#lightsaber combat

[animatedjen]

Jedi Survivor Stances Single - Double - Dual - Blaster - Crossguard

[izamon]

"The Jedi Path" book has some very interesting info on 'Marks of Contact' - basically the ways in which lightsaber combat is ended. Notable ones which we see in the films include:

Shiak, the second fundamental mark, pierces an opponent with the blade's point. Preferred for its precision, it is a Mark that indicates you are in control of the blade and the Force is in control of you

A pretty noble way for Maul to kill Qui-gon, all things considered.

Cho mai severs the weapon hand entirely, leaving your opponent alive but unable to continue the fight, and is thus a merciful conclusion to battle.

This is how both Anakin and Luke lose their hands, which does make sense in context - Dooku is a civilised duelist who also doesn't consider Anakin much of a threat, and Vader has just told Luke some very important information and is probably wanting him alive so he can turn. Also this book has annotations from varying owners, and this part is annotated by Luke with "I don't know that I'd call it merciful"

Sai cha is the act of cutting an enemy's head from his shoulders. It is never the intention of a Jedi to extinguish a fellow life, [...]. But when required, a lightsaber can also kill. If a shiak thrust through the heart cannot be done, this is the preferred method for a fatality.

So Anakin's killing of Dooku is relatively noble in its method, at least.

And now, we come to Obi-wan "forbidden methods of killing people" Kenobi!

Mou kei is a forbidden variant [of limb severing Marks], literally meaning "to dismember". It involves the act of cutting through several limbs at once. You should never need to use mou kei against a living being given the many alternatives.

Annotation from Obi-wan - "I can't see ever using such a Mark" 😭

Sai tok slices an entire body into two halves. The act is rightly considered barbaric and evidence of the furious emotions of the dark side. Unless you're fighting droids, no student of mine should ever use sai tok.

So yeah, Anakin 'war crimes' Skywalker learned it from somewhere. To be fair they make sense in context, since Obi-wan is left with very few options when fighting Anakin, and is very much angry and furious at Maul. However I have to assume the Council was not happy at Obi-wan for how he killed Maul lol

[guildofscribes]

Just finished re-reading the Jedi Apprentice series, and I’m having so many feelings about it.

Obi-wan Kenobi is the sum of a man who resolved to survive in order to help others. If his survival did not help others, then he was willing to give his life if that would help.

He always was willing to give himself if required for the survival of others, but he understood deeply the need for defenders to actually survive to defend the defenseless.

He gives no purchase to fear, because it is not important. It is merely an obstacle to vault over. He has had much experience with fear and pushing through it.

He literally went, “I will not die if people are depending on me.” And so he did whatever needed to be done to facilitate that end.

Qui-gon Jinn died with two people dependent on him, and Obi-wan literally went, “Wellp, I’ll not be doing that.”

He dedicated the rest of his life to not dying until the galaxy had no further use from him being alive. Obi-wan Kenobi died when it was actually more expedient for him to be a ghost.

The sum of his life was the choice to serve.

Like in The Threat Within where Qui-gon is training with a sixteen-maybe-seventeen-year-old Obi-wan and he realizes that Obi-wan is subtly directing the spar, giving ground, allowing Qui-gon to press him… it rings with the later quote in the Revenge of the Sith novelization I think, about his style as a grown man. Obi-wan gave ground because it was his way. One who watched and waited. One who cultivated patience.

Even though he was learning Ataru, an aggressive and offensive form of combat, he was still smart and strategic about how he fought. He gave ground. The groundwork for the solid Soresu he would later build was already there. From specializing in Atari for the first half of his life to dedicating himself to Soresu for the rest of it, he was not afraid to start completely over in this important part of his life.

Obi-wan was not too proud to start over.

Obi-wan was not too proud to learn lessons.

Obi-wan’s way was to give ground. To step back. To watch and to listen to the will of the force. To be patient. Not prefect, but willing to learn.

[dathomirdumpsterfire]

Inspired from original Concept Art, "M a u l" by Federico Belingheri.

