#cl anon asks

[celaenaeiln]

“batman loves his nightwing” this and “batsibs love nightwing that”, what about the batsibs’ friends / team loving nightwing ‼️‼️

YES!!! They love him!

The thing about Dick Grayson is that he has such a unique quality that just draws people in and holds them captive.

Titans (2016) Issue #26

He has a charisma that's intense. People from all walks of life find themselves just constantly looking at him for friendship, advice, love, guidance, and just something that calls them to him.

It's the impact he has on people that's astounding.

Titans (2016) Issue #27

They love him so much and they respect him so much that his absence is like a huge gaping hole in their chest. People feel lost without him because they've come to rely so heavily on him. Gar and Steel literally only joined because Dick asked.

This is something Roy catches on to and is well-aware of. He practically hounds Dick into creating the Outsiders with him.

Outsiders (2003) Issue #1

But you think Roy is the only one to capitalize on Dick's Nightwing effect? Hell no.

Titans East Special

Dick isn't just a person. He's a home. He's the guiding hand and the ship's steer control. He's special to people because he's everything they want him to be. He's their lover, best friend, brother, and partner. Whatever role they're missing in life they find it him him because he makes himself versatile enough to fill whatever they're looking for.

Dark Crisis Issue #1

We say batsibs' teams but he's the whole Justice community's everything. He fills the connections of both Batman's side and Superman's side.

He IS the most well-connected person in the entire community.

Teen Titans (2003) Issue #23

Look at what Kon says -

"Nightwing and Starfire brought wave two. Which is just about everyone whose ever been a Titan. It's a natural thing when Nightwing shows up. None of us are conscious of it, really--but we all look to him for orders. Robin's lucky."

The sheer respect. That Kon has for Nightwing is indomitable. Oh, but you think that's all?

Do you know what the superhero community says about Nightwing? Kon will tell you what they think -

Teen Titans (2003) Issue #33

The Titans (1999) Issue #39

He calls. They answer.

Hero-worship of Nightwing is canonically universal. Renaming this the Nightwing Effect

Epilson

The Titans (1999)

Red Condor

Nightwing (2016) Annual #3

Hutch

Nightwing (2016) Issue #75

Kara

Justice League of America (2006) Issue #49

Supergirl (2005) Issue #3

And sometimes this means more than friendship love but still born out of respect. It's so funny to me how Dick goes around friendzoning people.

Cassie

Even when people don't like what he wants they still do it because they respect him. Because he had an impact on them and they were were moved

Titans (2003) Issue #89

Aquaman, Ollie, John (Green Lantern)

JLA (1997) Issue #121

Kyle Rayner

Even people he's just met are like - this guy's pretty good!

Green Lantern (1990) Issue #81

Coming from a Green Lantern comic!! Not even a Wondergirl, Wonderwoman, Batman, or Nightwing writer. A green lantern!

Speaking of which, when Hal Jordon dies, a list of people are selected to be The Hal Jordon's replacement and guess who it is?

Action Comics (1938) Issue #642

Hal forces his soul back into his body and comes back to life but DC does a "what-if" thing and shows what it would be like if Dick actually became a Green Lantern.

Superman/Batman Issue #60

AND BRUCE'S REACTION!! His most favorite son combined with one of his least favorite people 🤣🤣

Superman/Batman Issue #60

But Bruce's faith in Dick actually elavtes his opinion of Hal.

ALSO!!-

Superman/Batman Issue #61

I JUST KNOW THAT BRUCE WAS WRITHING IN JEALOUSY!!

But anyway, shows to prove that no matter who Dick is and what identity he takes, he will always be the love of the hero community. Because in this world, each member is a combination of the Justice League AND the Titans.

Superman/Batman Issue #60

Yet Dick is still the center of it all.

A literal god

Nightwing (2016) Issue #49

Jon and the hero community

Justice League: Road to Dark Crisis Issue #1

"It would mean a LOT to people if you came and said--" "You're all overreacting." "We need you."

"You're all overreacting." - Clearly, this isn't the first time someone has already come to Dick about being the center of the community.

Not just by the batfam, but for everyone Dick is the most beloved person in the community. That is a fact.

[celaenaeiln]

I always assumed that from the comics I've read dick seems to have a somewhat complicated relationship with his own gender/sexuality/sex status, etc.

Anon!! You can't just drop this on me and leavee!! I need to hear more!! LEMME HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS!!!

Ok so this is gonna be like three different things so I'll make subcategories.

Gender

Of the things listed. I think gender is the one thing Dick is rather set on/secure about. He has some feminine or softer traits which typically would not be associated with a male character such as empathy and caring to an overemotional aspect -

Joker: Last Laugh Issue #3

Nightwing (1996) Issue #86

Nightwing (1996) Issue #139

Being overly kind to an unappreciative and toxic girlfriend is one thing, but as a brother hugging and kissing a brother? It's a little softer than how people usually write male heroes.

He's male and I don't think he's considered switching to the female side because he's comfortable with his masculinity.

Does he do things like this -

Nightwing (2016) Issue #38

sometimes? Yeah. He takes the female role in his relationships with others such as Bruce and Barbara but he still very much sees himself as masculine. Like I said in another post, Kori asks him to be a male consort to her Queen because she was forced to marry a royal Tamaranian Prince. While male consorts are not unusual in history, they typically embody the female in a stereotypical relationship. (On a separate note, did you know Chinese emperors took on male consorts? It is circumvented when speaking about in the present and laters days but it's officially written down in the books).

But overall, Dick is very much a masculine male with feminine qualities.

Sexuality

Ok so the thing about Dick and sexuality is that Dick Grayson is a very, VERY old character. He's been there since the beginning of DC to the point that he was the third DC character created EVER. Clark, then Bruce, then Dick, AND THEN Wonder Woman.

So with a character this old and with a topic as controversial as sexuality, DC is not going to ever explicitly write Dick as gay or bi or whatever. Why? Because Dick is an icon.

When someone says "Batman and Robin" - EVERYONE knows who Batman and Robin is. Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson. They've existed forever and are the kingpins of DC alongside Superman and Wonder Woman. Whether that person is in the fandom or not, they know who Batman and Robin are. Within the fandom, people know there's more than one Robin (several) but talking to someone outside the fandom, someone who enjoys DC casually, only thinks there is one Robin. And you could tell them that there's this many robins, some have been girls, there's this many timelines and etc (which is actually a really embarrassing convo if someone isn't in the fandom OMG and how I wish I could take that back and erase it from BOTH OF OUR MEMORIES) - but they're not gonna care. Because for them, there's only one Robin and that's Dick Grayson.

