Maybe you just like those characters better but it’s not that OOC for Kagami or Plagg not to tell Adrien. Kagami lies when it suits her like she lied to her mother to be with Adrien. Right now she’s infatuated with Felix so his influence is a huge factor in not telling Adrien. Kagami also falls into the camp of people who believe Adrien is softer than them, especially after comparing him to Felix. I wouldn’t put it past her to omit information about his father to protect him. The most OOC thing is not telling him he’s a sentimonster but I consider this OOC for Marinette too because it’s a matter of safety. Those characters are usually far more wary about letting people wonder around with the remote control to themselves on their fingers without knowing. I’d actually consider it more in character for Marinette to take the ring herself and hide it away than to just… let him wander around like that in danger all the time…
As for Plagg, where’s the surprise? He’s always omitted info from Adrien and lied about things as Master Fu deigned, even before Marinette was guardian. There have been plenty of times when Plagg didn’t trust Adrien with things. Tikki trusted Marinette more in Sandboy. Plagg cares about Adrien. He won’t let anything immediate hurt him. He doesn’t want to lose him but he has largely been an observer in the affairs of Adrien’s life- a more detached one than Tikki even. This, even more than for Kagami, is in character for him.
This also isn’t wholly in character for Marinette. Besides letting him wander around without knowing his control switch is on his fingers without having a full on anxious meltdown 24/7, I really don’t understand why she wouldn’t tell Chat Noir. Unlike the Rena Furtive secret in Season 4, her partner knowing who Gabriel Agreste was isn’t really a liability anymore. She’s let up on her control. She’s giving out all the miraculous permanently now and she trusted Chat Noir to wield one of the most powerful of them and take the lead with the rabbit. She was about to tell him easily before she was distracted in the Agreste mansion. So why keep it from him now? That seems just as forced imo.
The thing is, this is a different kind of secret. Plagg kept secrets about the Guardians and the Miraculous, things that weren't really about Adrien per se, even if Adrien deserved to know about it. This, this is about Adrien. This is about his life. Plagg would never keep this secret from Adrien. Plagg, the one person (?) who is always on Adrien's side, who encourages him to fight for what he wants. That Plagg, who has always cared about Adrien's freedom, who is heavily implied to have been abused that way himself, he would keep this a secret from Adrien? Really?
Even in Sandboy, the secret wasn't about Adrien. It was about Plagg and the Kwamis. And Sandboy isn't a great example to use now, because that episode was when Adrien and Plagg's relationship began to change. Sandboy was a turning point. Plagg trusted Adrien after Sandboy. One of the points of that episode was for Plagg to start trusting Adrien like Tikki trusts Marinette because he realizes how much Adrien cares for him, and since that episode, Plagg has taken a more active role in encouraging Adrien and supporting him. This feels like a step back.
Plagg has spent Season 5 chiding Adrien and pushing him to stand up for himself and gain more agency in his life. So keeping something like this a secret... doesn't it run counter to everything Plagg has been saying and doing to help Adrien throughout the show? In Representation, Plagg was getting on Adrien's case for not standing up to his father. But now he knows why Adrien wasn't doing what Plagg wanted him to do, and instead of continuing to help, he just decides to hide it? Why?? Plagg has never been afraid of being blunt with Adrien and delivering the harsh truth. The only secrets he kept were those that weren't his to tell.
And the same with Kagami. Kagami only ever lied to one person, her mother. And that too was only to spend time with Adrien. She's always been blunt and honest with everyone else. She was encouraging Adrien to stand up to Gabriel in Risk. She wants Adrien to take charge of his life and be more assertive. Then why on earth would she keep this secret from him when it runs counter to that? It goes against everything she's said to him or told him or encouraged him to do. Kagami, like Plagg, has never concerned herself with protecting Adrien. She's always pushed him. She's never shied away from the truth. She has a very strong personality, and I do not believe that a romance with Felix would cause her to throw away all her values and morals in a heartbeat and lie to her friend this way. Kagami only ever lied to one person about an entirely different kind of situation, and based on how she's acted before, this is completely OOC for her.
And I will have to disagree with this being OOC for Marinette. I think it's completely in character. Thing is, Marinette doesn't think about these things. Marinette has consistently kept every important thing a secret from Chat Noir. This has been a thing since Season 4. Marinette doesn't think long term about consequences and implications. It's 100% in character for her to want to protect Adrien, which means lying to him and keeping him in a happy lie about who he is, because she fears that realizing he's a Sentimonster would break him. I highly doubt Marinette considered how Adrien himself might feel about it, or even what could happen. This is one of Marinette's flaws, that she can't put herself in others' shoes, and therefore makes decisions for them that they may not like.
Marinette didn't consciously push Chat Noir away, she just did it because. And she never fixed it. She was going to send the message to Chat Noir in the finale, but she actively chose not to. Her trusting Chat Noir with the Rabbit was an exception, and she never did anything of the sort again. It's completely in character for Marinette to not tell Chat Noir, just like it is for her to not tell Adrien. Truth of the matter is, Gabriel asked Marinette not to tell Adrien anything that would make him seem like a bad father under the guise of it being for Adrien's happiness, and Marinette carried out his request. It's very much in character for her, at least according to the characterization established in Seasons 4 and 5. But that's just me.
Do you think Marinette getting the ladybug miraculous and Adrien getting the cat miraculous could have worked?
Oh yes, they could've.
