#epic meta

[haley-harrison]

Why Hermes wasn't in God Games:

a) Zeus doesn't take him seriously

and/or

b) Zeus knows Hermes is already on Ody's side so Athena wouldn't even have to convince him

[opaige]

Penelope’s theme literally disrupting Odysseus’ “Just a Man” motif in “There Are Other Ways” makes me so unwell actually. wdym a phrase about lying to yourself, about resigning yourself to committing a deed you know you will regret, about looking at the choices you have and knowing whichever you choose will be the wrong one, about being helpless to fate and the gods' will, is musically interrupted by Penelope? That in a song about power and control and deceit, the domain where Odysseus usually thrives, her theme overrides everything else and forces Odysseus to tell Circe the truth? To be vulnerable instead of cunning? It cuts through the lie. It ends the performance. She is all his power. Do you understand.

[wolfnight2012]

I've seen several people talk about how it's Ares who asks if Athena's dead & how he sounds legitimately concerned/afraid

But i haven't seen anyone point out how excited Ares is to debate with Athena???

Like, Apollo & Hephaestus are both pretty mellow in their agreements. Aphrodite does not want to play. Hera sounds like she could use the entertainment/distraction

But Ares?

Ares is PUMPED!

He's the "brute" sibling & Athena's the "intellectual" one and he's being asked to engage with her on her level (and she'll be on the defense for this game) and he's sooooo fucking excited

Idk, i just find it cute.

Even their physical fight doesn't seem too mean spirited to me, like, these two are the physical embodiment of war & battle, Of Course they would resort to sparring both verbally & physically

(And on that note, i don't think they're going all out/actually trying to hurt each other during their spar, which makes it doubly painful how small Ares' voice is when he asks if she's dead.

Because while the two Literal Embodiments of War were able to disagree/argue/fight without hurting each other

Their own father did not hold back.)

[quotidian-oblivion]

Six Hundred Strike Jetpack

That was a fucking awesome ass scene. The visuals and the music all went together so well and so cool!!

But, I wanted to see what other different approach could have been taken.

Just by listening to the song, closing my eyes and trying to picture how things could have looked, I feel like at the start, Ody is drowning. He's drowning and his eyes are getting so so heavy then... he sees the bag.

He sees the bag and, in desperation as he's losing oxygen, opens it. He opens it and the wind bursts, propelling him up as he's clutching the bag for dear life. And as he's going up and up (his still in the water, going up as Aelous's instruments go on), his facial expressions change. He goes from hazy, to active, to desperation, to fear, to pure unbridled anger. He will see his son. He will see his wife. And no fucking thing is going to stop him.

He doesn't look back, but he feels something. A hand. Several of them. All of them holding him, propelling him up with Aeolus's bag. The crew, Polites, Eurylochus, his mother, everyone he has lost. All of them supporting him, seeing how determined and how close to home he was when none of them were. They were here in spirit, but also in an ethereal, wind-like form.

So instead of jetpack, when I listen to the song, I'm picturing the 600 men taking some vague air-formed versions of their bodies.

And in the 0:22 mark when Aeolus's part shifts to the "six hundred men" chant, I can clearly picture Odysseus bursting from the water surrounded by the 600 men in wind-forms, holding him up and surrounding him, facing off against Poseidon.

That's when Odysseus says his piece and pulls out his weapon and attacks.

So Poseidon's storm - yes - is there, but right now, it's in the form of 600 men. And during the 0:52 mark when you hear that- that- (I'm not a music student, bear with me) water-crystal-ice-wind sound (nailed it), I can picture them rushing forward to attack Poseidon.

As Odysseus sings "For every comrade..." etc, I can picture the wind-forms attacking Poseidon ruthlessly, holding him down, hitting him, overwhelming him with wind and air in his lungs so he can't breathe, giving Odysseus the time to attack Poseidon, render him unmovable and weak.

And when Odysseus sings "Six hundred strike!", I can picture all the wind forms and Odysseus attacking him all at once, dropping Poseidon on the rocks.

