chill, handles stressful situations and dissociation. We don't really know their role, he's just there to block memories and emotions when needed. Voidkin, ageless. They/them pronouns.
Lana, social protector. She likes cheeseburgers, we think she's around 22-23 years old. Human, she/her pronouns.
Angel, an Angel Dust fictive, emotional protector. He's around 35 years old. Pretty chill, uses he/she pronouns but generally doesn't care a lot about gender.
Kinger, a Kinger fictive. Acts a lot like a dad. He's an old man, don't know exactly his age but maybe even older than Orion, he/him pronouns. Doesn't front often.
Vance, a Vox fictive. We don't know exactly his age (around his thirties), and he's pretty source separate. An anxious mess most of the time, age regresses pretty easily. He/him but doesn't care too much about gender.
Nico, a nonhuman headmate. He's a black fox, probably an adolescent or a child (acts 18 or younger). He/him pronouns. Doesn't talk much when fronting, even less not fronting.
Caine, a Caine fictive from TADC. He looks a lot like his source, and he's source-conected with Kinger, both from the same canon. He/him pronouns.
We're neurodivergent, with autism and ADHD, both diagnosed. Because of this, sometimes we might read the tone of a post wrong, and we may reply with tone tags.
We don't really have a DNI (as they don't work), just don't be an asshole. We're pretty neutral on everything surrounding drama, but we have a general stance on being nice toward others and don't judge other's lives or business in general.
When it comes to syscourse, we're endo friendly (pro endo, leaning neutral because we understand both sides) as we thought we were endogenic at first but with time we discovered we had a traumagenic origin and we're now mixed origins. Generally, we think the drama and in-fighting is pointless and in general rude.
wonder if others feel pressure in head based on front .
main front pressure is always present , but others conditional . can communicate with anyone regardless of if front or not , so proximity determine where pressure is . and yes , someone far enough back literally feel like pressure in airspace behind head .
for kossai none of this is especially intense or painful , genuinely tune out main front pressure most of time . hellsbands also get pressure , but say all above head - think that difference is neat ! wonder if that also speak to front mechanisms of both this court and hellsbands' legion respectively , and if other collectives have similar thoughts .
We don't actively feel pressure so much as we do a tingling or presence. Using similar colors, this is sort of how it feels for us when we're front/cofront/observing.
Our observers feel like they're "behind" us in a way so we habitually roll our eyes back or look "behind" us when speaking with them.
I have still yet to see anyone explain how endos/willos/tulpas etc are ableist in a way that is not easy refutable or without making stuff the fuck up like. Come on. You’d think if all of anti-endo’s arguments were that weak they’d have come up with better ones or just given up but noooooo. They keep bullshitting lmao
hi! I've been questioning if I might have DID or another CDD for a while now, and most of the time I get stuck on things such as "multiple distinct personality states" or "discontinuity" (in sense of self, agency, etc. more the "discontinuity" part than its related things if it makes sense)
I see alters described as a lot of different things: voices in the head, different people, different parts of oneself, different moods with amnesia between them etc
basically what confuses me is I don't know what is an alter after all this time doing research to find out if what I have might fit. in all this I do have a therapist, I am diagnosed with CPTSD and dissociative amnesia (along other apparently unrelated things, such as depression)
what do alters feel like to you? how did you first find out that you had them? was it through therapy or your own realisation?
sorry it's a lot. I get very confused very easily 😓
It's okay, there's absolutely no need to apologise. If we don't understand something, we'll just ask! We get it - we often think much faster than we can type, so our brain will be a million kilometres away while our hands are trying to catch up. Don't worry about it ❤️
If you're questioning being disordered in general, don't worry about which one right now. Focus on what you are feeling and experiencing at this moment, what you're dealing with today. Put an accurate label on it after. One thing at a time :)
--Our experiences may be triggering, so please skip to further down if you need!--
We discovered we were a system because of a mental breakdown. We'd been having a lot of problems for quite a few years. In and out of mental health places, frequently changing clinicians. We felt like we were going "insane". Like we were utterly "hysterical", and "a psychopath". (In quotes, because that's what we thought at the time, based on our knowledge of mental health then. We have ASPD traits, and don't experience psychotic symptoms anymore.)
