Why bullying straight women into political celibacy is sexually coercive.
I came across this post which is funny.
"No one is forcing gay men or lesbians to date trans people if they don’t want to’
Social coercion and shame is a type of force. It’s shaming gay people for their sexuality, telling them that they are wrong and broken, and telling them that the only way they can be ’right’ or ’an ally’ is to date trans people."
Just because you aren't putting a gun to a straight women neck doesn't make your rhetoric about how she should or ought to not have sex with men less coercive and unsettling.
I think women can and should (as adults they are) handle criticism and bluntness. Now i don't see radfems calling straight women bigots or wishing them rape and death like tras do with homosexuals.
How much does one have to love dick to be this triggered with feminists saying women are safer without men and gain almost nothing with sex with men? To the point of comparing those feminists with tras homophobic and rapey rhetoric?
Women should grow up and accept criticism. They don't. Most of them are handmaidens who don't take responsibility for engaging in an unhealthy lifestyle, putting themselves at risk and setting feminism back a 100 years. Men are more important to them
Agree with your take on political lesbianism! For me the “problematic” (for lack of a better word) nature of it has been mostly terminological. Encouraging female separatism is definitely endorsed in radblr, it's the calling yourself a lesbian part gyns take offence with. But as you said, critical thinking is a must and we can view it as a product of a different era. The terminology may be outdated but much of the feminist theory it involves is still relevant and valuable
thank you! I myself have political critiques of political lesbianism/lesbian separatism but imo it’s really disingenuous to caricature the OG poli lez feminists as “straight women who aren’t even ATTRACTED to women using lesbians as their personal sex toys!!” or “bisexuals making it seem like lesbians are sexually available to men!!” (as if men care at all lol)
it seems like their arguments were more along the lines of “most women are latently bisexual and every woman has the potential to have fulfilling sexual/romantic relationships with women if she unlearns patriarchal conditioning.” do we have to agree with that? ofc not. but it is definitely a very different beast. and frankly, I think it’s pretty self-defeating to write off the feminist contributions of women who chose to forego men and prioritize their relationships with women because we don’t like that they had a more expansive definition of one word than many of us do today
I'm not myself a political lesbian, but one of my best friends is and she says everybody deals with compulsory heterosexuality, so every women has the potention to being a lesbian. And loving women is not only about sex (tho for me is a important part). She has also told me is wrong to think people r born gay cus 1. kids dont have sexuality 2. its the same idea behind "women brain and a men brain". I honestly dont have arguments again some of these claims..
first of all, no, there isn’t a potential for all women to have disinterest in men & interest in women. i knew because of how disgusting i found their primary sex characteristics and how their secondary sex characteristics were unappealing. also my disgust at the idea of heterosexual sex.
i can’t change that.
for women who think the same about vulvae and the female body, i’d say she can’t ‘make’ herself be interested in women same way i can’t ‘make’ myself be interested in men.
even if kids don’t have a sexuality, it can be ingrained and express itself later. kids don’t have secondary sex characteristics either, but that doesn’t mean secondary sex characteristics don’t exist. although sexuality is in the mind rather than in the body, its true existence can simply be proven by human behavior: there are people who will only feel desire towards the opposite sex and act upon that, there are people who feel desire towards both sexes, and people who feel desire towards the same sex.
monosexuals are incapable of ‘pretending’ to be into the sex they’re not into, as is expressed by them.
yes, maybe there are actually more bisexuals and a part of those who think of themselves as ‘hets’ have been influenced by heteronormative society. but she doesn’t seem to be one of those considering she doesn’t desire sex with women. she seems like a regular het.
which proves my point, no? if she could make herself a lesbian, wouldn’t she be able to willingly have sex with women?
second of all, “loving women is not only about sex” makes her seem like a heterosexual lesbophobe. her wanting to be friends with women and not date men doesn’t make her a lesbian. it makes her a hetcel, which is also completely fine.
third of all, why the fuck would sexuality be the same idea as ‘woman brain’ and ‘man brain’, what?
anon, i say you have to unfriend this person. especially if you’re a lesbian yourself. horrible influence.
Every women has the potential to be a lesbian. Every man has the potential to be gay. The disgust toward gay people and activities originated as a response to heterosexist socialization and upbringing. And no, children don't have a sexuality
Why bullying straight women into political celibacy is sexually coercive.
I came across this post which is funny.