And, once the instrumental calms down and the wind disperses, the wind forms leave Odysseus and transform back into the storm, blocking the way home. And this is because Poseidon caught control of it again. (I'd like to believe that the other wind gods including Aeolus and Hermes got convinced through Athena's fight to help Odysseus and that's what shifted the winds into the 600 men backing Odysseus up. But since they're in Poseidon's territory, he could snag the control back again). And the reason Poseidon's rendered immobile is because he's struggling to keep hold of the storm away from the other gods' hands.

So when Odysseus stabs him over and over, he can't do much cuz he's trying to keep control of the storm. So when he says "Alright!" I'd like to imagine him giving up that control and the other gods getting it back and moving the storm away. So then Poseidon has the power to heal himself since he's not struggling to keep hold of the storm.

Aaaaaaaaaand that's my take! Hope you like the vision too. I'm just a sentimental fella and I'd prefer everything coming together rather than a single... um, jetpack 😅

[aficionadoenthusiast]

someone else has probably pointed this out already, but it's so neat that jay used nearly the same noises (i don't know the proper term lol) in odysseus as he did in polyphemus and survive (of polyphemus killing odysseus' men and odysseus killing the suitors). likening odysseus to the original monster in the story and likening the suitors, particularly antinous, to polites, as if both groups are just opportunity seekers in a power vacuum (and then the open arms line. my god). and then bringing in the contrast of odysseus and his men looking for food while the suitors were looking for power and lust. setting up the final song of penelope being what finally brings odysseus back from being a monster. to once again become a man, he first had become the cyclops. and then he had to do what the cyclops, and ultimately him, failed to do that first time around and eliminate all loose ends to keep the sheep (and his family) protected. which brings us back to the infant. i just. wow

[bloodyshadow1]

look, the Odyssey is a tragic story, it's one of the oldest stories we have. Yes, Odysseus eventually makes it home at the end, but he's the only one to off all the men from Ithica that followed him to Troy. Regardless of him getting home, he lost everything to do so, the favor of Athena, his men, his mind, and in the end even though he gets home he still lost 10/12 years away from his wife and son, on top of the additional 10 years he spent fighting in Troy, and he will never get them back. Epic is a musical adaption of that story.

There aren't any good guys or bad guys really. Sure there are plenty of antagonists, I wouldn't call Polyphemus, Poseidon, and Zeus good guys by any means, but they're reacting to what happened just as everyone else. Over reacting in my opinion, I think in most people's opinion, but still Epic and the Odyssey is about people who make the wrong decisions and have to live with the consequences.

You can't really blame any character, because almost everyone is in the wrong at some point in the story. I see people condemn Eurylochus, for the mutiny and for being the one to open up the bag, but it's far more complicated than that. No, he shouldn't have opened the bag, but the story is about how people keep making mistakes, and things that seemed small turn out to be the worst thing they could have possibly done. If you're going to blame him for the rest of the fleet being smashed by Poseidon, you could also blame Odysseus for not finishing off Polyphemus, or even worse doxxing himself to the cyclops. You could blame Odie for not swallowing his pride and actually giving Poseidon the actual apology he demanded while holding the lives of hundreds of his men in his hands, instead of trying to use his silver tongue to deny responsibility. and you can keep going in circles until you're horse but the fact is there's enough blame to share in a tragedy like Epic/the Odyssey.

[lalilaloli]

