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@tagreek
This!!
Imagine a reach lord hating valyrians so much he glazes a dornish woman and refers to dornishmen as the in-group. Besides the child abuse and the war mongering and the religious fanaticism and the misogyny and the classism and the hostages and the murder and the public indecency and the occupation and the toxic work environment and the theft Ormund is literally so progressive. woke king. Vote Green No Matter Wheen
HOTD is equivalent to a train wreck happening in real time you want to stop them but you canāt but you also canāt look away.
alicent hightower, blonde and dark haired versions
TB fans:- Rhaenyra would not have killed her half siblings if they had not taken the throne! They were her blood and she cared for them. Why do they not trust or like her
TB fans also:- Why would Rhaenyra try to bond with her half siblings? Alicent hated her (the hatred was mutual btw) and they were half siblings, not full siblings! She had no obligations
Like??? Pick a Lane Gremlins.
Fact:- Rhaenyra did not like them or care for them unlike what TB say. Or she would have tried to bond with her half brothers. Her hatred of Alicent and Otto should not have stopped her from trying IF as TB say she cared so much about them. But she did not. Thats the point. Yes, she had no obligations to bond with them BUT the TB larping that she cared for them IS wrong then.
Rhaenyra transferred her hatred of Alicent to the boys who were toddlers at the time, innocent and of her blood unlike Alicent. That she was not close to her half sibs IS one of the main reasons she would not have hesitated to kill or exile them for her own ends AND the reason why they did not like or trust her
F&B also says that Aegon, Aemond and Helaena were very young, basically babies when Rhaenyra was already bitching about them with Daemon. She and pdf uncle loved to mock Aegon & Aemond because like Rhaenyra, Daemon too had a bone to pick with those boys. Their birth pushed him down the succession line and this downfall was also the reason he tried to seduce Rhaenyra when he came back from Stepstones to try to marry her despite being already married. Them hating on Alicent would be okay but her kids were also their blood (right TB?) and they were babies, still Rhaenyra and Daemon were jealous of and threatened by them š¤¬
So why would Aegon, Aemond or any of them care about or trust Rhaneyra or Daemon later? If by any luck, she would not have ousted or killed them after grabbing the throne, Daemon SURELY would have. Nowhere does F&B say Alicent was filling her kids ears against Rhaenyra UNTIL Strong Bastards were bornāAlicent was not alienating her toddler kids from Rhaenyra, Rhaenyra was doing so herself, gladly and publicly for many years before. Her fans gaslight by saying she would not have tried to get rid of them via Daemon (as if she did not do the same with Laenor, Vaemond, tried with Nettles but failed) to protect her bastardsāI mean please. She was no saint. Do not put words in my mouth.
Rhaenyra never really made a genuine effort to build a relationship with her siblings. In the books, thereās no clear evidence that Alicent actively poisoned Aegon, Aemond, Helaena, or Daeron against her. We donāt actually see them being raised from childhood with some constant hatred of Rhaenyra. In fact, Alicent trying to marry Aegon and Rhaenyra actually complicates the idea that she was simply poisoning him against her from the beginning. If her goal was always to turn Aegon into Rhaenyraās enemy, why would she suggest a marriage that would "unite" their claims and keep the family together? even early on, Aegon still refers to Rhaenyra as his sister rather than only as his āhalf-sister.ā The more hostile language develops after the Dance begins.
I also think Rhaenyra was influenced by the people around her, including Daemon. But that doesnāt remove her own responsibility. She had opportunities to approach the situation differently. She could have tried to build alliances within her own family, present herself as a protective older sister, or pull Margaery Tyrell move by turning potential rivals into supporters instead of letting the divide grow.
Like I said even if Rhaenyra herself promised mercy, the reality is that her personal intentions might not have been enough. Her allies, especially people like Daemon and other supporters, could still view the Greens as a permanent threat that needed to be removed. The lords of Westeros would also have reasons to worry. As long as her brothers existed, with dragons there would always be potential alternative claims that could be used by future rebellions.
Like, are we seriously supposed to believe Rhaenyra would just leave Aegon and his brothers alive knowing they could become the center of future rebellions against her? Her brothers exist. As long as Aegon, Aemond, and Daeron live, they are permanent rallying points for rebellion. Killing them creates tyranny and martyrdom sparing them creates instability. There is no clean outcome. There is no third option. No middle ground and no āmerciful queen who keeps everyone alive and the realm is fine actually.ā Thatās delusional and not the kind GRRM writes.
And Rhaenyra would not be afforded even Elizabethās luxury of delay. Sheās not afraid to cross these lines when necessary she has Daemon decapitate Vaemond Velaryon her distant KIN during the Driftmark dispute and feeds his remains to Syrax. She also confronts Aemond sharply when he called her children as bastards, demonstrating that she will defend her claim and her family by any means necessary.
are you slow? you do know that fire & blood is written by the victors right? the book is quite literally team green biased.