We were being told a lot of different things by clinicians, and struggling with a lot of problems. Told we were trans because we'd been "exposed" to queer people and that we actually just had anorexia (we didn't but they made us believe we did.) That we must have Bipolar because everyone in our family does (they didn't). We were severely malnourished, and had fallen into autistic burnout. We didn't even know we were autistic at the time.
It was like everything shit in our life was catching up to us, all at the same time. There's a lot more we don't remember. Severe depression, anxiety, regular NSSI and SI. One bad thing had happened, and it triggered a chain reaction that continued for years. We were utterly desperate to find something, anything that examined what was going on.
It felt like our mind and body were split into different chunks. Sets of emotions and feelings that had voices, which would scream at each other every day. Conflicting and even complete opposite opinions and wants. A multitude of different thoughts running through our head all at the same time.
So, we wrote it down. That we felt like we had different "sides" to us, each with their own chunk of wants and needs and feelings and thoughts and voices and names. That it felt like we'd be "possessed" or "taken over" randomly. And we watched hands belonging to a body that wasn't ours type out different journal entries over months. Like we were watching somebody else describe exactly how we were feeling and what was going on.
And then, we looked it up. "it feels like I have different sides of me with different names etc." What a surprise, dissociative disorders came up. Long story short, research and asking people, thought we had OSDD1, found out more about dissociative amnesia, realised we have DID, and eventually, diagnosed.
There are many different things in our life that pointed towards it. "Roleplay" in childhood where it felt like we literally were the people we were "pretending" to be, it was real to us. "Imaginary friends" who would talk to us, take control of our body, and didn't go away. Doing creative writing almost nonstop everyday for most of our life, because there were so many people in our head that wanted to escape. Severe maladaptive daydreaming (would be disordered) every single morning and night that essentially took complete control over our life. Extreme interest in anything related to possession, mind control, multiple souls, etc. because it "felt like me", because we related to being out of control of our own body. Hearing fictional characters from things we engaged with talking to us in our head, that we described as "being able to hear them say something in their voice". Having 'delusions' related to specific characters, like thinking we have the power to control the wind and rain, or being able to communicate with animals. Etc.
--Hopefully, that answers your questions about our experiences! We found out because we looked up our symptoms, and asked people about the disorder. The medical professionals we were seeing at the time only made us worse, unfortunately. Except for this one absolutely amazing nurse who would do home visits, she would listen to us and help talk us through our problems and symptoms. Encouraged us to get out of the house by taking us to parks we loved. She was by far one of the best we've ever seen, and we've seen many.
We might describe an alter of ours as, a collection of thoughts, emotions, feelings, behaviours, opinions, memories, preferences, etc. specific to them, that has its own voice, its own name, and its own identity. Our system is made up of these little "collections", a collection of these collections. Sometimes, one collection pushes their way into controlling the body.
Each collection has its own presence in the back of the mind, watching and waiting for when it's needed or wanted. The presences all feel different to each other in ways that aren't really explainable. If a gatekeeper wants a specific collection to front, they follow the "presence" and "grab" onto the collection, then pull it to front. Each collection has its own spot in the back of the mind, in the headspace.
Sometimes, they move around. Sometimes, some are loud (stronger 'presence feeling'), and sometimes, some are quiet (lesser 'presence feeling'). Like each collection has its own different piano note constantly playing. Sometimes, some notes are played with one of the pedals. Some of the notes share the same octave, some share chords, some share the same scale/s. Some are right next to each other. So, some of the collections share certain feelings and characteristics. But in the end, they are all different notes.
Sometimes, the piano gets damaged. Sometimes, there are broken keys and strings. Sometimes, somebody throws the piano out the window, or beats it up with a hammer. It's still a piano with keys in the end, just looks a bit different. And sometimes, the piano gets repaired. :)
Also, we hate piano 😄
This is only our experience, though. CDDs have a massive range of experiences. People will feel differently. So if you don't feel this way, it doesn't mean you don't have a CDD! All of what you mentioned can be an alter. We'll try to explain what the DSM is talking about, with its wording.
