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@disco-pony
they feel like a family together
[1+2] [3]
“Transfeminist pregnancy: reproductive speculation, genre, and desire,” yeah the desire to be denied an abortion due to a psychologically horrific concoction of dysphoria and survivors guilt. if i'm gonna be nice about it.
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i didn't get it
there's something so fucking sinister about a post comparing trans men to predators alike transphobic people as if we're not being trafficked and murdered and raped everyday while having those experiences erased getting a whole 3.5k notes. and this was written by a trans guy too! how can you be so unkind?
It sometimes feels like there is a kind of trans man (and, I do usually mean trans man in this case, not transmasculine people as a whole etc) who is really affirmed by the idea of being dangerous or frightening.
They'll say things like "Obviously, I shouldn't go to a women's health clinic! I've got a beard you could hide a goat in, and a big baritone voice, I would make the little ladies scared and uncomfortable! It's far too easy for me to accidentally terrify a woman with my tough masculine demeanour!" Or "Of course it's different for women- Nobody is going to pick a fight with me, I walk with an attitude, the LOVE and HATE tattooed on my knuckles have almost been obliterated by scar tissue," and yeah, comparing themselves to dangerous animals or predators.
And I get it! Masculinity in many places is constructed as "dangerous", so there is so much more cachet in saying something to the effect of "I could be a dangerous, violent, bad man, I've got the devil in me... But I choose to be kind and gentle and never to use it unless my loved ones are in danger." Than to say "I am fundamentally not a threat, my anger is funny at best, I have the ability to be spiteful but really the worst I can do is to shout and puff my cheeks up." But... Eh. Maybe it works as a way of making yourself feel better about your own self-image, but it isn't real and you can't base your assessment of reality on it.
Why are so many of you on this site more willing to align yourselves with cis male MRAs than with transmasc feminists, while calling yourselves "transfeminists"?
You eat up all their talking points. You say that pedophiles aren't real and age of consent laws are wrong. You fearmonger about babytrapping in response to people with uteruses who are afraid of dying due to abortion bans, and then call those things equivalent. You equate circumcision with FGM. (I am against both, but the former is NOT equivalent to the latter). You insult trans men with slurs referring to their genitals and call them bitches and cunts. You fearmonger about "men" who are "invading women's spaces," except instead of trans women, you mean trans men.
You aren't acting like trans feminists, or any kind of feminists at all. You're acting like MRAs. Why are you doing this? You aren't transfeminists. You aren't pro-anything, even pro-trans woman. You're solely anti-trans man.
They're both sets of people where the core tenet of their philosophy is "Being born with a vadge protects you from the worst kind of discrimination and suffering, it's life on easy mode. They are so cosseted and coddled they can't even accurately imagine how hard life is for AMAB people who don't live up to patriarchal ideas of the ideal man, which is the aforementioned worst kind of suffering. Facing even a minute of that kind of treatment would destroy anyone AFAB."
i saw the most stupid take ever
someone was talking about how it's weird that their tmasc friend is uncomfortable using the men's restroom when they pass and this is an example of "afab privilege"
like gee i wonder why he would feel uncomfortable
it's almost like transmascs have the highest assault rates
it's almost like the discrimination/misogyny one has faced from not being born a perisex man doesn't go away simply from being trans and transitioning into a man
it's almost like going into spaces that were technically built for cisgender perisex men is subjecting yourself to more situations where abuse can happen due to not being born a perisex man
it's almost like the very idea of "afab privilege" being a thing is misogynistic in itself
This line of transradfem discourse truly truly lost the plot when it introduced "afab privilege" because I know their laser focus is on dunking on trans men (sometimes their fellow trans men), but if you pause for the slightest moment, we are hinging your theory on the idea that includes the notion that cis women have inherent privileges over cis men...like...do you wanna maybe revise something before we continue?
These statements are not even true of trans men, but if you can't be bothered to just say that you mean to target trans men and need to make up some essentialist reason why they are above other trans people in the hierarchy ladder, you instead settle on "being assigned female is a privilege in society"??? pals, be serious.
The toilet thing is especially grim because, at least in the UK (where our one single solitary andrology clinic that does meta and phallo has a backlog of cases stretching back ten years and sporadically closes for years at a time, meaning UL is incredibly rare) it's still common in rough areas to find men's toilets with no doors on the stalls or no stalls at all. So, statistically speaking you're unlikely to have had UL, meaning that if you're using the urinal you're either using an STP, or you have visibly had to pull your trousers right down in order to stand to piss manually (which, incidentally, gets harder as you get bigger bottom growth because the ligaments around the urethra thicken up, making it harder to pull it forward, even if there wasn't also the constant risk of pissing on your own dick!)
