Plural Tantum

Recently dx'd with DID, trying to figure things out. Blogging aspects of our discovery and recovery.

[radiofreeslowzone]

do you guys remember being like 14 and being like these sheep could never understand me and,the inoffensive indie rock I listen to on my ipod touch ..

[alagaisia]

Prev tags passing peer review because just today at work a little girl about 2 years old tripped and hit her knee on the tile floor in the lobby. And she was crying these deep grief-filled sobs through which she occasionally managed a long keening wail of “ow” or “owie”, and I almost started crying in sympathy because we’ve all seen that observation of how even though it was a small fall, for a two year old, this is the worst pain she’s ever felt. And her expression of that pain felt so similar to the way I cried when my friend died and it was the worst pain I have ever felt. Like we both felt like it was the end of the world. Me losing a friend and that two year old bruising her knee, and we both felt the same hurt and betrayal and pain. It means something but I can’t speak to exactly what. But we’re all connected in our experiences and all that.

[hazedxhealing]

Reminder that being a "plural singlet" isn't a thing.

Stop.

Full stop.

Full breaks.

Enough is enough.

[pluralia-tantum]

Pls do people rly say this 😭

[plural-culture-is]

plural culture is learning that trauma isn't even actually in the diagnostic criteria for DID or OSDD and silently being so intensely angry at sysmeds over it.

we're a non-disordered mixed origins system and we're so intensely PISSED. OFF. on behalf of (especially fully) endogenic disordered systems.

.

[sysmedsaresexist]

Can you not spread this shit?

DID/OSDD are trauma disorders. Trauma is mentioned in criteria b (the "and/or" doesn't mean it's optional, it means you might or might not remember it), but there's so much more information than just the criteria and it's clearly trauma-based.

You're not only publishing misinformation, encouraging anon's anger, and encouraging THEM to spread it further, but you're also complicit in telling people to misread the DSM.

You can't read only the criteria.

The DSM says this over and over again but no one reads beyond the criteria to see that. There's several pages to the entry for DID that explains the memory issues involved surrounding trauma.

Trauma can't be a criteria because no one would ever be diagnosed.

Most people can't remember trauma and those that do downplay it's severity, discounting it as traumatic.

Quit it.

Plural culture is misreading the DSM and being upset over it

[pluralia-tantum]

TW for non-graphic mentions of different types of abuse.

Reminder that 90% of DID cases are associated with abuse specifically - the original study took into account only sexual and physical abuse, meaning types of abuse such as emotional abuse or neglect likely weren't factored into this statistic. According to one study, about 90% of cases reported CSA, about 80% reported physical abuse, and about 95% reported experiencing both at some point.

Again, ONLY TWO TYPES OF ABUSE WERE FACTORED IN. This didn't account for other types of abuse. It also didn't account for other types of trauma, such as growing up in poverty, medical trauma, or natural disasters.

The fact that only two types of trauma were taken into account and it's still almost 100% of cases kind of speaks for itself imo.

Sources:

More than 90 percent of dissociative identity disorder cases involve a history of childhood abuse and neglect. Can we prevent DID by prevent

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2044042/&ved=2ahUKEwjr-sK2x8r9AhWOIkQIHedUBdgQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3ijPj8yl87iVpPUdW56YmP

[syscoursepolls]

do u think didosdd/cdd r caused by trauma?

yes, always

yes, most of the time

yes, sometimes

yes but not usually

no, never

see results??

Voting ended onMar 6, 2023

reblog for sample size!

[pluralia-tantum]

I understand why people think otherwise, but I've never believed that personally because dissociation has been linked to trauma statistically, down to over 90% of people dx'd with DID reporting experiencing just one specific type of childhood trauma.

[pluralia-tantum]

Realizing more and more how varying my parts' spiritual and religious beliefs are. This honestly makes a lot of sense to me, we were exposed to a lot of religions growing up over different points in our lives. Not sure how to balance this though, I've been trying to allow them to express themselves more but this seems quite difficult somehow. Workout on figuring it out.

Do other systems have the experience of conflicting or differing religious beliefs in parts?

