Madshirama

Pro SNS Pro BS(Borusara) Anti NH Anti SS Akatsuki Stan

[leportraitducadavre]

Fear and Racism - an analysis of Tobirama’s advocates

During all my years on Tumblr, I’ve found constantly the same argument regarding Tobirama’s views on the Uchiha, and while most (if not all) of his fans tend to justify his behavior over the vastly discussed COH theory that considered them biologically and emotionally unstable and thus, needing the government’s control, many others avid readers tend to defend or understand (at least partially) his views and decisions upon the premise of fear. More specifically, his fear of the Uchiha’s power, a sentiment born and developed during his youth as a member of his clan that lost beloved ones at Uchiha’s hands and was forced to face them in battle.

I will not dwell on the fact that many other (if not all) noble clans composing Konoha also incurred in such duels, and it’s likely that the Senju and other families also fought during the Warring State Era. The Uchiha was the Senju’s primary opposite force, yet not the only one, still, that “fear of insurrection” was solely focused upon a single family instead of a vast group of different people. In that sense, this fact alone disintegrates the argument that Tobirama was “prejudiced” rather than racist, as prejudice refers to a preconceived idea (positive or negative) about a particular person or group not based on prior experience nor knowledge, while racism involves an unequal distribution of power on the basis of ethnicity. The fact that Uchiha was the only clan forced to perform a single job (that limited their political influence and also prevented their complete integration in Konoha), were spied on by ANBU members, and were moved to the outskirts of the city (not by the Nidaime but following the same segregationist policies established by him), are actions performed by two different governments under the guidance of what became a systematized racist political structure.

The policies he made were around his personal racial prejudices as he’s the one and only who created the bureaucratic system of the village (something many of his stans gloat about) that, in itself, makes him racist. Those that state that he was just "prejudiced" conveniently leave aside the segregationist structure he built around his mindset. As someone in a position of power who, as was canonically shown and stated (by Hashirama, Orochimaru, and himself), didn't even bother to check his own prejudices, he's to be held accountable over the simple fact that he was the Hokage in charge of guaranteeing the safety, equity, and equality of those under his command.

[Actually, let’s defend this aspect of his characterization: fear for their power is likely the reason behind him specifically targeting the Uchiha, in fact, I will say that Tobirama’s posture is pretty valid as the Sharingan is canonically far more powerful than any secret technique or another doujutsu kekkei genkai that composes the village presently, therefore it’s logical for him to think that the rest of the families can easily be handled with, however, this defense disputes nothing of what I previously stated]. 

Yet, while fear given his prior experiences is a fair claim as the basis for Tobirama’s bias, it’s also factual for the rest, as Madara (and other Uchiha) also lost relatives at Senju’s hands –in fact, Tobirama is likely more powerful than most Sharingan wielders as he killed Izuna, the second in command. Yet unlike Tobirama, neither Madara nor anyone of his kin performed undisclosed autopsies of deceased Senju members in order to study their biology nor wrote discriminatory and limiting policies based upon their nature. Madara even deflected after learning about his clan’s future inside Konoha’s borders.

[I’ll also brush over the fact that Tobirama’s words about how Madara is viewed negatively by other clan heads, while Hashirama isn’t, therefore calling for a “democratic” election that is never used again, it’s never canonically shown –which only let us with his word,  which we immediately took, like Hashirama, as factual.]

What I will comment on more deeply tho, is the notion of fear and its influence on racist mentalities and behaviors, as many believe that Tobirama’s fear of the Uchiha has nothing to do with his discriminatory mindset, as if “fear for what an ethnicity might do and therefore acting by repressing them in advance” it’s somehow different than racism, that implies a “racial [ethnic, as the term racism is far outdated as there’s only one race that exists with multiple ethnicities] prejudice that guides the individual to perform discriminatory and repressive acts.”

Extreme hatred is almost always based on fear. People may feel threatened by people they view as "different" or "foreign." They may fear losing power. To combat this fear, some people may seek social support from others with similar fears, perpetuating the cycle.

Source

Attitudes of extreme hatred are usually based on fear. They come from primitive survival mechanisms—our instinct to avoid danger—to fear anything that appears to be different, which leads to fear of the other.