So you're generally at greater risk, because if you're using the urinal there is a high chance of someone noticing that you aren't using it "normally", if you're waiting for a cubicle you have to just stand there looking awkward and drawing attention to the fact that you're not using the urinal, if you're using a cubicle with no door, you need to make it look like you're antisocial enough to shit while maintaining eye contact with passers-by, etc. It's not an insurmountable risk - Most of us do it, I've done it for 20 years and have only got in a couple of physical fights in that time, it's mostly just been intimidation or groping otherwise - but it is a real one, and with the new guidance it's going to get worse.
"AFAB privilege" is the incel tenet of "Girls experience life on easy mode" wrapped in a trans flag.
The sickening thing about the fact that transfeminists keep claiming that any acknowledgement of transandrophobia or even just any acknowledgement that trans men are oppressed/not the same as cis men/do not have male privilege/etc makes someone a (T)MRA is that they don't believe that. They don't actually believe transmascs who talk about their own oppression or who want to protect trans men from discriminatory laws are actual men's rights activists. They know that trans men aren't following that belief system and they know trans men aren't welcome in MRA spaces and they know the argument transmascs are making has nothing to do with MRAs.
I'm not gonna give them the benefit of pretending to be stupid, they are fully aware transandrophobia, and the fight to destroy it, has nothing to do with MRAs or the incel movement. They know the goals are different, they know trans men face legitimate discrimination. They fucking know these things aren't the same, it's not a genuine belief they hold because they are stupid but they aren't THAT fucking stupid. They know.
They are comparing them maliciously and we need to, genuinely, stop entertaining this distraction. We need to stop writing up big posts pointing out the differences between these movements because they know they aren't the same. We need to stop clarifying the differences because they genuinely don't need to be taught, they know, they just want to catch you up in semantics instead of talking about the actual point. Same as the people who claim trans activism is the same as pedophilia defending or Mysogny.
Those groups don't genuinely believe that, they just like to stop you up and distract you so you don't call them out for whatever they are doing to hurt you with said accusation or stop you from talking about it because you're too busy proving trans rights activism that centers trans men, or trans men's issues in general, are not the same as men's rights activism. They know they aren't the same, they know they don't have the same views, they are just trying to make you stumble to make you look stupid or score some Internet points. It's catchy and easy to throw out a bullshit accusation but it's hard to disprove it without writing an essay about the differences. That's why they do it, it's how bigots attempt to debate or how conspiracy theorists make shit up, they expect you to take the burden of proving them wrong when they need to prove why they say that on sound reasoning. They don't have to prove their beliefs to other people who already hate the group, they aren't even putting in the effort to source their accusations, so don't put in the full effort to disprove them. Just look at them and say " I'm not going to entertain baseless accusations when we both know you don't genuinely believe that.".
It's one thing to inform a genuinely uninformed person but don't be naive, transfeminists know the people fighting against transandrophobia aren't the same nor even comparable to men's rights activists, they just compare them to hurt transmascs and to justify, to themselves, why they should ignore transmascs proving them wrong. You need to either start calling them out for being disingenuous when they say it or ignore them. Stop giving them attention on shit they know isn't true but hurts you anyway.
I watched the Louis Theroux documentary on The Manosphere a couple of weeks ago, since I'd been told so many times by such respected scholars that trans men would recognise ourselves in their talking points and share their values, and funny enough there didn't seem to be too many of them deeply concerned with improving access to gynaecological care or ending unnecessary gendering.
