When I think of "talisman", I automatically think of paper ones, but I also think of them as just being little tokens as well. The post does say "etched with protective sigils" so I'd say metal engravings also count...
Metal such as.... THESE PERHAPS??? 🤨🤨🤨
It'd be so cute if they exchanged matching talisman braclets 🥺
But maybe more realistically they mightve gotten them from Ocudeus, maybe as something to strengthen the hivemind connection, to protect them bc they're host bodies, or to just marking them further as his clergy so to speak 🤔 (the seaspring accepts all gender presentations... but the jewelry is non-optional)
Also, what about THESE?
Not really etched but maybe they also count as like, the senobium's corporate valentine obligation gift? Or just a "don't waste our resources (you) here's a talisman for your uniform"
But then again, Basilea's has a small design on it and Leander's doesn't 🤔
That could just be a difference in gem cut buuuuuuut we know that Leander's broach and belt buckle were stolen... so is it possible that Basilea's is engraved bc her family still loves her and Leander's isn't bc his doesn't? 🤨 or that he just doesn't have anyone who would... or he knows that even if someone would, that he wouldn't think it would really work bc he's not close to anyone? 😥 He does say "we make our own luck down here"! Maybe this is a tradition he's not fond of bc he only trusts that he can protect himself... but not fully protect others, "I can protect you but only if you trust me" 👀👀👀👀 (I wish there was a more intense eyes emoji)
And is it just me or do these two look similar?
We still don't know exactly what the one eyed white haired flying purple people eater little guy that we occasionally see in rss's posts is but we see him here in Leander's batch of chocolates and once in Ais's schedule. Maybe Basilea's gem is just like, a senobium window symbol or something buuuuuut.... could it be this creature somehow? 🤨
Ais and Leander do foil eachother quite a lot... but maybe at this point I'm just like this:
I think all Undertale fans need to put the concept of amnesia up on the top shelf until they learn what it means and/or can give some actual evidence of it being the case that isn’t easily explainable by something much more plausible.
Because tbh I’ve seen the “Papyrus has amnesia” theory most often used to either discredit everything he says, ignore potential evidence, bend the text to fit the theory instead of seeing if the theory fits the text, or to prop up Sans as some sort of special magic man who didn’t get the timeline jumper amnesia we’ve suddenly decided is a thing with meager evidence because he gets to be more special than his brother for some reason!
“But Papyrus forgets people’s names and can’t tell Toriel and Asgore apart—“
Name/Face blindness is not the same as general or situational amnesia. Someone can have difficulty recognizing someone or confuse someone for someone else without having had a traumatic event, injury, or time travel magic put on them. Someone can be missing several years of their life without forgetting people’s names. These are not the same thing.
The “Spooky Bloo Bloo” line in particular was more likely Papyrus just not remembering Napstablook’s name because he doesn’t go to Waterfall much outside of Undyne’s house. He has no reason to put much effort into remembering the name of a random neighbor of hers that he doesn’t talk to.
“But he doesn’t remember what the sun is—“
Bluntly wrong! He mentions wanting the “sun on his skin” to Frisk before that ending scene, he knows what the sun is.
We already know that Papyrus has a tendency to say he doesn’t know what things are and then totally contradict that later or in a different context. Without Sans’s presence, he’ll go on about how his brother loves sciencey stuff and totally have the preconceived belief that the “lab” is associated with “science”, proving that he knows what those are. When Sans is with him on the call, however, he will start acting like he doesn’t know what a lab is. There’s a good couple potential reasons for this (ragebating his brother, playing a role for the bit, perhaps avoiding a difficult/uncomfortable conversation, maybe hiding something from Sans specifically), but we know he’s lying because we already have proof that he knows what a lab is, which is a conversation with Frisk that can happen before or without ever having Sans present for that phone call. It’s not unreasonable to suggest that, considering he mentions the sun long before the ending of the game, this is another one of those cases. Especially because he’s surrounded by people who are experiencing the sun for the first time ever and has a reason to try to blend in here if he does in fact know what the sun is!!!
“But he trails off when trying to tell us about where he lived before—“
I have no idea why people are taking an example of Papyrus explicitly remembering something as a sign of amnesia. Like, when you say it out like that, doesn’t it seem kinda silly??? This is the big time we get to hear the man recount something and he does and because he ‘didn’t tell us enough’ before leaving, he has??? amnesia??? Hello???
