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@kashiraplayers
Is “you could never be my prince, because you’re a girl” something Anthy actually believes, or is she just taunting Utena with her worst fear?
I think that it’s a mix of both, but I also think that there’a another dimension to this line to consider.
How I read the ending of RGU, the point isn’t that Utena became the prince and rescued Anthy, but rather that The Prince as an ideal was false from the start. Utena realizes this (though not in the explicit terms of “this is talking about societal narratives as well as story narratives themselves” that I read this series as) during the scene with Anthy’s suicide attempt, when she admits that she was using Anthy for personal gain to fill an ideal rather than paying attention to Anthy’s needs as an individual. Instead, what Utena is able to do is not become The Prince, but rather to cast off the societal narratives that trap people in strict masculine/feminine roles (Prince/rescuer who gets rewarded and Princess/damsel to rescue as a prize), and instead enable Anthy to choose to escape her cycle of abuse on her own terms.
So using this lens, Anthy’s line resonates on multiple levels.
She’s using it as a way to antagonize Utena’s greatest fear – not becoming a prince because she’s a girl. However, becoming The Prince (the masculine false ideal as set up by the series) really /is/ impossible because Utena is a girl. Girls cannot fill the masculine role in the eyes of a strict patriarchal society (like the one Utena takes place in) because they can only ever be a pale imitation of masculine power. It’s ‘cute’ to see them try, until that masculinity becomes a threat – hence Akio’s feminization of Utena throughout the last arc of the series. (We can take a very psychoanalytic view here and say that throughout the series the mark of femininity is the ability to be penetrated, and that girls are feminized through forcible penetration of varying types [rape, swords], but I won’t pursue that line of thought. Insert some Lacanian BS about the power of the phallus as well.) So, in a sense, the statement is true. Utena cannot become The Prince ideal because she’s a girl, at least under the systems of power that exist within the world of RGU. (And….really, these are DEEPLY informed by the gendered systems of power in the real world.)
Late in the series, Anthy is so goddamned Done With Everything that I think she truly believes she is beyond help. She’s probably seen countless other Duelists go through the game and either fail or give in to want of power or otherwise fail to save Anthy because she can’t actually be saved as such (as an external action). She probably thinks that Utena is the same way, and that she’s be disappointed again. Also, even though Anthy is very much an abuse victim, she has a certain level of power and psychological safety in the bubble that she’s in. She’s victimized and demonized, yes. Very much so. But she can derive power from that victimization, and takes what little she can get, just to cope with it, and breaking out of that cycle of abuse is nearly impossible for her without some sort of external support. She quite possibly doesn’t realize that she wants out, since it’s psychologically safer for her to not go through change and the unknown. (Something something everyone is implicated in the systems of power they live in, no matter what their relationship to that system is and even if they are subjugated by it something)
So in that sense, she knows that she can’t be rescued, she’s jealous of Utena’s relationship with Akio and sees her as a threat, she’s Done with the whole Prince archetype that can never change a system that it is very much a part of, and she’s antagonizing Utena with both Utena’s deepest fear and what Anthy sees as the truth.
So, I suppose, this comes back to “it’s a little bit of both.” However, it’s not because Anthy was outright wrong, but rather, it’s because what Utena did was something other than become The Prince and rescue Anthy – she instead created a new way of existing outside of the gendered systems of power at Ohtori (and thus disappeared from Ohtori, since she became something unknowable under that system) and gave Anthy the support she needed to, in a sense, rescue herself, and also choose to leave that system.
The message of the series, at least to me, is less “girls can also become princes” as it is “the Prince archetype is a false ideal of patriarchy and while it seems to be a noble goal, is actually just as harmful, and just as impossible, as the ideal femininity that Anthy is shown to be unable to hold up” (Rose Bride as the ideal submissive wife vs. being impaled as a Witch because she’s taking the blame for her own subjugation, to put it very simply).
Of course, the beauty of this series is that there’s so many possible interpretations that you almost can’t go wrong. ultimately, it comes down to what you take out of Anthy’s line, and how sincere you think she’s being, and what meaning you think it has whether she is or is not.
I hope that helps give you some ideas, though!
I’m mired in thesis revisions and likely won’t get to a liveblog today. Apologies for the delay.
You reblogged a video recently that analyzed the use of the color yellow in Utena. The analyst said something that stood out to me, which was that episode 34 implies that Anthy sealed away Dios' power by taking his nobility/purity, or in other words she created Akio by having sex with him. Is this a common interpretation of events? I've never heard this view before.
