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@raspberrytartt
being an adult is a weird combination of wanting to sleep all the time but also reacting to it being your bedtime a little like a toddler who doesnât want to take a nap
re: the city of montreal loving shane hollander to a maybe concerning extent, i have a deeply unserious vision.
i just know like. he could tweet the word "riot" and downtown montreal would be on fire within two hours. he would never do this! but he has the power. 3x cup winning captain and he's beautiful and niceys and fluent in french? they will move mountains for him. if he so much as just obliquely hints that management is giving him any sort of trouble literally ever, the gm has to worry about his house getting firebombed. the people do not play about captain hollander. it is life and fucking death.
so like if shane has any sort of troubles with management after he comes out, just imagine. he discusses strategy with farah and yuna and they're like some public pressure might not be a bad thing. you can't say anything about specifics, but just a little mention of where you're at, emotionally speaking. and shane says okay, i can try that. so he just very casually mentions in an interview or whatever that some internal issues w the organization have come up after he and ilya got outed, and he's always wanted to retire in montreal, but he's starting to get scared that that might not be entirely up to him anymore, but that's probably just pessimism and paranoia after the outing talking, haha. he's sure, logically, that everything will work out. it's just kind of scary.
[smash cut to downtown montreal on fire]
and he's just like holy shit. i mean i knew montreal has strong feelings about hockey and even about me, but i just thought they might bombard the metros on social media if i mentioned the organization being kinda homophobic. was NOT expecting this???? oh my god??? did i just start a riot by making sad puppy eyes at a camera during one (1) interview?????????
(ilya: i have told you your big beautiful brown eyes are powerful beyond measure. what, you didn't believe me?)
like i can't stress enough. he just was like "psst if some of you guys could send a few strongly worded emails or tweets that would maybe help me out a bit :)" and his fans went "understood. preparing our molotov cocktails now. WE RIDE AT DAWN"
so shane is trapped in his apartment going holy shit oh my god i didn't mean for this to happen???!!! what do i do?!!?? and management and ownership are having an emergency meeting as they abruptly realize that maybe capitalism and property damage matter more to them than homophobia and maybe they need to RAPIDLY restructure their whole approach to how they're handling the hollander situation. please hollander whatever you need we'll do it. please just never make the sad puppy eyes at a camera again holy fuck jesus christ they're going to burn down the gm's house.
there will be a second emergency meeting scheduled with hollander shortly, in which the gm will swear his undying loyalty and fealty to the service of shane hollander and the owners will declare that whatever he needs to keep getting cups in montreal, he can have! just let us know what you need from us hollander. and also please tweet that we are no longer making you sad. please your fans are going to rend us limb from limb and eat our hearts in the square hollander please just tweet a rainbow emoji and smiley face or something. please. hollander please
meanwhile ilya is trying to drive over to see shane to provide emotional support during all this nonsense, but montreal is on fire. theres barricades in the streets. people are yelling and waving signs and throwing things. the fucking french are so dramatic, he complains. for fuck's sake. like yes this is also exactly how he feels about shane's big beautiful brown eyes but good fucking lord.
finally he has to roll down his window like "excuse me! i am shane hollander's boyfriend and i am trying to bring him some ginger ale! can you let my fucking car pass!" and somehow this actually works. it's like when a crowd parts to let an ambulance through, but its "MOVE, ROZANOV IS BRINGING CAPITAINE HIS GINGER ALE" spreading through the crowd. shane is utterly flabbergasted when he hears about this. he doesn't even know the full extent of the power he holds
i just think shane hollander is a lesbian magnet. he has no idea of course but like, he's the perfect kind of Safe Guy for closeted lesbians to "crush" on. he's nice and funny and kind and respectful. and he's a little distant and a little unobtainable. Lesbians Love This Guy. closeted lesbians are drawn to him as a safe comp het crush and it actually works wonders for helping him stay hidden too because his teammates see women with him all the time. he's like "sorry guys i can't hang out this weekend i have plans with monique" and they're all like EYYY GET IT CAP but they don't know that the plans are that he got invited to play dnd with a bunch of dykes. they're helping him set up his character sheet this session. he's very excited he's already memorized half the 5e rulebook
Its personal canon for me that Shane is friends with the entire Montreal Victoire.
people fight down for Shane to be called selfish but if you say Ilya was cruel to Shane at times they are salivating at the mouth crucify you. That to me is where the double standard lies.
so this possibly very unpopular but I donât like how Ilya got Anya without telling Shane.