one of my biggest gripes with the trans community and the discussion of transandrophobia is that its really fucking hard to explain to, without offending/triggering, someone who cant get pregnant, who has never had the ability to get pregnant, and would REALLY LIKE the ability to get pregnant, how pregnancy can be used as an act of violence, ESPECIALLY against trans men, and that its not the same as being forced to impregnate someone, both dysphoria wise or otherwise. like they have wildly different implications. a trans man who is forcibly impregnated is forced to stop testosterone for the duration of the pregnancy, and are often barred from legal abortion more frequently than cis women. his body is changed permanently from the pregnancy, the pregnancy can out him as trans if he is stealth, pregnant people are often times physically dependent on other people after a certain point of the pregnancy which leaves them vunerable to being trapped with an abuser, and a trans man who is dysphoric about pregnancy is going to have to live with that for the duration of the pregnancy, while watching the pregnancy that he did not want permanently change his body. on top of that, it is SO HARD to rebuild a life/career after pregnancy FOR ANYONE, AND ESPECIALLY trans men. theres a reason that forced marriage/pregnancy is such a common and effective detransition tactic against trans men, both in non-western countries but everywhere else too. theres a reason we worry about it so much. these implications simply do not exist for someone who is forced to impregnate someone. its obviously sexual assault and is horrible and it is permanently life ruining but not to the extent that actually being the pregnant party is, and pretending like theyre the same or even comparable is like. its not even transandrophobia its just ridiculous
the fact that there are multiple other trans men in the reblogs of the post expressing that if they ever got pregnant they would kill themselves should be really telling to people (trfs) that the ability to get pregnant is not a privilege (ESPECIALLY for trans men) and is often times an oppressive tool to use against people who can get pregnant, unfortunately they say that trans men bringing up the fear of pregnancy and all the implications for trans men specifically that comes with it is them "bragging to trans women about being able to get pregnant" and "transmisogynistic"
I keep running up against the fact that this is a kind of severe and lasting bodily harm that is allowed to be enacted on anyone who can become pregnant, by any member of the population who can make someone pregnant, and that in many jurisdictions it's illegal or legally fraught to try to either prevent the harm in the first place, or to stop it from continuing once it's started.
It's a thing that one average citizen can do to another that immediately removes a load of their legal rights and subordinates even their right to medical treatment, work, and survival, to a very strict set of conditions which treats them as less-than-human.
It can permanently change all sorts of things about a person, physically and mentally, in ways that are not just painful they're also disabling and many of them are permanent - And there is no way of predicting which ones will be permanent and which won't. And setting it in motion requires very little physical effort and can even be done accidentally.
It's been reaffirmed that Tarjit Singh has no right to appeal and is going to serve the rest of his ten year sentence, plus 3 year license. There's no question that he was (eventually) verbally abusive and physically violent, but that's not what he was being charged with - The charge is for "Sex by deception", ie, having sex with a cis person without concrete proof that they knew you were trans.
The news coverage also deadnames him repeatedly and most of it is also being disgusting about his body.
Are we going to have any kind of communitywide outpouring of grief over a severely mentally ill Black man doing a ten year stretch for consensual sex with women he met on dating sites, just because he was trans? Or do we only do those for photogenic white girls?
One note post... But hey that's all right, it must be that everyone else made their own post and it got lost in the churn. Surely if I search his name, that will find dozens of posts with thousands of notes!
Oh.
Incredible work simultaneously blaming trans men for their own need to join teams that don’t align with their identity (or else end their careers entirely) while reaffirming the sexist structure of sports but like, wokely. I agree this and all “women’s teams” should sign trans women but like what are we doing here. Why are we acting like this is some kind of unforgivable misogynistic act that poor wombyn are going to be FORCED to play with a MAN (no it’s ok he’s trans so it’s actually super affirming to say that!!!) and not like. Focus on how it sucks that trans athletes have to make these kinds of choices. Wait I know why it’s bc hating transmasculine ppl is considered cool right now
It's fun and friendly how the trans women who continue to play in "men's" sport after transition are badass and brave and obviously making an awful sacrifice in many ways in order to stay a part of her community and do the sport she loves, but the trans men who continue to play "women's" sport are either misogynists or idiots, who history will not look kindly on.
Almost like the people who say this stuff don't actually believe that men and women are equally matched, and think that women will suffer if there is a man on the field.
I'm trying to find resources for DIY'ing. I know that for transmascs it's a little more tricky with T being a controlled substance, but it's not as difficult as I thought it was when I finally, actually found testimony and resources.
The problem was finding those in the first place. I was too nervous to just look up "diy testosterone" on plain Google so I instead went to social media sites (here and Bluesky) to see if I could find more direct, personal recommendations and guides. Scooting past the actual TERFs and transphobes drowning out results, I got a lot of posts just..... shitting on trans men??? For some reason???
About how we "expect women to do all the work for us" and how "trans women can't even bring up DIY without TMEs whining" and how "transmascs think they're the only people in the world with problems." Couple with OTHER TRANS MEN chiming in and saying how much safer and easier DIY'ing for T is because we can just "go ask guys at our local gym to hook us up."
