I’m reading the History of the Fall of Troy by “Dares the Phrygian” and I’m laughing at this quote (context: Andromache has a bad prophetic dream and gets Priam to keep Hector at home):
Hector, on learning of this, bitterly blamed Andromache and told her to bring forth his armor; nothing, he said, could keep him from battle. She tried in vain to make him relent…
between odysseus carving his marital bed from a tree trunk and penelope weaving and un-weaving a funeral shroud to stave off her suitors, i think what homer is telling us is that the foundation of a good relationship is arts and crafts
I was thinking and I started to wonder, which actresses so far do you think portrayed Penelope the best?
In order of my favorites:
Silvana Mangano in the 1954 film Ulysses: I've talked about her before, but again, her almost aristocratic, delicate beauty, expressive eyes, and excellent portrayal of cautiously walking on eggshells in her own house and subtle defiance and sorrow was masterful. Her best scene was when she was talking to Odysseus when he was disguised as a beggar - at first she is cautious, almost scornful/angry at another person coming in, claiming to know her husband. But the more they talk, the more she opens up, suspects the truth but can't say, and subtly challenges him by declaring her faithfulness "But Penelope is faithful. It's SO easy for Penelope to be faithful". And together they come up with the challenge of the bow. There is so much the script said without saying in that scene.
Pros: Has close to the level of beauty described in the Odyssey. "Looking like Artemis or Golden Aphrodite", "White as sawed Ivory", Something in her beauty reminds me of a Mermaid, which fits as the daughter of a Naiad.
Great at displaying both Penelope's stonewall front to the suitors and her unraveling/longing in private.
Is shown occasional sweet-talking some suitors to keep the balance of the house/buy time.
Has great chemistry with her Odysseus, played by Douglass Kirk.
Irene Papas,The Odyssey (1968): what can I say about her that hasn't already? Fantastic, legendary actress. Not my number one spot, as I think her face has a slightly fiercer beauty than I picture Penelope to have, better suite to play Clytemnestra, which she also so well. She is the most Greek of the famous actresses to play Penelope, bringing little details to the role others couldn't. Her regal face when facing the suitors and her doting face with Telemachus are so, so good. Her best scene is when she demands Odysseus let HER test HIM now, after all is said and done, and melts when he passes the bed test.
Pros: Greek actress in a Greek role.
Is always secretly watching what is around her, taking it all in, observing to stay afloat.
Her soft face in private for her son and memories is wonderful acting.
During the slaughter of the suitors, she is show trying not to panic, to keep it together. But she's scared and vulnerable.
Greta Scacchi The Odyssey (1997): Good actress but not my favorite. While it shows the dignified wife well, she just doesn't carry the same charm that Mangano and Papas bring - the sort of spark that gives their Penelopes uniqueness. But Scacchi still has great moments - her subtle "oh crap" look when she realizes the suitors will not be leaving and then her best scene is the zinger at the challenge of the bow - when she leaves the suitors asks should she stay to see the winner, she answers "You're all the same to me." And of course she is lovely - Golden Aphrodite indeed.
Pros: Her human side is shown more easily.
She feels like such a mom to everyone around her. She gives a great "I'm disappointed" look to Menetho when she betrays her.
Is shown to be considering what her defiance is costing her household, kingdom.
What do you think? which of the three are your favorite?
leftists are well aware that male supremacy is the original form of exploitation. that it existed in classless societies, that it existed in societies without private property, and that it will exist in their ideal world, too. that it arose globally and independently of cross-cultural exposure. leftists have to lie about this historical fact, because they need women to participate in leftist organizing if they want to defeat their fascist rivals (not enemies—communists and fascists are mere rivals).
the right can afford to be openly male supremacist and still garner the support of women who comply, such as “trad wives.” the left cannot do this. the left cannot successfully pontificate about freedom and liberation while being honest about the fact that they too want women to remain in a subservient set of chains like their rivals do. only the orientation of the chains differ between the two rivals. so, the left has to obfuscate their male supremacist aims so women will still participate in organizing and building the left’s preferred utopia, a utopia that is bereft of social injury to men.
leftists generally don’t say “men ought to lead and dominate,” “women are inferior,” like their rivals do. leftists prefer to be wolves masked as sheep. instead, they’ll say “abolishing capitalism will put an end to patriarchy,” (translation: solve the problems that oppress men first, ignore misogyny, and we pinky swear we’ll help you after we get what we want at your expense), or “feminism is bourgeois” (translation: feminism is the enemy to working class men who want to keep their porn, wives, surrogates and prostitutes).