I see so many people defending it with the excuses usually being âwhy should he, they donât live together?â (despite the fact they were engaged) and âShane owes him one because he was so selfish and Ilya deserves to be happy!â.
For me, I find it disrespectful to make such a big commitment without conferring with your partner about it first. There is such a huge lack of communication in the book between them, that this could have been a lovely moment where Ilya spoke to Shane and told him how much he loved Anya and wanted her. And Shane will do anything to keep Ilya happy so he was never going to say no anyways.
I love playing with the Boxing Day fight and balancing out the narrative so it's not so heavy on blaming Shane for everything, but it's also SO juicy to play with Shane taking on all of the blame and guilt that Ilya heaps on him at his lowest and internalizing it, and breaking himself trying to make up for something he isn't actually responsible for fixing and forcing Ilya not only to recognize and acknowledge how unfair it was to put all of that on Shane's shoulders but also apologizing and working to do better going forward.
I want Ilya to get to a better place with his mental health and finally look back and realize how unfair he was to Shane, and I want him to be horrified when Shane is like "but I deserved it, yeah maybe you were a little hard on me but that's because I wasn't being a good boyfriend," and I want him to hear Irina telling him "Papa is hard on me but it's because he has high expectations." I want Ilya to have a nightmare about the Boxing Day fight where he DID hurt Shane when he shoved him against the wall and have to confront that moment of anger. I want him to scroll through Shane's Instagram, perfectly curated and professional, and see hundreds of hateful comments under even the most benign post and realize that he's been holding onto resentment about Shane not plastering their relationship all over social media now that they can.
I want Shane to tell Hayden to fuck off when he makes another snide comment, and when Ilya expresses his surprise Shane explains that he couldn't risk even more disruption in the room in Montreal when management was already looking for any excuse to get rid of him after he came out, that if he hadn't pulled their miraculous cup run off there would have been a lot of very pointed comments about bringing in new blood and shaking things up, and what would they have done if he'd ended up somewhere further away?
I want Ilya to think about how Hayden hated him and JJ broke Shane's trust and Rose was never around so actually, who DID Shane have to talk about their relationship with, besides his parents?
I want Ilya to catch Shane flinching when one of the guys makes another crack about him not having a leadership position and realize he's been pouring salt in a wound he didn't see for months, and worse, letting the team do it too.
I want Ilya to see the impact that his behavior has had on the man he loves and work on fixing it, instead of spiraling into self loathing or being dismissive.
And I want Shane to see Ilya take ownership of his own contributions to their issues and stop thinking of taking on all the blame as something else he just has to deal with to get to be with Ilya.
what's your personal take on what the point of the ottawa move was? i have seen people argue its a reward, and other people argue its a punishment. Please feel free to delete this if this is a weird ask!
Hello anon! No worries, i'm always glad to have these discussions!
I think the point was for it to be the happy ending. This is at the core of my personal beef with TLG. From what I read and from what the author herself says, i don't think it's supposed to be Shane's reward or punishment - it's a happy ending to the story. Shane playing with Ilya on the same team is a happy ending.
Okay so depending on how you look at it this is about to be either my most or least charitable read of TLG as a story and also, critically, a romance.
My reading is that at least a good part of TLG is playing on the grovel trope.
I think most of us are familiar with the grovel trope. It is an old staple of the romance genre, especially in heterosexual romance. The general idea is that the lover who's feelings have been taken for granted / hurt / ignored is finally recognized as the injured party and their partner does their best to win back their favor via great acts of love.