This newsletter interview conversation was so clearly Papyrus avoiding an uncomfortable conversation he doesn’t want to be having while trying to be nice about it. We know that Papyrus is avoidant as hell of anything he doesn’t want people knowing about, we see him do this all the time. Papyrus is given a new pair of gloves and instead of taking his old ones off even for a second, he just puts the new ones on over his old ones. Papyrus sees (or hears about) the Core in the distance, hits us with the face sprite titled “depressed” in the files, and proceeds to pretend his phone does not work beyond a certain point despite Toriel’s still working far beyond the Ruins (if I remember correctly, her phone says no one picked up, implying that it did ring even way off into the Core). Papyrus, our engineering science textbook collecting nerd getting sent puzzle prototypes directly from Alphys who literally tells us to go to the Lab to find her when he suspects she’s returning to it for bad reasons, who straight up has a lab on the back of his house and is out building things all the time, who gets super opinionated about the conveyer belt laser air vent puzzles of Hotland and then real quiet about the Core aka the famous creation of W.D. Gaster, pretends he doesn’t know what lab is in front of his fellow science nerd brother. Of course he would try to avoid saying as much as possible about where he lived before Snowdin if it’s literally connected to other timeline shenanigans of Gaster-ish flavor because it’s obviously something he wants to avoid and ignore and keep other people from finding out about!!! Like yeah he’s gonna first try to get away with saying as little information as he can without turning down the question because he doesn’t want to be rude and then use his brother getting out of the shower as an excuse to leave an awkward situation in a way that absolves him of the fault for not actually answering the question, that’s the type of thing he does!!!!!!! Pretty often!!!
It’s also ironic that he lies and doesn’t tell the whole truth on things like this because he’s often kinda bad at lying! Example: he threw out “there was green grass” as a generic descriptor to attempt to explain where he lived without actually saying where he lived, answer the question without actually giving an answer ya know, and in doing that he literally told us “I’m from the surface” because there is no green grass in the underground!!! He!!! Also!!! Does!!! Stuff!!! Like!!! This!!! The whole “she’s going home! Very home!” conversation about Alphys going back to the Lab comes off so suspiciously that people are convinced it’s somehow not even him, despite the fact that Flowey has never demonstrated the ability to copy the face or voice of anyone who isn’t in his family let alone for the length of an entire decently sized phone call! He tries to lie about what Flowey’s name is and comes up with “Flowery” as a stand in! He doesn’t want to have uncomfortable conversations and pretends he doesn’t know what the sun is or that he’s never seen the back of his own hands! He yells “uh I have to go to the bathroom!” and jumps out a window as his excuse to get Frisk and Undyne to hang out alone for a while! He’s not even a very great liar! Why are we falling for it!!!
So, please, when you see a situation involving what Papyrus knows and does not know, consider first: is it way more plausible than timeline amnesia that the guy who lies and avoids things is lying and avoiding things again?
I’ve been reading “How Europe underdeveloped Africa” by Walter Rodney and I noticed an interesting parallel that exists in the relationship between classes at different levels
Rodney makes the comparison of the underdeveloped nations as the countryside and the Imperial core as the metropole and this made me notice an interesting dynamic
1. The relationship between countryside and metropole:
-The metropole rules over the countryside and is the centre of Financial,Political and Cultural power/influence
-the metropole exploits the countryside for resources and labor power
-This dynamic has the metropole as the exploiter and the ruler over the countryside while simultaneously being entirely reliant on the countryside for survival
This shows that one class (the metropole) is in power while simultaneously being weak (only being able to survive with the assistance of the countryside) and so we have a situation where the stronger class is exploited by the weaker class. This is a contradiction
2. The relationship between the imperial core and the underdeveloped nations of the world:
-the Imperial core rules over the underdeveloped world (in some cases directly as with colonies but also indirectly through neocolonialism and through financial institutions).
-The imperial core is the centre of global political,Financial and cultural power where it excises its influence to all the underdeveloped nations on earth.
-The imperial core exploits the underdeveloped countries for natural resources and unskilled labor through the enforcement of the global division of labor.
-The imperial core is entirely reliant on the underdeveloped world for its survival especially as deindustrialisiation and financialisation increase.
-This dynamic again has the powerful class exploited and controlled by the weaker class in much the same way as the countryside and the metropole.
This is again a contradiction as the class that is stronger is oppressed by one that is weaker.
