A lot of times when people talk about atheist or agnostic Jews, it’s like “being Jewish isn’t just about being observant! you can be agnostic/atheist & Jewish bc Jewish identity is also about ethnicity/culture not just religion!” and that’s true! and great!
but I wish more people talked about pious agnosticism (not 100% the label I would choose for myself; I don’t know that I would either call myself pious or say “I don’t know if G-d is real” I just feel like answering the question as a yes or no question is missing the point of Hashem). like, what about observance—even belief—being defined with complete agnosticism (ha) to the question of ontological existence?
I love Hashem & observing Jewish Law & mulling over Jewish teachings, but I don’t love those things because of anything to do with certainty of a literal conscious divine entity anymore than I sleep or eat food or go to the bathroom or love people because I’m certain I’m literally real.
if I’m not real, I can’t tell the difference! so who cares? I want to be who I am, whatever that means.
and if G-d isn’t real, so what? to whatever extent “real” is a thing, the values & practices & whatever else is bound up in what we call Hashem do exist, and are beautiful and worth engaging in, even if Hashem as a literal conscious being doesn’t literally exist as a distinct divine entity. y’know?
Even if G_d isn't real or whatever, following these rules (both in spirit and in letter) means you are trying to do Good in this world. And isn't that enough?
and if the goodness of the things we do in the name of G-d are so contingent on G-d’s existence that they would no longer be good if G-d weren’t real, would those things even be “good” in the first place?
I don’t think so. if a thing that is “good” would be evil on its own merits without a deity to prop it up, then it’d just be evil.
if our aim is justice, and justice is that which waters life, and you do that which waters life, then even if the authority that tells you to do it collapsed, you wouldn’t have any reason to regret it; you still watered life.
no one is harmed by abstaining from certain meats or running by a certain schedule or weaving textiles a certain way; so if any of it makes you feel more connected to yourself and your culture, it’s still beautiful.
repair the world, and even if there’s no G-d, you still helped repair the world, didn’t you? isn’t that enough?
being kind is still being kind. love is still love. joy is still joy 🤷🏻♀️ isn’t that enough?
no idea who this woman is or what channel was broadcasting this, but…she’s doing her very best to try and justify this attack, it’s absurd watching her spin this.
Temple Israel is the largest reform congregation in the United States, and this is a display, on air, of not only incorrect commentary, but unhinged bigotry.
Temple Israel, the scene of an active shooter incident Thursday afternoon, is a major Reform synagogue on Walnut Lake Road in West Bloomfiel
On its website, Temple Israel says the congregation makes up 1% of all Reform Jews in North America.
yeah. we are so far beyond the point of these types of attacks even being condemned at all, the immediate response is to blame the synagogue, justify Jews being targeted, defend the assailant, or call it a “false flag.”
there’s a concerted effort to manufacture consent for antisemitic violence happening here. the NYT got in on it too.
Hey Do You Understand Why Synagogues Have Intense Security Measures Now. or will it take 87 more fucking synagogue shootings. screaming at the walls screaming at the walls
Also, Jews should not have to die for people to care about their safety. Jews should not have to die for people to believe what Jewish people have been telling everyone about the antisemitism they experience. Jews should not have to die for people to think antisemitism is bad enough to care about.
People experiencing micro-aggressions is bad. Workplace and academic discrimination is bad. Antisemitic bullying is bad. Jews having slurs yelled at them is bad. Everyone should be horrified by just that level of abuse directed at Jews just like they should be horrified by that level of abuse level at any identity group of people.
Jews shouldn’t have to either be at risk of physical violence or actually face it or lose their lives for people to think it’s extreme enough to say anything or try to stop the abuse.
Israel and Palestine, History, Politics, Confirmation Bias and the Hypocritical Racist Saviourism of the Western Left
--------
Confirmation bias
"im doing a paper on antisemitism and it so difficult to find sources that aren't pro-isreal. They're all going on about how saying that Israel shouldn't exist is antisemitic. no how is thinking something should not exist if genocide is a part of its creation antisemitic? The Israeli state itself is antisemitic and has continuously failed to support its population of Holocaust victims.
any help on finding decent sources would be much appreciated."
When all of your references are telling you that your starting external point of reference is Antisemitic, that is because it is... You can't unpack your biases and unlearn them by searching for references that confirm your biases. Learn that your assumptions are likely bigoted and you need to learn what you don't know instead of seeking validation of what you believe.
To specifically address "saying that Israel shouldn't exist is Antisemitic", Israel DOES exist and more than 40% of all Jews live there, and no matter your opinion of its founding or the conduct of its government.... unless you intend to conquer Israel by force, and believe me it's been tried, it will not cease to exist by political pressure. So the expression that Israel shouldn't exist is tacit war mongering. There is more to be said on the topic, but that will come later.
More below the cut, very long
But Israel is an "Ethno-State" and that's bad! Isn't it?
First, at least this canard recognises Jews as an ethnic group, but the accusation of Israel as an "Ethno-State", is a deeply uncomfortable canard levelled against a Parliamentary Democracy where the third largest national political party is an Arab Party and 10 Arabs currently hold office in the Knesset. Arabs hold office, serve as judges, they Serve in the IDF as General's and Major's and make up 21% of Citizenship.
Last week I was privileged to be at a Manchester ((UK) Zionist Council meeting where two IDF Officers
Where Do Israeli Jews Come From, aren't they western colonisers?