When you look at TLG, there is a lot of the hallmarks of the grovel trope at action. Shane is shown as someone who is ignoring/oblivious to Ilya's suffering (put a pin in that we'll get to it). He thinks uncharitably about Ilya being at Ottawa, and we get Ilya thinking that he could have won another cup at Boston, which is supposed to tell us 'hey Shane doesn't appreciate his partner who made sacrifices for him'. There are words used like 'dismissively' or 'bitchily' that's telling us that he isn't seriously considering Ilya's hints about maybe coming out. This all is framed as making Ilya's depression worse. And this then culminates in a big fight where Shane suddenly realizes he's been a terrible boyfriend, then their communication is expedited via airplane emergency landing and Shane proposes and decides he is now ready to come out actually. And then they get outed and Shane gets to declare 'i choose him' and then support Ilya through the loss in playoffs and then later his admission of suffering from depression.
But Reva, you say, throughout the story, Shane checks in with Ilya about his mental health multiple times. He is caring, and Ilya shuts him down every. damn. time. He is hurting from the hiding but as he says in the very start of the story 'he is willing to play the long game'. What is he supposed to do read Ilya's mind? How is this supposed to sell me on him being ignorant or oblivious?
Because the grovel trope in TLG is centered around the conflict of Shane's unwillingness to come out. His ignorance is not about Ilya's suffering but about the fact that the cause of his suffering is being in closet (which is also not something Ilya ever brings up meaningfully before the entire boxing day fight but fine. fine). The narrative does not resolve the fight equally. It does not say, hey Ilya was not communicating his needs and was actively avoiding Shane's attempts to understand his feelings. It instead places the blame on Shane's feet and again centers Ilya's sacrifice by having him declare 'i would give up more'. This is because Shane's primary failure as a boyfriend, according to the narrative, is keeping Ilya in the closet. Him not wanting to share his relationship with people, when they are in the National Homophobia League is his primary offense. What he is making up for is not being a careless boyfriend - it is for wanting their relationship to remain a secret. The enemy to be defeated becomes not homophobia but the desire to be closeted.
The Ottawa ending is a happy ending, because Shane's emotional arc is firmly tied to how he treats his boyfriend and his diet, his loyalty to Montreal, his unwillingness to come out and even his hockey are all obstacles in the path of this journey.
This is why when he finally has a realization of 'i have treated my boyfriend badly' he is then able to easily jump and skip over these obstacles to a happy ending.
Shane's personal tragedy of being discriminated against and having to leave the team he built from the fucking ground up isn't given narrative space because that isn't the point of the story. It's not relevant. It's side dressing to take care of the happy ending where Ilya's final problem i.e. the long distance part of their relationship, is easily wrapped up with a beautiful bow. Ottawa isn't his punishment or his reward, because it is not about him. It's the happy ending of the story because the story is not about him.
I support the "fiction isn't real so nothing matters" mindset but tbf at a certain point it can tip over into "the curtains are just blue" territory
like yes actually there is a conversation to be had about how a characters actions are framed and how they thematically fit with the rest of the story and it can in fact reflect the author's beliefs. some authors are even trying to make a point
not all depiction is glorification but sometimes it is and you need to be able to tell the difference. not because your immortal soul will be tainted by reading The Bad One, but because you need to have reading comprehension skills
Iâm using my credentials to call bullshit on Shane not being good with kids. On a fundamental level it is impossible for him to be bad with kids for the simple fact that the kids would be truly so obsessed with him. Even if he wasnât Shane Hollander Pro-Hockey Player I promise you a beautiful man who is good at sports will never struggle to connect with kids, they eat that shit UP.
Yes and-ing this by saying that the only person who thinks that Shane isn't good with kids is Shane. He's the person who will get really nervous and go "What do I even say to them? What if I do something mean? What do kids even like?"
Meanwhile, Shane:
"That's really cool stick tape, buddy! Oh, it was a gift from your aunt, because she knows you like dinosaurs? That's nice of her! I wish I could have dinosaurs on my stick tape. Have you seen dinosaur fossils at the museum?"
"Hey, it's okay to be scared of getting hit, but you can't let that stop you from doing your best. Nobody is going to be slamming into you here, and if that happens, we have a lot of people who are here just to help. Ready to get back out there?"