So with something like that, DC cannot have Dick Grayson be anything but straight because it would cause too big of an uproar. So he can't be. Explicitly. People have written him as having an ambiguous sexuality though. I actually wrote this specific POST a long time because someone wanted to know more.

Instead what you'll have is a BUNCH of BROMANCES. His Nightwing authors have wanted more male/male sexual attractions with him and other characters and some of them have admitted that openly even if they were not allowed to write. So if you're reading a comic that has him and something seems SUS, well it might just be.

So like with all things, I cannot say anything for certain unless there is evidence of him engaging in a romantic relationship with someone who isn't a woman, but given the homoerotic tension that exists between him and other characters such as ROY -

Outsiders (2003) Issue #11

Teen Titans: Silver Age TPB 2 (Part 4) Page 16

Nightwing (1996) Issue #114

WHICH IS ODDLY SIMILAR TO THIS -

Nightwing (1996) Issue #138

I'd say he's bi-curious at the least.

Sex Symbol Status

-this is my previous post which goes a little into the sex symbol thing

Anon, holy crap I have an ESSAY for you. It's in my drafts because it's wayyyyyyyyy too long and I'll definitely exceed the image limit but holy crap.

Here's what I will say about it though. The world REVERES Dick for his looks and body. The amount of attention he gets for his beauty is ridiculous. Even Green Arrow's half-sister - WHO'S MUCH YOUNGER THAN DICK AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF DICK MET - dreams about him romantically.

Green Arrow (2016) Annual_1

Because of course. Villains are going out of their way to compliment him on his looks in the middle of a fight - Bane, Bludhaven villains, civilians (MALE) coworkers - it's literally insane.

So Dick is clearly the hottest and most gorgeous thing to ever exist in the entirety of DC. There's also a panel from a comic where Dick becomes Talon AND SOMEONE STILL CALLS HIM THE PRETTY BOY TALON LIKE WTF??? THAT PRETTY BOY TALON CAN RIP OFF YOUR HEAD IN A HEARTBEAT! He's a talon, too! Clearly death does not hinder his looks in any way.

But Dick himself is VERY uncomfortable any sort of bodily attraction. It's not just the comments that gets him but he, who everyone claims has the body of a god, doesn't feel good about his own body.

The New Titans (1988) Issue #71

He's really conservative. And in another comic when Tim comments on how the the Nightwing suit is really a babe attractor, Dick is uncomfortable going 'I didn't make it for them'.

Like even looking at this comic pic where Dick is in disguise and he and Kori are just walking down the street, they both still attract the entire street's attention. It must be so uncomfortable.

Here's my thoughts on the sex symbol status. Yes, Dick is a sex symbol. That's just fact. But here's where the issue is. People can be sex symbols without it affecting their personality because that status, is something given to them or bestowed upon them by another person.

I'm leaning a little into my post in the drafts but Johnny Depp, Marylyn Monroe, David Bowie, Tom Cruise, Cleopatra - they're all so vastly different on their opinions of sexual liberty and yet all of them as considered sex symbols.

So what does this mean for Dick? Nothing, really. It just means the world takes one look at him and wants him but he is under no obligation to follow through nor does he. He's not a slut for sleeping with the people he likes and no one thinks of him that way either. He was slut-shamed after his rape by Pantha who always has some harsher opinions because that is her personality. She literally says the meanest things about everyone because she's a rough and tough character and she finds humor in being mean because she is who she is.

For Dick himself, it means nothing. He doesn't view himself as attractive which ironically is also what celebrities who were interviewed about the sex symbol status said as well, such as Johny Depp.

The problem with being beautiful though is that people brush you off. Certain girlfriends of his do it. They see him as just a pretty boy and writers of certain comics *cough* Batgirl comics writers and Tom Taylor *cough* throw his skills and talent down the garbage disposal so he can act as a dumb pretty boy toy for his girlfriend. His personality is degraded to a bland white paste and his intelligence and power and pain are thrown out the window.

(This POST gives some examples of when writers do this for Dickbabs)

Like this is a serious problem! I read this article some time ago -

Here are the main highlights:

There isn't a problem with Dick being ascribed a sex symbol status and to his great benefit most people don't treat him like this but some do! LIKE HIS GIRLFRIEND.

In summary, and I'm gonna borrow a lyric here to quote -

"It's hell on earth to be heavenly Them's the breaks, they don't come gently"

I think the problem is, instead of focusing on how beautiful Dick looks, I really feel like DC and the fandom should analyze how uncomfortable Dick gets, how certain comics force him into relationships when others clearly show he wouldn't be interested in a parallel situation, and mostly how Dick Grayson is robbed of his personality, identity, and beliefs all because of how people believe he should act due to his beauty.

I'm honestly tired of the equation that Dick's status as a sex symbol somehow reduces him to a slut. He is not. Instead we should focus on how his beauty is weaponized against him. He was born with those looks and complaining about them is useless. That's his mother and father-given appearance. It's his genetic inheritance. It's as much a part of his as his grace or his unyielding kindness.

The real issue isn't DC’s acknowledgment of his beauty—it's the utter failure to dig deeper. Instead we should explore how Dick deals with it. How does he carry the weight of being constantly objectified? What does it do to his relationships? How is he coerced to do something in a relationship because it is expected of simply due to the fact that he's beautiful? We should explore how people (even the batfam sometimes) only see his smile or good-natured humor while his complexities - his pain, his resilience, his brilliance - are shucked aside? He's constantly diminished by the fandom and canon because of his cheery personality and good looks just to fit a particular character's narrow view of him.

Call him pretty! Dick legit doesn't care if villains call him pretty or someone calls him that because what they're really focused on when they call him that, are his skills. He doesn't mind being called pretty, beautiful, gorgeous - as long as he's valued for his talents and efforts and skills.

(Here's the pretty boy post for my lovelies. Part 2 in the making)

The issue, once again, isn't his sex symbol status or his looks. It's literally everything else. Dick Grayson is not a reflection of what others project; he is a someone who stands apart, vibrant, and irreducibly whole. Which too often gets lost underneath his looks.