No Israeli citizen and certainly not the vast majority of Jews around the world would want Jews to be a stateless people again. Particularly not the Majority of Israelis who are refugees from the Genocides, Pogroms and Expulsions against the Jewish people across the Middle East and North Africa, their children and grandchildren.
Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-S
We are painfully aware that after the last century of genocides and expulsions in South West Asia Jews stand on the edge of extinction on the continent of our origin. My family had to flee the Libyan Pogroms and Partition in Pakistan under threat of forced conversion or death... Today there are no Jews in either country, you either fled or you died. Many Jewish communities and traditions that have endured for millennia would be extinct today if not for the safe haven provided by Israel.
Lyn Julius: The government has stood by and let jihadist gangs drive Jews out of Yemen. Now their community is on the brink of extinction
[The above article states that approximately 400 Yemenite Jews remain in Yemen, at time of writing only one remains as a Houthi prisoner.]
The Farhud (pogrom), an outbreak of mob violence against Baghdad Jewry in June 1941, was a turning point in the history of Jews in Iraq. Lea
Importantly Jews can't colonise our own indigenous homeland, and comments on the skin colour of light skinned Jews is colourist and Antisemitic.
What do you mean Jews are indigenous people?
Jewish civilisation has conservatively at least 3000 years of archeological history in the city of Jerusalem alone, a people can't colonise their own indigenous homeland. That DOESN'T mean the people who came after us have to leave at all... Palestinian culture has been developing in the region for at least 1400 years. The promise of a Jewish state was the promise of self determination of Jews as Indigenous people displaced from our home by the colonising Roman Empire in the First century, arriving in Europe as slaves to build great works like the Coliseum and monuments to our own dispossession like the Arch of Titus.
The iconic Roman structure stood as the largest and most complex permanent amphitheater in the ancient world.
After 2000 years confined to the ghetto, 2000 years of always waiting for the shoe to drop, we needed to come home.
The colonisation of the Jewish people and our homeland also isn't a one note affair. The Sassanians, and the Crusaders, the British Empire, The Ottoman Empire, The Mamluks, and pivotal to the current discussion The Arabs... Arab Colonisation of MENA/SWANA is uncontroversially the historical record... They are the majority population across MENA because of their centuries of privileged social and economic placement in society even among Muslims. Pan-Arabism is Arab Supremacism.
Morrocco speaks Arabic because of Arab Colonisation, Ctesiphon was renamed Baghdad by Arab Colonisers, the subjugation of pre-colonial religion and culture such as Jews, Zoroastrians, Shabaks, Assyrians, the continuing collusion between ME states to deny the Kurdish people a state.
Recognising Arabs as colonisers doesn't mean demanding they be expelled, nor does it make anti-arab violence acceptable... But it is necessary if you intend to understand the historic social power dynamics of MENA social issues.
If Jews are indigenous and Arabs are colonisers... What does that make Palestinians?
People, it makes them human people who are seeking a state of their own and should have one post haste. Most people agree on this, I hope we agree on this..
Didn't Israel kill lots of people to be established?
People often have a habit of using their intuition rather than research to learn about current and historical circumstances. This leads to the exaggeration or minimisation of events by those who don't understand.
This isn't to say that violence wasn't present in the founding of the State of Israel, because it was, but in all of the wars Israel has ever been involved in, the combined death toll has never even come close to one million let alone the millions, even the Nakba which was a human tragedy worthy of recognition forever had a Death toll of 15,000...
It is worth remembering that the Nakba took place against the backdrop of invasion by the Arab league (including Palestinian Arabs) of the newly declared State of Israel within these borders as defined by the United Nations...
On the day of the expiry of the British mandate for Palestine the forces of the Arab League (Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and the Palestinian Holy War Army) invaded, and the Israelis/IDF counter attacked... And somehow even without any allies were not only successful in defence but the victor. This was the second refusal to accept an Arab majority state, this time that rejection came as war.
history.state.gov 3.0 shell
But Palestinians still deserve a state!
Palestinians absolutely deserve a state, historical rejection of the peace option at one time or another by any party in a conflict is no reason not to establish peace now. This is something we can hopefully agree on, the endless cycle of violence and retribution is neither desirable nor sustainable... and to that end in 1994 the Palestinian National Authority was Established as a Part of the Oslo Accords, which is a multi stage state building project agreed between the Palestinian Liberation Organisation and the State of Israel, which immediately formalised the recognition internationally as an institution in principle of the Palestinian State as declared by The Palestinian Liberation Organisation in 1988.
The eventual state borders of the Palestinian State would be the Territories of the West Bank and Gaza which came under Israeli Administration during the 1967 6 Day War, and which the kingdom of Jordan and Egypt refused to accept return of due to the expense of security in the region.
Regions of Palestinian National Authority Civil and Military Administration were established in the West Bank during stage 1. (Areas the Palestinian National Authority were supposed to be expanded each decade assuming the continuing stability of the PA) During stage 2 in 2005 those areas were expanded and the Palestinian National Authority assumed Civil Administration over most of the remaining West Bank except for Israeli majority settlements. Also as Part of Stage 2 Israel forcibly repatriated all Israelis living in Gaza and passed Civil and Military Administration to the Palestinian National Authority.
Unfortunately 2 years later Hamas seceded Gaza in its entirety in a coup and suspended democracy to establish an Islamist Autocracy in opposition to the Fatah dominated Palestinian National Authority and all attempts at reintegration have failed stalling the Palestinian Nation Building project.
Throwing a wrench in the "is able to preserve stability and territorial integrity" thing.
Ok, that's interesting, but wasn't the country already Palestine before?