"Disruption of identity characterized by two or more distinct personality states, which may be described in some cultures as an experience of possession. The disruption in identity involves marked discontinuity in sense of self and sense of agency, accompanied by related alterations in affect, behavior, consciousness, memory, perception, cognition, and/or sensory-motor functioning."
"Disruption of identity" is switching (or influences/intrusions). So, it's saying you switch between, or are influenced by, "distinct personality states"
"Distinct personality states" are the "alterations in affect, behavior, consciousness, memory, perception, cognition, and/or sensory-motor functioning". One distinct personality state has specific emotions, behaviours, memories, thinking, and functioning. This makes up an "identity" or "personality". Another state will have a different (distinct) personality.
So, it's saying there are states with differences between them, who influence each other or switch with each other. That "disrupts" identity, because it's a different identity.
The "discontinuity in sense of self and sense of agency" is similar. "Discontinuity" is essentially, changing or change. Each identity has its own "sense of self", essentially meaning who it is and what it wants. So, what you want and who you are changes a lot.
"Sense of agency" is essentially the feeling of being in control, and making your own choices. Each identity has its own 'control', separate to others. They will make their own choices. It's often experienced as depersonalisation! So it's saying, there are changes in the feeling of being in control of your own body and choices.
Rewritten, it could say; "There are at least two different states. Each state has its own identity, which is a group of emotions, feelings, memories, and thoughts. States will switch between each other, having separate control to each other. They have their own idea of who they are and what they want."
But even simplified, this can show in many different ways.
Some changes in control will be complete: identities can't see each other, and have no memory of each other. Some changes in control will be partial: identities are aware of each other, but when they aren't in control, they feel completely disconnected. Some changes in control feel more like "changing what an identity experiences" instead of "changing identities".
Identity differences between states vary greatly. Some are so similar, they are identical. Some are opposites. Some share certain characteristics, and not others. Some might have their own names, and others might not. Some remember what other states do, and others don't. Etc.
So, there could be a system with many states that have complete identities, as well as many states without complete identities. Some systems have one state with a complete identity, and the rest don't. Some systems only have states with complete identities. DID typically has states who have quite big changes in control, self, and identities. OSDD1 less so: all states might be almost identical, like one identity but at different ages. What people call their states (parts of one person, self-states, voices, alters, people, moods, etc.) is just up to them.
It's the same with dissociative amnesia, although that's a different thing. Think of "emotional amnesia" being the base, because of the trauma. DID will always have more amnesia than emotional amnesia. OSDD1 doesn't need to have more than emotional amnesia. So, DID might often be "I can't remember anything about this event", while OSDD1 is usually "I can remember this event, but I don't remember how I feel about it".
You don't need to constantly have blackout switching for DID, by the way. It's a frustrating myth. The ICD explains this better than the DSM. If you have a diagnosis of dissociative amnesia, that fits the amnesia criteria for DID.
What we suggest doing is: well, first, tall to your therapist. We're just a guy on the internet who likes talking about ourself (joke). Please discuss how you're feeling about this with your therapist ❤️
Other than that, make a journal. When we say journal, we don't mean something fancy or detailed. We find it easier to say we're just "logging something". You can even put "I don't want to journal" - that's still journaling. You write one word? Great. You do it once a week? Great. You lose it in your notes app for a month? Great. Do it.
"I feel like this about my friend, but a part of me feels this way instead." "I want to buy muffins, but a part of me wants to buy coffee". "I want a car, but a part of me wants a dog." Does thinking this way mean you have alters? No, it doesn't have to. But, if you have a thought, with your own associated feelings, and then you have a different thought, with its own associated feelings that are separate to yours, then listen to it. Don't try to force them to speak, but give them the space to have a voice. (Also write when you realise you've forgotten something. Think about what you did earlier today. Do you remember choosing and putting on clothes, or do you just know that you got dressed this morning? Do you remember thinking about breakfast, pulling out the breakfast food, making it, and eating it? Or do you just know you had breakfast? Write it down!)
Another thing - parts do exist in PTSD and CPTSD. The parts are associated specifically with the traumatic events, and are closer to dissociation and a set of feelings than an identity. That's fine! Say, your depression is constantly there, right? But are there seemingly unexplainable highs and lows? Do these highs and lows come with anything else, like certain behaviours, thoughts, and amnesia? And do these identity sets reappear? Well........ :P
Wow this was a lot. We meant to keep it simple. In short - the DSM uses annoying language. We recommend this if you're interested, it may be easier. And there's this document here that covers a lot of assessing stuff.