Oh, I thought the Blacks won? Arenāt you always saying theyāre the victors bc their bloodline ended up on the throne? Pick a narrative pls.
The thing about why I cant take Ormund as this abusive figure in Daerons life seriously, is because we met Gwayne before we met Ormund. Gwayne has been in Old Town with Daeron this whole time. He has helped raise this boy enough to tell so many things about him with pride. If he had been privvy to Ormund being this evil, cartoonoshly evil anti Targaryen abuser, he wouldn't have given Alicent the impression that Daeron was better off being raised in Old Town. He is not the brother to sugar coat to make her feel better. He would have been honest if Ormund had been this toxic of a figure in Daerons life. But he didnt say any of that to Alicent.
Because Ormund was not this toxic abusive man until the writers sat down to outline season three.
Extremely messy concept for Rhaena and Nettles meeting⦠kinda wanna do a comic but effortā¦
free helaena š„
reminder of canon Daeron & Ormund's introduction and relationship in case yall are larpers
so the hightowers are religious fanatics but the incestous blood supremacists who believe they're gods destined to rule over everything are totally chill and progressive? lol. lmao even
Iām crying why is hotd trying to give the targ blood supremacy thing to the hightowers now. obviously all feudal lords believe in blood purity and thereās certainly racial othering going on with how westeros views the targaryens, but in what world would ormund call them āsavagesā or ābrutesā or claim that theyāre below other men? thatās how westeros others the northerners if anything, but the dehumanization of the targs stems from the same place that targaryen exceptionalism stems from - the idea of the targaryens being closer to gods than men aka not being fully human but something higher. thatās kind of a major aspect of their monopoly over dragons and their incestuous relationships and how they claimed the right to conquer westeros in the first place. but now hotd has given the hightowers the attitude of being āthe superior menāā¦man this show really hates those little green guys huh. whatever raymun fossoway did the anti targ rant better anyway.
HOTD showrunners were like what if we give Daemon Targaryenās groomerism and supremacy complex, Dalton Greyjoyās war crimes, Otto Hightowerās manipulation strategies, Tywin Lannisterās ruthless and perverted sense of justice and Ramsay Boltonās freak to one character and name him Ormund Hightower? genius, right! š
I think the biggest issue I have with many Team Black supporters is the inability to have any nuance to their views. Because yes, Rhaenyra was undoubtedly overlooked because of the fact that she was a woman. Yes, the show very much paints "Team Green bad, Team Black good". Yet the "feminist girlboss" agenda persists and the problem with this is that Team Black are, a lot of the time, overlooking any nuance to Rhaenyra's character in order to defend her (which the show is also guilty of, to be fair). The woman always has to be the victim (again, a problem we're getting with Alicent as well) which in reality is just denying her agency. By acting as though a woman is Good and Right simply because she is a woman is such base-level thinking. We know that Patriarchy Bad. But insisting upon making Rhaenyra a victim over and over again is so tiring when realistically, and more so in the book, Rhaenyra did bad things too!
"But men have bastards as well" is a poor argument when yes that's entirely true, but they aren't trying to put those bastards in the line of succession and pass them off as trueborn children (except for the whole Blackfyre Rebellion thing which again...proves the point that even a man trying to put his bastard on the throne is a Bad Thing). There are absolutely instances where Rhaenyra faces different treatment than she would if she was a man. It's not fair, it's not right. But there are also instances where Rhaenyra creates problems for herself, and by acting as though she didn't or that everyone is out to get poor Rhaenyra is again downplaying her own agency in those choices.
It's not just Rhaenyra, either. It's Alicent as well. Her character has been watered down into Rhaenyra's biggest fangirl, and she too is suddenly not responsible for her own choices. Yet still I fear there are people who are anti Team Green who cannot have a nuanced discussion about the portrayal of women to save their lives, so it becomes "you're not feminist if you support Team Green, yes it is that serious". Firstly, it's a TV show, it's NOT that serious. Secondly, the side people "choose" can absolutely be more complicated than that. But all quiet on the frontal lobe, I guess.
Rhaenyra. You donāt get it Rhaenyra. I saw it at harrenhal. A song of ice and fire. I saw a sixteen year old girl with a like twelve foot vertical leap and our magic dagger Rhaenyra not one of ours but it was sick as hell and very subversive and epic Rhaenyra you have to lock in
Rhaenyra. In the vision the freaky tree vision I had from this lady who was poisoning me. That one. There was a girl in a far away desert with dragons at her breast. Some kind of song of ice and fire. She lost one of her dragons in the gullet too. Anyways Rhaenyra what are the greyjoys up to I feel like itās really important to remember the location of the iron fleet
I can't with the double standards in this fandom when olenna tyrell weaponizes her gay relatives to terrorise a blonde woman and put her bloodline on the iron throne everyone calls her "queen" and "woke grandma" š but when I, otto hightower