At no point in history until the establishment of the Palestinian National Authority has there been self government of Palestinians by Palestinians. Even the name "Filistin" was a colloquial one in the Ottoman period. Under Ottoman rule the area of Israel and Palestine was made up of many feudal estates with a non-palestinian aristocracy.
Once again, this doesn't mean that Palestinians shouldn't have a self governing state now, today. But Jews should also have self government because.... we are indigenous to the Region, and second we have seen ourselves be betrayed by our neighbours too many times to not hold our defence in our own hands. In Europe, Africa, and Asia we have seen the repeated attempts to destroy us completely.
If you deduct the population of Israel the combined Jewish population of all three continents is less than 2 million, because you killed us.
The territory people are referring to as historically Palestine right now is the British Mandate for Palestine, which included the area East of the Jordan River where the Kingdom of Jordan was established by British Partition.
What is being done to advance Palestinian National Liberation?
The Palestinian Liberation Organisation have made multiple attempts at political normalisation with Hamas, as have the Israeli government... In the hope of reuniting the Palestinian National Authority administered territories in the West Bank and Gaza. Unfortunately with both authorities, Hamas and their affiliates like Palestinian Islamic Jihad use talks as an opportunity to re-arm, regroup, and relocate personnel and equipment. The Palestinian Liberation Organisation were in the closing stages of political normalisation talks, and Israel were in the midst of a (permanent) ceasefire and disarmament discussions at the time of the Simchat Torah Pogrom (Oct 7)
---------
We are in the present day from here on.... Things get complicated and messy-er from here, say goodbye to neat sections.
The attack on October 7 was a betrayal of West Bank Palestinians as well, and attacks by Hamas affiliates like Palestinian Islamic Jihad in areas of the West Bank where Israel is treaty obligated to act as security guarantor has been spun by people in the west who don't understand the treaty arrangements as an invasion of Palestinian Territories.
Terror group said warned by various figures of influence that it will not survive the Israeli offensive, and should prevent further destruct
With low expectations for reconciliation between rival Palestinian factions, PA President Abbas claims he intends to hold elections in near
Over the years Hamas have been offered permanent peace options by Israel, Egypt and the Palestinian Liberation Organisation and rejected them all because it means disarmament and ceding power in Gaza to the Palestinian National Authority.
After October 7 (when Hamas broke a permanent ceasefire during peace talks, to kill more Jews than ever in a single day since the Shoah) Israel won't make a permanent ceasefire with an armed Hamas. They certainly won't make a permanent ceasefire while hostages remain in the hands of Hamas.
Then you have the Palestinian Liberation Organisation who want territorial reintegration and political normalisation for a lot of reasons, but a big one is to and uphold the territorial integrity of the Palestinian National Authority so they are returned to a strong position to negotiate new expansions to the Oslo Accords. We could have had Oslo stage 3 in 2015, and stage 4 next year.... But, Hamas.
Not to mention the PLO and the PA at least take their duty of care to the Palestinians under their administration seriously and aren't launching enormous batteries of unguided rockets during supposed peace times that often (between 10% and 20% fall short landing inside residential Gaza.
Israel says some 12,000 rockets have been fired from Gaza starting on Oct. 7. They have killed 15 people in Israel.
The Uninformed Imperialist Saviourism of the Western Left
In typical fashion Westerners have shown up late to a conflict that doesn't involve them, unprepared, and full of zeal. The only thing they are ready for is a fight, and fighting your neighbours thousands of miles away is not going to bring peace.... And is certainly not going to help anyone.
You're here for misery porn, tragedy porn, and to compete for the spotlight by saying increasingly outrageous things. To have the most heartbreaking news even if you have to make it up....
And you, Western Left, allow this myth making and escalation because you read the truth of things with your emotions... You don't fact check what "feels true".
You saw someone post a screenshot of the headline of a news article, with no link to the source material and they even cropped the publication header, taking/inferring credit on behalf of American protestors for the results of talks between Israel, Hamas, Qatar and Egypt, which were partly facilitated by France... Where Biden as the American head of state urged a swift bilateral agreement on the ceasefire deal.
In essence urging Qatar and Iran to strongly suggest Hamas leaders put pen to paper as Israeli representatives have already agreed to do.
Hamas is weighing a proposal, agreed by Israel at talks with mediators in Paris last week, for a ceasefire that would suspend fighting for 4
Biden expected a ceasefire by Monday precisely because Israel has already agreed to honour it. It certainly isn't the Western Protesters that made all these middle east players come together for talks.
Importantly your solidarity with Palestinians comes across as insincere, because you haven't given a shit at any time Palestinians really needed you before, and you abandoned the people you were marching for in Iran as soon as a shiny new cause came along.
You say things like this...
When the Leader of Hamas has a Wikipedia page and lives in a luxury Qatari apartment.
If you don't even know who the leader of Hamas is, how are any of you doing Palestinian activism in Gaza?
from @the-library-alcove) Realization I just had from this last interaction there.
So there's a pattern on the Right where they will attempt to target and delegitimize a perceived leader for left-wing, progressive, or scientific movements. You see this in attacks on Al Gore or AOC for environmentalism, or Bernie Sanders for socialism, or George Soros for any number of progressive movements, or, to go to an extreme but illustrative example, attacking Darwin as if that'll somehow disprove the theory of evolution. (And conversely, how Trump's legal troubles are seen as attacks on the MAGA movement)
Because that's how right-wing authoritarians work--the Leader not only is the emblem of the movement, they tell you what to think. And thus right-wing authoritarians cannot comprehend grassroots movements or scientific theories that are accepted on their own merits--to their minds, there must be a leader.
