I don't know... is there something weird going on with the specific memories that were mentioned to the mindflayer/Vecna during Will's possession... ?
Like... Vecna's done something to those memories, those dates... like he's stolen them, or hidden them from the minds of Will and the others who were present at the time. Because they had power over him last time.
March 22nd. Will's birthday. It's just... gone.
Drawing the rainbow spaceship? Building Castle Byers? Maybe they're gone too.
And what about "Do you remember the first day we met?"
Mike saying "I feel like my life started the day we found you in the woods" to El because the memory of meeting Will on the swingset, asking him to be his friend... it's gone.
Watching this video and him getting more and more disappointed as the episode goes on is chilling me ngl. This is the version of the script that didn't even have the tower scene in it btw, so this is him as a queer actor realising that they gave his character absolutely no closure and a shitty arc where he "realises" that the love of his life was just a crush to get over in a day without anything from said crush to determine if he's fine with that. He's been the *gay consultant* for the show since the beginning and he was so excited to read the script for episode 4 when he had powers, he probably was excited to see where his characters' powers took the character arc but no, they really just gave him nothing in this episode and the fact he was terrified to go up to the Duffers and ask for a little scene change speaks volumes.
Omg wait birthdaygateā¦ SO DID THE WRITTERS ACTUALLY FORGET???? VECNA DOESNT EVEN USE THE FACT THAT HIS FRIENDS AND FAMILY FORGOT HIS BIRTHDAY AGAINST HIM????? Bruhhhhh wtf thereās so much shit that just makes no sense now I canāt believe we had so much faith in the writers š
Rewatching s2 rn and I got to the scene where they tied Will up and reminded him of things, and it got me thinking: What if thereāll be a flashback in s5 to wills 8th birthday and thatās why they needed young actors to play young will,Mike and Jonathan (and will probably be anything to do with the characters forgetting Willās birthday in s4)
hope it makes sense bc Iām not smart enough for these st theories
for fun because you get lots of doubt asks - do you have a favorite byler gate/theory and if so which one? :) ALSO HAPPY STRANGER THINGS 5 RELEASE MONTHHHHH š«¶š«¶š«¶š«¶
My favorite Byler Gate is ALWAYS birthdaygate!
This is my post on it, but the main reason I like it so much is it puts Will back in the center of the narrative. It shows how important he is to Vecna if he feels that he needs to do this much to isolate Will.
It also shows how important community is to Stranger Things - how important it is to have people you can rely on.
hello!! what is your opinion on noah disproving birthdaygate? me personally, i hope he's just lying to not spoil a major plotline cause i love birthdaygate and i feel like it would be such a wasted opportunity, but what do you think of the video?
It did disappoint me for a moment, but then I sort of remembered that I never 100% believed in the theory so I was like... eh whatever. I understand people thinking that he's lying, maybe he is, but I personally think he's not, unfortunately. Could be one of those instances like, for example, when he had to say that Will wasn't gay online to reduce spoilers for S4, but along with my disbelief in the theory itself, I just don't see him lying </3
It's good for me to see that he is actually capable of denying a theory tbh, because I used to think that he was just the type to drum up excitement about literally anything and go.. "who knows??? heehee" about anything, meaning Byler would be one of those things, leading to him being a less credible source for Byler. But now, it just makes it clearer that he is able to disprove theories and everything, and if he can do that, then he should have done that with Byler by now. Instead, we got that something "went right" for Will, we got that we were always supposed to question whether Mike and Will were just friends or romantic, we got that we will be hap- satisfied ;), and we got various other things he's said i dont remember lol.
As for the theory being disproven, I'm not that upset about it now. It does suck that it kind of implies that the Duffers did just forget about this detail in their show, but lately they've really been showing their genuine love towards Will's character and time and time again, they've stated that this show is fundamentally about outcasts and about Will's arc and the emotional arc of the show hinges on Will. Birthdaygate was a very cool theory, esp the part about the memory, but all it really hinged on beforehand was the little details and the very specific guesswork of the narrative and where it's going. I liked it, but honestly, I didn't realise how many people genuinely thought it was going to happen in S5 š lmao. We genuinely have no idea about the really specific stuff like that, most probably. I mean, we had no idea that S4 would turn out that way did we? So yeah.
It's not a big deal to me now. I mean, at the time I was like aw man :( but I don't think we should get too down about it, as it wasn't a theory for Byler endgame, tbh. Just a theory about where Will's arc could go with Vecna.