“When one race of persons unconsciously feels fear in response to a different race group—fears that their own level of security, importance, or control is being threatened—they will develop these defensive thoughts and behaviors,” says psychologist and political advisor Dr. Reneé Carr. “They will create exaggerated and negative beliefs about the other race to justify their actions in [an] attempt to secure their own safety and survival.”

Source

Irrational fear, particularly of people of color, has shaped the American criminal justice system since the nation's colonial beginnings (...) Many of the propagators of this apartheid trafficked in racist fear-mongering to justify discriminatory treatment of African Americans, warning white America about the inherent criminality and violent propensities of black men.

Source

Fear and Racism are deeply intertwined, such as is Hate and Racism (there’s a reason why xenophobia, which is the fear of strangers or foreigners, it’s often used as a synonym for racism) –Tobirama claimed that the Uchiha were a “clan possessed by evil” (x), despite his studies only confirming that emotions were the primary force behind their chakra activating the Sharingan. At no point did he prove that negative emotions were the sole requirement for their kekkei genkai to activate nor was he able to prove that their feelings commanded their actions as he performed autopsies over (hopefully) dead bodies that clearly had no way to feel a single thing and act upon it; in fact, he wrote the book of shinobi’s rules that forbid people (even non-Uchiha) from showing emotions -yet Hiruzen, the student he trusted the most with his will, as he bestowed upon him the Hokage title, happily exploited such connections amongst his forces. 

Tobirama’s need for control pushed him to create Edo-Tensei (a jutsu that came back to bite him in the ass, but regardless), he controlled powerful deceased shinobi at the expense of other people’s lives –you can say that Tobirama’s primarily driven force was fear yet it easily evolved into a clear necessity of absolute control over both living and dead people as to perform what he thought was righteous. In that sense, his characterization is marvelous, as he’s not above cruelty to perform what he claims is “the greater good”, in fact limiting his vicious tendencies is reducing both his depth as a character inside the story and the complexity and duality of the system he created under such perspective –neither he nor Hashirama were above ruthless acts to carry out their wishes.

To state that he wasn’t racist but rather, a person that acted upon his fear by creating and carrying out segregation policies based upon biology (re-read that phrase again and tell me how that isn’t racism, please) it’s limiting the existence of racism to mere “hatred” sentiments that rest upon the notion of one ethnicity’s superiority (morally, physically or both), which, pardon me, is absolutely nonsensical and paradoxical, as Tobirama was well aware of the Sharingan’s supremacy (in that case, the explanation of his racism would be solely based upon the anger awaken by sentiments of jealousy, yet canonically he never displayed such propensity as even having access to Uchiha corpses he never implanted himself a Sharingan).

[Many POC (particularly males) have to, to this day, fight against racist pre-conceptions that paint them as violent, savage, and blood-lusted individuals, created to install fear amongst the “pure” white citizens in order to push them to seek “government protection against the savages” which, in turn, happily and easily installed discriminatory policies against such communities.]

If you wish, you can say Tobirama’s fear was “rational” as he does have a background of conflict with the Uchiha, yet then you can’t blame the Uchiha for distrusting Tobirama and his successors’ policies as they also possess the same history –yet while Tobirama is, somehow, justified in his apprehension for the Uchiha, that courtesy isn’t extended to that family, who should have trusted blindly Konoha’s system, a bureaucracy which basis are built upon Tobirama’s ethnic prejudice.

And it's even by their own laid-out premises that these advocates fail to specify what exactly ARE Tobirama’s segregationist policies: They were targeted to a single clan and a single clan alone, what is that if not ethnic prejudice? They keep saying is not racism yet fail to convey what it is as if “fear” is enough response when speaking of an individual that built Konoha's entire political structure.

Furthermore, many claim that Tobirama couldn’t be racist as he allowed one Uchiha (Kagami) inside his cell, and both Itachi and Shisui were advocates for Konoha’s government yet:

This denial of the significance of race is a tool that allows the dominant racial group to legitimize the effects of racism under the guise of individual merit. Through this lens, people in positions of power can credit their successes to their own hard work while positioning the disadvantages oppressed racial groups face to personal rather than systemic failures.