So why do I bring that up?
Because the belief shown by @r0semultiverse is the mirror opposite.
"Hamas is clearly a grassroots resistance movement growing out of popular sentiment, and doesn't have any leaders or formal command structure!"
They're projecting their own ideological framework onto another organization and assuming that it functions identically to their own.
------
Despite people literally lying... Horrible things have genuinely happened in this war, many children have died, it won't stop just because of outrage fuel, this is unfortunately a reality of urban warfare.... There are only two conditions that Israel cannot compromise on. For the war to end Hamas needs to return the hostages (and if they are dead their bodies) and disarm. Everything else can be negotiated.
To support Palestinians and Israelis who have lost loved ones to conflict and are seeking to build peace out of pain, please consider The Parents Circle.
Our hearts are broken We express our deepest and heartfelt condemnation of the ongoing violence in the region. It is a time of great sorrow
Where were you when the Palestinians of Syria needed you?
Unfortunately this isn't the first time this kind of total devastation has happened... However you didn't seem bothered about Palestinians back then, the old "when it's not (((The Jews))) there is no news".
In Syria the Palestinian majority city of Yarmouk, once considered The Capital of the Palestinian Diaspora had a population of 1.2million Palestinian residents though only about 137,000 were registered with UNWRA in the city at the start of the Syrian Civil War.
Daesh and the forces of Bashar al-Assad levelled the city, it was called "The Worst Place In The World" at the height of the Syrian civil war. There was nobody donning keffiyeh in Parliament or marching in their thousands for the Palestinians of Yarmouk. I am asking.... Where were you when Yarmouk was destroyed, and its people forced to flee or die?
I have had to report pictures here on Tumblr of Yarmouk Palestinian children who I remember from the 2010's who were murdered by the Assad regime's Sarrin Gas Attacks being passed off as casualties of the current Israel-Hamas war. Having to dig through old articles to find a source... Because of "activists" with no respect for the dignity of Palestinian children when they don't suitably serve the current narrative.
Where was your outrage then, because I don't remember seeing/hearing any of you... And I've been at the work of advocating for Palestinian Liberation and Statehood for over 10 years. I wonder how many of you have even met a Palestinian.
You Want To Help Palestinians As A Westerner? A step by step guide.
Identify the most immediate and actionable need. (At the time of writing in Gaza this is food and water)
Identify how that need can best be remedied and by whom.
Take action to fund non-state entities and contact state entities based on that information (call/email your representative and tell them that you want food and water sent to Gaza, donate to relevant charities...
For decades, Palestine has been facing a protracted and complex protection and humanitarian crisis. The crisis is tied to prolonged occupati
Since early October, families in Gaza, Israel, and Lebanon have been reeling from devastating conflict that has caused profound loss of life
As the situation evolves.... repeat. If you're competing to be the most correct, or have the most radical opinion instead of competing to provide the most food, the most temporary shelters, the most quality building materials, the most medical supplies, etc.... you're not helping anyone, this is true of every humanitarian cause.
As promised, a comprehensive list of places to donate to if you wanna help the people involved in the Israeli Palestinian conflict!
This is
Western Leftists, You Have Reinvented the White Man's Burden.
I’ve run across several goyim lately who were genuinely shocked to learn that 1) not only have they been fed a pack of lies about what Zionism is, 2) there’s more than one kind of Zionism.
So I thought I’d lay them out. I’m going to attempt to be as neutral as possible, so if you’re going “wow, that kind of Zionism is awful! Why isn’t Nina acting totally disgusted by it?”, it’s because this is an attempt to inform, not evangelize.
BASIC ZIONISM: all other forms of Zionism build off this one. Basic Zionism means you agree that the folklore, literature, calendar, and lifeways of Jews (not to mention a whole slew of archaeological evidence) meet the burden of proof that Jews are indigenous to the Levant, and that as an indigenous people we should have the right to self-determination in our indigenous homeland.
KAHANIST/EXPANSIONIST ZIONISM: this form of Zionism, pioneered by Meir Kahan, says modern-day Israel should encompass every piece of land that ancient Israel and Judea encompassed at any given time in antiquity, even if it was a temporary holding. (These were the ancient Jewish states.) This would entail all of modern-day Israel, the West Bank, most of Jordan, and tiny slices of Lebanon, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Syria. (Weirdly, although the Kahanists consider Gaza to be part of Israel, a chunk of land in roughly the same place was actually Philistia. It’s off by something like 50 miles, but after 3000 years I don’t feel like 50 miles is so much.) It also states that Jews are the only people who should be living there, and that expansion beyond these borders is a desirable goal. This form of Zionism explicitly allows for and sometimes even encourages violence. It is the closest thing on this list to the goyische definition of “Zionism” you’ve heard floating around Tumblr and college campuses.
TWO-STATE NO-RETURN ZIONISM: Two-state no-return Zionists recognize that the people who now call themselves Palestinians deserve the basic dignity and humanity due to all people, but consider a right of return to Israel for Palestinians dangerous. Two-state no-return means the West Bank and Gaza would become Palestine, and the land that’s currently Israel would remain Israel. Most two-state no-return Zionists draw their lines for these land parcels along the 1967 borders. If you’re wondering “why 1967? Wasn’t Israel founded in 1948?”, yes, and the day it was founded eight other countries invaded to try and take it over as an Arab-colonized ethnostate. This did not go well for those eight countries, but Egypt made off with Gaza and Jordan took the West Bank, so going back further than 1967 means "still no Palestine, it's Egypt and Jordan now."