I don't know what I'm doing and I'm just trying to find places to start, I'm sorry that transmascs having concerns about legal consequences and potential health complications are like..... annoying?? To you I guess??? But it's really just saddening that this infighting is so pervasive that it's actively drowning out any helpful discussions that could be being had by our community regarding off the grid transition.
I don't mean to be bothering trans women with questions or concerns, I legitimately don't know and am trying to find answers to questions not already answered by DIY website FAQs, and trying to find specifically transmasc DIY groups for this that aren't forced to be as vague and quiet as possible for fear of legal repercussions or having their hosting site/platform taken down is hard.
This is transandrophobia
It's always "fun" watching cis gym bros transmute depending on what's being talked about.
When they're the rhetoric background to why a pre-coming-out pre-egg trans girl is in danger, they're violent and unpredictable and will beat and rape anyone who is in any way socially transgressive or smaller than them, and anyone who thinks they could survive proximity to them is stupid and rash. But when a trans man is asking for some recognition that DIYing with a Class B drug is harder than DIYing with something you can legally buy, they're the softest cuddly marshmallows in the world and anyone who doesn't want to approach them is stupid and cowardly.
okay so you know there's like. a difference between characters created by a person and real people really making real decisions on how to live their lives and who they love right?
Like you can create a fictional woman defined by her appearance and it's sexist, but if you look at a real life woman who is attractive and decide she should make decisions based on her perceived attractiveness like not date 'ugly' men you personally are the one misognistly defining her by her appearance right? unlike the fictional woman whose inferiority is left uncreated, this woman has real interiority. you understand this is the problem we are talking about, right, and not uggos dating hot women????? Do you actually think it's either sexist or a social problem that an attractive woman is dating an unattractive man irl?
I feel like I'm being fussy but also like, "Dungarees box dye 90lbs" isn't a description of an incredibly average "boring" cis guy is it?
Like, this prima facie just looks like "This guy is insufficiently masculine," and in a way that feels like a hint towards his insufficiencies being because he's trans, and culturally within an (unfashionable) sphere of queerness rather than closer to either cishet masculinity or a queer subculture that's closer to the speaker's preferred one...
Sometimes when I’m staring down the barrel of the hundreds of thousands of dollars it will cost, months to years of recovery time and multiple rounds of surgery involving removing unwanted organs and reconstituting my flesh into a brand new body part that still won’t do everything I want it to in order to feel more myself I wish I lived in the fantasy reality people like this did where “masculinizing surgeries” were “just about everywhere you look.” Unfortunately this is the real world, where medical misogyny doesn’t disappear when you switch your pronouns and in fact gets much much worse in most regards because the already paltry research on your body parts gets even more sparse once you start changing things. I won’t even dignify the misinformation around “testosterone supplements” being “easy to access” because as usual it’s one made with extreme privilege in mind (that being, the privilege to play with the law and risk a controlled substance charge) other than to say that it’s tiresome. Also very telling how this person felt the need to call in flying monkeys who aren’t even transmasc (who are both also WHITE vs OP who is a black man) to comment on things they have no business speaking on, while making up shit OP literally did not say. Deeply unserious and disgusting behavior.
I want to live in this alternate universe where testosterone isn't a controlled substance and trans men can't get a criminal record and/or involuntarily sectioned for modifying their own genitals.
So the short version of that post seems to be "Any sufficiently sad-looking AMAB could be TMA without realising that their problem is transmisogyny (because she doesn't know she's trans yet), so should be treat as an extremely vulnerable, deeply oppressed person, and they are being oppressed by TME people, who by the same token must be AFAB." And that feels dangerous. I'm rolling it around in my head, but that's the only reading I can hold in my head right now.
(This isn't a reply because I don't want to bother OP while I try to nut out my thoughts, but I'm also posting it here because I need more brains than mine.)
Every time I bring up my belief that a transfem is oppressed before she or anyone else realizes she's transfem to tme people, I universally get met with skepticism or even outright hostility.
Every time I bring it up to transfems, I get immediate positive acknowledgement. I have had so many girls tell me awful stories from their egg days, some more awful than I could have ever imagined.