[celaenaeiln]

Hiii, how are you? I’m new in the Batman fandom, but i saw a lot of people saying that Jason is actually Batman’s favorite child, and when i was reading the comics, i really though that Dick is Bruce absolute favorite, but i saw a lot of posts here on tumblr of the fandom saying is actually Jason and that the batkids all know its Jason, but i don’t know what is canon and what is fanon (quite honestly when it comes about the batfam i don’t like a lot about the fanon version 😭), so i wanted to ask you about it

And sorry if i said something wrong, english is not my first language

Hi and no worries at all!!

Yeah, canonically Dick is Bruce's favorite by a LONG shot and canonically the batkids all know this.

Infinite Crisis Issue #3

It's says right here in the comics. Really explicitly. But not only that, time and time again, there is clear evidence of Bruce's preferential treatment of Dick over the rest of the batkids.

One time the batboys and Bruce are searching for a guy that kinda is using the Gotham criminals as his subjects. So what they decide to do is split up to narrow him down.

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #1057

But they run into issues because the villains chose a 'divide and conquer strategy"

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #1057

Bruce gets swept away! Because of a carefully planned trap. But do you what he does the second he wakes up?

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #1058

JDAKFA;BFJALEC

BRUCE LITERALLY WENT: "I love Dick and all the other not-Dicks equally" !!!!!

As if that's not enough, Bruce's biggest fear is that he's not good enough for Dick.

Bruce's fear about Dick-

Batman vs Robin Issue #3

because he believes this -

vs

Bruce's fear about Jason -

Batman vs Robin Issue #3

because he believed he failed to do this -

Batman: Hush

Reminder: Joe Chill is Martha and Thomas Wayne's killer. Enough said.

If you want to be even more explicit about Bruce's preference for Dick over Jason it can't be clearer than here:

Bruce reflects on Jason's Robin tenure -

Batman (1940) Issue #428

Something a lot of people don't know/refuse to acknowledge is that Jason canonically did have anger issues. There aren't a lot of parallels between Jason and Dick but one particular thing that DC points out is that Jason and Dick both lost their beloved fathers. The difference is that Dick was able to move on and become cheerful even if he didn't get revenge. Jason wasn't able to get over the loss of his father and became angry. UTRH makes a specific point of talking about this too.

Batman (1940) Issue #645 "He knew that Jason Todd was NOT Dick Grayson."

Do you remember why Jason became Robin?

Batman (1940) Issue #416

Bruce wanted Dick. He took in Jason in replacement for Dick. But Jason was not Dick and even on the day he died, all Bruce could think of was that taking in Jason was a mistake.

The batkids are well aware of this. Damian actually calls Jason Bruce's mistake too when he's recounting the story of the robins.

Here's what he says -

Batman (1940) Issue #713

That's Damian's retelling. Tim's is even worse -

A Lonely Place of Dying

Ouch.

Truthfully Jason is like Bruce's 4th favorite. In order of how much Bruce loves his kids it goes:

Dick

Damian

Cass

Jason/Tim (tie)

Tim/Jason (tie)

Steph

I think there's so much confusion about Jason supposedly being the favorite because Bruce grieved over Jason's that but I think a lot of people are conflating grief and self-blame with love. There have been two significant deaths in the family: Jason and Damian. If you look at how Bruce reacted in each aftermath, it becomes clear that he loves Damian more than he loved Jason.

After Jason's death:

Batman (1940) Issue #429

Batman (1940) Issue #431

After Damian's death:

Batman and Robin (2011) Issue #21

Batman and Robin (2011) Issue #20

He would forcefully make Jason relive the worst day of his life so that his other son could enjoy his.

Bruce's behavior after Jason's death was self-destructive and isolative but his behavior after Damian's death was to beat bloodly every single criminal. His reasoning for beating Dick after Jason's death was "Jason was your replacement. If you hadn't left I wouldn't have had to take him in and he wouldn't have died." His reason for beating Jason after Damian's death was "Your trauma matters so little to mean that all I want is Damian to live again and I couldn't care less about how you feel."

In summary, Jason wasn't Bruce's favorite either as Robin or as an adult. But even if it's not Dick, claiming that Jason is the favorite is so far off that no one is DC would remotely believe it. You would think there would be more analysis on Damian's death in comparison to Jason's because they were two big official deaths but I guess not for some reason. I ran out of image space but yeah there's more than just this overall. This isn't to say that Bruce doesn't love Jason. NO! He very much loves him. But he just doesn't love him the most.

On a different note - coming from someone who went from TT show to YJ to fanfic AND THEN reading comics, I've had relearn a lot about each of the characters. But for people still in the process of transitioning from fanfic to comics or just in the fanfic stage, general rule of thumb when it comes to batfamily content - NEVER trust what people say if they don't provide the evidence for it. People in this fandom are so wild that they'll have you believing the earth is the center of the universe, that you'll fall off the world if you go too far left or right, and that pigs can fly.

[celaenaeiln]

would love to hear your thoughts / opinions / analysis of the whole “everyone loves dick grayson” thing !

best part is it's canon.

Dick is like the baby of the Justice League. Whatever he wants-he gets. He wants a team? Only the best for him.

Dick's like- yeah no thanks I got my own team to which J'onn is like seriously, child? Well, fineeeeeee. If you reallyyyy want that but just letting you know we got the best candidates lined up for you anytime.

He has Wonder Woman's adoration and respect especially with her chiding the green Martian for even doubting Dick for a second:

-I know you like your room but we think you deserve better so here's a mansion. Only the best for you, sweetie

Saw this post online by lee cain Jr. that explains it pretty aptly:

No but really, he is everyone's favorite. He's the only person in the dc universe that has the undivided loyalty and admiration of every person imaginable including villains.

Heroes in general just love him and want to help him

Any help he wants they're more than delighted to do it.

Or just to protect him

I made a post earlier about how he's all the kids' favorite.

And also another one about him being the batfamily's favorite.

Tim also goes on a suicide mission despite knowing that it's a suicide mission just to save Dick because he loves him.

Ofcourse Bruce's too

But on top of that, the Titans are always willing to go to hell for him.

Donna's the one who comes out and says it straight but the way titans reacted why Dick died after forever evil?