TWO-STATE WITH RETURN ZIONISM: like the above, but with Palestinians having the option to seek citizenship in Israel on the basis of non-Arab Palestinians also being indigenous to the region.
TWO-STATE VARIATIONS: in the interest of full disclosure, this is where I fall—I think there should be a three-state confederation (think like the EU, but smaller). Why three states? Because historically we’ve seen that when a single country is split in pieces like Palestine is, it has a hard time defending itself and the single country will end up becoming two countries anyway. Iran would be a very real threat to a fledgling Palestine, so each part having a separate military would be in their favor. As for other variations, there are many; if someone says they support a two-state solution, they may or may not mean one of the two options above, because there are many ways, good and bad, to make two-state work. The only constant is that two-state means there’s both an Israel and a Palestine. And yes, if you support the idea that both should exist, you’re a Zionist.
ONE-STATE WITH RETURN ZIONISM: the West Bank and Gaza get absorbed into Israel. Palestinians are now considered Israeli citizens.
ONE-STATE NO-RETURN ZIONISM: the West Bank and Gaza get absorbed into Israel. The Palestinians are expelled in spite of non-Arab Palestinians also being indigenous to the region. I feel like this one is more of a pipe dream for a few bigots than it is any kind of serious position—there are seven million people living in Palestinian lands, and about two million Israelis who are from non-Jewish ethnic groups. Like, you’re not just gonna kick them all to the curb, it’s not going to work.
EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN ZIONISM: all the Jews need to go back to Israel and destroy Al-Aqsa mosque to rebuild the Temple, because fundamentalist doctrine teaches that when they do the Rapture will begin. 144,000 of them will realize the error of their ways and convert to Christianity on the spot, and the rest will be thrown into hell. Fundamentalists neither know nor care where Palestinians come into this. For that matter, they don’t even really care about the Jews, except as a convenient theological prop.
I’m pretty sure I’ve covered all the basic forms of modern* Zionism here, although certainly there are further variations. If you’ve been confused how over 80% of Jews could support Zionism: now you know. For the vast majority of us, it’s not about making Palestinians suffer—it’s about trying to live peacefully in a land where we have existed for 3500 years, and where, before we were Jews, we were Canaanites. Our roots there predate written language. We just want to keep them there.
*historically, Zionism was built around what kind of country Israel should be, not what its borders should be.
May I offer corrections? Or perhaps, a different perspective?
The majority of Israelis don't wake up thinking to themselves "hurr durr today I will enact my full Zionism".
What dictates what actually goes on is less of a deep Zionist ideology and rather... reality.
I know that people, especially outside I/P don't like hearing this, but all this discourse about one state, confederacy, 3 states, etc. is simply non existent on the street level and is only supported by the fringe in the academia. These solutions are not feasible and thus have never become mainstream. As one of my friends has said, one who constantly criticizes the occupation and sends me Leibowitz' writings (a deceased left wing philosophical thinker): "No".
What we, Israelis, consider as Zionism is basically a national home for the Jewish people. Since we know Palestinians (and Arabs) are the majority in the region we understand that nothing good will happen with the RoR. It'll end in Balkanization for sure, no ifs nor buts. Thus, Israelis also consider Zionism with Israel being a major Jewish state, aka, no RoR.
While there are several political spectra of different political issues, when it comes to the conflict, Israelis are split based on the following 2 issues:
1. Reaching a treaty with the Palestinians, such that Palestine will be an independent state alongside Israel.
2. Security.
While the majority of Israelis do not wish to occupy Palestinians for the sake of occupying them, nor do they care about the settlements in the West Bank or expanding Israel's borders, they do care about security.
Now this is where the problem lies. Different people hold different views about what brings security. Some Likud voters for example, do not trust an independent Palestinian sate alongside Israel, they believe it'll be a launchpad for missiles and a terror hub and they also view a Palestinian state today as a price for terror. More Leftist Israelis see the importance of treaties.
Israeli right wing is right that the root cause of the conflict is the inability of Palestinians accepting the existence of Israel, or rather, accepting that Israeli Jews are indigenous to their homeland. This notion was THE CAUSE for the 1948 & 1967 wars and the occupation and not the other way around. Something that people abroad constantly miss. I am not saying that Israel is infallible nor that the occupation (of 1967) has not intensified the conflict, but rather that the root cause of the conflict is not that.
In the 90s there was a prominent group of people in Israel that thought that a peace treaty will solve things, but this process didn't bring peace but rather terror. So Israelis have learned that peace doesn't bring peace, it brings terror. The 2nd Intifada (aka the exploding buses period during a peace process), has basically killed the peace camp in Israel.
People who identify as Leftists in Israel are deemed as naive and these days as traitors.
So whenever people bring up: there is this kind of Zionism and that kind of Zionism, it's non-relevant. The reality is dictated by what people support based on what they think will bring more security. Very pragmatic, nothing too deep about border expansions or ethnocracy.
I also see many people mentioning "Liberal Zionism", but what does it mean? Does it mean Yesh Atid voters? Meretz voters? There is a spectrum and Israel is most definitely NOT a monolith. Just because the US is a two-party system, doesn't mean Israel is the same. This reduction into "Liberal Zionism" and "Conservative Zionism" is wrong, simplistic, and very much American.