"No one is forcing gay men or lesbians to date trans people if they don’t want to’
Social coercion and shame is a type of force. It’s shaming gay people for their sexuality, telling them that they are wrong and broken, and telling them that the only way they can be ’right’ or ’an ally’ is to date trans people."
Just because you aren't putting a gun to a straight women neck doesn't make your rhetoric about how she should or ought to not have sex with men less coercive and unsettling.
Oh, no! A "straight" identifying person is triggered! I'm thoroughly unmoved by your fake plight!
Society bullies everyone into a lifetime of promiscuity and corruption. Men are told to be with women and women are told to be with men. The "straight" lifestyle is sexual coercion. Everytime a woman "dates" or "fucks" a man, she's complying with sexual coercion
"Straight" identifying men and women tell gay men and women what to do with themselves. All. The. Time. Expect to be told what to do with yourselves. Here, "sexual coercion" and "shame" are okay. They give you a taste of your own medicine
You want to be more triggered?
"Straight" identifying women are hurting women as a class by "dating" and "fucking" men. "Dating" and "fucking" aren't rights. We aren't liberal feminists. We should know that a choice comes with a consequence. The consequence of women "dating" or "fucking" men is misogyny. It's misogynistic for a woman to "date" and "fuck" men
if political lesbians and their supporters are right about actually-bisexual women “practicing lesbianism” and thereby being “materially” lesbian….
….then the materialist feminists are right about trans women: if they “practice” a feminine social role and can be mistaken as female by the oppressor class (men) then they are women.
No, because "transgenderism" isn't materialism. It's a religious, spiritual belief in "gender identity" that says feelings are more important than the material world. A materialist would disagree. The material world is more important than feelings. A man performing femininity would be a man, no matter how he's perceived by other people. Womanhood and manhood exist independent of opinions. Sexuality is psychological. It doesn't exist independent of opinions. The two can't be compared
این گفته زنی است که در کشورش در درجه دوم و سوم اهمیت قرار دارد و جان او نصف جان یک مرد است. به غیر از حاکمان
هیچکس نمی داند بعد از تولد قرعه زندگی تا کجا به نفع یک کودک است. پس از بررسی، روزانه بیش از ۱۰ کودک در کشورها ربوده می شوند. بدست قاچاقچیان فروخته شده یا اعضای بدنشان، حتی چشمان و انگشتانشان، میلیاردها دلار به منظور فروش و کسب سود قاچاق می شوند
هر کودکی در این ریسک قرار دارد. آیا با اطمینان می توانید بگویید تا آخر عمر عصایشان خواهید بود؟ در ۸۰ سالگی هم مراقبشان خواهید بود؟ با چه تضمینی؟
آبهای زیرزمینی کشور من به عمق ۲۰۰ متر رسیدند. دریاچه ها خشک شدند. خونابه های بیمارستان، مواد رادیواکتیو و فاضلاب های صنعتی در رودخانه های شیرین در جریان است و ما آنها را می نوشیم. گازهای سمی و ذرات ریز خاک در هواست. ما آینده ای نداریم
لطفا آگاهیتان را افزایش دهید تا بدانید این ارتش حکومتی که به دنیا می اورید تا چند درصد و با چه تضمینی به کودکان اینده ای که در رویایتان نقاشی کرده اید خواهد داد؟
These are the words of a woman who is treated as a second-class citizen and whose “life” is worth half that of a man in her country
No one knows if things will work out in a child’s favor after birth. Around the world, it is estimated that over 10 children go missing every day. Their bodies are sold for the purpose of child labour or prostitution. The selling and buying of their organs alone generates billions of dollars
Every child is at risk. Can you confidently say that you will be there for them for the rest of your “life?” Will you take care of them when they grow older? Can you guarantee that you will?
In our country, groundwater depletion reached 200 meters. Our lakes have been shrinking. Hospital, radioactive and industrial wastes have been released into our drinking water. Our air is unbreathable. We simply have no future
Please ask yourselves: can you guarantee that the chattels you give birth to will see themselves in the picture of the future you painted for them?