As Marinette is set power wise in how she uses the Ladybug, the biggest issue that needs to be addressed is Tikki. Tikki doesn't bring anything new to Marinette, she teaches to be responsible, be considerate of others, step up as a leader, be dedicated and productive and stay on top of things; and guess what, Marinette is already a lot of those. Tikki is just hammering those nails even deeper. And while Tikki can be supportive and affectionate, she doesn't truly back her humans, she wants them to handle things themselves. So paired with this, it's easy to get why Marinette is developing and Atlas complex with Tikki.
It's a big reason Plagg I think would've been the best kwami to pair with her, for he's her best foil. He's the best set up to have Marinette grow, learn to adjust herself. He's lazy to her being overly dedicated and productive, and he's selfish to her selflessness. I don't see Marinette flipping a coin and becoming like Plagg, but I can see her learning that she needs to draw a line somewhere, to not pile so much on her plate, that sometimes she needs to prioritize herself and her own needs and wants before others. It's also a big plus that Plagg will be in Marinette's court and have her back and get upset for her, something she really doesn't have in canon (at most she had Luka but they moved him to Brazil so... yeah she doesn't really have anyone in her corner).
But to make Tikki work, there are a few options.
1 is to have Marinette realize that Tikki doesn't always know what's best, and she shouldn't listen to everything Tikki says, calls out, or advises. That she should probably challenge Tikki and her stances sometimes.
2 is to make use of Master Fu, he could be the one to advise Marinette to not have full faith in Tikki and her stances, or you can make use of him being someone Tikki works for and have him tell Tikki that she needs to adjust herself and how she's handling Marinette.
3 is having a different kwami to work with Marinette and Tikki, having someone counter Tikki's words with their own, and Marinette has someone else to listen to and consider than Tikki. Ideally, I do think it needs to be a kwami who's going to recommend prioritizing Marinette's needs since Tikki is there to guide her humans to be a humanitarian.
Adrien with the Cat is good, but he can be better. I do think he needs to learn some self control and self restraint with the power of destructive, given he can be quite reckless and emotional with it (destroying things out of anger is not great, accidentally murdering Aeon is not great, moving to kill Scarabella is not great...). I do also think the Cat is meant to be more stealthy in combat, so Adrien could work at being a better planner and sneak attacker.
Plagg ideally should've helped with Adrien's rebellion, help him gain independence, to stand his ground against his father and play by his own rules. These are what Adrien needs, and plays into his wants. He wants to be more independent, and he does need to rebel against his father and his unreasonable rules. And Adrien can be a pleaser so he does need to learn to do things his way and not just go with the flow like his father/Chloe want him to.
Only drawback is that Adrien himself is pretty selfish and entitled (especially with Ladybug), and Plagg can feed into that. Plagg is also the sort to let consequences be a teacher than actually be involved in guiding humans to grow, but Adrien isn't the sort to take up blame or faults on his part, he'd pass it onto others and deny his own faults. And it especially doesn't help having Plagg deep in Adrien's corner that he'll get upset for him, like Kuro Neko, technically he needs to get Adrien off his butt and get moving instead of getting upset at Marinette. Like, good for Adrien to have that, he needs it in his household, but this isn't what he needs either.
So for Adrien to work with Cat, ultimately, Plagg needs to adjust and step up his game. Likewise, can make use of Master Fu to stress to Adrien that he needs to adjust how he uses the Cat if nothing can be done about Plagg. Honestly, Master Fu should've been very put off and wary in Syren when he came upon Adrien threatening to quit instead of being a hero and helping those in need.
Honestly, between the two, Adrien is the dicey choice. And given that quitting as come up three times with him, and he still hasn't changed much with how he is as a hero, he probably shouldn't have been a full time hero.
We know how Adrien and Félix used to trick everyone by switching themselves, maybe even making them think they switched when they're not.
So... what if Adrien used that trick in Kuro Neko?
He knows his cousin isn't his friends favorite person, to the point to even make Ladybug mad at him when she met him. His idea is to use his new hero persona as an experiment, to test how much Ladybug will miss him when having another partner; the catch is simple, he is gonna copy Félix's mannerism in order to trick Ladybug into thinking he is someone else.
Plagg even said the plan is fool's proof, because "how would Ladybug will prefer a boring stoic kid as Félix when she had charming and funny Chat Noir at her side?"
However, he's not gonna trick her into thinking he is Félix exactly, but use his cousin's usual personality and actions as a base for Catwalker.
Someone stric, serious, intelligent and independent who would never joke around in battle. He expected Ladybug to miss him, but never to see her so calm, focused and much determined now that she's not doing twice the work.
She may or may not deveload feelings for Catwalker, depends if you want a romantic or platonic Felinette route, but she likes him enough to accept him as a partner now that Chat Noir is suposed to be retired. That doesn't mean she isn't feeling down because she misses her friend, however.
Imagine how hilarious could be for Ladybug to connect way wrong the dots and assume Félix is the actual Catwalker, acting nice around him while not so subtle trying to "hide her discovery of his identity", just for the real Félix to be afraid of her, thinking she will punch him in the face again.
Marinette is even interested to befriend him as a civilian, talking to him and noticing how both boys have the same conversation topics: cinefile taste, books, theatre and fashion. Yeah, Adrien knows his cousin's favorite movies, books and musicals.
Plagg is distressed that his plan gone so wrong, but Tikki is happy to see her bug having a new friend over.
can i just say how much i h a t e plagg in kuro neko? "you've been hanging out with other big cheeses", bro, buddy, my guy, you wouldn't survive the winter. just because i have a favourite co-worker, doesn't mean i can't hang out with other people from the office???? i wanna squish this little rodent and put him in a time-out jar for this stupid, passive-aggressive remark.
