do you HC Jason Todd as POC
yes that boy is Latino
yes that boy is Wasian
yes he is indigenous to turtle Island (Native American)
he should be racially ambiguous
no he is as white as a White Walker

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@riftwindrider
do you HC Jason Todd as POC
yes that boy is Latino
yes that boy is Wasian
yes he is indigenous to turtle Island (Native American)
he should be racially ambiguous
no he is as white as a White Walker
What would Bruce have done if Jason's resurrection had gone correctly?
This is a serious question.
What would he have done? The evidence of Jason's murder is destroyed, Robin has been replaced, any mention of Jason within the manor has been removed (except the case,) Bruce has twisted Jason's story into a cautionary tale, separated himself so he presented as more of a guardian rather than his adoptive father.
What would Bruce have done if Jason pulled himself out of his grave, walked however many miles, and stood in front of Wayne Manor?
What would he tell his son? Seeing him, with all of the injuries of the crowbar and the explosion, what would he say to him? What justice would Bruce say he enacted in Jason's name? What has he done to bring justice to his murdered son?
I think the issue is, there is no correct way for it to have happened.
I see this a lot, particularly in fics, where it’s written like Jason was the one making it hard for himself, that Jason could’ve fixed everything if he’d just gone back to the manor. Which, holy victim blaming Batman. Once again the fault is assigned to Jason, even when it’s shown that he was not really cognitively there until much after he’d crawled out of his grave. But I think it comes down to two things.
Would Jason have gone back if he didn’t go to league? I say no. One, this goes back to before he died but he and Bruce were on pretty shaky terms when he died. Things between them had soured to the point that Jason felt that he had to go and find another parent, since Bruce would get rid of him now after stripping him of Robin. Which, the point isn’t about if that is something Bruce would’ve actually done, that doesn’t really matter here. What matters here is Jason truly believed that, and Bruce had done nothing to change that in the lead up to his death. With the way it was written, there is nothing to show that Jason would ever go back, not when he was so sure Bruce was wiping his hands of him. Second, Jason core fundamental beliefs and personality traits did not change when he died. They shifted to align with his life experience, but the fundamentals never changed. Jason always believed some people were beyond help, he believed that Gotham needed change. He was more radical, when he came back, but those core themes of protectiveness and morality did not change. Jason personality opposes Bruce in a way he could never reconcile, and they were essentially, built to break. I am a firm believer that their relationship was always going to and did deteriorate. I think it would’ve even if he hadn’t died.
Would Jason have been able to go back, even if the reunion happened differently?
No.
They are so morally opposed that I don’t think there’s ever a way they form a close relationship again. Not when their fundamental beliefs oppose one another. There is no way for them to exist peacefully without one of them becoming flexible with their morals. Which, it’ll never be Bruce, so it’ll always be Jason. But why does it have to be Jason? Arguably Jason has more foundation for his beliefs due to his lived experiences, but Bruce’s morality is seen as more valuable.
There was no happy ending, no happy reunion whether Jason went straight back or not. Really Jason and Bruce never worked in the first place. The relationship would’ve crumbled if Jason had’ve lived too, it wouldn’t have made a difference. Jason and Bruce’s father and son relationship was in ruin long before Jason took his last breath.
Who do you guys fancast for the robins?
jason should fake his death or something. not to sound evil or anything. but like. fake his death in a way where its IMPLIED that he might be dead, not necessarily determined, and do some missions out of the US for a couple months. maybe tell one or two trusted friends. then come back a little while later, refreshed and bright-eyed, and shoot the joker
Something I think is missed too is when comes to the discussion about Jason wanting the Joker dead, and the reasons why he wants the Joker dead.
It is canon that Jason was essentially erased. For identity reasons Bruce changed him out of his Robin uniformed and cleared up the crime scene. The Joker can never be prosecuted through the courts for the death of Jason Todd because as far as the world knows, he had nothing to do with it.
The other big thing is that his tenure as Robin is essentially erased as well. As far as the world is concerned, Robin went from Dick to Tim, there was no one in the middle. There was no second Robin. Everything good Jason did in the suit is attributed to Tim or Dick. The Teen Titan’s he was meant to join at 16 went to Tim, the recognition went to Tim.
Jason Todd becomes a foot note. A cautionary tale to the few that remember he existed. He is their doomed from the beginning story. That’s all he is. He isn’t remembered. Not as Jason Todd anyway, and in the few ways his tenure as Robin is remembered, they aren’t about him.
Nothing about Jason’s memory is about him.
Jason is angry at inaction. He is angry not that the world didn’t stop because he died, but because everyone acts as though he was never there before. He was buried in a public cemetery next to the woman that got him killed, while Bruce had his stuff packed away and photos hidden. The only thing in the manor that memorialises him is that stupid case, and that’s not even for him. It’s a manifestation of Bruce and Alfred’s guilt.
Jason didn’t expect them to fall apart because of his death, he never wanted that. He wanted to be remembered. He wanted to matter and everything that Bruce and Alfred did after Jason died was the opposite.