This isn’t a very common view, no! But it is a thematically and logically valid reading, especially considering– deep breath, everyone–
The worst part of SKU, the television series, is its attitude toward sex.
I don’t think there’s ever a point where sexual activity is portrayed in an unabashedly positive light. It’s always a bargain, or coerced, or there’s a power imbalance, or someone’s lying, or they’re just sluttin’ it up cause they’re a slutty slut, or… you get the picture. Arguably, even Juri’s desire for a physical and romantic relationship with Shiori gets stomped on when Utena says she’s not like Juri, because her love is pure.
So yeah. It’s a more than valid reading to suggest that Anthy may have slept with her brother to seal away his power. It’s not even that unlikely that the creators meant to imply that. It isn’t an interpretation that has caught on much in the fandom, though, and I think it’s because people want to believe it’s better than that.
It might not be. *shrugs* What matters is what you come away from it with.
I’ll have to think on this more (and track down the video in question and watch it) when I’m not in the middle of thesis revisions, because the implication that Anthy is the one who initiated the sexual relationship between the two of them changes the way her character can be interpreted.
I’ve always felt a little alone in the fandom in my interpretation of Anthy as taking /pleasure/ in her position, since she gets a certain amount and type of power within the rules of the system by playing the role of the submissive and pulling the strings from behind the scenes, and choosing to give this up because it’s ultimately hurting her, rather than seeing Anthy as pure victim (though she is clearly an abuse victim). I’m not sure if I agree with the interpretation that she sealed away Dios’s power through sex, but it does complicate her role significantly because that would mean that she had a MUCH larger role at creating the systems of power in play at Ohtori than a lot of people tend to interpret her as (though I would argue that RGU is one of the best pieces of media ever in terms of showing how everyone is complicit in systems of power by necessity, in a very Foucauldian sense, the usual interpretation seems to be that Akio is the one who sets the ground rules and everyone else plays along).
Again, I’ll have to give this more than a minute’s thought when I have time.
Totally agreed on this series and sex, though. It’s really not a good portrayal, and while that can be pushed at a bit (especially in the interpretations of the characters almost falsely placing so much importance on sex and the ties between sex and maturity/adulthood/impurity/whatever), I’d say it ultimately comes down on the side of being rather negative and instead treating non-sexual relationships as more ‘pure’ (which seems to be a common theme in yuri, esp. with S-class relationships, but I don’t watch or read yuri generally so I can’t comment much on that). The movie changes that some, but even then....not entirely. There’s not enough character development there to convincingly go from ‘Utena thinks Anthy is a slut and is mad because she maybe slept with Touga’ to ‘Utena has come to realize her own sexuality and accept it’ (both in the sense of sexual orientation/attraction to women and in the sense of having sexual desire generally).
Revolutionary Girl Utena Episode 6 Liveblog
Join me under the cut for…well, it’s a Nanami episode. And not one of the better ones. Lots of discussion of the 1942 Val Lewton classic horror noir Cat People…of all things.
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Revolutionary Girl Utena Episode 5 Liveblog
The thrilling conclusion to Miki’s two-parter. This one got weirdly biblical. Join us for discussions of purity, the Garden of Eden, and enough repressed sexual fantasies to make even Freud blush.
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Revolutionary Girl Utena Episode 4 Liveblog
Join us this week for discussions of time, projecting fantasies onto others, non-diegetic inserts, and “I didn’t realize this was going to be a hentai”
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Revolutionary Girl Utena Episode 3 Liveblog
Join me this week for episode 3: social anxiety, heteronormativity, authenticity, and schools with way too much goddamned money for their own good.
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We will resume our regularly scheduled liveblogs next Saturday, June 24th.
Revolutionary Girl Utena Episode 2 Liveblog
Welcome to episode 2 of my RGU liveblog! Join me under the cut for discussions of normality, haunted houses, fangirls, and astrology.
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Liveblog! I just have a couple of comments:
- ‘On Whom the Rose Smiles’. I’m am very tempted to go intertextual with this one and link it to Rose of Versailles: the first episode is called ‘Oscar: The Destiny of the Rose’ and her destiny is connected with roses by the opening as well:
So perhaps the one on whom the rose smiles is the one with such a destiny? People like Oscar and Utena can’t just sway in the wind like the flowers in the field (like just another fly in the swarm?) - they stand out, they are destined for great but painful things. Actually, I think this allusion has a lot to do with why important people in RGU are always marked with roses, like we saw with Utena’s rose border and background at the beginning of this episode (where she continues to show a strong affinity with Oscar with her feminine fan club). In fact, in this episode she attempts to escape the duelling game but ultimately fails, indicating that the rosey destiny traps her as much as it exalts her.