[short-wooloo]

I rewatched Lair of Grievous recently and I noticed a fascinating detail:

During the final fight in the episode Grievous holds the advantage over Kit Fsto until Kit servers one of Grievous' arms and starts wield the dropped lightsaber, at which point the fight shifts completely, Kit is either matching or outfighting Grievous, and it's only thanks to the intervention of Grievous' Magnaguards that Kit is forced back

Which all goes to show that Grievous' whole "Jedi-Killer" shtick is down to an unconventional and overwhelming attack style than skill or power

Dual-wielding lightsabers is uncommon, and Grievous is the only known example of quadruple wielding, most Jedi never trained or expected to deal with this kind of dueling style, leaving them thrown off from the start, and from there Grievous uses his quantity of sabers to attack from multiple directions

But as Kit shows us, once a Jedi has another saber to wield and/or once they start removing Grievous' limbs he starts to falter, the advantage is lost, four sabers might be able to overcome one saber and the Force, but two sabers and the Force against four or less sabers? Grievous is at a disadvantage now, and Grievous DOES NOT fight when at a disadvantage, so from there he inevitably retreats or calls for help

[snowflake-shenanigans]

I swear I don't remember Vader's lightsaber fighting style being so smack-heavy. He's moving that blade around like it's a baseball bat or perhaps a rolled up newspaper whacking a bug. WHACK WHACK WHACK

[fallen-knight]

hi~ which lightsaber forms do erin and idris use? do they mostly stick to one, or switch between several depending on the circumstances?

also feel free to answer for any other force-sensitive oc you have, if you're in the mood!

hell yeah! this question is so juicy i'm grinning. sword lore and characterization let's gooooo

basic rundown of my take on lightsaber forms (in my headcanon the Sith use their own names for each form, and have altered them to reject Jedi traditions in favor of dark side philosophy, leading to similar but distinct styles):

Form I (Jedi: Shii-cho ("determination"), Sith: Qoshâsot ("way of passion")). the first form developed by the Jedi, a basic style with sweeping attacks and a focus on disarming one's opponent, renamed by the Sith after the first line of their code and approached as a harnessing of raw emotion. taught to all padawans and acolytes. (used by guardian/juggernaut and sentinel/marauder dps specs in SWTOR)

Form II (Jedi: Makashi ("contention"), Sith: Qoyun ("way of two")). dueling forms were developed simultaneously in mirror versions by the Jedi and dark side users who would later become the Sith; the styles are constantly evolving in a bid to surpass each other as a result. taught after Form I to students who show promise in one-on-one melee combat.

Form III (Jedi: Soresu ("resilience"), Sith: Qotaral ("way of protection")). first developed by the Jedi as a purely defensive style, with a focus on deflecting attacks for as long as possible. taught after Form I. (used by guardian/juggernaut tanks in SWTOR)

Form IV (Jedi: Ataru ("aggression"), Sith: Qotyûk ("way of strength")). first developed by the Jedi on the ideas of Forms I and II, but with more acrobatic and aggressive attacks, and suitable for both groups and single opponents. taught after Form III. (used by sentinel/marauder dps specs in SWTOR)

Form V (Jedi: Shien ("perseverance"), Sith: Qomidwan ("way of power"). first developed by the Jedi as a more retaliatory defensive style than Form III, using parries to launch into immediate counterattacks and sending blasterfire back at its source; taught after Form IV. (used by guardian/juggernaut DoT specs in SWTOR)

Form VI (Jedi: Niman ("moderation"), Sith: Qojidai ("way of the Jedi", used as an insult for anyone who fights poorly)). first developed by the Jedi to balance moves from all preceding forms into an easily mastered skillset without glaring weaknesses or great strengths, leaving one's focus free to pursue diplomacy or other Force abilities. taught to Jedi shadows and sages; not favored by Sith, except Exar Kun, who was kind of a dweeb. (unlike sages, sorcerers tend to be interested in pure Form II, or ignore the lightsaber nonsense altogether.)

Form VII (Jedi: Juyo ("ferocity"), Sith: Qojen ("way of darkness")). in contrast to Form VI, Form VII was first developed by the Sith from forms II and IV as a brutally efficient takedown style, used by assassins to eviscerate their targets. few Jedi have been allowed to study it, due to its violent dark side ethos. (used by sentinel/marauder DoT specs in SWTOR)

and how this applies to my SWTOR Force users:

Erin Kodan, Jedi Knight, sentinel. She's learned all the lightsaber moves she can, and practices the twin-saber disciplines of the first five forms relentlessly; training until exhaustion was the only outlet she had as a Padawan for her emotional issues. She's gotten good enough that she's circled around to favoring Shii-cho for knocking out groups of opponents fast and effortlessly, but dueling is where her full range gets to shine. She wanted to learn Juyo, to counter the Sith and fight them with their own style, but wasn't deemed mature enough for it by her masters... which may have been prophetic, as she's trained in the original Form VII during her time on the Emperor's space station, and uses it against the Republic to devastating effect. She swears it off after her return, but continues to study its strengths and weaknesses in secret, determined to face her fears and beat the Sith at their game.