[tzxtzx]

I try not to include stuff like this on this blog but I feel like I should say something since I've observed this more recently. Why are there anti-endogenic maladaptive daydreamers?

Both are unofficially recognized experiences - but if anything endogenic and non-disordered systems actually have far more historical and even official DSM-V recognition than MaDD. MaDD was only very recently purposed but you have the healthy multiplicity movement going back to the early 90s, historical examples of non-medical systems, and the acknowledgement of cultural and non-clinical multiplicity in the DSM-V.

They are also very similar. MaDD isn't exclusively caused by trauma but is generally associated with it, and people might daydream before it becomes MaDD - which is very similar to system experiences where non-trauma systems are not excluded from DIDOSDD in the DSM-V and there are systems who were non-disordered before trauma but trauma made them disordered. Not to mention daydreaming itself isn't inherently the disorder and we have communities like immersive daydreaming and neuronaration, which might share terms and experiences.

I know the obvious answer is systems have had an organized community for longer and the plural community, especially DIDOSDD, being set up so you can loose your support network over even being neutral on endogenic systems among other things, but it does make me wonder if we might experience the exact same community divide/binary, term/experience gatekeeping, and medicalization that occurred with non-medical systems. It just takes one person to start a domino effect that can do irreparable damage to a community even 8 years later.

Imagine if there was a sudden push by MaDDers to make the term paracosm exclusive to MaDD or begin to claim that non-disordered daydreaming can't exist? That's basically what syscourse is.

[justanothersyscourse]

Hey, so, here's a fun fact.

The person who proposed the concept of Maladaptive Daydreaming in 2002, Eli Somer, believes MADD is what endogenic systems are experiencing

This whole interview with Dr. Somer is really interesting, honestly

Anyways, this question is weird, anti endos think you can have both DID and MADD because they're two entirely different concepts and problems that can, and do, exist together, this post reads like you don't understand syscourse or what anti endos are actually mad about (hah, except not, because we're actually mad about the misinformation that gets spread and the conflation of endogenic plurality with the actual physical phenomenon of DID/OSDD)

Here's some more fun facts

The healthy multiplicity movement was largely ableist, and often outright CRUEL to people with MPD/DID (I suggest taking a look at @pluraldeepdive for all the juicy details, including pictures and archives)-- it was never about endos, but about being anti psychiatry

The DSM 5 doesn't recognize endogenics, it recognizes short-term, nonpathological experiences of possession in ceremonial and cultural contexts (in other words, things that aren't systems, wow, shocking)

And finally, brain scans, proving that DID IS in fact trauma based, and that the trauma that causes it is long-term and occurs in childhood. The hope is that eventually these scans can be used for diagnostic purposes, at which point, no, endogenic systems can't be diagnosed with DID/OSDD because they lack these biomarkers

[tzxtzx]

It looks like this post breached containment. I'll respond but I would ask that you leave me alone because I don't want to deal with people who do not think I exist. This type of discussion can never be fair or exist in good faith.

I have heard the endogenic systems experiencing MaDD thing before but didn't realize that was the source. Regardless it's still an ignorant take because plurality and daydreaming are different - and a doctor saying it doesn't make it automatically true especially given the lack of teaching on systems in general in psychology. I am direct proof against this concept because I both existed in my system before trauma and before we started actively daydreaming.

I have been in the community since 2015 and faced harassment and in some cases abuse from people online because of what I am. I know syscourse. That's also why I'm a little mad that this got picked up by some blog that treats this as an internet hobby instead of something life ruining.

I am aware of the ableism of the healthy multiplicity movement, but any movement like such as the potential for ableism. The autism is not a disability movement (there may be a better word for it) can also be ableist towards other autistic people. I was also careful with my wording because no healthy multiplicty and endogenic systems are not the same thing and there were plenty of trauma-based and DIDOSDD systems in the healthy multiplicity movement.

There are also many good reasons that a system might be anti-psychiatry given how medical abuse is still extremely common for systems to experience but that is another topic. Regardless anti-psych is not inherently ableist.