(Or maybe the rose is Dios and the title is pointing to the obvious and interesting sign of his favour in this episode; and honestly I’m halfway convinced that Anthy was behind that all along, so maybe the rose is her as well.)
- I’m inclined to take Utena’s treatment of Chu-chu pretty literally in this episode. Anthy introduces Utena to her friend/pet, and Utena immediately shows kindness to him (as opposed to Saionji’s obvious disdain); it doesn’t have to be symbolic to point her out as a good person. But I guess it does function on a symbolic level as well, especially when Utena uses her concern about Chu-chu as a cover at the end of the episode.
Liveblog comments!
My quoting the lyrics to that song directly in the liveblog was about half joking, but the more I think about it, the more I like the explanation, whether it was intended as a direct Berubara reference or not. When I think of those lines in connection to Oscar at least, I think of how her life is beautiful and glorious, but short-lived and tragic, and I think this can apply to Utena to some degree as well, even if she’s somewhat of a subversion of that type. I’m sure that at this point the connection between “bara”/roses and queer men was already established (though I don’t know my history of manga catering to gay men enough to really comment further), and roses are, of course, perpetually associated in the shoujo genre with beautiful, princely men (think Tuxedo Mask).
The Anthy = rose thing does make sense on some level, as she is the Rose Bride after all -- though I wonder, does that mean that she’s the bride who is marked by/associated with roses, or does that means that she is the bride of the rose, as in, she is marrying the rose? In which case...there’s some pretty creepy implications there if we’re thinking of Dios as the rose, and his smile as a mark of his favor.
As for Chu-chu, I’ve never really been one for the various theories about what he represents, and tend to take him at face value (if anything, as a marker of the mood or tone of the scene in ways that other characters can’t express, but not as a singular Symbol that Means Something Deeper, if that makes sense), but I still feel like it’s something worth mentioning.
You should also know by now that at least 33% of the content of these liveblogs is going to be sarcastic and veiled shitposting on some level. :P Almost all of my Chu-chu analysis will likely fall into that category.
Revolutionary Girl Utena Episode 2 Liveblog
Welcome to episode 2 of my RGU liveblog! Join me under the cut for discussions of normality, haunted houses, fangirls, and astrology.
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Revolutionary Girl Utena Liveblog: Episode 1
It all begins here! Join me for sex, violence, intrigue, and lots of rambling analysis about societal structures.
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I don’t really have time to respond fully to this, but I will note that I never actually noticed/questioned the fact that she always goes to the arena at dusk, yet the duels always happen in full daylight. What better a sign that something weird is going on here? Are they meeting to duel at dusk or at dawn? But anyway, this was great, I’m glad you’ve finally started that liveblog you’ve been threatening!
They usually meet at dusk, at least, the challenges are usually to meet in the dueling area after school or “at sunset,” from what I can recall.
In episode 1, it’s fully night when she enters
And then fully day inside the area
Then night again afterwards
There has to be some sort of reasoning for it, since the duels pretty consistently take place at dusk or otherwise late in the day. (Do we get to see the area at night in that episode where she goes up there with Touga outside of a duel? I think she might even comment on how it’s night?)
It’s established later that weather effects are separate in the arena vs. outside the arena (episode 29, the rain stops at the edge of the arena), and seem to be tied to the emotional states of those dueling. I wonder if something similar is happening here? Does time pass inside the arena (so if you enter at 6:00 pm, you’d leave at 6:00 pm rather than however long it takes to go up all those stairs and duel)? It seems like the inside of the forest is in a separate plane of existence, and possibly a separate time as well.
Honestly, with how many times I’ve seen this series? This is also my first time noticing it, so I’m not entirely sure what to make of it yet. For now I’m throwing it on the pile of “weird time shit at Ohtori,” but there’s probably more analysis that can be done.
Also, not sure who the liveblogs were a threat to anymore: were they a threat to my followers, or to myself all along? :P Hopefully the next one takes me less time!
Revolutionary Girl Utena Liveblog: Episode 1
It all begins here! Join me for sex, violence, intrigue, and lots of rambling analysis about societal structures.
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@prinzvondersonne submitted: (kashiraplayers doesnt have submissions open so here i am haha)
so! i came across this and was wondering what your interpretation of this caption (from the blu ray) is?