[There is no guarantee. You may realize that nothing can be more horrifying than “life” or birth itself]
Hayao Miyazaki is not a pioneer of feminist representation
In all Ghibli stories, girls and women possess conventionally feminine attributes. They have a cute voice and a shy demeanor. They are more in contact with the home or the forces of the spirit world, as if women are alien to human societies. They are either cooking or cleaning (Sophie as cleaning lady for Howl, Satsuki and Mei cleaning their new house in My Neighbor Totoro, Chihiro cleaning the bathhouse in Spirited Away, Kiki cleaning the room in Kiki’s Delivery Service, etc)
They are docile and emotionally dependent on men. If the boy doesn't get the girl, the girl gets the boy. That's not feminism. That's the liberal version of patriarchy. True feminism or subversion of gender roles is in the rejection of the "straight" lifestyle
"There's nothing wrong with love or falling in love"
There's nothing wrong with it, because you believe there's nothing wrong with it? Then there's everything wrong with it, because I believe there's everything wrong with it!
Ghibli may be less misogynistic than Disney, but it is important to recognize that there is progress to be made. The few times women fought for themselves doesn't erase all the flaws within Studio Ghibli
Idols are objects of worship and desire. The name "idol" leaves little room for error or imperfection
Greatly revered, idols present themselves in an immaculate manner. They want to be well known for their well-knownness
But fame is not meant to be a free, unrequited surrender of a fan's resources. It comes with a price
Fans give and idols take. In addition to fame and fortune, fans give idols a part of themselves, bestowing a quality of "sacredness" upon the fame and fortune that pass beyond measure. This asymmetry provokes indebtedness. The giving would be accompanied by an expectation of receiving something of equal value in return. Music and performance on their own wouldn't be enough to compensate for a fan's loss of resources
Idols, then, should pay the piper by giving fans a part of themselves and undertaking a state of perpetual decency or virginity: no tattoos, no alcohol, no cigarettes, no drugs, no racism, no homophobia, no weight gain, no "dating," no "fornication" and no "marriage"
To refuse to give themselves to their fans would be tantamount to cheating or declaring war; to rejecting alliance and commonality
"Idols are people, not objects" annuls the status of idols, catching itself in a singular double bind. Objects of desire trying to escape their fate as objects of desire would be inconsistent with their purpose. A madness at its very best
Be that as it may, idols are people who are looked up to. They are role models. And role models are held to a higher standard than everyone else
I sympathize with idols, while enjoying the spectacle of their fall if they let me down
Society: the lack of gay representation is homophobic!
Also society when there is gay representation: that's gay-baiting, fetishizing and homophobic!
"Gay-baiting" is a sign of progress. It's because gay representation has improved that producers, actors and idols are accused of "gay-baiting"
Heteronormative ideology dominates media and maintains social hierarchical structures that marginalize and exclude gay people at all sectors of society. Till the 90s, western industries had a set of guidelines that prohibited any inference to gay relationships. That was in the west!
Non-western countries are more conservative. Their producers have no choice but to "gay-bait." Gay relationships are hinted at and shrouded in visual cues so that the homophobic majority do not throw a fit. Noone wants their business going bankrupt
For now, "gay-baiting" is a necessary and intelligent marketing strategy that exposes the public to gay activities and relationships
We should be grateful some (e.g. OnlyOneOf) take it upon themselves to go beyond "gay-baiting"
"They are profiting off of the gay identity," you say. And? Society revolves around money. "Straight" media fetishizes and profits off of women and the "straight" identity. You should ban "straight" media first if fetishization and commercialization are your problems
"They are not gay themselves," you say. And? The point of acting is to perform roles representing characters that differ from one's own. Actors don't have to be e.g. doctors to act as e.g. doctors. Actors don't have to be gay to act as gay people
That said, "sexuality" is fluid. The "straight" identifying people who play gay roles might realize that they are not "straight." We should give them the chance to explore
Heteronormative ideology is pervasive and persistent, the unrelenting and insidious essence of which is further aimed at the public through a genre called "mpreg" that maintains limited, heterosexist roles (e.g. one becomes "pregnant" and another "impregnates")
So-called "mpreg" is "who’s the man and who’s the woman in the relationship" at its worst taking a nosedive. Whoever has an issue with the "seme/uke" trope, should have an issue with so-called "mpreg"
The "to-be-pregnant" character that is claimed to be a "man" is a woman, acts like a woman, yields to the "gender" roles that affect women and their perceptions of themselves and experiences what women experience. The character is in no way a man
So-called "mpreg" is not only homophobic, but also discriminatory against the childfree movement. Its "creators" and consumers can not fathom that one can build a happy, healthy relationship without "kids"
The lack of media and literature depicting gay relationships is an issue. And so-called "mpreg" and "futanari" rub salt into the wound. They are "straight" media and literature disguised as gay, and women’s "pregnancies" disguised as so-called "men’s pregnancies"
So-called "mpreg" and "futanari" should be banned as genres. No material, video, animation, comic, literature, game, etc, should depict such an abomination
To the people who accuse me of "kink shaming" them: my kink is kink shaming and you’d be shaming my kink. Why wouldn’t I shame yours?