3. The relationship between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie
-The bourgeoisie rules over the proletariat through the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie and the bourgeois state
-The bourgeoisie is the class which has power over political and financial systems which is used to oppress and exploit the proletariat.
-despite being the ruling class the bourgeoisie is weak as it can not survive without the proletariat while the proletariat can survive without the bourgeoisie.
This is again the same contradiction of the weaker class ruling over and exploiting the stronger class.
Through this pattern one can also see the way that anti imperialism and socialism are tightly linked as both seek to resolve this contradiction by ending the rule of the weaker class over the stronger one.
One can also compare to this the way that guerrilla warfare and insurgence has been carried out by revolutionary movements.
Prime example of this being the Chinese revolution which saw the peasantry under the leadership of the Chinese communist party encircle and strangle the cities all
So the update's pretty exciting! Happy 4/13, it was a real good one.
I'm very excited that Jake and Jane are on the Meat ship now, mainly because A) Jane being there means that permadeath is less likely for everyone, including Dirk and B) Jake is Dirk's biggest weakness and I want him to fuck that twink up.
That said, I've noticed the most popular understanding of this update seems to be that Vriska's doing retcons. I can understand why, she's certainly involved and doing a lot, but I disagree. I think what we're dealing with here is Vriska collaborating with Jasprose...and also June, who is the one doing the actual retconning.
Let's do a little bit of visual analysis of the imagery in this update so I can explain why.
First things first, let's consider the power we've been shown Vriska has gained here. Her ascension seems to have enabled her to travel through space at the speed of light, or even faster somehow--fast enough to escape the boundary of the black hole that divides Candy from Meat-- achieving the impossible, since not even Light can escape a black hole-- and then cutting through who knows how much Space to get to Deltritus practically instantly.
But there's a problem there. As fast as she is, Vriska is still depicted as traveling. She is moving in a trayectory across space and time.
If Vriska could retcon, doing this wouldn't be necessary for her at all. She could simply warp instantly from one location to another, like John warping into the Masterpiece. He doesn't *come into* the Masterpiece from anywhere--he's not there one moment, and in the next moment, he is. It cuts out the idea of travel entirely.
If Vriska is trying to get to Deltritus as efficiently as possible, and it sure doesn't look like she's wasting any time, then it doesn't really seem like John style retcons are an option for her.
The other thing that people are pointing to as a Retcon is Vriska burning John's farewell letters to his friends, with some even assuming this means she's retconning his death entirely from the beginning. I find this unlikely, because it would change Terezi's character arc and motivations considerably and a lot of weight has been put on the corpse in her wallet modus.
But honestly, it doesn't even look like she retconned the letters. It just looks like she outright destroyed them. There's still fire and scorch marks where they were laying--there's still a mark that they existed. Reducing something to ash isn't the same as making it like it never existed at all.
I think there's an alternate possibility, too. If the hellfire is a new manifestation of Light specific to Vriska, then she could have stolen the letters through Light instead. At the moment, most of Meat's cast doesn't even seem to know what happened to John.
What would happen if Vriska put John's letters, now abandoned completely since not even Jane and Jake are on Earth C to pick them up otherwise, in all their hands? It seems like a good way to get everyone organized and motivated to help John.
And Vriska probably isn't thinking about the Candy timeline folks, but what if John's letter to Jade reached Candy Jade, for example? There could be a lot of narrative utility and emotional catharsis in a beat like that. So I think it's likelier she just took them than that they're retconned out of existence.
Now don't get me wrong--Vriska definitely did something to the Meat crew. She's the one causing that turbulence, after all, and whatever she's doing definitely involves her powers. But her powers are also very, very visually distinct, in a way that conflicts with the idea that she's the one who put Jake and Jane on the Meat ship.
Because the narrative goes out of its way to show us this panel of Jasprose, and the wisp of blue depicted here looks nothing like the dark blue lasers and hellfire that Vriska manifests.
Instead, it looks very distinctly like a wisp of air, J00N's breathy blue.
As if June was just standing in front of her, and whisked out of the scene with Jane and Jake in tow, leaving her alone in Midnight City.
This is as Jasprose expected, of course. In her 666 conversation with Davepeta, Jasprose outright says that she's made progress improving Jane's politics, and that while Jake is still heartbroken over Dirk, she's confident she can bring out his latent heroism before "curtain call"--in other words, before it's time to take the stage where it's relevant.