I was moreso referring to criteria 5 where you need clinical distress and impairment. If you fit all of the other criteria but do not experience the clinical distress and impairment, you do not have DIDOSDD but are still a system.

Now I'm going to bold this because I've seen this circulating since 2018 I want to say?

Trauma physically affects the brain - we still do not have enough research from those studies to conclude that it's specifically DIDOSDD.

Even so how can you even say that endogenic systems do not have physical differences if there have been no studies into it? That proves nothing and it's interesting but it's not an actual study that includes endogenic systems and does not apply to them in any way.

This is also a digression but the diagnostic process for DIDOSDD is already notoriously difficult and as mentioned before medical abuse is common and it can be risky. Requiring an actual brain scan for a mental illness diagnosis is a horrible idea.

Even if they need the trauma biomarkers to be diagnosed, you do realize endogenic systems can go through trauma, right?

[sysmedsaresexist]

You can't be like, "don't respond," and then make several more incorrect statements

This is how misinformation gets spread, and why anti endos are mad

I didn't say ANYTHING about whether endos were real, the only thing I want is to make sure people aren't saying stupid shit that will confuse others, SO

If you read beyond the criteria and into "Functional Consequences," you'll see that the DSM actually explains that dysfunction in DID ranges from minimal to extreme, and "high functioning professionals" are still disordered. This is a lifelong disorder, it never goes away. Those injuries, WHICH AGAIN, based on age and healing, were received in childhood, never go away. The new DSM 5 TR has included these scans and biomarkers in the section on DID.

You don't fluctuate in and out of disorderedness, you're always disordered with varying levels of functionality

If you take medication for clinical depression and begin feeling better, do you suddenly not have depression? Or are you managing your symptoms?

It's the same thing with DID. You can personally choose to no longer identify with the label, but to say, "you MUST be 'THIS' disordered to ride the ride" is pretty fucking bad, and the only ones saying that seem to be endo systems.

The distress and dysfunction criteria is, as per the DSM, because no one ever reads beyond the criteria, "a generic criteria" that was added to all disorders to differentiate between pathological and "normal". It's redundant and circular and only indicates that "a disorder is a disorder". That's it. If you want sources of clinicians talking about this criteria, just ask.

In the case of DID, this is the difference between IFS and systems, for example. One is physical and pathological and one is subjective, internal, and an optional choice for looking inward.

ALSO as per the DSM, a diagnosis does not indicate a need for treatment, because dysfunction and disorder are not synonymous. If you want screenshots of the applicable sections, just ask.

People who think they are synonymous have an ableist view of what "disordered" looks like, and you should probably do some inner searching on what YOU think disordered people look like.

The healthy multiplicity movement was ALL DID/OSDD and was anti psych. That's it. It rejected the idea that trauma was what defined them and actively stated that those who were still experiencing trauma reactions were "lesser" than those in the movement.

Endogenic wasn't a thing, it grew out of that rejection of trauma and into NO trauma needed. The natural multiplicity movement.

You know, because DID is unnatural.

Thanks, lunastusco for giving us endogenic 🤗

HEY, HAVE ANOTHER FUN FACT, did you know that "endogenic" was used by Freud to refer to the fantasy model of DID, which states that it's all fake?? (You get that source for free, as a treat)

Endogenic systems can have PTSD, and seeing as the treatment for PTSD is different from the treatment for CPTSD and DID, they would benefit more from those resources. No one is saying they can't have trauma, but it's still not the same as DID.

Grow up, have actual conversations about these things, discuss, learn.

Sure it's uncomfortable, but you'll be better for it.

Right now, the shit you say will hurt people.

You're not helping the image of people with DID by pushing this idea that you can "graduate" out of a diagnosis. If you look at this blog, you'll see actual DID systems saying we should be STRIVING to be more like endogenics because they're nondisordered and good examples, and we can get there, guys.

No, we can't. We can get places, absolutely, I made a post on celebrating achievements of those with DID recently, it's great. But we can't get rid of these injuries and the small, insidious ways they affect us.

Still.

👏 We 👏 can 👏 be 👏 functional 👏 and 👏 disordered 👏

And we're badasses for doing it, despite what these ableist fucks think!