He talks about it with Ilya on their way to camp like "ugh I probably sounded so awkward, I know they like you better because you're fun." And Ilya has to "there, there" him while trying not to ruin the surprise that the campers has planned to give Shane a huge dinosaur-themed thank you card with all of their names and personal notes scribbled inside at the end of camp.
But is that really peace or is that putting yourself in solitary? Is that peace or is it just a lack of real human connection? And if nothing ever disturbs your peace does it really feel like peace or does it just feel like a safe nothingness? If the absence of a person that you love doesnât affect you at all, then is it really love between you? If their presence doesnât leave any mark, ever, on your life and your peace then is that really a true connection?
The price that we pay for real deep love and connection with another person is the sometimes inconvenient compromises that are made to accommodate someone other than yourself and the pain that we may feel if and/or when we lose them. Will it disturb your peace? Definitely. But man itâs fucking worth it
i also feel like celebrity and stan culture as a whole has just totally rotted peoples brains in terms of how to engage like there is straight up not an understanding that these are people. like think of your mom. yes your own mother. sheâs got a lot of bullshit going on right. sheâs also really capable in a lot of ways. and she did her best and it kinda sucked. the same is true of your friends right, they are flawed people living their lives the best they can and fucking up and doing harmful things and also doing great things and having a really beautiful inner world and experience that you can only glimpse the edges of. now what if i told you that was also true of every single person on this planet. have you never had to relate to a person in their complexity before? have you never had a coworker who was a shitty coworker and a fun person? or a teacher who was clearly going through a divorce and it was making him really mean and strict in class? like are you not able to just hold people where they are? ok now what if i told you ALL celebrities were also people experiencing this and having a lot of photos and interviews taken while they do it. there is no person out there who doesnât have a vibrant and complex and staggeringly beautiful inner world. yes that includes the professional athletes who canât spell. yes that includes the tiktok scammer. yes that includes the musician with pending assault charges. everyone is people in the same way that you yourself are a person and you cannot throw away people do you understand that!! you cannot throw away people!!
Ok so in the interest of fics being more realistic when it comes to Shane and Ilyas experiences as hockey players I am here to offer real life comparisons that you can look up and use as a reference for certain things.
First off, in terms of what Shaneâs experience as a kid growing up in Canada and dealing with hockey culture please look up Sidney Crosby. Look up his childhood experiences dealing with other players and other players parents. You will see very quickly what kinds of hazing and flat out harassment Shane was likely experiencing from the time he was a kid.
Second off, if you are writing about Shane and Ilya being out on the Centaurs together and how they would interact on the ice and in public and in the media please look up Marie Philip Poulin and Laura Stacey. They are a married couple who play together on the Montreal Victoire, a PWHL team, and they are a great reference for how Shane and Ilya would realistically behave and interact publicly.
There are def more these are just the two that I keep thinking about when I see stuff about Shaneâs experience with hockey culture and how the two of them would interact once theyâre out and on the same team. If you have more interesting real life references that you think would be useful, please add on!
Shaneâs final form once he is retired is Bigfoot impersonator. People know heâs alive bc heâs in the edges of Ilyaâs photos, he shows up for Irina foundation events, and maybe youâll see a hand on Rose or Svetlanaâs instagram every so often, his back on a Cenâs post.
âshane was trying to prove to himself that he was straight by dating roseâ âno, he knew he was queer, he was just trying to prove to himself that he liked womenâ folks i gotta be honest i donât think shane was thinking about his sexual identity when he dated rose, i think he was trying to prove to himself that he was Normal. like i donât think shane was thinking of himself in terms of gay vs bisexual or even attracted to men vs attracted to women, i think he was thinking of himself in terms of Mistake Iâve Been Making With Rozanov vs Normal Acceptable Expected Behavior I Need To Get Serious About Performing. like his actual desire and attraction is so divorced from his understanding of what heâs supposed to be doing as a masculine professional athlete that he doesnât even consider whether heâs attracted to rose when he dates her, or rather he avoids considering it until she forces him to. In My Opinion.
I will make a beautiful life for myself no matter how long it takes. I will I will I will
I need something I just donât know what it is yet
FREE MY MAN...