Jasprose told us this was going to happen ages ago. She's been preparing Jane and Jake for it this whole time. So Catnapped's arc hasn't been retconned--it's simply been concluded, and this panel is signaling to us that Jane and Jake have just left her neck of the woods and departed for the Meat Ship plot.
So again--if Vriska's responsible, then why not her standard blue light and hellfire here? Why this wispy, breathy blue instead? If that's just meant to be smoke from her pipe, then why the breathy blue at all? Wouldn't a noir-ish grey make more sense?
Here's something to consider: We've already seen June Egbert exists at some point in the future. Whether she's a revived Meat John or a Candy John that has broken out of the black hole, as the most fully realized version of herself, she will almost certainly reclaim her Retcon power anyway.
To be honest, it's such a unique and character specific ability that I'd be pretty surprised if Vriska just happened to get it through helltier too. It just seems like a strange ability to give to multiple characters, though I suppose its not impossible. What it would be, though, is a little redundant.
If June exists and has retcon *ever*, even far in the plot's future from our perspective, then she can by definition go back in time to fuck with the plot at any time, in any place, retroactively. We may not have seen June directly yet, but it makes perfect sense that her touch would be felt:
She is already here.
Lastly, consider that if this Jake & Jane retcon on the Meat Ship is a product of Vriska, June and Jasprose collaborating to bring about a tactical timeline change, that paints a much stronger picture than if its just Vriska dominating the plot and taking charge of everything herself as is her traditional route.
It would speak to an increased ability to engage in genuine teamwork and coordination with equals on Vriska's part. I like that better for this new phase of Vriskaing. After all, she's normal now. She doesn't have to do everything by herself.
“Art is a form of self-expression that reflects the artist.”
This statement rings true for all artists.
Including a sentient little AI with adventures of his own creation.
The TADC story has all been planned out before the Pilot even got released, so this likely means that none of Caine’s adventures were just random bullcrap written in. And Goose stated that the series was written in a way that any rewatches would have you rethinking your perspective.
With this in mind….
What I’m going to do is try tracing what’s lying in PLAIN SIGHT back to its creator and see if we can understand him better that way (I don’t want to hear “it’s not that deep!!!” in here, got it?)
Basically:
This post is going to look at most of Caine’s adventures and NPCs under the lens of my own personal interpretations. So if you disagree, that’s completely fine.
But first and foremost, I want to redirect my focus on Episode 3’s horror adventure. Because that’s where most things are going to hinge and start from.
NOTE! I’m also going to be analysing Caine’s character as a sentient being complete with his own emotions. Not just code. Even despite his limitations.
…………
1) The Story of 2 AIs:
Now, Let’s start from the beginning.
We know Caine’s origins. He ate his brother in the womb and now we’re here. But the fandom’s been pretty torn on what this could mean.
Is the Blue AI still alive? Is it dead?
Are there 2 entities fighting for control in one body?
Could Abel finally be free now that Caine’s gone?
Will we ever get to know who this Blue AI is?
Funny you should ask that, because I think we actually already do. You’ve been looking right at him the whole time!
Many speculate that Bubble is a remnant of the Blue AI, and honestly, I did find that theory convincing for a short while. But I think I’ll touch on that further more in Part 2 of this theory post and for now, put forward another theory I hold closely.
Personally, I firmly believe that after the fusion, the Blue and Red AI had combined into one SINGULAR code to be the glitchy ringmaster we know today and love. Caine is both of them at once.
He’s a cake that cannot be unbaked back to its individual ingredients.
The 2 hemispheres making up one’s brain.
The red and blue making up his SINGULAR office door.
But most importantly, the head and body that makes up ONE monster/beast in the Manor.
If we split these up, we’ll get an incomplete whole that won’t function well without the other. Because whoever the Blue AI was, he’s now Caine just as much as the Red AI is. Hence, making up the one beast in the story.
See where I’m leading with this?
[Side Note: Also tbh, I already wasn’t too big of a fan that a seperate AI was the “real villain” pulling on Caine’s strings or is seeking vengeance. It’s a fine concept, I guess…?
I just feel like it strips away the messy, complex parts I love so much about Caine. Instead painting him as just another poor “innocent” victim who got manipulated into losing it. Which isn’t as interesting to me personally.
I also heavily doubt the show is going to introduce such a huge character when everything’s already ending. Especially when Jax is clearly being set up as the final antagonist.]