Look for example at what Israeli voters think about whether Palestinians want to conquer and kills us (taken from here):
The parties from left to right are as follows: Meretz, Labor (Ha'Avoda), Yesh Atid, National Unity, Yisrael Beitenu, Likud, Shas, United Torah Judaism, Religious Zionist party + Otzma Yehudit.
The blue bar indicates the percentage of voters believing Palestinians do not want a state at the 1967 borders, but rather conquer Israel.
Orange bar: Palestinians will also want to kill Jews.
Unsurprisingly the bars are also ordered from the most left wing Zionist party (Meretz) to the most right wing Zionist party (RZP + Otzma Yehudit).
The only non Zionist parties are Shas (to some extent) and United Torah Judaism parties which are representative of the Ultra Orthodox community in Israel, aka, those religious Jews that wear black and white garments. Again, these are non-Zionist parties, but their voters are right wingers, albeit they do not serve in the military.
Confusing? Perhaps I'll explain that in a future post.
There are also 3 other parties mostly representing the Arab/Palestinian society in Israel, only a fraction of Israeli Jews vote for them, usually self-identified non-Zionists and what people abroad think non-Zionism is (they, btw, usually support any solution as long as it's democratic, providing both civic and national rights to the Palestinians AND Israelis).
As one may notice, the more right wing a voter is the more they believe that Palestinians want to conquer and kill us. So whenever I see people abroad insisting that if there won't be occupation there won't be terror attacks, Israeli Jews simply do not believe that.
Want to end the occupation/apartheid/genocide? Make Israelis believe they'll get security as a result of a treaty (I can already see the eyes of international anti-Zionists rolling their eyes, laughing in the face of vicious people who do not deserve that).
These days, Meretz and Labor have merged into one party. Its leader, Yair Golan has realized that promising Israelis peace is useless (even if he supports it), he instead labels that as "creating treaties that benefit Israelis by separating from the Palestinians" (aka the 2SS).
The legendary leaders of Meretz Yossi Sarid and Shulamit Aloni are rolling in their graves at his statements, but this is the most mainstream Israeli Jews can accept these days. Peace is too naive, pragmatism is the new deal.
Now how would you label that? Liberal Zionism? Pragmatic Zionism?
Now here is where RZP + Otzma Yehudit play a role.
I have previously discussed that since the mainstream right wing Israeli camp is so mortified by terror and thus kept silencing and intimidating any left wing position (including one that is very pragmatic and non-dovish), it has let RZP settlers take control in shaping Israeli politics. Israelis think that there is a status quo in the WB, but oh boy, the settlers sure do whatever they want there and most Israelis are unaware of that. Non-pragmatism was not the mainstream view in Israel prior 2009, but then came Bibi and through his propaganda has managed to convince Israelis that nothing can be done. Any opposition was silenced.
We could have gone a different path had Tzipi Livni managed to create a coalition back in 2009 and not Bibi, but alas, we cannot change the course of history.
RZP + Otzma Yehudit's point of views are what some people think Zionism is, because in practice, their views is what's de-facto happening.
RZP and Otzma Yehudit ARE different though.
It's a nuance people abroad might not care about, but it does exist.
Otzma Yehudit is surprisingly less ideologically driven. It is mostly associated with Kahanism and it's basically pure racism. The focus is less "Jewish supremacy", but rather: "All Palestinians are terrorists, and since they all want to kill us or kick us out, we'll kick them out or show them a lesson so they'll give up and finally stop attacking us. One has to act the way people act in the Middle East. We are no Western nation, we'll speak the humus way" (I kid you not, they use humus as a metaphor for the violent nature of Arabs in the Middle East). It's a populist agenda, and thus very dangerous as it draws mostly young people. Sadly, the Likud party is becoming more and more like that this days as well.
People who'd vote for Otzma Yehudit won't vote for it because they wish to expand Israel's borders or build settlements, but rather, they want maximum security where they have zero faith in Palestinians and believe only an endless occupation will bring security. On one hand, they keep saying we should not act based on international criticism, but otoh, they keep accusing the world with antisemitism (the world is MOST DEFINITELY antisemitic, especially Gen Z American Leftists, but a lot of the criticism is due).
The RZP is much more driven ideologically wise. Some identify as Zionists, while the most extreme ones don't. Mainstream Israelis actually consider them as anti-Zionists because they bring our nation down.
RZP people DO support annexation and expansions for the sake of expansions. They have similar views to what I have discussed above, but there is another element here nobody abroad discusses: Some believe that the only way for the Messiah to come is if Greater Israel is whole. The land of Israel should be one.
Funnily enough, ex-RZ settlers who become Left Wingers usually support a binational state or a confederacy because they still want one state, but a democratic one. They don't want for the settlements in the WB to be dismantled. For them, the Disengagement from Gaza Strip in 2005 was a traumatic experience, one that has caused them to infiltrate every position that has political influence in Israel since then.
The idea that the Messiah will come if we'll get Greater Israel is extreme, but THIS is what drives the leaders of the RZP. The founder of this ideology is NOT Meir Kahane, but rather HaRav Kook. In that sense, this is what makes people like Smotrich, Orit Strock and Daniella Weiss even more dangerous. To them, the massacre of Israelis on October 7th is a miracle, it's a chance to conquer once again Gaza Strip. They SAID they are OK with sacrifices, as long as they reach their goal.
Do you want to know how crazy these specific people I have mentioned are?
Look at how Daniella Weiss is standing in the middle of a road during a red alert of a missile attack:
These people are extreme and are not representative of mainstream Israelis. The problem is that many of them are getting promoted in the military and it most definitely has shaped the broken morality of the IDF.