To the people who appeal to seahorses, pipefishes, etc: https://imgur.com/UcmJi2Y
"Fish, reptiles, amphibians, and birds don't actually get "pregnant" in the sense that mammals do. In species with internal fertilization, the offspring is nourished entirely by the egg, not by either parent or a placenta, until it hatches. In fish and other species with primarily external fertilization (some fish are internal), the female lays eggs and "f*cks off" while the male deposits sperm and carries the eggs"
"The male does not produce a placenta or nourishment for the offspring and is therefore not pregnant, in the same way that if I carry around a hamster in my hands, I am not pregnant with said hamster, and if I carry gum in my mouth, I am not pregnant with said gum. The pouch is not the same as a uterus in structure or function. After hatching, offspring return to the pouch when confronted with a threat. Other male fish look after fertilized eggs in nests they've made or in their mouth. The nest is not pregnant, nor is the mouth"
The biologist takes the words out of my mouth. No male in any specie can become "pregnant"
The male seahorse or pipefish, for instance, has a pouch in which fertilized eggs are deposited. It’s not a womb. It’s like a bag. For something to be "pregnancy," the body of a female and placenta are required
Definition of "pregnancy": the time during which one or more offspring develops inside a female's womb
No male has a womb. What males experience can not be considered "pregnancy". And no, a male seahorse or pipefish has no womb or else it wouldn’t be a male. A womb is a female organ that a male can not have
The so-called "scientists" that claim a male seahorse or pipefish is "pregnant" use "pregnancy" as a metaphor. They are not literally "pregnant"
It's incorrect to use the term on non-mammals. They function differently in the area. Fertilized eggs residing in a pouch is not "pregnancy" as much as bacteria residing in male human guts doesn't mean every male human in existence is "pregnant"
To claim male pipefish, seahorse, etc are "pregnant" renders "pregnancy" meaningless. Anything would be "pregnant" in that case; including a coffee mug with a roach inside it. And that’s beyond ridiculous
More on why so-called "mpreg" is bulls*it: https://imgur.com/bcQNSzQ
Hmm what in Taehyung set your gaydar off? I'm a bi woman and idk I don't trust my gaydar at all 😆 what's worse is that i fing it hardest to detect Bis like me 😆 that's why Im asking bc jhope and tae might be bi but idk 🤔 I always get the urge to move jhope in the gay category and tae with the straights. I am always open to the possibility of being wrong but here's my assumption -> Gay - JM & Suga; Bi - jhope & tae; Straight - jk, jin, rm
These are my personal opinions which may not have any basis, so nobody come for my head please, I just wanna discuss 😅
I think because of fan service and skin ship it's sometimes hard to differentiate to potential sexualities, even in a group like BTS where it seems less geared toward queer sensibilities.
Thoughts of the members sexualities...
Hyung line excluding J Hope:
RM - Heteroflexible, I used to flip between thinking he's straight or Bi.
Jin - He's straight, I could also see him as demi-sexual though
Suga - Bi/Pan - he's said as much in lyrics and interviews, but probably leans towards women in general.
Maknae Line & J Hope:
Firstly, Hobi & Jimin...
J Hope - Bi, he initially gave me ACE vibes, but as I got to know him I realised he's probably wasn't comfortable in his sexuality and has grown in confidence.
Jimin - Bi... well first off he's close to Kai and Taemin and friends, who give off the biggest queer vibes in the entire K-Pop community, also he flirts with anything guys and girls in equal measure.
Ok on to Taekook, here are some of the things that make me think why I came to the conclusions I did...
JK
Demi-sexual Gay or possibly Bi with possible gender non-conforming. JK is an enigma wrapped in a puzzle… yes, he dresses masculine a lot, but he constantly wears gender-neutral clothing brands and even said (paraphrasing) fashion has no gender.
He has liked queer singer/songwriters:
His constant plugging of Troye Sivan (even covered "Fools" about young gay love as duest with RM),
Sharing a gay unrequited love song by Years & Years - Memo
The alleged LGBTQ playlists on his official Spotify profile before they disappeared
Adding Trans artist Kim Petras to playlist
Adding Queer singer/songwrite Carlie Hanson to his playlist
As wells as other queer songs to, such as:
Destin Conrad - In the Air
Troye Sivan - Suburbia | Talk Me Down | There for You
Kehlani - You Should be Here | Honey
Kim Petras - Do Me
Let us also not forget his first thought when meeting RM was thighs. Plus he has fascination with guy butts, slapping them or filming them.