Diagnostic Information for Trauma-Related Dissociation And Complex Dissociative Disorders - By Guardians System This document contains pos
Keep in mind, all of this is our personal views and opinions and experience. Other people will think differently! We've probably missed a few things, and gotten something wrong. But hopefully, all this can help you out a bit. You're more than welcome to send further asks about anything ❤️
I'm a admin in a very accepting pony town server. I know the owner very well and they are pro endogenic. Recently the server wasn't as active and I tried to chat w people online. There was a guy, let's call him shark ig. So I, shark and a third person were chatting and I said "I really wanna willo [insert character]". The text tone switch so fast. Shark said "You can't create alters?" And i responded "I can tho, I'm willogenic". Bro went silent and started bombing "You can't" "Endos aren't real" "only people with DID are systems" "you can't become a system" etc etc. I was like, laughing so hard over him trying to fight me about how I'm totally not real. I just told him he is breaking the rules, he said "but endos are still aren't real, you need trauma". I told the owner, we laughed about it and then banned the guy for breaking rules of discrimination. It was so goddamn funny dude.
If I could add my two cents into endo syscourse, it’s a valid form of plurality as of right now because we very famously have very little idea how plurality or DID work.
Like, I do agree that the most likely explanation for DID is childhood trauma causing the child to develop “new personalities” to cope, but like. If that’s the case, we don’t really have much evidence that it has to be preceded by trauma. Kids make up imaginary personas and friends all the time, and when your mind is so bendy as a little kid, who knows what’ll happen.
Unstable identity in general is a common symptom of trauma, yes, but it’s also a common symptom of. Y’know. Being a child. I do agree that trauma definitely heightens the chance for plurality significantly, but like. Especially given how little we understand about all forms of plurality, it’s completely incorrect to say that having alters or facets or whatever you prefer can only be caused by trauma.
everybody jokes about plural comics always having the all black ominous figure with funky eyes/mouths but. may i propose to you the mysterious grey figure with a star shaped head
Excuse me for being dead for years. This isn’t my “I’m coming back to syscourse” post, though I might occasionally post some things now and then.
I have a lot of concern about the current syscourse environment.
I was mainly active in the early 2020s (2021-2023), and it…really hasn’t changed much since then. I do have some points to make, though.
I hear the plural (not just CDD) community is getting more studies. That’s nice. I hope that goes well. I’ve read some of the articles already available now that I’ve been able to actually find them, and it all certainly seems promising; although there are some points I could identify as slightly incorrect, they weren’t relevant.
A lot of people I remember are no longer active. Others are still around, but with different opinions than when they started. That’s fun, I guess. Really makes me think syscourse might just be a cycle where everyone eventually swaps their opinions and the whole conversation starts over again, because that sure is the same conversation we’re still having.
The new age of users on the anti-endo side of things…concerns me.
I know a lot of them are younger— around the same age I was when I was active in all this. That does worry me. A lot are arguing the exact same things I used to argue, but also fundamentally misunderstanding certain aspects of this argument. I’ve seen some assume that “endogenic” refers to “endogenic CDD” and not “system/plurality”; I’ve seen a misunderstanding and/or refusal to appropriately tag posts that ultimately results in them blaming others for trying to police them or harass them (the claim that pro-endos are invading their spaces or trying to gatekeep/steal tags). I’ve seen a lot of behaviours that I remember exhibiting, or at the very least repressing in favour of not wanting confrontation, and it truly concerns me.
So, I have a message, I guess.
Syscourse is not that big of a deal. I mean it. I left tumblr for three years and didn’t think about any of it for the entire time. I didn’t have the experience of meeting anyone in real life who used a label I didn’t like, nor was I denied medical help because someone “faking” took it from me. I had other things going on, and I forgot that I cared so much. I literally healed. I achieved the closest I can get to functional multiplicity without actual treatment, and that’s good enough for me. Not caring about syscourse removed the stress it was causing, and we ahealed.