Ive seen clips of Kuro Neko and Plagg in them??? Wtf. Like wtf. He's a complete dick??
Like Plagg in other episodes, like, obviously seems to care about Adrien, but in that grizzled mentor way. He tells Adrien to get over himself when that's what he needs to hear, and he supports him too.
So like I really don't see where this sudden "Marinette you are the worst ever!" attitude has come from, except for the writers rule where Marinette has to "learn a lesson" *cough* suffer *cough*. And it just so happens that today Plagg is the writer's mouthpiece.
Which is objectively a shit decision. It doesn't make sense with Plaggs character and its completely destroyed the fandom perception of Plagg when this is so clearly meant to endear him to the audience.
I saw your post about your opinion on Plagg shouting at Marinette (and the rest of the ep but this is the point i'd like to focus on)
Ok so im not trying to change your opinion, n nor am i trying to salt on you for not liking thta
But i'd just like to explain- Y do u hate that?
Because while Plagg's words didnt come across exactly how he meant to, his heart was in a good place... Marinette needed to be explained how Adrien was feeling...
Despite you being an Adrien salter, u know that Adrien felt left out, and that was one of the main things trying to be resolved here! Plagg was trying to tell her how Cat Noir actually felt since communication hadnt been the best!
I get that u might be upset because the subbed version shows plagg saying " You didnt do anything?? U sure??" or something along those lines, because he was sick of the ignorance! While the whole thing wasnt Marinette's *fault*, per se, she was partly responsible for the miscommunication n the "conflict" as it is called
Well yeah, but I hate that scene because the way Plagg framed his words came off as really mean and he framed it all as Marinette’s fault. Marinette doesn't even know Chat is feeling left out and that's because HE never told her how he felt. So, if Plagg is sick of the ignorance, he should also say something to his holder instead of just shouting at Marinette.
Plagg was supporting Adrien and making him feel better while scolding Marinette and blaming all of it on her. Plagg knows Marinette is the guardian now and she just has more important things to worry about than catering to Chat Noir’s needs but Plagg, in that scene, made it all about Chat noir.
I would have been more okay if he actually said something to Adrien too and not just Marinette who always has to take everyone's scoldings and put up with them. Marinette shouldn't be the only one to face consequences and fix her mistakes.
Also, if LB ever shouts at chat noir because she is getting problems because of him, people bash her but when plagg shouts at Marinette because cn wasn't her first priority, people are quick to defend him and Plagg. I am sorry if I don't follow this fandom rule.
But why is there never a conversation about PLAGG, and how his actions harm the people around him?
His actions and attitude and motives change by the episode, but if poor writing quality is not an excuse for any other character, then the same should hold true for the Kwami of Destruction.
_________________________
Plagg is the one that insisted Adrien not tell Marinette he was leaving the city undefended.
Plagg is the one that ignored the Peacock Miraculous sitting in plain sight in Gabriel’s safe.
Plagg ignored all of the very serious implications of Gabriel having the Miraculous Codex/Grimoire, especially after Marinette brought up her suspicions of Gabriel being Hawkmoth.
Plagg is constantly encouraging Adrien to skip out on battles, to not take anything seriously, to skip school, etc.
So, consider:
The ReflekDoll fight is a lot more challenging. Chat Noir is still insisting on goofing off and showing off and mansplainimg her own powers to her, And Marinette finds herself having to race off to recharge after using her Cataclysm to trap the Amok and Akuma duo, while Chat Noir is behind, still trying to figure out how to use the Lucky Charm he summoned: “a Christmas ornament, shaped like an antler? What am I supposed to do with this!?!?”
Marinette desperately hopes that Chat Noir can figure out the Lucky Charm without her help; she’d already wasted three of her five minutes saving Chat Noir’s life while he insisted to her over and over again “why isn’t the magical ladybug-o-vision kicking in, M'Lady!?” And refused to listen when she told him, over and over again, that there WAS no power to go with the Lucky Charm. You had to figure it out yourself.
With two minutes left to transform and no time or opportunity to swap Miraculous’ back with Chat Noir, Marinette dives into an alley that is close at hand, just in time to detransform.
As her transformation fell away in a flash of green light, a tiny black kwami came spiraling out of the Ring, looking exhausted.
Catching the Kwami out of the air, Marinette started digging around in her purse with her free hand. “I’m sorry Plagg, I don’t have any cheese with me, but I have some of Tikki’s cookies in here. Ah! Here we go, I have some chocolate macaroons here you can have!” Marinette explained, fishing the resealable bag of cookies out of her purse.
Plagg turns his nose up at the cookie she offers him. “EW! I’m not eating THAT! Don’t you know that cheeeeeeeeese is my power up food? I want Camembert!” Plagg demands, his whining voice turning into a nag worthy of a toddler.
Marinette stared at the Kwami.“Plagg, there’s an Akuma AND an Amok out there, terrorizing the city!” she exclaimed finally, wondering how Plagg could have forgotten the dire situation so quickly.
“You better hurry up and find me Camembert then,” the Kwami pouted, “I can’t power your Miraculous transformation without Camembert!”
Taking a deep breath, Marinette let it out in a gust. “Plagg, I’ve already wielded multiple Miraculous before. I already know you don’t need a specific food to recharge, any food will work. This is an emergency, Plagg, people’s lives are in danger.” Marinette explained, fighting to keep her patience.