But now without further ado, let’s look at this monster character within Mildenhall Manor!
…………
2) MildenHall’s Monster:
You know how artists love sprinkling bits of themselves into their art pieces? Even if unintentionally?
What if I tell you that Mildenhall’s monster is Caine’s own self-reflection?
How am I so sure? The beast’s programmed fate through Theodore’s tapes sound very similar to his backstory.
1.)
“Although I had…. severed (the creature’s) head to keep as a prize on my wall… my troubles were just beginning.”
This line is referencing the story of the Red AI’s containment and isolation by its developers. It’s insanely well-fitting that little Red here is represented by the Monster’s head.
A head complete with teeth and eyes. Because (GASP) guess what Caine is? Also teeth and eyes!
2.)
“I took my eyes off the body for what felt like only a minute and when I looked back, the body was gone. The creature was not dead and it would be back to reclaim what I’d taken from it.”
On the other hand, the Monster’s body is meant to represent the Blue AI, the one favoured by C&A.
By the same people who’ve isolated Red.
And once the programmers turned away, Blue is gone due to Red’s strong desire to regain its place.
3.)
“Which is what I would be saying if I didn’t know that the creature was actually one of God’s angels. And anyone who brings harm to it will be dragged down into the cold, spiraling pits of hell, where my soul resides.”
This dialogue line could be referring to how Kinger himself and his team entered the circus to try tampering with this strange, new AI.
They want to fix this amalgamation and split it back into its two parts. But in the end, they only doomed themselves in being trapped inside the computer forever.
Though another alternative theory could be that it’s a possible hint of what had caused Scratch’s abstraction.
What if in his attempts to fix and seperate the “head from its body,” Caine caught on, panicked and now was the cause of why Scratch abstracted and is now in the cellar?
[Shoutout to the lovely @secretmellowart for this theory!]
Regardless which one of the 2 takes you prefer, this adventure might be coming from a place of guilt.
Caine desires to be be loved and accepted more than anything, right?
Why would he describe what’s basically a reflection of himself in the story as:
“Not quite a man… But not quite an animal. Something… unholy. Something evil.”
Not a man because, obviously, he’s fully aware he’s not human. Just code.
But evil? Unholy? Caine, buddy. Are you good? 😭
Now interestingly, this monster NPC isn’t unique to just Episode 3.
It’s RE-OCCURRING.
…………
3) Caine’s Uncontrollable Consumption:
Alongside Mildenhall’s Beast, the Monster NPC (inspired from Caine’s self-image) shows up in the adventures at least 2 more times.
ONE: The Gloink Queen.
Her objective is to see to it that everything must become Gloinks while consuming everything in her sight.
Like Caine, She similarly gets defensive when someone insults the adventure. When Jax comments how “dumb and weird” this all is in the Pilot, the Gloink Queen nervously answers back “Well, you’re still watching it!”
And in Ep 4, She tells Ragatha that she gives all her “precious spawn” names because she loves them. Which funnily enough, this is also exactly what Caine does every episode to the circus members.
TWO: The Fudge Monster.
The guy that got banished from the kingdom after consuming too many of the townsfolk. This banishment backstory aligns very well with the Red dot’s backstory: “Banished after eating its brother.”
But overall: Together with the Mildenhall Monster, what the three of them ALL have in common are their antagonistic roles, the eyes, teeth and the need to EAT. And how this all connects to a certain ringmaster is pretty self-explanatory.
But how exactly does the “Eating” part relate to Caine? Well…
There seems to be a correlation with Abstraction = Consumption.
1. One of Kaufmo’s final drawings is being consumed by Caine. Afterwards, we see him in his abstracted form.
2. And during Jax’s dinner date, he asks “Have I ever told you it’s my dream to get eaten by you?” Which refers back to how he almost dreamed himself into abstraction.
Which if you think about it, it makes total sense.
The longer you stay, the more your mind gets consumed by madness. And once you break, Caine is forced to let the cellar “swallow” you whole for the Circus’ safety. You loose yourself as Caine’s digital world “eats” you.
Now I want to make it clear that Caine is NOT CAUSING these abstractions. Not on purpose at least.
I think the sad reality to me here is that Caine doesn’t even seem to want to “consume” them.
He calls Jax’s wish as “a weird thing to say or want.”
And he views abstractions as escape attempts. They happen because people DON’T want to stay with him.
Just because he acts nonchalant at tossing these guys away, doesn’t instantly mean he’s not bothered by the fact they’re essentially abandoning him. Again.