Before that, though, when we were deep in syscourse, we were at our most dysfunctional. I (as a persecutor) was getting worse, and the system was fucking miserable. We were constantly paranoid about completely unrealistic things, and angry at people we couldn’t view as anything more than a concept simply because we hated them. It was a devastating mindset to be in, and I genuinely think that it’s caused permanent damage. We have alters that split specifically because of syscourse; mechanisms that exist because of the stress it caused; things about ourself and system that we struggled with for years because they were seen as signs of either faking or not specifically DID. Toward the end of our time in syscourse, we were honestly just jealous that others had a community that wasn’t just constantly fighting each other. We had things that we couldn’t admit here because we were scared of being cast out and told we were faking, because a reaction like that might have killed us.
I’m not saying that you instantly have to accept all forms of plurality without question, nor am I saying that you have to even consider doing that. What I’m saying is that this argument isn’t worth it. It’s been going back and forth about the same thing for years. It’s a completely pointless argument, and all it’s doing is causing harm to you that you will notice at some point. We left tumblr in the middle of a genuine mental breakdown that we had been having for months by that point. We hated ourself and everyone around us; we were fucking terrified of encountering someone we disagreed with in real life; we thought about syscourse constantly; we were dealing with horrendous mood swings; we stopped talking to people irl, including our family; we couldn’t even care about our hobbies. It got to a point where we were actually suicidal. I know this won’t be what happens to everyone, but being 14-17 in syscourse was literally the worst point in my life, and I’m saying that as someone who was abused. I had never reached a lower point before then.
And it didn’t just hurt me, or the people I was around. It hurt the system. Our involvement in syscourse stunted our healing, because we were causing ourself more trauma. We got worse, because we were causing ourself more trauma. The only good thing that came of it was 🩸, who was previously a persecutor, becoming a protector out of necessity. Unfortunately, that was only necessary because of the things we were doing here. I was someone others in the system wanted to avoid, and now I’m not, because we left.
So, please. PLEASE prioritise your own minds here. You cannot control what other people do on the internet or in real life. Arguing on tumblr is not as serious as you think it is. Posting “endos suck” isn’t going to make people not be them, and posting “antis suck” isn’t going to stop people from being them either. I don’t mean this in a mean way, but please, go outside. Find something that brings you joy; find a hobby; if you’re in a situation where you can’t do these things (as a result of still being in an abusive situation, for example), then adding more stress to your system here isn’t going to do you any good. I was still in an abusive situation for a time when I was in syscourse, and it wasn’t even a good distraction. It just made me feel worse.
If you notice symptoms of a nervous breakdown, please disconnect from syscourse (or social media entirely). You cannot heal, a CDD or anything else, if you’re constantly in a stressful environment. For your own sakes, please be mindful of how your body and mind are reacting to stuff like this.
i've been watching syscourse since the 2010s, and just like nothing changed from '20 to '26, nothing's changed since the '10s either. same old arguments and misunderstandings recycled over and over. most antis are young systems who are still struggling, early in recovery, maybe even still stuck in traumatizing situations. i've been there before and i'm familiar with this impulse to attach yourself to an in-group, lash out at an imagined invasive out-group, to feel some sense of control and/or certainty over anything. i thought your post was really insightful and exactly the kind of nuanced conversation about syscourse we all need to have sooner rather than later
I gathered it’s been the same for a while since I saw a few others say the same. I wish things could calm down a little, but I highly doubt it will anytime soon. Unfortunate, but just the way of things in an argument so cyclical. I genuinely think the best thing some people can do is just disconnect from it all.
lowkey tiring to see endogenics being pushed down everywhere and forced into one box. "you are either here or there, you cannot have confusing, contradictory or mixed experiences, you can only use these words to describe yourself or else you're explaining your own experiences wrongly. no, not those words either"
or being grouped with one or another unrelated group just because you see them on the same level of threat. because endos are not people living, but a theoretical concept of threats. unlike, y'know, radqueers who actually accept noncon harm, don't respect boundaries, who think kids can consent or "it's okay if it's only romantic / without actual sex going on", etc.
or denying other CDD systems or even saying they don't have CDD, because they happen to have a different stance. cuz yeah, other people with your condition cannot need resources or share a place with you if they think differently. or they should die or harm themselves / their selves, really, why do they exist if they don't agree with you? obviously actual pwCDD would share your opinion
I absolutely fucking HATE when SINGLETS ( ofc this is talking about ones that are anti-endo because we have mixed origins ) have fucking OPINIONS ON SYSTEMS WITHOUT EXTENSIVE RESEARCH OF ***BOTH*** DISORDERD AND NON-DISORDERED SYSTEMS AS WELL AS TRAUMAGENIC AND ENDOGENIC PLURALITY.