She could hear the sound of the battle, even from here.
“I don’t care! I want Camembert! I’m not touching that gross cookie, just because the Sugar Cube likes it doesn’t mean I will!” The Kwami retorted, crossing his paws over his chest defiantly. “Besiiiides, why are you in such a rush to get back to the fight? Kick back, relaaaax, and let someone else deal with the villains.” The Kwami yawned theatrically.
Feeling a tension headache making itself known, Marinette rubbed her temple to stave off the frustration boiling up in her blood before digging furiously in her purse once more. “Because, Plagg, Chat Noir is out there on his own, he needs my help, and people’s lives are at stake! Please, even if you don’t like the cookies, will you eat one of these?” Proffering her open palm, Marinette presented the Kwami with a handful of the miscellaneous candy and snacks from the bottom of her bag: butterscotch discs, cinnamon discs, peppermints, strawberry hard candies, sweet tarts, and a single, small tube of glucose tablets she kept on hand, just in case.
Pursing his lips, Plagg surveyed the offered food and shook his head. “Nope. I want camambert. Give me Camembert, or give me death!” He exclaimed.
Dropping the candy back into her purse with agressive motions, Marinette buried her head in her hands and screamed, fighting to keep her voice down.
Stiffening as she heard footsteps approaching, Marinette scooped Plagg out of the air and tucked him into the pocket of her jacket, rolling her eyes when she felt him curl up immediately and start just loud enough for her to hear.
This cat was almost as insufferable as his wielder!
“Marinette, is that you?” A familiar voice questioned as the footsteps drew nearer, and Marinette sighed in profound relief as the owner of the voice moved into view, holding a drink cooler by the handle.
“Master Fu!” Marinette exclaimed, rushing up to the Guardian, “Please, I need a different Miraculous! Plagg is being impossible!”
Explaining the situation to Master Fu, the Guardian asks Plagg is he wants to continue to do battle, or if he wants to be retired. Plagg chooses retirement in a heartbeat.
Marinette leaves the Ring of the Black Cat in the Guardian’s care, and chooses a new Miraculous, not one that she is picking just for herself, but one that is picking the most for her partner to be using long term. She chooses carefully, and hopes the Kwami will be able to be a better influence on Chat Noir out of the suit.
It was obvious Plagg had no wish to take an active part in the battle with Hawkmoth, and Marinette could only imagine what his everyday attitude was like, if this is how he acted around another hero when he knew how high the stakes were, let alone how much worse he would be when he was around someone he was casual around.
Marinette returns to the battle, new Miraculous equipted to help Chat Noir take down the duo of Supervillains, and at the end of the battle, Tikki returns to her, and the new Kwami gets sent over to Adrien with the new Miraculous to explain the situation with Plagg choosing to stay in the Miracle Box. Adrien is aware of who the Guardian is, and is determined to go and convince Plagg to come back to him.
We all know how that conversation will end, but how does it go? What Miraculous does Marinette choose for Adrien to wield? What kind of personality does the Kwami in question have? What power does Adrien now command, instead of Destruction?
Rules for the blog - send a prompt
And then Marinette realizes that the kwami are slaves and that being uncooperative and annoying is literally the only way Plagg has of rebelling because there’s nothing else he can do to avoid things he hates.
I have a different problem with Plagg. What are your thoughts about Plagg insisting in calling Tikki sugarcube. I think that's definitely a problem
Yep, he’s Adrien’s counterpart through and through. Doesn’t care about anyone but himself, irresponsible as hell, doesn’t respect women, literally mirrors of eachtoher.
Do you help new miraculous content creators if they ask you for tips? Also, do you have any Fix with stormy weather 2? #I really think that I didn’t do the question properly #I apologize if I am rude
I try to help when I can, if I don’t respond to a question it’s because 1) I’m in a bad place to answer (at break at work/on the road/just about to go to sleep etc) 2) I’ve already answered a similar question, or 3) I’m thinking out my answer.
Or like THIS ask I had it ¾ typed out and then switched tabs and accidentally closed this one and lost all that I had typed alkdsjflajsdflka
Now for fixing Stormy Weather 2. Well first I have to rip it a new asshole (and maybe a third asshole to go above the second one) and then I’ll try to salvage it. Whooo this is gonna be a long one, so strap in:
1. Resolve your damn Akuma. This means two things. First, you can’t bring back a fan favorite akuma, ramp up the drama to Earth Leaves Orbit levels of intensity, and then defeat her off screen somewhere with a reporter (a reporter with a repeat name which is one of my pet peeves akdsjfalkd) giving us a vague play by play! Or you can, but it’s incredibly unsatisfying especially in an already unsatisfying episode. Second, resolve Aurore. Aurore was shafted on having a complete arc in her debut episode (she never apologizes to Mireille or has a moment of guilt for reacting to losing so poorly) so when I heard they were bringing her back, I hoped for some closure for her. It wasn’t such a big deal in Stormy Weather because she wasn’t a reoccurring character and we were establishing formula, but now she literally has a second episode named after her, so we’ll get some resolution, right? Nope. What was Aurore’s problem in this episode? If you asked Aurore, it’s struggling to balance Work and School. Yet it wasn’t the stress from this that brought on her akuma. It was Chloe insulting her akumasona and insisting that she hasn’t changed and of course Once a Villain, Always a Villain. It’s Chloe’s voice in her head saying things that have nothing to do with Aurore’s root problem that turn her. And we don’t even see Aurore at the end of the episode, so for all we know, she still harbors those insecurities. Bonus: Why was so much of Aurore’s set up confusing? Is Aurore the weather girl now? When did that happen? She works at the station?? Are we missing an episode??? Is this like Guitar Villain where they fucked up an episode order???