leftists are not uneducated. leftists do not need to be convinced of 12,000+ years of female subjugation. leftists simply need YOU 🫵🏿 to comply with their preferred brand of male supremacy, so they’ll placate you with falsehoods and platitudes about how feminism must wait, so you’ll be complacent. the reality is they want feminism to wait, indefinitely. men and their apologists are simply acting in the self interests of men. in our society, the only injury is male injury, which is why they will support every movement that improves men’s social status and reject the one thing that will abolish it.
ideally, men must never ever have their sexual access to women be compromised. this contempt for female sexual boundaries and contempt for female freedom from male supremacy animates our entire concept of morality. left, right, center, diagonal, up, down, no matter the political perspective—every movement is a male grievance movement first. only the aesthetics differ, never the result.
my type of carrying on, radical feminism, emerged when an increasing number of leftist women realized these facts of male supremacy—that the right was not our only enemy as women. this is the ultimate rupture of “left-right” liberalism. leftists resist feminism as much as the right, possibly even more, because our refusal to comply with their misogyny is extremely dangerous to the success of their movement. any sort of popularity or sympathy towards real feminism is extremely dangerous to the status quo. leftist men have no choice but to oppose it if they want to keep their wives, their porn, their prostitutes, and their sexual control. the rise of feminism in leftist movements has consistently, globally, led to defections, enabling us to create movements that dared to acknowledge the injuries committed against women. our ability to opt out of their political project after unraveling their trickery has always made us public enemy number 1. tee hee.
this cycle will continue until we as women remember the political bravery and political risk we once exhibited on a global scale. to stop allowing ourselves to be controlled and suppressed by these various male grievance movements. and they are all male grievance movements. even the ones you like!
We always talk about Achilles' "eat [him] raw" line in book 22, but I find Hecuba's later, similarly cannibalistic, line to be equally (if not more) compelling
In book 24, right before Priam goes out to retrieve Hector's body, he speaks with Hecuba, telling her where he's going and what he's doing. In response, Hecuba freaks out, telling Priam to stay and mourn Hector within the walls of Troy. During this exchange she says, "Oh would to god that I could sink my teeth in his liver, eat him [Achilles] raw! That would avenge what he has done to Hector--"
What I find most interesting about Hecuba's line is that it is so much more direct than that of Achilles in book 22. In his speech, Achilles adds a few degrees of separation between himself and the act of cannibalism: "Would to god my rage, my fury would drive me now to ... eat you raw." In Ancient Greece, mortal cannibalism was a serious taboo (duh), seen as the ultimate act of barbarity, one which fundamentally separated a person from their humanity. Cannibalism is an act so disturbing, so inhuman, that even Achilles, in all his rage, cannot bring himself to desire it (let alone commit the act!).
But Hecuba, Hecuba doesn't dance around it. "Oh would to god that I could sink my teeth in his liver, eat him raw!" This is a direct wish; were she were given the opportunity and the power, she would eat Achilles. At this point, what does she have to lose? She's already lost so many sons, Troy is in a state of constant distress, and now Hector is gone. Hector, her very own son. Hector, the protector of Troy. All Hecuba has left is rage, a hunger for vengeance. A Rage so potent that it can only be expressed through the most sinful and visceral act of devouring your enemy.
But Hecuba never actually eats Achilles. She doesn't have the outlet that he does; she can't go into battle, can't actually do anything to the man who has killed her son. And so Hecuba's rage, so intensely inhuman, stews within her. And maybe it's because of this festering anger that, in many versions of her story, Hecuba becomes a dog. A beast which, in the Iliad specifically, is so often used as a threat to soldiers and their bodies: "Sooner the racing dogs will eat him raw".
they want women to compete in sports according to standards designed for men because they are *checks notes* not misogynists, apparently. well I say I want humans to engage in inter-species sports with gorillas and cheetahs because what? you don’t think humans are equal beings? we will lose with honour as equals
wait until they find out many things, from cars to medication to public infrastructure, is based on male bodies and male standards and thus leaves women uniquely open to dying more frequently. but this is fine, right? we’ll live according to male standards and die as ‘feminist’ heroes, partaking equally in this apparently equal society that is made for *checks notes* less than half the human population alive right now, who have almost a total monopoly on political and economic power. I’m really smart you guys, remember you’re a martyr for the cause when you die in that car crash at higher rates than men
Every Jane Austen book is like what if your family sucked so bad like the worst any family had ever sucked but you couldn’t get rid of them bc of honor. And every Jane Austen movie is like this woman loves her family :) little miss sunshine :)
We all know Wentworth is the best Austen man. There’s no discussion about it. He’s the best among her heroes. Your favorite might be whomever, it doesn’t matter. Wentworth is the best of them all. He knows it, we know it. We love him.