This would be a funny post if it turned out he lied,,,,,,,
As the person who made the initial birthdaygate post about how it could be something to do with memories/the shed scene in S2, Iām pretty chill about this recent revelation from Noah.
Iām disappointed, but at the end of the day it was just a fun theory that popped into my head, and then I became desperate to share it on here. I was never certain my theory would be proven right, just very hopeful.
The only thing this does is make me a little more concerned about how this managed to slip the netā¦ itās just so bizarre to think it was a genuine mistake they made, and I canāt help but question the duffers/writersā abilities a little more.
That being said, Iām still going to hold out a bit of hope that Noah could be lying (although unfortunately my instinct here is that he isnāt š)
Iām gonna feel so gaslit if this was a well-rehearsed answer from Noah
Hello!! What do you think of Noah disproving birthdaygate in the recent interview? I personally hope he's just lying to avoid spoiling because I love birthdaygate and I feel like it would be such a wasted opportunity :(
I hopw he is just playing a David Harbour at us, I really love the concept of birthdaygate and just like you anon, I think it would be such a wasted opportunity to not make it canon, but let's just wait, hope, and see š
hello!! what is your opinion on noah disproving birthdaygate? me personally, i hope he's just lying to not spoil a major plotline cause i love birthdaygate and i feel like it would be such a wasted opportunity, but what do you think of the video?
It did disappoint me for a moment, but then I sort of remembered that I never 100% believed in the theory so I was like... eh whatever. I understand people thinking that he's lying, maybe he is, but I personally think he's not, unfortunately. Could be one of those instances like, for example, when he had to say that Will wasn't gay online to reduce spoilers for S4, but along with my disbelief in the theory itself, I just don't see him lying </3
It's good for me to see that he is actually capable of denying a theory tbh, because I used to think that he was just the type to drum up excitement about literally anything and go.. "who knows??? heehee" about anything, meaning Byler would be one of those things, leading to him being a less credible source for Byler. But now, it just makes it clearer that he is able to disprove theories and everything, and if he can do that, then he should have done that with Byler by now. Instead, we got that something "went right" for Will, we got that we were always supposed to question whether Mike and Will were just friends or romantic, we got that we will be hap- satisfied ;), and we got various other things he's said i dont remember lol.
As for the theory being disproven, I'm not that upset about it now. It does suck that it kind of implies that the Duffers did just forget about this detail in their show, but lately they've really been showing their genuine love towards Will's character and time and time again, they've stated that this show is fundamentally about outcasts and about Will's arc and the emotional arc of the show hinges on Will. Birthdaygate was a very cool theory, esp the part about the memory, but all it really hinged on beforehand was the little details and the very specific guesswork of the narrative and where it's going. I liked it, but honestly, I didn't realise how many people genuinely thought it was going to happen in S5 š lmao. We genuinely have no idea about the really specific stuff like that, most probably. I mean, we had no idea that S4 would turn out that way did we? So yeah.
It's not a big deal to me now. I mean, at the time I was like aw man :( but I don't think we should get too down about it, as it wasn't a theory for Byler endgame, tbh. Just a theory about where Will's arc could go with Vecna.
This would be a funny post if it turned out he lied,,,,,,,
As the person who made the initial birthdaygate post about how it could be something to do with memories/the shed scene in S2, Iām pretty chill about this recent revelation from Noah.
Iām disappointed, but at the end of the day it was just a fun theory that popped into my head, and then I became desperate to share it on here. I was never certain my theory would be proven right, just very hopeful.
The only thing this does is make me a little more concerned about how this managed to slip the netā¦ itās just so bizarre to think it was a genuine mistake they made, and I canāt help but question the duffers/writersā abilities a little more.
That being said, Iām still going to hold out a bit of hope that Noah could be lying (although unfortunately my instinct here is that he isnāt š)
Iām gonna feel so gaslit if this was a well-rehearsed answer from Noah
Today we're going to be talking about my beloved Birthdaygate.
no I did not come up with birthdaygate but I love her so I figured I would dedicate a post to her. because people treat birthdaygate like any other byler-gate? NO it's better!
So the core of this theory really starts in Season 2 - which as we know has a lot of themes of spying. When Mike proposes that Will could use his newfound ability to tap into the mind of shadow monster to spy on it. Will postulates that the shadow monster could spy back.
And spy back He does.
In the shed scene, trying to get Will's consciousness back, they recall the following memories:
His Birthday
Building Castle Byers
The Day Mike and Will First Met
And in quicker succession.