Aren't there dovish people in Israel who identify as Zionist in Israel? Of course not, look at the following recent peace conference held in Israel. I have attended it, and I am most definitely a Zionist:
Whenever people abroad bring up Zionism, and paint Zionists as a monolith, I know that for sure they have zero knowledge of our society. Yes, I understand that they get the Palestinian POV of Zionism, but self-identifying Zionists come in all shapes and ideologies. There is nothing INHERENT to Zionism, it's just a national movement of Jews. It doesn't mean that the Zionist movement has done no harm nor that it hasn't brought misery to the Palestinians.
But there is nothing truly inherent about it besides wanting a national home for Jews (not even necessarily in their homeland!). There reasons for needing a national home were perfectly logical and I absolutely support Jewish self-determination.
PS - Eventually the solution will be the two state solution. I am sorry to disappoint confederacy supporters or one binational staters. It won't happen. I am very much sorry.
In Israel, those that support the latter two solutions don't self-identify as Zionists, but usually American Jews do. No Israeli Jew, as Leftist as they may be, supports one Palestinian State, nor do they support Hamas. None.
Even the most extreme radical Leftists in Israel I know of consider Hamas as a fundamentalist terror organization.
So what is Zionism? It's all of the above.
I think this is important, as well, in that I’m an American Jew and you’re an Israeli. What I’m talking about is creating a basic vocabulary, while you’re talking more about the actual situation on the ground. And in this, I think our goals are actually slightly different: I just want people to stop calling me “Zionist” as a slur and to understand there is a whole world of stuff that might be called Zionism, while I think your goal is more to talk about actual immediate solutions.
Understanding both those things is important if there’s to be any hope of peace in our lifetimes.
Everyone please reblog the living daylights out of this, a lot of people need to know about it because a) the Palestinian solidarity movement will have a much greater chance of getting shit done if they know who they should be targeting and b) to hell with letting the HARD MEN making HARD DECISIONS lobby get away with claiming they speak for all Zionists, let alone all Israelis.
@postapocalypticcottagecore maybe, possibly, just MAYBE, you could spare a second for “and maybe we should stop being horrible to Jews for something they’re not even doing.”
Nearly 800 Jews fleeing Hitler climbed aboard a rusting ship called the Struma.
It was a livestock vessel built in 1867. The engines barely ran. Overcrowded and breaking down.
But for Jews escaping the Holocaust, even a dying ship meant a chance to live.
They were trying to reach the Jewish homeland.
Britain refused them entry.
So they were trapped for weeks in Istanbul harbor.
Hundreds of men, women, and children packed shoulder to shoulder on a vessel meant for animals. Little food. Failing sanitation. Nowhere to go back to.
They begged to be allowed into the Jewish homeland.
Britain said no.
Turkey refused asylum.
Turkey towed the barely functioning ship out into the Black Sea and cut it loose.
Nearly 800 Holocaust survivors left drifting in open water.
No destination.
No escort.
No protection.
Nothing.
Then on February 23, 1942, a Soviet submarine mistook the helpless vessel for an enemy ship and fired a torpedo.
The blast tore the ship open.
The Struma went down.
Nearly 800 Jewish refugees disappeared into the Black Sea.
One survivor.
Remember the Struma.
Never forget what “no Jewish state” actually looked like.
One of my professors told us that as a teacher, you WILL cause harm at some point in your career. You will say something hurtful to a student or grade unfairly or make a harmful assumption. You learn about these things and try to avoid them, but if you teach long enough you will do something that’s harmful to a student. It’s a numbers game. It’s inevitable.
And that’s why it’s important that you learn how to react in a healthy and productive way! The example she gave was from her own teaching — she had an assignment where students made a presentation with photos that showed their relationship with math over their life (I studied math education). A trans student reached out and told her that they were uncomfortable using pretransition photos. In response, she changed the assignment! By the time I was in her class, it was “make a presentation with photos and/or memes” — a small change but definitely more inclusive!
I think this illustrates why it’s important to say something when you experience microaggressions. I, a trans person taking this class, had a more positive experience because a different trans person spoke up a couple years before.
But also, I think that harm is inevitable outside of teaching too. I think that if you have friends or family or interact with people regularly, you WILL hurt someone eventually. And you have to be comfortable with that possibility in order to respond in a healthy way.
I saw this explained once, with regards to parenting, as "Rupture is inevitable, repair is not”.
You are human and therefore you will fuck up. It's just gonna happen. But if you can also be a in person willing to learn, and you're around people who are willing to be honest with you, you can take a note. You can learn better. You can adjust, repair, and change.
[then explains you are totally, 100% Jewish even if you don’t believe in Gd.]
the Jewish “religion’s” definition of what a Jew is, is that it’s a people. there simply is no such thing as a Jewish religion, it’s a people, and it has always been a people. and whatever the heck its definition is, it’s older than the word “nation,” it’s older than the word “religion,” which come into use in early Christianity, using Latin words.
all of this discourse, is just a discourse of people who think they get to sit in judgment of whether another people lives or dies, or whether its identity is real or not real.
the very idea is utterly bigoted, like unbelievably, like ridiculously. and we should never allow for it, and never accept it. and if they insist on doing it, we walk the hell away, and f**k ‘em.
The IOC disqualifies a Ukrainian athlete for putting pictures of his colleagues killed in war on his helmet while selling literal Nazi propaganda merch
#and ioc is doubling down on it saying that it was a part of history#yeah we know#and yet who needs a freaking tshirt about it?????#NO ONE via @bringingclawstoagunfight
Literally what the fuck?! It's one thing to acknowledge and remember bad parts of history to try to avoid making the same mistakes and to confront and make amends for and comemorate harms caused. It's quite another to celebrate it.