The only reason the titans joined together is because Dick asked them. They grieved. Their teamwork completely fell apart and their mission went way sideways.

Bludhaven loves him like crazy.

The city of crime will raise their pitchforks and machine guns if you hurt him

He's just everyone's favorite. The hero of heroes.

[celaenaeiln]

Was Dick ever mean to Jason when they first met? Because I’ve seen a lot of fanon where it’s implied/shown that he was, but I haven’t seen anything to prove that it’s canon (and I’m happy you’re back even though you weren’t gone long I love your blog)

Aww thank you!!

Ugh I don't know where fanon keeps getting the idea but Dick was never mean to Jason as Robin.

Let's start with the erased version, otherwise known as pre-crisis.

Jason Todd was born to acrobatic parents and also performed in the circus. Here's the interesting bit: it wasn't Bruce who found out about them, it was Dick who was at the circus and cheered them.

Batman (1940) Issue #357

Where was Bruce? He was busy becoming squid food in Gotham.

Anyway Bruce escapes and meets up with Dick who is still Robin and helps him solve part of the crime. As he's discussing the case with Dick, Dick mentions that there may be a connection to Bruce's case and something Trina Todd said.

Yup! Dick becomes friends with Jason's mom <3

Batman (1940) Issue #358

Bruce doesn't trust her but Dick does and Bruce trusts Dick so he accepts.

So Dick goes to meet Trina and her husband but they've already left to sneak into the villain's lair and get caught by Killer Croc. So he chases after them. Barbara joins in as Batgirl but Batgirl and Robin are too late because Killer Croc has already fed Joe and Trina to crocodiles.

Batman's still fighting his own case while all this is happening.

Waldo the Clown takes Jason to the manor and while Jason's in the kitchen looking for food, he finds the door behind the grandfather clock open, goes inside, and finds the batcave.

He finds a trunk of Dick's old suits as Robin and that's where the iconic pre-crisis Jason Robin scene comes -

Detective Comics (1937) Issue #526

Which first of all Jason why are you wearing other people's clothes without their permission? But anyway Jason hears people coming and finds Batman's busy grabbing information with Selina and so he hides in the trunk of the Batmobile. Robin Dick and Batgirl solve the case on their end and find out there's a trap for Batman so they come in and save Batman and his allies. Jason sneaks out of the car and finds his parents are dead so he tries to kill Killer Croc but Dick and Barbara stop him.

Detective Comics (1937) Issue #526

Dick's just like "oh, you sweetheart."

Dick wants to adopt him but Bruce is like mine because they're both like "It's my fault his parents died, I should take responsibility."

Detective Comics (1937) Issue #526

Dick was really nice to Jason.

Batman (1940) Issue #529

Dick is Jason's idol. He and Dick have a great relationship, so much so that Dick actually passes on the Robin name and suit to Jason.

Batman (1940) Issue #529

I could make a meme out of the handshake scene with Bruce being one hand and Jason being the other and in the middle the hands meet is "idolizing Dick Grayson".

So Dick and Jason had a fantastic relationship.

And then some things happen where this Jason wasn't well-recieved by the audience because of the way writers handled the transition from Dick's robin to Jason's so DC realized that they need to make Jason into his own person with his own personality, looks, and story.

So they magic marker erased the previous timeline and now we have the actual Jason Todd that's actually relevant to every comic that comes after.

Yet in this current timeline too, Dick treated Jason sweetly.

Here Dick's first meeting with Jason, he actually saves Jason from the hands of drug dealers.

Batman (1940) Issue #416

He let go of his hiding spot to get the new Robin out of trouble.

Jason is not at all happy about this.

Batman (1940) Issue #416

And Dick's pissed off because he found out there's a new Robin through a newspaper and he just lost a drug deal he's been waiting on to bailout the new Robin.

So Dick storms off and Jason asks Bruce about Nightwing

Batman (1940) Issue #416

And I'm going to reiterate parts of this post for this part (people please please read this post because tumblr has an image limit and I've explained it in detail there but I can't here)

Dick had no idea Bruce passed on the Robin costume. He finds out through the newspaper because Bruce is pissed at Dick. Like he's so mad that when he told Dick to leave, Dick actually left.

You know how there's a saying about not being able to take back words of anger? Bruce is feeling that heavily. He already had suspicions that Dick wanted to leave but before Dick could tell him, he fired him so he wouldn't have to hear those words. But Bruce is super mad that Dick left anyway. So what does he do? He makes the first boy he sees Robin.

And Jason finds out Dick was Robin when he confronts Bruce why Nightwing knows Bruce's identity. And that gets Bruce more mad because he's now feeling guilty which is when Dick comes to confront Bruce.

After meeting Bruce, Dick talks about what he's been up to since he left and put Bruce in a good mood before he starts tearing into him.

Batman (1940) Issue #416

Bruce looks so wrecked. The guilt and sorrow is tantamount to his pain.

Then Dick asks Bruce why he choose someone new.

Batman (1940) Issue #416

So Bruce tells him. But Dick and Bruce's relationship go way deeper than just friends or family. They know each other. They revolve around each other so Dick calls him out, and out comes the truth

Batman (1940) Issue #416

But here's what it means in terms of Dick and Jason's relationship:

Instead of letting Jason become some sort of spite move, Dick becomes the bigger man and decides to turn Robin into a legacy.

Batman (1940) Issue #416

He passes it down like it was meant to be passed down. Because let's be honest here. The Robin name and costume is Dick's. If he wanted to, he could've taken it back, Bruce be damned. And that was one of Jason's fears.

It's Dick's approval of Jason and them catching the drug dealers together at the end that cements Jason as Robin. It's his acceptance and good will toward Jason that Bruce is grateful for.

Batman (1940) Issue #416

Dick also validates and praises Jason in the comics whenever they meet.

The New Teen Titans (1984) Issue #31

He's basically, "Don't worry about Bruce, if you get in trouble, I'll take care of it."

The only problem is they didn't meet a lot but when they did it was good times all around.

The third version of Dick and Jason's meeting.

In this version holy honking heck. First of all it's a flashback when Bruce fires Dick because he feels like he's too busy with other duties to be with Batman and then after a series of events in present time, it shows that Bruce literally kidnapped Jason and gagged and tied him to a chair. And Alfred's like WTH BRUCE?!