Oh, how interesting! Which set does this come from exactly? You said the blu ray, so I’m assuming the Japanese blu ray, since as far as I know, the US release date hasn’t been set beyond a vague “2017″ yet? Is it the series (I can’t seem to figure out if the movie ever got a blu ray release even in Japan)?
Regardless, it seems as if it’s mostly a tongue-in-cheek joke about the fact that the movie is an AU setting – this phrase doesn’t really come up in the film (from what I remember), and here the AU versions of the characters are being directly addressed. It’s interesting to me that Anthy is the one looking our way (even if she’s probably looking at Utena and not at us directly), and Utena is looking away (at Anthy), even though this is typically Utena’s line. The ambiguity of this (is the “other me” addressing the AU versions, or are Utena and Anthy addressing each other? Or both?) and the quote not being attributed to one or the other character makes this much harder to analyze, though I think that might be part of the point.
It reminds me a little of the final “next episode” segment, the one done by the Shadow Girls. At the end, one of them says “yeah yeah, zettai unmei mokushiroku,” since it’s the expected line, but she makes a joke of how it’s perfunctory. If this is movie!Utena addressing her series form, there’s a similar level of awareness of the structure of the narrative, though it seems to go beyond even the Shadow Girls, since she would have awareness not only of the structures of the narrative, but also the content of the narrative of the series. Does it give credence to the “the movie is set after the events of the series” theory or dispel it? Not entirely sure here.
If it’s Utena and Anthy addressing each other, there’s a few things that it can be. One is that the characters are two sides of the same coin in a way – their roles can’t really be separated, and they come to reflect on each other. I’ve also seen analysis that talks about how the roles of Utena and Anthy have largely switched from the series to the movie (not sure if I agree), and this could be addressing that interpretation.
My instinct is to think that it’s Utena addressing her AU self, though. At the end of the movie, did she remove herself so far from societal systems that she removed herself from narrative altogether? (Well, technically, Anthy did most of that, Utena was just the vehicle for it, pun 100% intended.) It’s an interesting thought.
fabrickind replied to your post: I just read this post and I think it has some…
This is really interesting to think about. My first time watching this show, I was bored by the fight scenes, especially during the Black Rose Saga. I knew what the outcome would be, and I felt like I didn’t really need to watch them. But the more I’ve watched this show, the more the fight scenes interest me, since I’ve realized in the meantime that I’m not watching this show for the linear narrative, but rather for what the show is doing /with/ that narrative.
(Of course, I also realized that linear narrative coherence is not what to expect from this show – I love things like that, hence my love of RGU, but the show had to train me on what to expect first) I feel like that post also explains why I didn’t love part 3 of JJBA, but I digress…
I wonder if that’s one of the reasons a lot of people find the Black Rose arc more of a drag? I don’t think it’s actually much more repetitive than the rest of the show, but the duels in particular are shorter, more repetitive and less laden with character stuff (more of that comes out in the elevator sequence, and the duelists don’t as obviously have their own styles). Wakaba is a notable exception, of course: her duel is vastly different from anything else in the entire show, and that’s because the character motivations are so striking.
On the topic of narrative, it’s just struck me how important the duels are as a structural element in the show. Ok it’s kind of obvious but still. Most of the series is structured as these little self-contained character arcs which each have their own scripted rise towards the climax of the duel, and then often a small epilogue afterwards where the tension is released (this continues all the way up to the final duel). The duel is always the culmination of the tensions and conflicts which build up during the course of one or several episodes. The thing about that structure is that its cyclic rather than linear, the same structure repeated over and over with different participants - another smaller layer of cycles within the three larger duel cycles and ultimately the grand cycles which Anthy and Akio experience. (Obviously, the one who breaks the mould is Nanami, because her episodes have their own structures.)
Gonna reblog reply over on this blog.