Even those of us without stories from the beforetimes still wear the scars. Regularly I'll come across transfems who don't remember huge parts of their pre-hatch life. Regularly I'll come across transfems with self worth so low they see being objectified as a compliment. Regularly I'll come across traumagenic plural transfems who have had their psyche shattered from childhood trauma. (this is kind of a self report considering we are or have been all of these lol)
The reason TME people don't want to acknowledge this reality is because they are complicit in it. They were the ones traumatizing us, and they haven't stopped. Trauma is not inherent to transfeminine existence, it is a product of the transmisogyny these people refuse to admit exists.
hey so trans men are being forcibly detransitioned in prisons in the hopes to preserve their fertility. and the president admitted this but it didnt even start under him its been happening. why arent we talking about this? why isnt this a discussion?
this is happening to trans people of all genders. don’t be a fucking asshole who thinks that trans women have “more visibility” than trans men. care about ALL trans people.
And trans women are mentioned in the original post where?
that’s the whole fucking point you dumb cunt
Remember kids, if someone posts about trans women without mentioning trans men, the morally good thing to do is to not mention trans men in the replies, because everyone deserves to be centred in conversation about their own problems. If someone posts about trans men without mentioning trans women, the morally good thing to do is to call them cunts and tell them to talk about trans women.
(Sidenote- I do not believe that anyone is trying to forcibly impregnate trans women in prison in order to secure a supply of domestically-adoptable babies, which is what is downstream of this issue that OP was talking about.)
Anyway you DO in fact have to think about how you would respond if someone close to you got accused of something terrible*, and if your answer is "I would do nothing, because it's more important to protect my circle from harm, and it's probably not true anyway", congrats! Now you know exactly why most communities allow child and domestic abuse to fester like an open wound
Additionally, while it's important to understand the underlying reasons why some groups of people are more willing and able to commit abuse, focusing too much on identity is foolish. Adopting the stance that real abuse is only possible when one is a parent/blood relative/man/white/cis/straight etc, and only committed for a narrow range of reasons ("exerting power") is completely disconnected from reality, and simply makes it easier for you to comfortably ignore abuse that doesn't fit the model!
I'm going to be grim here and say if you have the explicit stance of "I need a higher bar of proof before I will act on accusations of impropriety done by a marginalised person" (as a lot of people on here openly say!) you are going to engineer a situation where everyone in your friendship group has been assaulted by someone who is marginalised in some way (possibly even the same way as their victims!) and has used your leniency towards them and hostility towards their victims to get away with it.
Reminded of this post today because it got a notification and I feel grim that I must have posted this about a week before one of my mates* came to me and told me that "we needed to be wary around (NewGuy) because he's been accusing (ThirdPerson) of all sorts of weird stuff, and I told X and Y and Z what he told me and they all said they got bad vibes off him too so look after yourself..."
And then I sit down with NewGuy and the "all sorts of weird accusations" sound like a completely plausible garden-variety sexual assault, that is consistent with what I've seen ThirdPerson act like (to a lesser degree) in public. He told exactly one person, because he now didn't want to go to an event where ThirdPerson would be, and that person has told everyone.
So, this says great things about how "Believe victims" is going. We're basically being asked to assess which is more likely- That a relatively-new person in our friendship group is so deeply prejudiced against another person in the group that he has whole-cloth invented an extremely violent assault in order to libel xer, or that someone sexually assaulted a new acquaintance.
I don't know what to do with this.
I see that thing about "Orchestras hired measurably fewer women when, in the blind auditions, the interviewer could hear their heeled shoes click on the floor before they sat down" and I wonder which other subliminal "that's a woman" cues people might still be picking up on in my bearing to make the world steeper for me.
but saying this about trans women is violent transmisogyny, right?
It's such a fun and friendly double bind, because the trans man is left with two choices:
1) "I like being a man in our society, I like the way that men are treated and are expected to treat others - being seen as more-human than women, able to talk over women without consequences, being promoted over women, treated as the default, expected to solve problems with individualism and violence, expected eventually to exploit women in domestic relationships, etc" - congratulations, you're a bad person, because the way men are expected to be under patriarchy is dehumanising to everyone (and every queer masculinity is, ofc, seen as not-a-real-manhood anyway - It's very rare that a queer man will be able to NEVER interact with straight masculinity, even if just because queer men are outnumbered)
2) "I don't like being a man in our society, I don't like the way that men are treated and expected to treat others - It's a fundamental project of feminism to end the patriarchy and in the process totally change what it means to be a man or a woman and I want to be part of that change." - uhh dude you can be a man bro nobody is forcing you, you can just be a woman on T (psst if you do this you will have Detransitioned To Terf, because obviously if you REALLY wanted to detransition you'd be feminine, you're just refusing to admit your male privilege, you're mocking trans women by being a bearded woman, etc...)