How to fix this? Well first of all, make Aurore’s problems actually relevant to what Chloe is driving at. Start with Aurore becoming the new Weather Girl. Mireille has stepped down, she either didn’t like it or her contract ran out. So Aurore is stepping up to the plate. She’s happy but super nervous. She admits Mireille was really good and won her spot fair and square, she’s going to be a tough act to follow. But Aurore thinks she’s got what it takes. Chloe disagrees. She lays into Aurore about how she’s the runner up, the loser and that hasn’t changed. People will be disappointed to see her instead of Mireille, shes’s just as unpopular and just as unwanted as before. She Hasn’t Changed.
So Stormy Weather is born. And no volcanoes dammit, something weather related, thanks! Tornadoes, Cyclones, Hurricanes, hell yes! And she’s defeated. On screen please. At least the part where they release the akuma.
When Aurore wakes up, she’s afraid. She’s scared that everything Chloe said was right. She even became the same villain she was before. But she’s reassured “You’re not the same. You’ve come so far. Didn’t you praise Mireille for working hard? Didn’t you acknowledge your flaws but worked to overcome them? You’re so different from who you were before. You’ve made so much effort to be better than before.”
And when Chloe tries to rip into Aurore again, have someone remind them she’s been akumatized too, Antibug. “Oh, I’m sorry, I meant Queen Wasp. Wait, which name are you going by this time?”
2. Keep on theme. One wouldn’t think this should be hard but OOOOH BOY. The theme of the episode is People Can Change. (And obviously that their character have changed, but we’ll get there) We know this because the Bad characters (Chloe and Hawkmoth) both state that “People don’t change” and “Once a Villain, Always a Villain” which is a pretty basic way of setting up the theme. Have the Bad characters state the antithesis of the theme, have the Good characters struggle with whether or not the Bad characters are right. Then come to the conclusion that, no, the Bad characters are wrong, or they’re right, but not in the way they think they are.
Yet they have flashbacks that contradict each other (Sabrina remembering Chloe using the Miraculous for Good, but Ladybug remembering Chloe using the Miraculous for Bad), we have flashbacks that show no change at all (literally when has Ladybug and Chat Noir had difficulty fighting together when an akuma’s power wasn’t involved?) and most egregious, Adrien unknowingly aligns himself with the Bad characters by complimenting Ladybug by saying “She never changes”. So unless this is setting him up to join Hawkmoth (in which case this might be the most clever the writing has ever been and I will eat my words) they fucked up. The theme is all over the place. Is change good? Bad? Unobtainable? Can people change or do they not? What is it they’re trying to say with this episode???
Fix: Simple. Consider the message your flashbacks are ACTUALLY saying. And cut the ones that don’t support your theme. Don’t put contradicting flashbacks next to each other (better yet don’t have contradicting flashbacks at all). Eliminate flashbacks that don’t show change at all (the LadyNoir fights. If you still want fights, how about FIGHTING THE AKUMA IN FRONT OF YOU.) And have Adrien compliment Ladybug because she’s constantly improving. “She just gets better and better. Everyday she surprises me by being even more innovative and even more incredible.” Something sappy like that. Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy. If the Bad Guys insist that People Don’t Change, you gotta prove to the Good Guys and US that People Do. Unless this is a bleak, Oh Shit the Bad Guys are Right kind of Episode. …but Thomas’ twitter seems to suggest it was the former they were going for.
3. The Flashbacks. OoooooOOoh the Flashbacks. In this section I’m just going to discuss how they’re used as a literary device. There’s too many of them, they contribute nothing, and they run out air time. They don’t even flow naturally. The point of a flashback is to add to a characters backstory or unveil a hidden truth to the audience. But none of the flashbacks used do this except for Nathalie’s and possibly the first DJWifi one, which was so blissfully short it’s almost in a different category of narrative device. With her exception (which is only an exception because of her narration, other wise it would be just as bad as the rest of them), the flashbacks come in with shaky prompting, they don’t give a new insight to an event from a new POV or even new animation, they don’t help any of the characters come to a sudden realization, they don’t add new information, they Do. Nothing. Let’s look at them one by one:
Marinette remembers the time she dug Adrien’s Valentine out of the trash. Prompted by: Her talking to Tikki about not being able to talk to Adrien.
Nathalie remembers times she interacted with the Agreste’s with narration about her growing feelings. Prompted by: Taking notes for Gabriel.
Two Clips of Gabriel being a Douche. Prompted by: Nooroo wondering if maybe Gabriel should stop being a Douche.
One Clip of Adrien jumping out of an akumas hand. Prompted by: Hawkmoth wondering if he’s going to far…and then immediately dismissing the idea.
A few Clips of Plagg guzzling cheese. Prompted by: Plagg insisting he hasn’t changed because he still loves cheese. That checks out.
Adrien remembering going to school and gaining friends. Prompted by: Plagg insisting Adrien has changed his own life.
Adrien remembering the two times Gabriel did the barest minimum to not suck. And also the birthday gift he didn’t actually give Adrien. Prompted by: Plagg of ALL people insisting that Gabriel has changed too.
Nino and Alya remembering the time they were locked in a cage and given Miraculous. Also how Nino sucks at hiding his identity. Prompted by: The two of them discussing how they even got together.