I feel like the BRS works best on subsequent viewings. On a first viewing, there isn’t as much reason to care about the inner emotional lives of these characters yet, and we don’t quite yet realize the importance of the framework of the show itself,
Wakaba’s duel aside (she also breaks the pattern by having a two-part episode, something only given to [major] characters in the Akio arc), I agree with your assessment of the duels themselves -- shorter, more repetitive, less there to grab onto besides the somewhat obvious (as far as anything in Utena is obvious) symbolism of the items on the desks, etc. We get the character motivations in the elevator sequence, but we really don’t know or care about these characters (again, except for Wakaba) up until this point. They are background characters at best, and not even in the first arc (Shiori, Kanae) at worst. Even with the elevator sequences, for me at least, it can often be a moment of “okay, why should I care?” Who is this person, and why should I care about their emotional turmoil, since all of this was just dropped on me? It’s only after we see how both the BR Duelists and how the regular Duelists are changed by this (forgotten) experience in the final arcs that we can really understand or care about what happened in the BRS during those elevator sequences. At least, for me. :P
As for the structure and framework, it’s almost as if the show is trying to teach us to read it as a deconstruction, but that we can only understand that project upon reflection or rewatching. The BRS needed to be placed where it was. But when watching for the first time, it’s hard to understand why, or what that arc is doing there. I still feel like the BRS could have been from another show (and that show is Mawaru Penguindrum, for the record), especially when considering those last two episodes of the arc (also for the record, that first Mikage episode [22] is probably tied for my favorite in the whole series), but that’s the beauty of it. It takes the structure that has been set up and turns it on its head. But not everyone is going to respond to that, and I know I didn’t the first time I saw the series. I had to understand where the structure went from there in order to really appreciate the changes that happen during the BRS.
On the subject of Wakaba’s duel and her two episodes, I think that the reasons for her duel being so compelling is twofold: one is that we know her as a character and more space is given to her, so her motivations are far more compelling than the others, as well as Utena’s reaction to the duel. Two is that it works within the framework set up by the show but completely changes what we expect within there. Those episodes are really the pivot point of the series as a whole, I think (and they come exactly halfway through the series), and her duel is made so much more interesting than any of the others because it does both things that the BRS is trying to do, and does them exceedingly well -- it gives us incredible depth of character, and it turns the framework of the series totally upside-down in a way that we can really feel the impact of. (A duel where Utena outright refuses to pull a sword and has to use Wakaba’s sword, as well as the visual foreshadowing of Utena grabbing Wakaba’s hand in this duel/anthy grabbing Utena’s hand in the final episode...wow. The dueling theme also fits the model but is so much sadder and more intense than the other themes.)
I’ve softened my stance on the BRS in subsequent viewings. I’d rank the arcs as 3 > 4 > 2 > 1 these days, though I might flip BRS and the Apocalypse Saga.
As for the importance of the duels to the narrative structure, yes. Though I’m inclined to go even further with the cyclical structure on this, and say that while we get a relief of tension at the end, it’s never complete. It’s never satisfactory. Hell, Anthy even comments on it a few times in the BRS, most notably with Keiko (her famous ”you’ll keep lying to yourself for as long as it takes” line) and Shiori (”nah, Utena, you’re so naive as to think Shiori has changed? LOL don’t make me laugh”...okay not an exact quote but you know exactly what I mean). By the end of the series, so many of these smaller conflicts have built up that it’s now possible for the characters to move outside of them. It repeats, but there’s small changes each time that allow for the system to be undone (something something Judith Butler’s theory of performativity something).
And yes, Nanami is her own beast. Pun 100% intended. Her duel episodes follow the format somewhat, but there’s too much else going on with her and her filler episodes and her motivations to fit fully into this model.
So, I guess the tl;dr is: yes, RGU is great at using fight scenes to further other parts of the narrative rather than just having fights for the sake of fights, except in the BRS where these fights seem extraneous, though they do gain importance on subsequent viewings, even if the fights themselves are less important.
Actually, thinking about it (and I do have structures of shounen anime on the brain because of how much I’m itching to start a paper on The Jojos), the “we use violence to solve our problems or as a metaphor for us solving our problems in other ways” structure is very un-shoujo. Sure, shoujo anime (especially mahou shoujo) has fights, but it’s not really the same as how Utena uses fighting. It’s like it’s taking a shounen structure of “things will be better if we punch them enough” and applying it to more typically feminine concerns (interpersonal relationships) and making the violence actually pretty heavily veiled and in the realm of symbolism rather than violence itself (and of course the Freudian implications of deflowing with phallic objects). Then again, most of my experience with shoujo is more slice of life type stuff than monster of the week type magical girl shows, so I could be off base here.
just read through all your posts, loving the analysis!
Oh thank you!
There’s more analysis buried deep within my main blog somewhere, but I’d have to do a lot of tag digging to find it. I’d eventually like to do a liveblog of this series, so I’m glad that people enjoy what I have to say! :D
Of course, if you have any specific questions or anything you want me to talk about, feel free to shoot me an ask :]