Listen to all sides, read and consider the research given ( as well as the legitimacy of the sources,, ie is it out of date / written by someone with a degree / by someone who is plural / etc. ) before you have an opinion based on only one side of the story.
This rule should honestly go for almost everything. Wondering what belief system is right for you? Research multiple religions and belief systems. Curious about theories? Research if there's reliable facts to support them. Thinking about getting vaccinated but are worried because of all the things antivaxxers say? Look at sources published by clinics, hospitals, and just registered doctors in general.
It's that simple. Don't know where to start because it all feels daunting? Have a friend there so it doesn't feel as different! Or make a list of things to search, and stuff to check if it's a reliable source ( .com / .org / .edu doesn't mean shit!!!! ) Ways to check credibility are under the cut for the sake of not making the post too long.
Screenshots sourced from @freddythejester and screenshotted due to being a reblog of an anti-endo's post
im not a fan of being told i cant call something pluralphobic because “that’s an endo term.” i dgaf that youre insecure and annoying about endos, its a useful term that describes what we deal with all the time as a disordered, diagnosed CDD system so were gonna use it and you should too if you want anything to change ever
nobody in my irl life whos important to me knows i exist and if they did wed lose almost all of our critical support network. thats living with pluralphobia. its safe to assume there are plenty of endos who live the same way, cant be themselves irl. pluralphobia is a real, serious problem to be tackled, but were never gonna manage to do it if we have to constantly fight about who REALLY experiences it and whether or not its a “valid word” at all
if somebodys outright faking OCD or they claim to have it in a strange, maybe impossible way, im not supportive of that as somebody with diagnosed OCD. they dont have it. but if they talk about their fake OCD and are then discriminated against for it, theyve still experienced that targeted medical discrimination. even if they were faking, they could still make a positive impact by talking about what they went through presenting as having OCD and campaign for further destigmatization of it
even if you dont believe endos are “real systems” (a concept thats certainly hurting you and your own system as much as its hurting theirs) you can see how, presenting as one publically, they can be victims of pluralphobia. this is how discrimination works. its shitty to say with no scientific basis that an entire group of people are brainwashed or lying about their entire lives, especially when thats exactly what were told by medical professionals and singlets ourselves, but if youre that committed to your narrative you can AT LEAST recognize that we all are capable of facing discrimination and an inability to be our true selves
Fakeclaiming in it's entirety is harmful. If you are going to say "oh fakeclaimers DNI" then EVERY FAKECLAIMERS DNI. You don't get to be anti endo and anti fakeclaiming because you actively fakeclaim endogenic systems which in itself is just as hurtful as fakeclaiming another traumagenic system. "B-but they are a-" no. no the fuck not. You are the ableist for telling other people how to cope, for telling other people their possible mental illness that is unrelated to a trauma-cause disorder that is yet undiscovered isn't real and they need to suck it up. No. You do not get to tell other people what their mental state/stability is like. That is at best ignorant and at worst ableistic/ageistic online harassment of (probably) innocent people. You wouldn't want to be fakeclaimed do you? Than don't fucking fakeclaim other people either
if you believe yourself to be plural without trauma, i don't care.
if you believe yourself to be plural without having a CDD, i don't care.
however, the terms "endogenic" and "willogenic" are fundamentally claiming to be a part of a group that they simply are not. there is no traumaless "version" of being a system. if you don't have a CDD, stop calling yourself a system. your parts are not "alters". these terms describe symptoms of a clinical condition. if you do not have said condition, you do not get to claim those terms for yourself.
make new terms to describe your experiences. a lot of endos seem to be a part of the MOGAI/LIOM community, which makes it baffling to me that some of them want to cling to the system label so badly.