Even more things happen on both sides (curse you 30-image per post tumblr limit) and Bruce essentially makes Jason watch all the videos of Dick and sets Jason's gauntlet test to be a game of tag with Dick.

Dick is completely unaware of all this happening because he's just having fun busting up thugs and playing with Barbara, having no clue that Bruce and Jason are literally watching him livestream through his bike dash cam.

Nightwing (1996) Issue #105

Jason literally shows up while Dick's pondering on a rooftop and is like who're you? Oh wait you're him lol. Move over there's a new robin in town! And Dick's just like WHAT?! He such a little shit about it.

Dick's immediately like okay I'm upset at Bruce but I have to help this new kid out. There's no hesitation, no regret, no anger towards Jason at all. Just pure desire to see him succeed.

Not gonna lie, Jason's just awful towards Dick because he thinks that Dick is his test or something Dick's just like, "can you cool it for a sec?" They soon find out about a huge crime drug activity going on and Dick sorta mentors Jason through it while on the case. I'm not gonna include the panels but it's just Dick and Jason working together. It's fun to read and cute because Dick's protective of him and Jason's like a little bird following a bigger scarier one.

At the end the crime is solved, Jason and Alfred go home, and Dick calls Bruce to tell him this -

Nightwing (1996) Issue #106

Nightwing (1996) Issue #106

He was so, so nice to Jason. Actually it's impossible for anyone to treat Jason better than Dick treated him, not even Bruce was this nice to Jason.

In Nightwing (2016) Annual, there's another story of Dick and Jason's meeting. In this case Dick comes over after Alfred calls him and Jason's sulking in his room because Bruce grounded him. He pulls Jason away and they go on a Nightwing and Robin adventure where Dick talks to him, teaches him, and lifts his spirits.

Nightwing (2016) 2021 Annual

Dick being mean to Jason is pure fanon, it's so fanon that there isn't even a single comic panel that can be used in support of that horrible idea. He never ignored Jason. Dick makes it very, very clear that his problems are with Bruce won't interfere with his relationship with Jason. He treats Jason as an independent person with his own personality and genuinely looks after and cares for him in every retelling. The only thing is they didn't meet very often but when they did, Dick was such a good brother.

[celaenaeiln]

Hey! I just wanted to say that I’m a big fan of your blog and I love your posts about Dick Grayson <3

I must warn that english is not my first lenguage, therefore I apologize for any mistakes that I make.

I’ve seen some posts were you mention some things that I find very interesting, and I would love to have a longer analysis on them. For example, the dynamic between Slade/Deathstroke and Dick/Nightwing, how complex their relationship truly is and some similarities it has with Bruce’s and Dick’s relationship. I would love to read a longer post analyzing this and going into more detail about it, mainly because I’m also kind of new to getting to know much of their story (I’m also kind of new to the whole fandom in general hahah). I also found very interesting something you mentioned in one of your latest posts about Superman’s relationship with Dick, and how you found it a bit more complex than the one he has with Bruce, I would love to read more about that as well! Of course only if you have the time and actually want to do it, I don’t want it to sound as if I’m making any demands hahahah.

Thank you for your time! This is actually my first time asking anything to a blog, so I hope I did alright haha

Hello and THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I would love to talk more about all of this with you!!!

For example, the dynamic between Slade/Deathstroke and Dick/Nightwing, how complex their relationship truly is and some similarities it has with Bruce’s and Dick’s relationship.

Anon's ask is based off this post where I discussed some similarities between Slade and Bruce in terms to their relationship with Dick but it wasn't really in depth.

In some ways I think Dick sees Bruce in Slade. I really don't know if Dick has made the connection between them but I think Dick is drawn to certain traits in Slade's and it subconscious at the least from his dealings with bruce. Meaning, Slade and Bruce have the same relationship with Dick as Dick has with the other. It's veiled because they're on opposite sides of the spectrum, but Dick and Slade's relationship have parallels with Dick and Bruce. We should really break this down lol.

I think the overarching component and similarity to each of their relationships with Dick, is that they see his potential to do better - to be better.

What do I mean by this - I mean that Slade and Bruce are similar in that they both see his potential and try to mold him into someone greater, but in different ways. The end result is that Bruce tests Dick's responsibility and pushes him further but still manipulative, while Slade's approach is more negatively manipulative and he tests Dick’s resilience and ethical boundaries.

So that's the first similarity - the praise and mentorship

Take a look at Slade's interactions with Dick and how he talks to him-

Tales of the Teen Titans Issue #43

He's effusive with his praise -

"You're not a fool, Grayson. Why are you pretending to be?'"

"Tricky brat...gotta admire him though. Took one chance in a million and he got away."

"Funny. Of all the titans, the one without powers proved the hardest."

The way they are to Dick, they are his consciousness. Slade is Dick's evil conscience and Bruce is his angelic conscience. (Their New Titans comics ally-ship was peak)

Deathstroke the Terminator Annual_1

Nightwing (1996) Issue #114

The New Titans (1988) Issue #86

They're nemesis, obviously, but Slade his this kind of tough love teaching going on with Dick. They're on opposite sides but he still makes him better. Dick, the hero he is now, is a consequence of the underlying teaching he learned from Slade. He's as supportive to Dick as he is ready to fight him with makes for a weird combo.

This kind of - I'll let you get your feelings out and then make you settle down - type of mentorship reminds me EXACTLY of Bruce's reaction to the Blockbuster event.

I think Dick is hooked to this type of relationship mainly because of his issues. Dick has canonical abandonment issues -

Now everyone's heard the term but what are abandonment issues?

sounds reallyyyy familiar doesn't it?

Gotham Knights Issue #14

It's very definition is basically the entirety of Dick's monologue in Gotham Knights Issue 14.

Because of his abandonment issues, Dick is a huge people pleaser. There's a comic issue which I can't remember from where he's talking to i think Kori and Kori's like 'you've done enough. you're always there for everyone, it's more than enough. Why can't you be satisfied with that.' and Dick responds along the lines of 'It's ever enough.'