So, I’ve been thinking and just had to get this off my chest. The reunion between Athena and Odysseus. Just like the majority of the Epic fandom, I was left heartbroken after that scene. I wanted more. I wanted a reunion which reunited their friendship. Instead their reunion was bittersweet at best. Some fans have even criticised how it was written and claimed that Odysseus was ungrateful and acted like an asshole when he didn’t accepted Athena’s olive branch with open arms (no pun intended! I repeat, no pun intended!). But can we give the man a break? When Athena left him, 10 years ago, they parted on very bad terms. Athena had then been Odysseus mentor for how long? 15 years? 20? Odysseus trusted her. Admired her. Both as a goddess, as a mentor and as a friend. Then came Troy. A war he didn’t even wanted to be a part of. A war which lasted for 10 years. And then came the murder of the infant. That was the beginning of the end for Odysseus. That was when he started to break. He never forgave himself for that. And Athena condemned him for that. Not for the killing but for his regret, his conscience, his heart. Instead of showing the minimum of empathy or support she simply told him to focus on his mind, not his heart. That he was suppose to be a warrior of the mind. Not the heart and that he couldn’t expect any sympathy from her. Already then the respect and friendship Odysseus felt for her started to crack. Because Odysseus wasn’t a war machine with a cold heart. He didn’t want to be that. Then all hell broke loose with Polyphemus and the death of Polites. His best friend, the one which encouraged Odysseus to be a good man, to show mercy and love. Now, was Odysseus an idiot in how he handled the situation? Yes. He made 2 gigantic mistakes (let Polyphemus live and tell him his real name) we can all agree on that. He should have listened to Athena but Athena had (unknowingly for her) already damaged Odysseus trust and respect for her. Odysseus was heartbroken, angry full of guilt and the goddess he loved and trusted now only seemed to treat him like a thing. According to her should listen to her, man up, shut up and stop being a crybaby. That’s not how a friend acts. So he was hurt, angry and just as disappointed in her as she was in him. In their goodby she threw their friendship in his face and clearly showed him what a fool he had been. So now had Odysseus not only lost his best mortal friend, he now lost his friendship with Athena and also found out that she didn’t even consider them to be friends. That for her he was only a protege, a failed student, and the things that made Odysseus a man, his heart, his conscience, his warmth, his empathy, was useless and only an weakness.

Now 10 years later Athena and Odysseus has gone 2 completely separate ways. Odysseus has been through hell. He has forced himself to become a monster. The last thing he wanted to become. The complete opposite of the man he once was. He done things he never can forgive himself for. Just to be able to come home to Penelope and Telemachus. We don’t know what Athena has been up to but she certainly has been in to some soul searching. That’s obvious in “We’ll be fine”. She has understood that what she and Odysseus had was friendship. That she does care about him. And that she might have done some misstakes in her past. Something which is probably quite difficult to swallow for a goddess. But Athena has grown and matured.

When they finally meet again they’ve both changed. In a perfect world Odysseus would take Athena’s hand and they once again would be friends. But Odysseus has been through hell and back. To get home he has sacrificed everything, even himself and his own humanity. He turned into a heartless monster without mercy. He turned into something that is no longer the man he once was. He turned into somebody he’s no longer sure Penelope can love. He no longer believes that the man Odysseus exists. That the only thing left is the monster Odysseus. He has lost himself and he’s terrified. Now Athena stands in front of him and ask him to try again. For his friendship, for them to make the world a better place. But he can’t. How could he? How could he now that he’s a monster? A man full of shame. And he so, so tired. He doesn’t want to be a warrior anymore. He doesn’t want to continue fighting. He just wants to be a husband and a father. And he believes that he’s change so much that he’s not even sure that Penelope even can love him again. So he can’t take the outstretched hand Athena offer him. Even if he wants to. He’s too broken. Too exhausted. But… I still believe that we shall se this as an open ending. A comma instead of a full stop. Odysseus is not ready to be Athena’s protege again, he might not even be ready to rebuild their friendship right now. But I think that Athena’s words when they reunite affects Odysseus emotional and mental healing. The knowledge that Athena is there, that she believes in him and that she cared. That she always did even if she didn’t admit that even for herself. Because Odysseus needs healing and he needs time. Time for once again be that man who believed in goodness and mercy. The man who was Athena’s friend. And, when you hear the softness in the voice of Athena’s final words to Odysseus, she knows it too.

So can we please give the poor man a break?

[garden-of-rambles]

One of these days I’m gonna write a meta post about why I love the dichotomy of “Suffering” and “Different Beasts” and how perfectly the fun and silliness of the first ties into the darker turn of the second and how it demonstrates the similar duality of Odysseus as a character.

The man who will greet you with a smile and friendly words, then use them to lead you into his trap. He doesn’t lose the smile. It just changes. Both are true. Both are performance.