Jonathan showing Will "should I stay or should I go"
A game of DnD
Will giving up his Tonka truck to a little girl.
In Season 4 in the Nina Project, Dr. Brenner tells El that Henry takes his victims memories and their powers "everything they ever were and everything they ever will be" - I'm not sure if he took El's memories when she banished him to Dimension X, or if it was just the overexertion. Does "victim" mean his kills? Or anyone he hurts?
We don't know the extent of Vecna's ability to take memories - but we can speculate.
Memory number 1. The whistleblower to this theory. Will's birthday is March 22nd.
Now this wasn't true in season 1. During Will's funeral there are programs that display his birth date and, of course his death date.
(Now I personally remember seeing this on screen when season 1 came out, like a full pan of the pamphlet, which is not in the show now. But it might be the mandela effect.)
So between seasons 1 and 2, the Stranger Things writers all sat down and planned out the rest of the show. Now, I'm sure the specifics were a bit blurry back then, but the general plan was set in motion, and part of that plan, evidently, meant that Will's birthday had to be changed. They couldn't just go with what they'd put on a random prop.
There are other posts that go into all the details in the show that show or mention birthdays in season 4 - and it's extensive, but I want to explore the further implications of this.
First - why erase these memories. And mind you - Vecna's not necessarily erasing Will's memory, but the memories of the people in Will's life.
Well, in seasons 1 and 2, what was it that ended up saving Will from the Vecna, the Upside Down, and the Mind Flayer? Ultimately, it was the fact that Will had people who loved him. People who wouldn't let him die.
And this concept of your community, your found family, being there for you is a major theme throughout the series.
The only way (that we know of) to save someone from a Vecna trance is to play their favorite, meaning someone has to be there to play that song for you.
In Kamchatka, Hopper talks about feeling like he's cursed. Everyone he touches, he hurts. That he shouldn't have called on Joyce to get him out of there because in doing so he signed her death warrant. But he was right to call for help. He was right to lean on others.
The biggest thing that can save you from the Upside Down is connection.
And during the shed scene, Vecna/the Mind Flayer see that, and they use those memories, the ones that brought Will to the surface, to disconnect Will from his friends and family - making him vulnerable.
We see Vecna use this with his other victims as well - Max distanced herself from the party leading up her eventual possession. Vecna wanted vulnerable teens, who didn't have anyone who would be there to save them.
So to dissect the disconnection of Will Byers...
Memory 2 - Castle Byers
The safe haven that Jonathan and Will built together, heralding the all friends are welcome. Destroyed.
And uh... I'll just leave this here...
Memory 3 - The Day Mike and Will First Met
What happened to asking will to be your friend being the best thing you ever did, Mike?
And I think there's going to be further exploration of this in Season 5 - what with the MiWi flashback(s?) in Episode 4
Memory 4 - DnD
The very earliest sign of Will beginning to become disconnected from his friends. When Will finds himself looking back at his rapidly crumbling childhood and wants to rekindle old, happier times, he finds himself abandoned by his friends.
Which leaves two memories unaffected - Should I Stay or Should I Go, and the Tonka Truck memory.
I believe that people in Will's life could forget about Should I Stay or Should I Go in the moment he most needs it - like under the threat of Vecna. Or alternatively, they may have forgotten the song but hearing it again will trigger all their forgotten memories of Will.
As for the Tonka Truck memory I think there's a chance that the others forget Will's generous put-others-before-myself nature - making them more susceptible to believe that Will could have joined forces with Vecna.
Of course, my thoughts on those last two memories are highly, highly speculative.
So when in season three and season four, we see Will take more of a backseat in the narrative. I believe that it is because the mind flayer/Vecna is taking a more patient approach. Rather than making their move right now to try and get their hands on will, they need to eliminate the thing that prevented them from doing so the first two times. Will's connections.
Hello š Iām the original poster of this theory regarding the memories being taken/messed with (my pinned post is what blew up in the tag, and got everyone discussing it back in 2022).
āBirthdaygateā had already been coined, but back then it was just a bunch of fans insisting that Willās birthday was going to be narratively relevant, and that the Dufferās hadnāt forgotten about it.
Then I made my pinned post about the mindflayer/Vecna listening in on the memories in S2, and the theory completely exploded! I wasnāt expecting it to get so much traction. It spread to other platforms and, over time, my memory theory became conflated with birthdaygate!
Anyway Iāve not been online much in the years since BUT I just happened to come across your post and I want to say thank you for explaining it all in such a thorough, detailed way! āØ