There was four people at his funeral. Bruce, Alfred, the funeral director and commissioner Gordon. Four people.
What about Eddie Bloomberg? What about Rena? What about Dick Grayson, his brother, who Bruce never called and never tried to even contact? What about Danny Chase, who he was friends with during his brief run on the titans? What about Jericho, who he was also shown as friendly with? What about any of the adult heroes who had known Jason?
Jason’s anger has never been solely because the Joker is alive. It’s because he died, knowing he was going to die and with the belief that it might serve in causing things to change for the better. But it hasn’t. It didn’t change anything. His death became a footnote in the story of Batman, a little line here and there and nothing more.
When Jason comes back to life the Joker is walking in and out of Arkham like it’s his holiday home. He quite literally still mostly has free run and the cycle of bullshit from before just keeps continuing. People keep dying. He wanted change, and that isn’t wrong.
I’m not endorsing the way he went about everything, but I think it’s pretty fucking understandable why he did. Bruce never offered another solution beyond letting the Joker walk in and out of Arkham’s revolving door as he pleases. Bruce didn’t upgrade Arkham’s security, he didn’t get him into a higher level prison, he didn’t use the phantom zone which he could’ve just asked Clark about. There is no reason that Bruce couldn’t have come up with another way to have Joker secured that wouldn’t have ended with Joker dead.
But he doesn’t give Jason any other viable option. Going back to Arkham doesn’t solve anything and Jason knows that. Jason sees Joker dying as the only viable solution to keeping victims safe. To keeping himself safe.
He wanted Bruce to allow him to kill the Joker. Bruce didn’t have to be the one to pull the trigger, Jason would’ve. What he wanted was for Bruce to prove what he’d said all that time ago, to prove that for once Jason could matter more than the mission.
(He never had. Not when he was Robin. Not when it was Gloria Stanson. Not when Bruce thought he was suicidal and he’d run away and Alfred’s freaking out Bruce still went after the Joker. He still chose the mission. He did it with Dick, he did it with Jason, he did it with Tim and he’s even now doing it with Damian. It’s a cycle, one not specific to Jason at all)
(I know Joker had a nuclear weapon, but Nruce was already talking to the Justice League about the Joker. The JL were helping and there is no reason he couldn’t have asked one of them to locate Jason, or asked that they takeover and handle Joker while he tracks down Jason. Because he never went to Lebanon to find Jason, he went to find Joker and happened to run into Jason while there. He even tells Jason this to his face)
Bruce had, not long before Jason died, talked to him about Felipe and Jose Garzonas. I’m pretty sure anyone who’s looked into Jason as a character knows about The Diplomat’s Son. It’s extremely relevant to DITF and what leads to Jason leaving the manor. In it, after Felipe falls to his death (it’s left ambiguous but I subscribe most to the idea that while Jason didn’t push him, he didn’t try to save him either, but that’s a matter of personal opinion) Jose goes mad with grief. He is hysterical (not whatever Bruce was in DITF) and goes after Batman and Robin to avenge his son’s death.
Jose Garzonas proceeds to die because Bruce knocks a stack of cars onto him, that Bruce then proceeds to turn around and blame entirely on Jason. But I think what matters most here for Jason’s future actions, is what Bruce proceeds to say before the comic ends.
Bruce says that Jose Garzonas actions in trying to kill them to avenge his son are only what could be expected of a father losing his son. That any parent who lost a kid would want revenge on the reason that child was gone. I don’t have the direct quote but that’s essentially the gist of it. Bruce set the expectation for a parent avenging their child, he tells Jason that’s what he should expect.
Except, Bruce didn’t do that.
(Yes I hear your arguments about Clark stopping him and I raise you my recent post about Clark’s involvement in DITF)
I just, there’s so much nuance to Jason beyond just wanting the Joker dead. It’s not just about that, it never has been.
Of course I don't hold Jason to the same standards as Batman and Nightwing and any other superhero, his morality and beliefs are nebulous at best, meaning he's not being a hypocrite when he does something bad or good. You can't say the same for superheroes though, they're the ones saying they can't lower themselves to the "lowly criminals" level or something of the like, me criticizing them for what they do/don't do is just me holding them up to their own standards.
help people are being weird about willis & catherine todd again :(
Bruce telling Jason to stop treating it like a game, and then saying that he can't kill joker, because then joker would win is peak parent behaviour
the thing about other characters victim blaming Jason’s memory is that I don’t understand why the major fandom reaction to that is to have to prove that jaybin was a good enough kid to mourn and not to make clear that, for a bunch of so-called heroes, talking shit about a brutally murdered child is disgusting and repulsive and awful in and of itself.
The victim-blaming of Jason Todd is such an ugly refutation of what his Robin was meant to stand for it’s depressing.
Worse yet the victim-blaming ultimately neither absolves Bruce nor works as a proper narrative patch for the hole his death left in the fantasy. If Jason wasn’t good enough to be Robin and Bruce’s greatest mistake was to give him the mantle, it’s still Bruce’s mistake for putting a vulnerable unprepared kid in the line of fire.