So Dick on a basal level is attracted to figures of authority. He feels both the need to earn praise from them yet this desire wars with his own need to be free of them. He has control issues on top of abandonment issues. There's a comic that I forgot the name of but Dick teams up with members of the Justice League and they trapeze through a jungle under the orders of this corrupt military general. He teams up with Arthur and automatically starts commanding people to which Aquaman tells him off, saying this isn't the Titans. Dick is genuinely sorry and backs off. For a minute. But immediately goes right back into command mode but Arthur lets it go, realizing that Dick's not conscious of it and that his behaviour is automatic. "Too many leaders" he calls the situation in his head.

He's wants his freedom and control and to be acknowledged for that freedom and control just as much as he wants to be acknowledged for following orders/being a good boy.

it's fucked up.

And this all ties back into Dick's relationship with Slade paralleling Dick's relationship with Bruce.

With Bruce, this thought process is very clear and it's okay for him to think about (because he'll never admit it out loud) it because it's his mentor/best friend/father.

Dick can not think this way about Slade because he is not supposed to. Slade is his enemy. But his actions talk more than this words which is why whenever Dick allies Slade, he acts like he does with Bruce. Or atleast, he feels that way.

The Titans (1999) Issue #10

This is the time when their Dick's relationship with Bruce parallelling his with Slade is explicitly written. It's so obvious that even Roy picks up on it. Well, I shouldn't say 'even Roy' because Roy is pretty perceptive actually but the point still stands - it's obvious.

So in brief summary, Bruce and Slade's 'mentorship', if you can call Slade's as much, have parallels in their behavior and attitude towards Dick. And Dick, as a result of his issues, reacts the same way he does to Slade as he does to Bruce. Now this was all Dick's perspective of the situation, but the thing is, Bruce and Slade know Dick. They know him very well which leads to my third point.

The freaking parallel manipulation

It's so crazy how they act towards him. They both try to manipulate him -

Nightwing (2016) Issue #75

Nightwing (1996) Issue #112

But you what's really messed up in their similarity between these two scenes?

It's the fact that both Slade and Bruce are trying to manipulate Dick into coming back or staying with them.

Bruce using using Alfred's death and appealing to Dick's sense of guilt over staying separated from the family in order to coerce dick into coming back into Bruce's fold. This is what Dick means when he says he's sick of the mind games.

Slade, on the other hand, is appealing to Dick's sense of justice and moral righteousness. He's using his daughter in order bring Dick to his side by teasing Dick's need to do good for others. He's coercing Dick by hanging his daughter as bait on a hook and saying 'look. The naive daughter of an evil mercenary. Don't you want to save her?' He's targeting Dick's hero complex and need to protect the vulnerable.

This makes the parallels even more disturbing because both men are well aware of how to play Dick's emotional strings to pull Dick into their sphere and gain control over him.

In summary, there are three overarching components that make Dick and Slade's relationship eerily similar to Dick and Bruce's and vice versa.

With Bruce's relationship, his mentoring is rooted in emotional support but it often borders on manipulation. He sees Dick's potential and pushes him, sometimes excessively. Because of this push-pull relationship with bruce, Dick usually feels torn between adhering to loyalty and fighting for independence. His mindset is just perpetually caught in the middle which makes it so easy for Slade to exploit because Dick’s abandonment and control issues make him crave Bruce's approval while simultaneously feeling stifled by the overbearing nature of their bond.

Slade's relationship with Dick is darker, more manipulative, and rooted in exploitation. Although Slade is sometimes mentor-like, his intentions are really not. But the confusing thing is that's not always true. Sometimes he wants the best for dick and other times he's the worst enemy. He sees Dick's potential and uses it to manipulate him for his own purposes. While Bruce appeals to Dick's guilt, Slade appeals to Dick's sense of justice and heroism.

They both share a deep understanding of Dick’s potential and vulnerabilities. They know exactly how to manipulate him emotionally—Bruce through guilt and family ties, and Slade through exploiting Dick’s need to help others. Just like how both Slade and Bruce act the same way to Dick, Dick reacts the same way to both of them because he needs what they're selling.

Both Slade and Bruce see Dick as a tool to achieve their goals - Bruce shaping him to be a protector and leader, while Slade views him as a weapon in his own fight. Dick’s response to both figures is a reflection of his deep-seated need for approval and his desire for autonomy. This makes his relationships with Bruce and Slade sooo much fun to explore. Treating your enemy like you treat your friend? Hahaha!

I'll answer the Dick and Clark question in another post because I'll definitely exceed the image count per post if I try to answer it in this one.

And thank you again, anon!! you were perfect (*^ ‿ <*)♡

[celaenaeiln]

thinking about some quotes i’ve read and i wanna hear your thoughts on them because i have a lot and i don’t know what to do with them.

“the day Dick Grayson turns evil is the day the universe ends, not because that day will never come but because the boy will make it come”

“Dick Grayson isn’t the universal constant of good. Dick Grayson is the universal constant of competence”

“So, having said all that, it is a few but definitely significant words that fill the contingency plan on Nightwing in case the hero of Bludhaven ever turns to the dark side. Let's hope that never happens.”

YESSSSS

“the day Dick Grayson turns evil is the day the universe ends, not because that day will never come but because the boy will make it come”

This is the truest fact I've ever heard because this is really canon.

Word for word this happened.

In one of the canon timelines Clark laser blasted Bruce under mind control.

And oh how Dick took over. You know what Luthor says?

"After all, as I've heard your father [Dick] so often quoted, 'we make the hardest decisions for those we care about the most.' Well, in his case...that has meant remaking the world."

This man has the power to single-handedly control the fate of the world.

Whatever he wants, he will make it happen.

The entirety of the justice league, all the metas, heroes, and villains too stood no chance against him.

DC vs Vampires

“Dick Grayson isn’t the universal constant of good. Dick Grayson is the universal constant of competence”

I think it's true.

Nightwing is one of the most formidable figures in DC, without fail consistently coming out on top, so if Superman is iterating that Dick's personality and essence of being is the same, then there's really no room for disagreement.

But more truly, I think he is a Nexus.

By Marvel's definition, "Nexus Beings are rare individual entities with the ability to affect probability and thus the future, thereby altering the flow of the Universal Time Stream. These beings, each referred to as a nexus, act as the keystones of the Multiverse and are crucial to its ultimate coherence and stability."

That means that the universe hinges on the actions of Dick Grayson.