Imagine if Germany started selling Hitler t-shirts and used the excuse "well it's part of our history."
If they had actually chosen to commemorate it, a photo of Jesse Owens accepting his 4 gold medals in between the Nazi Salute would have been a better place to start--but the IOC & the Olympics are in NO WAY able to say that they consistently stand on the right side of history. Or that they consistently make good choices.
The Munich Olympics, anyone? The furor in Paris a few years ago?
Some people will just regurgitate bullshit with zero critical thinking.
If someone tells you something incredibly weird or outlandish, you need to RESEARCH it.
No, DNA tests aren't illegal in Israel. Over the counter paternity tests and ancestry tests aren't available, because DNA tests have to be done in Israeli labs and they're highly regulated. That regulation is a good thing, because it prevents bullshit like this. It's literally a security thing.
Israeli researchers run genetic tests and are actually doing cutting edge research on inherited genetic disorders and stem cell therapy. You can find a ton of info about Israeli genetic research online if you just look.
Stop believing everything some weirdo tells you online. You need to use your brain.
And it's always "DNA tests are illegal in Israel so that people won't find out [thing that there have been multiple peer reviewed studies about, and they've concluded the opposite of what OP is claiming.] I even have proof! [Cites single study that has been repeatedly debunked by actual geneticists.]"
Given that it is strongly suggested if not mandated in most modern Jewish communities to do genetic testing before marriage to encourage careful planning in reproduction, the idea that genetic tests are illegal in Israel are laughable.
Usually, it is a screen for recessive genetic disorders. Before someone starts screaming about eugenics, Ashkenazic Jews especially are prone to recessive genetic disorders like Prader Willi's syndrome or Tay-Sachs (2 examples) due to the social (by the Europeans) enforcement of inbreeding within communities. The genetic pool became small.
It's also why there are so many Jewish redheads.
It was not until the last seventy years that interfaith marriage was socially allowable.
A caveat to that; Jewish women were also the victims of rape. The origin of the Corpse Bride stories retell that brides were often stolen, raped, & killed. We do not have a true measure of how many women were raped & survived. Children possibly resulting from that situation would not be told of the possibility, & their existence definitely would have been kept quiet for reasons from their mothers possibly being mistreated again to the children being stolen from them for antisemitic reasons.
People walk at the site of Israeli strikes on Nasser hospital in Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip in …
The international humanitarian group Doctors Without Borders has publicly acknowledged that armed individuals — many of them masked — were present inside the large compound of Nasser Hospital in southern Gaza, citing intimidation of patients, arbitrary arrests, and suspected weapons movement as reasons for halting some of its work there.
The admission, buried in a rarely referenced FAQ page on the group’s website published last month, lends factual support to claims long asserted by Israeli authorities about the use of medical facilities by Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorists during the ongoing conflict in Gaza.
Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF), which is French for Doctors Without Borders, said it has suspended all “non-critical medical operations” at Nasser Hospital as of Jan. 20, 2026, citing “concerns regarding the management of the structure, the safeguarding of its neutrality, and security breaches.”
MSF’s admission was first reported by independent analyst Salo Aizenberg.
In describing those “security breaches,” MSF stated that patients and its own personnel observed “armed men, some masked, in different areas of the large hospital compound … not in areas where MSF has activities.” It added that since the most recent ceasefire in Gaza, teams have reported a “pattern of unacceptable acts,” including the presence of armed men, intimidation, arbitrary arrests of patients, and “a recent situation of suspicion of movement of weapons.” The group said such conditions posed “serious security threats to our teams and patients.”
The hospital in Khan Younis — one of Gaza’s largest and, until recently, few functioning referral centers in the densely populated territory — has been a flashpoint in the Israel-Hamas war since early 2024. After intense battles and an Israeli military operation that searched for hostages inside the complex, the hospital was rendered non-functional and later reopened.
For months, the Israeli government and military have claimed that Hamas and other armed groups used hospitals — including Nasser — as shelter and operational bases, allegations that Palestinian authorities and many humanitarian organizations have rejected. In February 2024, Israel Defense Forces (IDF) Spokesman Daniel Hagari said the military had “credible intelligence” that Hamas held Israeli hostages at Nasser Hospital at one point and that there may have been bodies of hostages currently hidden there.
The Algemeiner has previously documented claims acknowledged by the Palestinian Authority that Hamas summoned Gazans to the Nasser compound for interrogations and that militants threatened hospital staff.
Terrorists from both Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, an allied group in Gaza, have confessed that they took over hospitals across the enclave, using the medical facilities to hide military activities, launch attacks, and hold hostages kidnapped during their Oct. 7, 2023, invasion of and massacre across southern Israel.
In the FAQ disclosure, MSF did not explicitly identify the armed men or link them to specific groups. But by reporting the presence of masked fighters, intimidation of civilians, and suspicion of weapons movement within the hospital compound, MSF’s account aligns with Israeli officials’ long-standing narrative that medical facilities have not been strictly neutral zones.
MSF said it formally expressed concern to “relevant authorities” and stressed that hospitals “must remain neutral, civilian spaces, free from military presence or activity” to ensure the safe delivery of care.
The new disclosure comes amid broader tensions between MSF and the Israeli government over registration and operations in Gaza, including Israel’s decision to bar dozens of aid groups, including MSF, from registering to operate in the territory after March 2026.