Clips of just a few of the many many times Chloe has been a Douche. Prompted by: Chloe insisting no one is nicer than her…
Clips of one time Chloe followed a direct order from Ladybug and from when Chloe was Queen Bee. But like on purpose that time. Prompted by: Sabrina trying to hype up how great Chloe is.
Clips of Chat Noir and Ladybug fighting akumas (including Queen Wasp) and getting new powers and trusting each other more. Prompted by: Ladybug thinking Stormy Weather is stronger, but so are they.
Remembering Chat Noir setting up a date for Ladybug and Ladybug having to reject him. Prompted by: Plagg OF ALL people insisting Ladybug’s not so great because she has feelings for someone else ajlskdfjalsdfja
Adrien remembering when he first got that heart shaped card and thinking it was from ladybug. Prompted by: You know…looking at that card? And also looking at Marinette’s handwritting.
Adrien remembering Marinette deflecting the idea that she was into him. Prompted by: Thinking maybe the card could be from Marinette.
Adrien remembering Luka and Marinette on their ice rink date. Prompted by: More deflecting the idea that Marinette could be into Adrien because one time she went on a date with a boy.
This is also the flashback they chose to end on.
So ….that’s a lot of flashbacks. Some of them are barely there, some drag out way past their welcome. Some are actually well utilized, but some are just terribly implemented. Example: Nino narrating over the clip of Ladybug throwing them into the panther’s cage that that was the moment he and Alya “got together”? Good! It’s short, and even though we kind of knew that was the moment, now we have Nino confirming that that was the beginning of canon DJWifi. Not world shattering revelation, but it is something. Alya remembering them becoming heroes? Bad. It’s way too long, including both of their transformation sequences, and plays exactly as it did in Heroes Day. And why show us this? Did they think we? Forgot? That Nino and Alya are sometimes heroes??
The reason the flashbacks are particularly irritating, is because we don’t need them. Why couldn’t Plagg just remind Adrien about Gabriel playing piano with him with dialogue? Why’d we need to be shown it? Why did Marinette go from lamenting her inability to talk to Adrien to reading the Valentine? When thinking about “going too far” why can Hawkmoth only think of one time Adrien was in danger, when there were several times that he could’ve summed up with “Am I risking the family I have for the family I could have?” It’s excessive and wasteful. And it feels like they don’t think we’re smart enough to remember things. There are ways to get their point across that doesn’t kill air time and pacing but they went this incredibly lazy route. And maybe this would be forgivable if there wasn’t an agenda behind the flashbacks.
4. The Agenda Behind the Flashbacks. We all see what your doing, Thomas. You’re not sneaky. Soooo many people were criticizing you for having unmoving characters that you threw up your hands and said “You wanna see character growth?! I’ll show you some Goddamn Character Growth!” But you didn’t. You did the opposite. You isolated a few tiny examples for your argument but forgot the other 40+ episodes of evidence pointing to the contrary. But we didn’t forget. Noooo we did not. So let’s go character by character to see how they “changed” and how they MOST CERTAINLY have not.
Well, okay, so the first example is a bad example of what I just said, because they did the opposite with her. They started the “struggle” of whether or not characters change with Marinette of all people. Marinette, who’s become more confident, more clever, more sympathetic, more sacrificing. Marinette, who not just from Origins but from within the show itself has had to overcome her jealousy issues and her insecurities, learn to stand up to scarier and scarier adversaries. Marinette, the one character who actually HAS changed. And they focused on the fact she can’t talk to her crush about her feelings.
You know, that crush that repeatedly refers to her as “JUST” a friend, who wrote a Valentine to some mystery girl she doesn’t know, who asked for advice on how to ask out another girl. Yeah, it’s really wild that Marinette hasn’t made strides in this department. But it’s okay, because Marinette has made HUGE steps in this very episode! She signed her note this time! She’s practically a WhOlE nEw PeRsOn!
You had it. You had the perfect character to show how much “change” you’ve had. And you didn’t. Use it. O_O
I won’t harp on Nathalie too much. They seem determined to insist she’s fully devoted to the Agreste family and it’s hard to argue that point thanks to this episode and her personal narration. Though every episode until this I had a pretty good This is Bullshit Argument going. So instead I’ll just say it came from nowhere, but go off I guess.
They use Plagg, PLAGG OF ALL CHARACTERS (I’m still not over that, what the fuck) to insist that Gabriel is changing for the better. Gabriel. GABRIEL. The guy who’s actually gotten WORSE over the series! The guy who USED to let Adrien go to races and game tournaments and Mime shows in season 1, but NOW won’t let Adrien go and get ice cream or see fireworks or his friend’s band practice in season 2! THAT GUY is getting better because he eventually let Adrien go meet with his friends?! Because he LET his son watch a movie with his own mother in it?! THAT GUY is changing for the better?!?!?! I see what you’re trying to set up and your WRONG!!!!!
Every example they used for how much Adrien’s life has changed, every two things they brought up, happened in the first episode. That’s not growth, that’s a fucking starting point. Adrien began the series going to school, he began the series getting new friends. But we all know why they had to go with those options. Because Adrien hasn’t grown at all and all this episode did was put a huuuuuge spot light on that fact. Thank you for just proving that point by only thinking of two things that have changed for him that literally happened in the First. Episode. I could think of a few things that have changed, but they’re definitely not flattering. *cough* Nice Guy™ *cough*
Apparently the only things that have changed for Nino and Alya is that they’re a couple and they’re superheroes. Well, I guess thanks for pointing out that they’ve been stagnant from the beginning. How boring. Maybe if a character hasn’t changed for good or bad, don’t waste screen time on it in an episode about how characters change???