Not only does he control the fate of the world but his mere existence determines what will become of it by other people:

I'd like to reiterate that Neux Beings are "the keystones of the Multiverse and are crucial to its ultimate coherence and stability."

You can still be a nexus if you turn dark. For example Lore was a dark version of Wanda Maximoff but she is still considered a nexus. So you're right in saying that Dick Grayson is a multiuniversal constant of competence.

“So, having said all that, it is a few but definitely significant words that fill the contingency plan on Nightwing in case the hero of Bludhaven ever turns to the dark side. Let's hope that never happens.”

In the easiest terms as someone put it, "hope he fucks up" is Bruce's only contingency plan against Nightwing. The man doesn't have a clear plan how to neutralize Nightwing.

His exact words are: "As a result of overanalyzing any situation, this allows Dick Grayson to overconfident and misdirected. This will make himself open to a second attack."

So the plan is basically 'Dick is too smart for his own good so we'll have to go with a lucky surprise attack.' He's literally saying 'yupppp. Let's just hope he messed up because there's nothing we can do on ouR end.' Note that Bruce doesn't even have a back up like 'the second attack didn't work? we're fucked.'

For everyone else he actually has a coherent plan in mind- do this and they will fall. But for Dick? 'I hope he messes up enough for a second attack to actually stick. Otherwise we're shit out of luck. And lives. Fingers crossed he doesn't jump to the bad side.'

Tim also confirmed he would never make a contingency plan for Dick. The only person in the world he wouldn't do one for.

He's just that formidable of a man. Even now he can easily take down the Justice League if he wanted to.

And we know that Dick has one of the strongest wills on the planet.

"I have my enhancements. I have powers. Dick Grayson...what do you have?"

A world where Dick loses his emotions is a world that would not survive.

[celaenaeiln]

i once saw a post saying something like that was like, out of dick, jason, and tim, dick should be the one traveling the world as he just feels like a free spirit, jason should be the one staying in gotham as he’s the one whose goal was always to help gotham citizens, and tim should be the one getting his own city so he can step out of the shadow of batman and robin. what are your thoughts on that?

I totally see where they're coming from because I used to think that way too. I still sort of do but some things have changed.

Let's start off with the first one -

"dick should be the one traveling the world as he just feels like a free spirit"

They're very right because this 'free-spirit' trait of his is actually explored in the comics. Like Dick!bats and Barbara actually have a full on discussion of this:

Detective Comics (1937) Issue #872

And this isn't the first time either! Dick LOVES travelling, he can't stay in one place. Actually, in one alternate version of the future, Tim gets mad at Dick because he decides to leave gotham after Bruce dies and Tim wanted Dick to stay as Batman.

After bruce dies, things continue on as always but they don't. Like we know in the brief time that Bruce was lost in time, Dick was forced to become Batman. But we also know that he hated it. But that was temporary right? In the future, Bruce officially died. And Dick HAD to be Batman forever. And he tried but Dick, ONCE AGAIN, HATES being Batman but the bigger issue is, he refuses to be chained down and the batsuit was a suffocating mantle of darkness. A coffin in a costume for him. So guess who becomes Batman in that future? Tim.

Tim becomes this evil-ish Batman in Dick's place. In the detective comcis, Tim meets his Batman self. He's shocked because like Dick, HE doesn't want to be Batman either. People who really understand the weight of the legacy don't ever want to be it. But this is what Future Evil Batman Tim says this to the current Tim:

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #966

Dick is always bouncing from place to place - New York, Chicago, Bludhaven, Gotham, outer space, different cities - he's all over the place. So it sees irrefutable that he shouldn't be tied to once city right?

Well, that person is so right. Because he isn't.

The only reason Dick has stabilized in Bludhaven, is because he's not settled down at all!!

The detective comics and villains address this too!!

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #1039

Like forget the titans for a sec, the villains are so aware of the effect Batman has on Nightwing and Nightwing has on Batman.

but no, the point is. Dick isn't tied down to Bludhaven because Bruce always drags him back to Gotham!

Gotham Knights Issue #1

The New Titans (1988) Issue #61

Dick literally turns back to Gotham in the middle of his way out because Bruce needs him but also Bruce calls him back! He contacts Titans Tower in MANHATTAN, NEW YORK to tell Dick that he needs his help in GOTHAM, NEW JERSEY.

Not only that, but Dick is constantly working with the titans while he's fighting crime in Bludhaven. Titans (1999) while also in Bludhaven and Gotham

The Titans (1999) Issue #14

The Titans (1999) Issue #3

He's literally running in and rushing to switch uniforms from being an officer in Bludhaven to being Nightwing in New York.

But main point with all this, is that Dick is 100% a free soul and his lifestyle now, as Nightwing, allows him to still be that. Bludhaven is his base of operations, his crownpiece, but the reason Dick doesn't feel restricted is because he's still EVERYWHERE. Those boots are continuously flying. He's not stationed there in bludhaven like Bruce is stationed in Gotham.

His need to travel the world is satisfied through his Titans involvement. And another reason why Dick can't be traveling to like China and Brazil constantly is because Bruce needs him. He's Bruce's second in command and confidant. So Bludhaven is the sweet balance between staying near enough to Bruce while being separate and the Titans are his way of flying free since they're fighting all over the world.

The only feasible way for him to travel the world as Nightwing as a lifestyle choice is to cut ties with bruce which he definitely won't be doing because Bruce is his crutch -meant both positively and negatively. (Privately, I agree with the person who said that quote tho even if Dick refuses to choose it).

"jason should be the one staying in gotham as he’s the one whose goal was always to help gotham citizens"

100% agree. Jason was born in gotham, raised in gotham, and died in Gotham. And made his comeback in gotham.

Suddenly he's in the middle of buttfuck nowhere fighting crime? Are you kidding me, DC? This boy, WHO LITERALLY FOUGHT BRUCE OVER BEING MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE CITIZENS THAN BRUCE WAS-

Batman (1940) Issue #645

Nightwing (2016) Annual 2021

Batman (1940) Issue #422

Batman (1940) Issue #635

-all this and he suddenly abandons his raison d'être to fight crime in who knows where???

At the very least, I'm glad DC brought him back and stationed him in Gotham.

The only thing I would change about their statement is 'his goal is helping gotham citizens' to 'gotham women and kids'. My bro has no qualms about killing the men of gotham and this is also a very important distinction between him and Bruce.