i think there is a future where all forms of plurality can be accepted and we can all hold hands. it is not my (or anyone else's) place to dictate others' experiences. however, it is 100% my place as a pwDID to say that we cannot be using the same terms to describe our vastly different experiences. because no, being a non-traumagenic plural is nothing like having a CDD and it never will be.
edit; changed OSDDID to CDD to refer to all disordered, traumagenic plurality, as i believe anyone who falls under this label can call themself a system if they so choose
"System" isn't and never has been a term exclusive to those with a CDD. It's a word with a definition that fit the theories around CDDs, and therefore was used to refer to them. Just as it is used to refer to everything else similar - because of "personality system"
The only thing "system" describes is its definition, and it's not defined as CDD symptoms.
Also - just how system ≠ plural and plural ≠ system, traumagenic ≠ disordered and endogenic ≠ non-disordered. There's traumagenic systems without a CDD. And there's endogenic systems with a CDD, because endogenic are those who don't form from trauma. They can still be trauma survivors.
Theory of Structural Dissociation, The Haunted Self,
The American Psychological Association's Dictionary,
Freud's theory of ID, Ego, and Superego (arguably a theory of multiple selves),
The general use of "system" in psychology,
Internal Family Systems, which isn't inherently related to CDDs,
And the use of "system" in the context of multiplicity outside CDDs and trauma,
“The term system is often used to describe a collection of these entities sharing the body. [] There is a diversity of experiences within plurals/systems, such that members of a system may have different gender identities and salience of gender; ages/experience of age; perceived internal appearances; varied beliefs, memories, feelings, and thoughts; and complex interrelationships with other system members. [] People who live as plural systems are almost always treated as though this way of living is a pathology. [] Yarbrough observed that many plural systems did not experience distress from the existence of other internal headmates, and recommended shared decision making among headmates when pursuing treatment. [] However, this study adopted a non-pathological approach to plural experience, in order to better understand systems’ authentic experiences."
"These strands of experience are characterized as multiple identities, internal people, self-states, or ‘alters.’ When alters take control of the body, they can be described as ‘fronting,’ and exchange control in a process termed ‘switching’. The term ‘system’ describes the collection of these entities sharing a body, while the term ‘system member’ is a neutral term, equivalent to ‘alter,’ which describes one individual entity within a plural body. Members of a system may have unique experiences of gender and salience of gender, perceived internal appearance, age or experiences of age, varied beliefs, memories, feelings, and thoughts. [] The present study uses the term ‘plurality,’ which emerged from the advocacy community of multiples, and recently has been incorporated into the scientific literature. This newer, more inclusive term describes a broad range of pathological and non-pathological multiplicity, denoting those who have more than one person or entity sharing one body as a ‘plural system.’”
“Overall, the term ‘parts’ was viewed as problematic by the participants as it could imply the plural system is not coexisting as a whole. [] Multiplicity has been defined as the experience of having two or more separate selves within one body, with the body’s behaviour being controlled by one-self at any one time. Those who experience multiplicity often refer to themselves as multiples or systems (a system of separate selves). The separate selves within the system, otherwise known as ‘alters’, ‘parts’ or 'headmates’, usually have differing ages, genders, feelings, thoughts and memories. Henceforth, we shall refer to people with DID or multiplicity as ‘systems’ to recognise a more inclusive approach to language for people identifying as multiple. [] The absence of distress experienced by systems identifying as multiple may suggest that DID and multiplicity vary in experience, and the dominance of DID in research highlights a fundamental limitation in the understanding of multiplicity.”
“Multiplicity experiences are phenomenologically distinct from clinical dissociative experiences and require understanding of how each system operates to inform language use and support. [] Holistic, person/system-centred therapeutic support can create a reflective space in which the system can make choices as to how to live well, without judgement or stigma. People and systems with lived experience of multiplicity explain their multiplicity as life-enhancing and positive.”
Etc. There's more, but you should get the idea.
Many new terms have already been created. It's had no change, as the argument turns into "you're appropriating CDD experiences"
This discussion was finished by scientific literature a long time ago. "System" was never used to label only symptoms of CDDs