I don't know who told all of you otherwise, but you can still be functional and still have DID. It's right there, if you just read a little more.

I honestly don't care about you, or any endo, I care about DID/OSDD systems.

I point out misinformation and advocate for the sharing of CORRECT information about DID/OSDD.

That's it.

Sorry you take that as an attack??

[pluralia-tantum]

Endos stop appropriating terms from actually marginalized communities challenge

[queerautism]

Stop spamming unrelated tags and stay in your sysmed tags shithead

[pluralia-tantum]

Nah

[tchaikovskaya]

[libraford]

"I dont think teenagers flipping burgers should make more money than adults paying rent."

I know a 15 year old who is the only money earner for his household because his parents are elderly and hes the only one of them that speaks english well enough to get a job. I think he should get paid a lot, to be honest.

[libraford]

But also 15 year olds who are not supporting elderly parents and who do not have a language barrier should also get paid a lot because most work available for 15 year olds sucks and humans deserve to be compensated for their time and energy regardless of their situation.

[pluralia-tantum]

One of my friends in high school had to drop out bc he was the only one in his family who could work and didn't have time for that and school. If he had made more, maybe he could have worked part-time and been able to graduate.

[unwelcome-ozian]

[s3veneyedlamb]

[garcavisconde]

Losing my mind over this article

[allisonrw96]

Every now and again I think of this Sarah tweet and just stare into the middle distance.

[fuckthisbloganditscurses]

Happiness Will Come To You.

[12goblins]

when tho

[fuckthisbloganditscurses]

When You Least Expect It. Probably Late March

[wizardshark]

reblog for happiness to come for you in late march!

[zigxortega]

[zac--efren]

I reblogged this last year and I hung out with blink-182 backstage on March 30. Reblogging again because it worked the first time.

[scientiablr]

honestly, last year one of the best days of my life happened in late March

[doomsdayradio]

i really hate it when pro/endos are like "one side of syscourse just want to exist (pro/endos) and the other side just wants to control and erase people (anti-endos)" because like anti-endos also just want to fucking exist lmao most CDDs systems literally do not want anything from endos except for them to stop spreading misinformation about disorders they literally say they dont have like i am genuinely willimg to bet a good portion of anti-endos would not give one flying fuck about what endos do if they werent stealing medical terms or spreading misinformation

like hasnt that been the shift in syscourse recently? at least from what ive noticed a lot of people who call themselves anti-endo arent even necessarily people who think endos dont exist period, theyre better described (and a lot of them do straight up describes themselves as) anti-misinformation

i just feel like so much of syscourse would die out over night if endos just agreed to stop talking about shit theyre not educated about if theyre not going to do proper research or listen to actual CDD systems💀💀

i dont believe this is even a situation where endos shouldnt talk about CDDs at all, because that brings on a whole different issue of people mixing up their CDD experience with endogenic plurality, and i am personally of the belief that these experiences are very fundamentally different, but theres a large amount of CDD systems who have mistakenly thought they were endogenic (like us) so while they are fundamentaly different theres the implication that theyre similar enough to be mistaken for eachother so spreading correct information and making some kind of divide is important

idk honestly im just putting thoughts out into the air

[spindash]

CAME OUT OF MY DADS PRINTER AT WORK TODAY..........

[image description: a picture of a printed message on a piece of paper. before the message is a picture of pope john paul II smiling and with his hands raised in the air. below it reads:

Hi,

if you're reading this message, it's highly likely that your printer is exposed to the public internet via port forwarding. This means that *anyone* on the internet with some technical knowledge can send print jobs to your printer - or worse, try to exploit it and use it as a part of a global botnet.

If you didn't intend for this, please look into disabling UPnP (Universal Plug and Play) on your router, or remove the port forwarding rule for the port 9100.

~ a friendly catgirl hacker :3

end ID.]

[pluralia-tantum]

Having DID is actually so completely wild sometimes because I'll literally go weeks without switching and completely forget I have trauma and forget that I'm dissociating and then I'll get stressed or a certain song will come on and suddenly I'm wearing different clothes and it's two hours later and I'm like "oh right"