And Chloe. Holy HELL Chloe. The only way Chloe even remotely works is if this episode is a set up for the fact that Chloe failed. If she’s not redeemed and they’re acknowledging it. If she’s not going to be added to the hero roster in the future and she’s getting more and more furious about it. She’s back in top form in this episode. She bullies Aurore with no prompting and with the intention of continuing her onslaught had Aurore not escaped, is a total hypocrite, is entitled about the bee Miraculous, and unrepentant the whole time. She’s back to her Season 1 self, but every fear I had with her getting everything she wanted came true. And if this was the episode they wanted to own it? I’d be fine.
I mean, I know like a huge part of the fandom wouldn’t be fine, but at least it would make a modicum of sense. Here Lies Chloe’s Development, 2k18-2k19.
Yet….they kind of tried to say different? Like, what was Chloe’s screen time devoted to? First, Bullying Aurore, then Marinette, then Alya even though she didn’t say anything to her. Then, she’s on her roof, shining her Bee Light in the sky and stomping her foot demanding her Miraculous, insisting she’s the Nicest, Best person for the job. We are then treated to clips of Chloe threatening the Principal to get out of cleanup for pulling the fire alarm, something Chloe did, and Chloe ignoring Sabrina’s very existence. Then they try to backtrack on that with clips of Chloe helping Ladybug in Despair Bear and being Queen Bee, as if to say “well, she got better.” Then Stormy Weather arrives and Chloe digs in her heels and says for the second time “Once a Villain, Always a Villain.” Then we’re shown a clip of Ladybug and Char Noir fighting Queen Wasp, Chloe’s second VILLAIN form! Eventually Chloe is released from her ice prison but with zero gratitude, saying “Queen Bee would’ve been faster and better.” Chloe’s time was devoted to giving us tonal whiplash and ping ponging between “Chloe’s Terrible!” to “Chloe’s a Hero!” Except they keep lingering on the Terrible part.
I’m just confused, because this could work. I swear it can. If the whole point of this is that Chloe’s redemption failed? This all makes sense. Chloe’s “good” points are brought up by Sabrina, a biased untrustworthy narrator. And it can actually be a good set up for future episodes where Chloe is not given the bee and is getting more and more angry about it, especially because she was foolish enough to share her identity so her peers are ribbing her about it. The only problem with this is the let down for all the people rooting for Chloe. Lot’s of people were hoping Chloe would become worthy of the Bee, and while lots and lots and LOTs were let down by the Battles of the Queens, some were still holding out hope. So this would definitely kill the vibe for those people. Personally, while I’m confused at least this route would make some sense. So I’ll…hold my judgement on this bit. I will tell you when it first came out I was really pissed at it though.
Plagg isn’t being screwed over by the flashbacks themselves, he’s just screwed over by the dialogue. Plagg who’s always tried to get Adrien to be a little selfish with his time is now defending Gabriel-No-Fun-Allowed Agreste? Plagg who was the first to point out Ladybug never said she’d show up for the picnic is now using this as a reason why Ladybug isn’t all that great? Yeah, miss me with that OOC bullshit, bring me back my son.
I think that’s all the characters they went for, so okay. How do we fix this. How do we fix anything with these flashbacks.
Fix this by using flashbacks as they are intended. Each flashback needs to include a new piece of information, either for the audience or for the characters speaking. For Marinette’s first flashback, instead of playing the whole thing, show Marinette reading the Valentine with narration how at the time she thought it was for her, but she now realizes it was meant for someone else. That’s new information for the audience. For Adrien, maybe the fact that he can’t think of how he’s changed is a good thing. It can be a spark for him deciding to be better, to train harder and become more serious about his job. Nothing will change until he puts in the effort. That can help a moral of the episode: That People Can Change, but Only Through Honest Effort.
Dig in with Gabriel = Bad. I know they’re trying to make Gabriel more sympathetic by making it out like he’s improving, but they’re just wrong. He’s not. Not unless he does a near 180 in this season. So instead of making him think of that one time Adrien was in danger, give him flashes, quick, rapid flashes of innocent people in danger. Nathaniel screaming when Horrificator grabs him, cars crashing because Backwarder sent that woman into the crosswalk, Kim and Max running from Animan as a panther. Show all the people he doesn’t know, how far he ACTUALLY has gone for his goals. And then have him shake it off. We already know he doesn’t care about Adrien’s safety or else Gorizilla wouldn’t have happened at all. This shows us that he doesn’t care about people in general. Like the DJWifi flashback, we could infer this, but this makes the audience have to think about it and makes it about Gabriel’s character.
Have Chloe argue her worthiness with someone else. Maybe Stormy Weather.
“Ooh Chloe, what’s wrong? No one came to give you a Miraculous? Maybe they realized that you didn’t deserve it.”
“Excuse you?! I am the nicest person ever! Of COURSE I deserve it!”
“Wasn’t so nice of you to pull the fire alarm and try to frame Marinette. Wasn’t so nice of you to pretend your best friend didn’t exist!”
“How dare you?! I’ll have you know Ladybug never could’ve defeated Despair Bear without me! And she’s constantly relied on me as Queen Bee!”
“Was that before or after you crashed that train? Or maybe it was after you turned your own father into an akuma! What was it you told me earlier? Once a Villain, Always a Villain? Well, you would know Queen Wasp!”