Bruce cares about all of Gotham but his focus is on keeping Gotham functioning. While loss weighs heavily on his soul, a 50 year old man is the same as 32 year old woman in his eyes. His goal behind creating batman was to become a symbol of hope - that even if it seems like there's no one coming to help, there is actually one person who is there on the look out.

Jason's ideology is more effective because he has a certain target he pursues. His cases are likely those that target specifically women and kids where as Bruce's cases are just about anyone.

But the reason I'm bringing up Bruce, is because it relates to Tim.

"tim should be the one getting his own city so he can step out of the shadow of batman and robin."

I disagree. Tim should be stationed in Gotham because out of all the Batkids, he is the one that is most alike to Bruce in his ideology of Batman.

Tim has EVERY RIGHT to Gotham as much as Bruce and Jason. He, like both of them, was born and raised in Gotham his whole life.

Just like how Bruce's KNOWN for representing Gotham and being Gotham's hero, Tim has the exact same life circumstance as Bruce. He, like Bruce, was born and raised rich. He and Bruce are well-used to navigating the upperclass social circles or Gotham. Both of them went to school in Gotham until college.

So what if Tim was born rich. Just because Jason was born poor and knows the dark side of Gotham, it means that Tim doesn't? Tim's background is identical to Bruce's. Bruce Wayne - Batman - is known as Gotham's hero like Red Hood is known as Gotham's antihero. This is whole life! Like where is he gonna go?

Tim LOVES Gotham as much as Bruce does. When Tim became Robin, he became Robin not because he particularily cared for the well-being of the man under the mask, but because Batman's reckless state was affecting the city.

His story is literally how he was obsessed with dick and thus found out the identity of Batman and Robin and he wants Dick to become Bruce's Robin again because Dick healed bruce's mind in a way that Batman's behavior was reflected in his action on the city.

Batman (1940) Issue #441

Listen to his selling to Bruce why Batman needs a Robin-

Batman (1940) Issue #442

"I don't know why you decide to wear that costume-- but it makes you a symbol....And this isn't just a symbol of the law, it's a symbol of Justice. When one policeman is killed, others take his place because justice can't be stopped."

Tim loves Gotham. His reason for becoming robin was because Batman was a symbol of Justice. With the symbol of Justice out of commission, the crime in his city runs rampant.

When Bruce is lost in time, Tim begs Dick to become Batman because his city needs it.

Battle for the Cowl Issue #1

I hit the image limit but Tim gives up on asking Dick and decides to become Batman himself. At this time Jason is acting as a murderous Batman but Tim knows that the city cannot continue with Jason as Batman because the symbol of Justice playing killing and playing favorites? The man would end Gotham in blood battle and none of his actions are anything like Batman's which is what Tim's getting at.

So the main point in all this is, Tim will do anything for Gotham. His thoughts about this in Detective Comics (2016) Issue #966 where he's evil Batman in the future is also explored deeper and he talks about all the things he's done to the current Tim. In the future, he implies that he kills Damian who acts as batman because Damian runs the city into the ground with his actions and current Tim is horrified, calling him a monster.

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #966

Tim might love Gotham more than Bruce does and Bruce is known for it.

So Tim should absolutely not leave and set up station in another city.

Tim should also continue being Robin because he was made for it. Tim, more than anyone, understand what Robin means. Dick created the symbol and personlity and dynamic Robin should have. The thing is, he and Bruce have an inherent bond. Like, something about them just clicked. Bruce loved Dick's hope, thoughtfulness, and personality. They meshed into something inseparable. But Dick didn't actively think about any of his actions having a consequence on bruce when he was Robin. He was just doing his own thing, being his own person, and Bruce really loved him for who he was. No one expected that he would leave Robin one day or that there would be a second Robin.

And this is where Jason comes in. In the comics, Bruce actually tells jason when he becomes Robin that because he is taking the mantle of someone else, everything he does as Robin will always be tied to the mantle the first person created - the good and the bad.

He essentially proceeds to tell Jason that you will never be your own person when your wearing this symbol because you're merely inheriting the legacy of someone else. This is made worse than usual by the fact that you're wearing a mask.

So Jason internalizes this, but so does Bruce. Bruce wanted Jason to be Dick and was disappointed in his actions when he proves to be otherwise and this is what Alfred talks about in the Batman comics.

Now, while Jason internalized this and fought it, Tim reveled in it. He knew exactly what it meant to be wearing Dick's symbol on his chest which is why he gets hurt by Damian's replacement and grateful that Dick made him robin. His thoughts on this are explored in the Red Robin comics where he talks about how he adores Dick and Bruce.

This is also why Tim consistently talks about how Dick is the best robin (Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Scorched Earth and Robin 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular #1). And also what he's talking about when he says Robin is a symbol-

Just like how Batman is known to be the dark avenger, Robin is known to be batman's light-hearted partner. The counter-balance. Because this is the dynamic Dick inadvertently created with Bruce.

Because every time a robin, as Tim understands it, steps into his suit and mantle, they are emulating Dick. Which is why Dick is the best Robin in Tim's eyes because not only can no one be Dick, but also Dick exceeded in his responsibility as Bruce's counterweight. To be his partner. (Nightwing 1996 Issue 6).

(On the flipside, Dick think Tim is the best robin. These two <33).

But anyway, Tim deserves to be Robin because he's aware of the meaning more than anyone else. I cannot think of anyone more fitting than Tim to be Batman's robin. To understand the weight of the legacy and to serve the city he loves? He told Dick that he dreamed of being Robin when he was just a civilian watching him and Bruce. Tim should absolutely stay as Robin.

I love Damian, I really, really do but Damian was Dick's robin. His whole breaking free of Batman thing after Alfred's death was proof of that. If there must only be one robin, I believe it should continue being Tim because Damian, based on his thoughts, should grow into a new identity. Because for Damian, being Robin doesn't mean anything in the sense of being Bruce!Batman's partner. They don't mesh. He did specifically for Dick. Something about the cheery/patient-sassy/grumpy dynamic. It doesn't work when both Batman and Robin were both grumpy. But since Dick is Nightwing, I think DC should create a new identity for Dami. I still believe he should still be Batman though and I do like him as Robin but if I really had to choose, Tim was created to be Robin. He understands.