The praising and/or awarding of one or few individuals inside a group that suffers from systematic prejudice is not proof of such a community not suffering from such segregation policies, rather, it’s a way to disguise such oppression while selling the idea that individual merit it’s both what matters, and the thing that’s stopping most members of such a family from rising inside Konoha’s political’s sphere. That way the blame is placed upon individual actions rather than the systematic flaws of Konoha’s policies (and the same happens with other characters, such as Naruto, Neji, Kakashi, and so on –as their traumatic experiences and subsequent reactions are blamed upon their individual perspective and not on the bureaucratic structure that is both the cause of the specific events that shaped them and the reason why they don’t have a better support system after such occurrences).

At the same time, Madara was the main motive of Tobirama’s “terror” for the Uchiha yet, after Madara’s death, he continued with his discriminatory policies towards those who shared the same ethnicity as the former leader, despite them willingly turning their back on him when he tried to make them abandon Konoha, pledging their loyalty to their village rather than to their strongest member and leader. Tobirama’s prejudice toward this specific ethnic group (as ethnicities in this manga are marked by the different Kekkei Genkai that exists), a consequence of his fear of a “new Madara rising” (whether it’s based on fear or hate doesn’t deny the fact that these notions were constructed with a racial prejudice still, making the system in itself and Tobirama specifically racist), converged in the systematic oppression that, later on, will push the Uchiha to attempt a coup and their subsequent massacre, a point that I touched upon a little more here. 

In short, denying Tobirama acted upon his fear for the Uchiha is reading his character flatly, I agree, however, maintaining that fear is not one of the main bases for the development of racist mentalities and policies is to simplify both the notion itself and to diminish the gravity of the segregationist practices that result from this perspective. 

[loid7man]

I agree with the post but the tags saying anti itachi and anti kagami make no sense bc the only thing we know abt Kagami is he had the will of fire. We don't know if Kagami was at odds with his clan or if he was okay with them. The thing abt itachi haters is that they blame for the entire Uchiha massacre(at least most of it) eventhough Itachi was 12-14 yrs old when it happened(a damn child). Itachi was a child, a smart child but still a child so Itachi haters are blaming a child for adult problems. Itachi also didn't hate his clan infact he didn't want to kill them. Fugaku, Danzo, and all the adults around him were using him

[gakkubi]

Ame Trio's Personalities: Yahiko

I want to share some thoughts on the Ame Trio/Ame Orphans because I do think they have one of the most complex, interesting and beautiful arcs in the Narutoverse.

I will discuss their personalities and thoughts. This post is about Yahiko, there are also Nagato and Konan.

(1/3): I'll start with Yahiko because he's the one who dies first and influences the others' personalities.

YAHIKO:

Also available in Russian: ссылка на русский перевод

Although Yahiko is arguably the character who appears “less” among the Ame Trio - naturally, for dying first - he takes up significant part of the flashbacks he appears in. Jiraiya, Nagato, Konan; even in Obito’s memory of the Ame Trio - which serve the plot purpose of showing how Obito started manipulating Nagato - he spends most of the flashback interacting with Yahiko. Yahiko was extremely remarkable to all the people who met him, there is no doubt that Kishimoto took every opportunity he had to tell us he was a very important character.

Something I find very interesting about Yahiko is how easily he could be a villain; he has many of the personality traits of of classical villains. This is not accidental - in Chapter 372, when Jiraiya finds and confronts Konan, his memories of the Ame Orphans lead him to believe Yahiko was the one who first turned evil (in their conversation, Konan never clearly explains whose ideology they have embraced; it’s very implied Jiraiya was inclined to believe that was Yahiko).

This is built purposefully to confuse the audience regarding Pain’s identity as the one who possesses the rinnegan is Nagato; one has the “villainous” personality, the other has the power.

Of course, we all know Yahiko is not a villain, even though he could easily be. Yahiko’s most powerful personality trait is his ambition; this trait is the one that will always surpass the others.