Idris Arakh, Sith Warrior, assassin. He's trained in all six forms favored by the Sith, with one goal: to be the best at his job. He primarily uses Form VII adapted for double-bladed lightsabers (with all their spinning potential), and Form V for defense, especially when tanking. His fighting style is fast and vicious, using stealth to get the drop on targets and going for vital areas and gaps in their armor, clouding their minds with fear and dancing around their attacks if they live long enough to fight back. He often swaps his dualsaber from hand to hand, switching blades off and on again to throw his opponents off balance, while his free hand is either channeling lightning or crushing their bodies and stealing their energy through the Force. Later in life, when he's no longer able to run around quite as easily and can't risk leaving openings, he relies more on Form V as a compromise between offense and defense.

Zeria Sartrali, Jedi Consular, sage. She learned Shii-cho and Soresu for basic attack and defense, but wasn't interested in further exploration of lightsaber combat; as a legally blind Miraluka, she's able to sense the locations and intentions of organic beings and gets warning pings through the Force before most attacks, but she's at a disadvantage when it comes to droids and fast-paced melee combat, and prefers to study telekinetics and healing anyway. She uses Soresu to deflect incoming attacks as she senses them, but otherwise tries not to let her opponents within melee range, using her lightsaber crystals as a focusing aid while she calls up a storm of powerful ranged attacks to keep them at a distance.

Jinev, heir of Kallig, Sith Inquisitor, sorcerer/marauder. As an ex-slave acolyte who wasn't expected to go far, she was only taught the basics of Form I single-saber combat, but decided that she preferred two blades to one and looted a second training sword early on. Harkun undermined her efforts to train at a higher level, and Zash didn't see a reason to bother, leaving her relying on raw lightning and lacking more advanced swordfighting skills - but after meeting Ashara, she was very eager to spar with her and learn the ropes of dual wielding. Having an apprentice who was the best duelist in her class has its perks; she ends up learning more from Ashara than Ashara did from her. Her personal style is acrobatic, aggressive, and channels lightning along both sabers, using the Ataru moves she learned from her apprentice and dark side techniques she picked up from other Sith through the years.

(Kallig was a bit of a Form II snob who designed his curved saber hilt for elegant and refined dueling; he laments that it is now wielded with such brazen carelessness, but the flesh of his flesh is equally opinionated, insisting on using it as a portable lightning rod and abusing the hilt to bash in her enemies' skulls regardless.)

and a bonus guest...

Kass Copek, my prequels-to-original trilogy era Gungan Force user! :) She was briefly trained by a rogue Jedi Shadow, later discovered a Sith holocron belonging to one Darth Tacitus, but mostly just had to figure things out for herself. She favors stealth and telekinesis, using them to pull heists and generally sabotage the Hutts and Imperials alike, but she isn't half bad with a saber either.

Her Jedi Shadow master taught her Shii-cho, Soresu, and the basics of Niman, and her favored saber technique blends the more useful bits of Shii-cho and Niman with telekinesis; she's quick to adapt the classic Jedi moves to suit her current needs, and will often throw her saber or levitate it menacingly like Kreia. She technically owns two sabers - her former master's and the one she built during her training - and will use both to better deflect blaster bolts or pull out a surprise stab in a pinch, but she prefers to keep one hand free for chewing the scenery by yeeting shit around and, in rare moments of Dark Sidedness, channeling full-on Force lightning.

(Is she comically overpowered? Yes. Do I love her? Also yes. <3)

[starcatboy]

Gymnastics ask + Star Wars: talk to me about Ataru and any observations or headcanons about an acrobatic form :D

Ahhh thank you so much for this ask!!

I think a lot of the people much more qualified than me to talk about this subject, mainly people who are knowledgeable about sword fighting, have already said what is to be said. Which is that there are very few instances in which doing flips is really going to make your fighting more effective. A tires you out, it sends your momentum in the wrong directions, it leaves a lot of areas vulnerable, etc. Also, as someone who will not try it (but wishes I could for cosplay purposes) it’s definitely difficult to do acrobatics while holding something because it really messes with like your arm positions and aerodynamic-ness.

I will say, this does not mean I think that it was a bad choice to have Jedi do a lot of flips while fighting. It’s the rule of cool. It’s more interesting and fun to watch and it lends to the idea that these people have ability way beyond a normal human.

I will say flips can be helpful when you’re trying to jump very high distances. if you know what you’re doing you’re usually going to clear more air than if you just stood and jumped. For this reason Yoda’s fighting style makes sense to me.

Final verdict: leave the flips mid-sword fight to the Jedi