So now not only is the narrative making the ugly statement that actually, some people (*cough cough* poor and marginalized people) are not worthy of being empowered, and are better off keeping their head down than to try and make a positive impact, Bruce still looks like a total piece of shit.
I for one am comfortable with Bruce being a piece of shit. He’s a complex and flawed character etc etc. What I won’t stand for is Batman’s greatest mistake being believing in Robin; that condescending mess of a moral the story turned to. Bruce fucked up nine kinds of ways when he met Jason, but the one thing he got right was recognizing Jason’s worthiness to be a hero.
The child soldier issue is only an issue so long as we’re unable to articulate how it was Bruce’s continual failure to understand and provide for Jason’s needs as an individual and communicate with him, that created the precarious situation which lead to his death. (Bruce’s self-centerednsss leads to a teenager’s death twice after Steph.)
I don’t think it was an accident that Jason’s introduction included an arc where he found out Bruce hid his father’s death from him right as he officially became Robin. That was meant to be a wake-up call for Bruce. This boy isn’t Dick, he isn’t you. He doesn’t do this out of grief or out of anger. He is the will to do good given power, and to be his partner you must step outside of your own perspective.
it isnt that bruce failed jason one time its that he fails jason over and over and over he failed him when he hid willis todd’s murder, when he refused to trust his word about felipe garzonas, when he benched him without telling him why, when he left him on his own in ethiopia, when he used his death as a way to scare and guilt other robins into compliance, when he let his memorial say soldier instead of son, when he threw the batarang, when he beat his face in after rhato #25, when he took him back to where he died with no warning or prior conversation when jason would have done his best to help if he had just asked, when he used failsafe on jason to undermine his autonomy in such a traumatic way rather than oh i dont know USE IT ON THE JOKER
Outfits of Jason Todd, part 1 of 4 (pre-crisis edition)
Batman #357-363
Detective Comics #524-530
The New Teen Titans (1980) #33
Every non robin outfit Jason Todd wears in his 1980s comics. Outfits repeat to show off multiple angles. Images have the issue they're from written on them. Post-Crisis outfits will be a separate post that I'm still working on
Outfits of Jason Todd, part 2 of 4
(pre-crisis edition)
Batman #364-374
Detective Comics #531-441
The New Teen Titans (1980) #37
Am I the only one who likes Jason Todd betcest relationships when he is the one in charge of the relationship.
Every time I read a fic or a post about it people have Jason in these relationships mostly to hurt Jason and give Tim, Dick, or Bruce control over a character who has very little control and the control he does have he has fought for.
P.S. (Jason can still be a bottom and be a Dom at the same time)
P.S.S. Fuck Bruce Wayne
And then inevitably if we all post too much scar discourse in the tags some stupid fuck is gonna be like "unlike SOME Jason todd fans I can handle him being ugly instead of super model hot 🙄🥴" ITS ABOUT THE SINGLING OUT. ITS ABOUT THE SINGLING OUT. ITS ABOUT THE HISTORY OF SCARS AND DISABILITIES BEING USED TO SIGNIFY AN EVIL CHARACTER BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE WHO "DESERVE IT". ITS ABOUT SCARS BEING USED TO SIGNIFY DIRTINESS AND ROUGHNESS BEING ONLY GIVEN TO A FORMER HOMELESS CHARACTER. ITS ABOUT HOW NONE OF THE OTHER VIGILANTE TEAM WHO'VE BEEN WORKING LONGER THAN JASON AND WITH LESS ARMOR HAVE ANY SCARS AT ALL. GIVE HIM AS MANY SCARS AS YOU FUCKING WANT AS LONG AS THE OTHER CHARACTERS FOLLOW SUIT "oh but I just want to represent how bad his death was. Oh but all of the others have secret identities to deal with so they just pay to remove them or something" JASON HAS NO SCARS FROM DEATH DUE TO THE PIT AND HOW IT WORKS. AND EVEN IF HE DID HE STILL SHOULDNT HAVE SO MANY MORE SCARS THAN EVERYONE ELSE. AND AN IN UNIVERSE EXPLANATION DOESNT DO SHIT FOR THE REAL LIFE IMPLICATIONS.
AND STOP CALLING SCARS UGLY??!?!?!! And how many people insist Jason is canonically ugly while insisting he should be heavily scarred while every other character is a blank slate is a whole other can of worms
ITS NOT ABOUT "scars bad" "scars yucky" "Jason should be hot I don't want him ugly 🥺" It's about EXCLUSIVELY giving scars to the former homeless former villain character AND LITERALLY NO ONE ELSE
Thinking about jasons gayass pose again
Why the fuck would Tim be the first person to find out Red Hood was actually Jason Todd :|
He's not smart enough for that, and he wasn't even in Gotham during uth (pretty sure).
Plus, that just takes away from Jason giving Bruce hints about who he was until he literally revealed himself which is 100x more interesting. Its about Jason and Bruce. Not fucking Tim Drake, keep him out of it.
Fucking pisses me off.