His used of the phrase "I'm Still Me" a few months after the release of Love, Simon in South Korea. He used it twice, firstly in a tweet posting some art, then later in the summer package when asked how he's changed, in both case he used the exact English.
His whole partners are family too, thing during the Japanese BBQ Party
The whole golden closet films, with Bert and Ernie inside.
Overall, whilst he can be masculine, there are times JK is incredibly feminine. JK is queer, he just doesn't broadcast it loudly, just like the others in the group or even in K-Pop in general. So the suspicion is less on him because he only occasionally talks about his interests and likes, that might come across as queer.
Tae
He's probably the only one I can say is definitely gay. He does things that your typical straight man would not do.
Most straight men I know, personally or work with, would not have three gay photographers as their favourites and in the case of Ante Badzim an inspiration. Also, I find it interesting that as a thank-you Ante (who is now a friend with Tae) Tweeted this photo of two naked men in a pool:
Ryan McGinley, a well known photographer, who's photographed tons of celebs, but also posts very gay and very naked gay couples, nudes and sexually explicit suggestive content mostly focusing on the men...
Here are some examples of Ryan McGinley's work:
It should be noted, during a pre-BE album YouTube Live video with Tae, RM and Hobi, RM mentioned Ryan in conversation with Tae regarding the photography for BE's concept and JK, to which Tae became very nervous about, and hinted that that was related to a secret project. Tae has one of Ryan's photo-books, which he photed about, though he had to issue an apology for posting a photo of the book back in 2016. In 2017, Dean (KwonHyuk) posted a screenshot of his conversation with Tae (note the chat was quite innocuous). Tae's chat profile image was of a naked man running a field, the photographer of that images was Ryan: https://www.koreaboo.com/stories/detectives-discover-connection-between-bts-v-and-dean/
Tae also highlights and promotes, queer/gay artists too. He's a big fan of Troye Sivan and has recommended 5 of his songs:
Easy ('Easy' follows the star as he examines a crumbling relationship, begging his lover to give their relationship a second chance.")
Seventeen (he alluded that his song is about losing his virginity to an older man)
What a heavenly way to die (a love song about growing old with his significant other, spending their last days in each other's company)
My My My (is about queer sexual liberation and love with an MV that very gay)
Animal (A beautiful same sex song about being whipped for his man)
Another song he chose to highlight, both in a VLive and in a Bangtan Bomb, was Crazy Beautiful by Austin P Mackenzie:
Other LGBTQ+ artists/songs he highlighted are:
Conan Gray - The Other Side
Sam Smith - Stay With Me ! Lay Me Down
Kehlani - Advice ! Piece of Mind ! Dstraction
Frank Ocean - Thinkin bout you
It's clear he's a big fan of Leslie Cheung, a deceased gay actor, from Hong Kong. He's some evidence that Tae's a fan:
Happy Together, the first big gay film to come out of Hong Kong, starring Leslie Cheung.
And let us know forget that Taekook used the hand sign that Leslie Cheung did to he's lover Daffy during concerts and a secret way of say I love you:
Side note: JK also did some Leslie Cheung things too:
Taehyung, has highlighted/reference several films with gay centric storylines. They are:
Moonlight - is references in his song 4 O'Clock
Call Me By Your Name - he mentioned it in a VLive with Hobi, referenced it in a Tweet playing the piano to the soundtrack on in Pride Month, and reading the script of the father / son conversation, in full in Korean, about accepting one's sexuality.
The Man I love - In the same VLive with Hobi, he mentioned this French gay film
One of his favourite fashion designers is gay, Alessandro Michele from Gucci:
He likes queer artists, like Alexander Calder and Jean Michel Basquiat:
Conclusion
No straight person I know would highlight this many queer content/artists as their personal favourites. Most gay men I know will gravitate to queer content more and have queer representations in the homes and life. People gravitate to things that resonate with themselves. And if you're queer, that will be queer people and things.
"Sexuality" is complex. A "spectrum," they say. Men are bound to feel attracted to one another when confined within man-only spaces in which no woman is available or present
Situational homosexuality proves noone is strictly or 100% "straight"
They can swing the other way depending on the situation