You don’t need a flashback to recall a scene from earlier in the series. If you did, every series would be filled with them. Typically a series has enough faith in their audience that they’ll remember a line or moment or object without having to devote screen time to showing it to us the exact same way they did the first time. So replace some with verbal call backs or with a quick flash of the previous moment. Instead of showing the full flashback of Adrien reading the Valentine out loud to Plagg, just show a flash of it drifting next to him and his eyes landing on it. Instead of showing the entire time Luka and Marinette were together at the rink, flash between their faces and him holding her hand and their lift in rapid succession. It helps the pacing and doesn’t steal focus from the fact that it’s Adrien remembering this. And of course, get rid of flashbacks that don’t add anything. We didn’t need to see every characters transformation to remember they’re heroes or villains. We don’t need to see CN and LB kick several akumas asses to remember they fight well together. We don’t need to see Adrien sneaking into school or being surrounded by his peers to remember he goes to school now and has friends.
TLDR: Start with Aurore becoming the new weather girl, nervous to follow what she admit’s is Mireille’s very impressive lead. Chloe antagonizes Aurore over being the runner up and that her lack of popularity hasn’t changed. Aurore worries that Chloe’s right and that she’ll be unwanted even though she’s worked hard to compete with Mireille. She becomes Stormy Weather.
Marinette notes maybe Chloe’s right about Adrien (mentions that she thought his Valentine was for her but realizes now it was meant for someone else). But then she and Tikki talk about how she’s improved - confidence, controls her jealousy, is more assertive towards adults. Switch to Agreste Mansion, everything plays same as episode up to Gabriel turning into Hawkmoth (maybe skip transformation. Might leave it because it’s only the second time we’ve seen it).
Hawkmoth wonders if Nooroo’s right about going too far, has a series of quick flashes to all the people he’s terrorized, but comes to the conclusion there’s no going back now. In Adrien’s room, Plagg is saying he likes when people don’t change and talks about his cheese fetish. Adrien insists that change is the only way for things to improve. Plagg tries to insist that Adrien’s life has changed, but Adrien admits that was just the first step and he hasn’t done much to challenge his life since then. Plagg tries to bring up some changes with Gabriel, but every positive is challenged with a negative from Adrien. He played piano with me? He didn’t let me see the fireworks with my friends. He let me see my mom’s movie? Only after I was nearly squashed by an akuma which would’ve been avoided if he let me go to the movies in the first place. etc.
Stormy Weather makes herself known. She’s blowing the city away with tornadoes. Alya and Nino are huddled talking about how Hawkmoth seems to be getting worse. But they admit their lives are different thanks to him or rather thanks to Ladybug inadvertently bringing them together. They also talk about the other time they’ve been together (sitting together, getting ice cream, when he tried to protect her in Anansi). Then Nora and the girls crowd them into the living room away from the windows where it’s dangerous and they huddle together, Nora making sure to include Nino who’s earned her trust.
Chloe’s shining her light in the sky and getting frustrated. As she starts to whine about where Ladybug is with her miraculous, Stormy Weather appears and teases Chloe for being left out, which Chloe counters with how great she is. Stormy list the “nice things” Chloe’s done (pulling the alarm and ignoring Sabrina) and Chloe fires back she’s worked with Ladybug. Stormy continues to taunt Chloe for the awful things she did with the Miraculous and calls her Queen Wasp before freezing her. Then the battle with Ladybug and Chat Noir begins.
Clara (who is not Clara btw they used the wrong model look it up in the wiki) can still give the play by play, but this is because the fight is happening in the distance. We still see Ladybug and Chat Noir fighting against Stormy Weather, but it’s so far away we can’t hear the banter or see the details. We’re getting the Parisian Civilian Experience of an Akuma fight, which is unclear but still in plain view. The fight ends with a similar but slightly altered version of what took down Stormy Weather down the first time and Ladybug cleanses the akuma.
Ladybug takes Aurore down to the ground level (convienitently in front of the TV Station). Aurore feels upset about becoming an akuma, the same akuma as before, and thinks it’s proof that Chloe was right - that she hasn’t changed. But Ladybug reassures her that she knows Aurore has worked really hard and she knows she’s become a better person since the first time they met. Aurore is confused how Ladybug could possibly know that but luckily her timer is running low so she and Chat Noir bounce.
Marinette leaves the notes for Adrien, this goes the same as in canon. When Tikki praises Marinette, she says “I’ve changed in so many ways, I can change here too.”
In his room, Adrien sighs over how Ladybug only ever seems to improve, only gets more and more clever and amazing. Plagg reminds him that she may be great but she’s got her sights set on someone else and maybe it’s time he does the same, bringing out the fancards. Adrien tells Plagg “It’s not that simple. Even if I wanted to change my mind, the heart wants what it wants. I can’t stop loving someone as simple as that. But I can become better. Ladybug’s always improving herself so maybe it’s time I do the same. I need to keep up with her example.”
Nathalie drops off Marinette’s notes. Adrien has a quick flash of when he first lays eyes on the “Ladybug” Valentine before comparing the handwritting on both, remarking that they’re very similar. He thinks back to the moment Marinette stuttered through that she’s into fashion and doesn’t think of him that way (and JUST that part, we don’t need the whole thing jesus) and says “She already said she doesn’t love me. There’s no way this is from her…right? Besides, there’s…(quick flashes of Luka and Marinette having fun at the ice rink) Luka.”
Resigned, he says “There’s no way it’s from Marinette.”