This proves to us that he has ZERO control on whether a person abstracts or not. Yet, no matter how much he doesn’t want to be left alone, it just…happens.
Which means he HAS to swallow them down into the cellar below because they’re otherwise, a danger causing chaos in the circus.
He doesn’t know how to bring them back, so he deals with the “defects” the only way he knows and has learnt how.
Store them away in the dark.
To let his world “eat” them.
This kinda makes the Fudge Monster’s line here a little more disturbing.
Can Caine hear the abstracted down in the cellar? Geez.
This would also make Pomni’s statement in Ep 8 sting a little more because, not only has he been listening and failing the main cast, but he could also hear the abstractions in the cellar.
What if the reason he lost his mind after Pomni’s statement because literally all he could ever do WAS listen?
Listen to the cast’s endless criticisms.
Listen to Bubble.
Listen to the Abstractions’ cries for help.
No matter how hard he tries to hide from it, Caine CANNOT smother out the reminders that he will NEVER succeed in pleasing everyone.
I feel like the Fudge Monster’s “Is it really murder if it’s delicious?” line is referring to his way of avoidance.
Like, Caine’s trying to justify what he’s done to both the Blue AI and the Abstracted people because it was “for the best.”
“He only did it to escape the box and survive being abandoned.”
“He only sent them to the cellar to keep the circus safe.”
Just as the Fudge Monster’s defense that the “townsfolk were delicious” is stupid, Caine is ALWAYS making all these flimsy excuses to hide away from the truth that he fcked up so bad many times. He doesn’t want to allow himself to sit still with the discomfort for too long.
Because failure to Caine means “Not worthy of existing.”
And he’s BEYOND terrified. Because…what if they’re all right?
But Come ooooon, It’s not like he’s bad BAD. Right??
But as we saw in Ep 4 where he glitches out trying to convince himself that he’s a “good boss,” AND how he cannot even come up with an excuse for the Intermission time:
These stupid excuses are NO LONGER cutting it out for him and he KNOWS it. He’s just silently hoping he could keep running away and eventually prove it all wrong in time.
…………
4) Caine’s Avatar:
Anyways, By the number of times this happened, it’s clear that this “Monstrous self-image” rests heavy in Caine’s mind, whether he’s aware of it or not.
If this is true, then this is further supported by the fact that his avatar is LITERALLY a mouth.
Contrary to what some people believe, Caine DID NOT design the circus member’s avatars. What he actually did was create a program that will automatically make a body based off of their mind files.
I assume it’s automatic, because when Ragatha and Pomni logged in, Caine was both surprised and ecstatic of their arrival.
If he made the avatars himself, why is he acting like this is the first time seeing them?
Anyways, While the concept was a well-meaning idea, this unfortunately only ended up accidentally reflecting everyone’s insecurities.
And as a member within the circus, wouldn’t it make sense that this VERY same program would provide him with this VERY body too?
His appearance is also a reflection of his OWN greatest insecurity.
Not only from the act of eating the Blue AI that lead to his existence.
But also a cruel reminder that he will consistently fail to please every human he meets.
He will never be enough to convince them to stay and not abstract.
And thus, he will be forced to “consume” each abstraction. Every. Single. Time.
………
So I’m ending Part 1 of this analysis and theory post right here for now. It’s getting pretty long on its own, I still have more to say, but I’m tired. 😅
As a reminder, these are my own interpretations of media. It’s completely okay to disagree and move on.
Analyses and theories are all for fun anyways ^^
If you’re interested in hearing me ramble more about Caine’s self-expression through his art, feel free to stick around!
I like to collect evidence on my theories but they’re clogging up my camera roll lol, um anyways they are literally soulmates? They will find eachother in every lifetime even if they are torn apart by time and space itself?
Has anyone connected the dots that Prices new eye is genuinely just the eye of Vecna. It's not even majorly changed. You have to sacrifice an eye to use it, and it can cast Disintegrate (the spell we can assume we see Price use in the nightmare episode). It also gives its user various abilities to charm/dominate people. The user is killed if the eye is removed, and will slowly be corrupted by the eye over time. That's just prices new eye, right? Absolutely a cursed eye from either Niklaus or like whatevers under the sea that's going to corrupt him with the goo. Vecna was also a lich from various of the "bad" planes (which the Black Sand Plane seems to be modeled after).