We as a society don't talk often about how the ending given to My Fair Lady by Hollywood is absolutely rubbish.
Eliza Doolittle from the start is shown as an independent woman who only wants to gain skills to further her career. Yes for a brief moment there she is attracted to Professor Higgins but I like to attribute it to proximity for a long period of time (6 months according to the wager) but after the Embassy Ball she calls Higgins out for his highhanded, misogynistic personality. Then why is she shown to go back to him to in the end?
George Bernard Shaw, writer of Pygmalion from which the plot of My Fair Lady is drawn up, protested the ending till 1938 that Eliza going back to Higgins is unacceptable to him and he gives a marvelous explanation for it
"When Eliza emancipates herself – when Galatea comes to life – she must not relapse. She must retain her pride and triumph to the end. When Higgins takes your arm on 'consort battleship' you must instantly throw him off with implacable pride; and this is the note until the final 'Buy them yourself.' He will go out on the balcony to watch your departure; come back triumphantly into the room; exclaim 'Galatea!' (meaning that the statue has come to life at last); and – curtain. Thus he gets the last word; and you get it too."
According to Shaw Eliza and Freddy get married and are happily running a green grocery-cum-flower shop, with Colonel Pickering providing them with funds for it. Freddy is truthfully a much better choice, yeah he is a himbo but he is kind, doesn't look down on Eliza and loves her for who she is unlike Higgins whose goal is to mould her into what a perfect woman is according to him.
Two well known versions of My Fair Lady are
Rex Harrison plays Professor Higgins in both.
1) The Broadway version in 1956 starring the magnificent Julie Andrews (of Sound of Music, Mary Poppins, Victor Victoria, Princess Diaries, etc.) and John Michael King (from various musical theaters)
And
2) My Fair Lady 1964 starring the iconic Audrey Hepburn (of Sabrina, Breakfast at Tiffany's, Roman Holiday, Charade, etc.) Hepburn's father was a Nazi sympathizer but she danced to secretly raise money for the Dutch Resistance against the Nazis even though she was literally starving. Her mother and she also denounced their royal heritage because of the Nazis in the family. She was a UNICEF ambassador and continued to do humanitarian work even while diagnosed with cancer.
Not sorry for getting sidetracked, I am sick of people remembering her as just a pretty face.
and the dynamic Jeremy Brett (of Dracula, Rebecca [In this Mrs. Danvers played by Anna Massey; she and Brett had divorced by then], various Shakespeare plays, and most popularly known for Granada's The Adventure of Sherlock Holmes, etc. [More famously known as the most faithful adaption of Sherlock Holmes where Holmes isn't a condescending know-it-all but an empathic, cheeky, genius. It also does justice to other character such as Dr. Watson {Victorian Husbands}, Mrs. Hudson {Not just a character for laughs}, and most especially Irene Adler who is often portrayed as a notch on Holmes' bedpost and not the brilliant woman she was and for whom Holmes had immense respect] He has also played both Dorian Gray & Basil Hallward as well as Sherlock Holmes & Dr. Watson). Also well known for his work in mental health
Sorry, got distracted a huge Holmes aficionado and it is a wonderful series
In both Eliza returns to Higgins and while yeah actors didn't have much sway in the plot direction but I do wish someone had stayed true to Shaw and if not him then at least to Eliza.
Metamorphoses a poem by the Roman poet Ovid is the basis for this story. In it the sculptor Pygmalion is disgusted by prostitutes and decides to remain celibate but then creates a statue of a woman whom he deems perfect and falls in love with her, and yes he does the deed with it. Later Venus brings the statue to life and they live 'happily ever after'.
This is awful beyond measure 'cause what is this other than society and patriarchy shaping women into what they think is right. Not that I am surprised that Ovid is the creator of it. His other famous story of Medusa is that she was raped in Athena's temple by Poseidon and then Athen cursed her, is a well known to all. Few know that in the Greek version she is the daughter of Phorcys and Ceto and her and Poseidon get together in a field. Athena is nowhere in the Greek story but of course Ovid just had to go ahead and butcher it and put two women down.
Honestly, why don't we follow Shaw's version more or if that is unacceptable then let Eliza remain what she is at the start an independent woman who takes good care of herself.
It galls me that fanfiction fails here with all the stories being of Eliza and Higgins pairing. Why are we doing this?
Now I am going to add as many tags I can for maximum reach, sue me!
i think one of my other sticking points with austen is that her villains never meet appropriately grisly ends to satiate my bloodlust. if dickens wrote sense and sensibility willoughby would get hit by a train
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