Yahiko is a survivor; we are shown repeatedly that he would do just about anything to to keep alive (and Nagato and Konan with him). We are shown some of his big and most drastic actions like stealing, but minor details like cooking, gathering supplies and stabilising a house for him and Konan - taking from the story and Nagato’s conversation with Jiraiya, it’s safe to assume Yahiko was the mastermind behind all the actions that allowed them to survive as children. Yahiko knew they needed power to survive, and we’re shown in the anime their journey to find Jiraiya and how he quickly learned to navigate in the warzone by being able to put himself in the shoes of his “enemies” and think like they did. Yahiko always had an extremely clear sense of what he wants and how to get there.

He is also a natural leader; we can’t say for sure how much of his leadership is actually his nature and how much it comes from needing to step up as the leader of the trio, given how Nagato and Konan have more passive personalities. The fact is, by the time Yahiko dies, he has been acting as a leader for more than half os his life; giving orders and being in control is his comfort zone. He will have control and boss others even if they don’t agree with him, which is clearly stated when he tells Konan he believes Nagato is the one who will bring peace; he put Nagato in that position regardless of Nagato’s opinions - Konan will support Nagato and not him, regardless who she thinks is the “bridge to peace” (Chapter 509).

In that particular flashback of Jiraiya, there are two classically villainous traits shown: the first is anger; it’s implied that Yahiko is a kid full of anger and hate, but in fact, he is a very emotional and sensitive person - in that, he is very similar to Nagato - although unlike him, Yahiko will almost always express his feelings. He’s angry because he’s in pain and won’t conform to his fate as a victim of a poor country. The second one is both his ambition and megalomania: He will change the country, no matter the lenghts he has to go through.

Another strong trait of Yahiko’s thought process is that ends justify the means. This is proven by many of his actions; to survive, he will steal; to defend others, he will put his own life at risk - the ultimate proof of this is sacrificing his life to save Nagato and Konan from Hanzo. They are the ones who must survive no matter what; no matter if he dies. Although the famous “the end justify the means” sentence is usually associated with Machiavellianism, Yahiko doesn’t display the other traits needed such as manipulativeness and indifference to morality to classify him as a machiavellian person.

Yahiko could easily become a “villain”; he has unbreakable ambition and he’s willing to go to extreme lengths to get what he wants regardless of the opinion of those around him. I could easily say just about the very same about Obito, Madara and Orochimaru with a few changes here and there; I could even describe adult Nagato like that.

Seeing this particular scene in Jiraiya's memory, his ambition and anger and a "well-intentioned world-domination" goal are enough to convince the reader to believe Yahiko is Pain, even before seeing his appearance. It's notable that Nagato doesn't reply anything while Yahiko is screaming at him, highlighting his more passive personality.

You, reader, must be rather shocked at what I'm saying, because Yahiko is the only one who was never evil among the three of them; in fact, the others turned evil because of his absence. Yahiko is such a special character because he was all those classically villainous traits, the key to his character lies in why he never turns evil despite all of that.

Ambition is the trait that will rule above all; but his vision comes second in command. We are shown Yahiko is a very sensitive child, he cries a lot, he's easy to anger because he's overwhelmed by the situation he finds himself in. In the same flashback that gives the audience all the reason to believe Yahiko could be Pain, Yahiko himself admits inflicting pain on others wouldn't work as a solution.

The very fact that Yahiko wanted help from the very people who were destroying his country and were directly or indirectly responsible for him being an orphan (that is, foreigners) shows how the end goal was more important to him than the mean of how to get there; Nagato's initial distrust was the feeling most people would have in their situation, which shows another difference between their thought process; Nagato holds grudges (he could accept Jiraiya individually, but not Konoha, and he couldn't ever get over his parents or Yahiko's death) whereas Yahiko doesn't ever let any past event, situation or prejudice come between him and the goal he wants to achieve.

But ambition, vision and idealism (which I have not mentioned yet) are all traits he also shares with villains.

What makes Yahiko different from other villains, especially Nagato, is that he develops an amazing emotional intelligence to deal with the information his sensitivity gathers from the world.

Yahiko was extremely hopeful, positive and emotionally intelligent, all characteristics he shares with other heroes like Naruto. Throughout his life, the "classically villainous" characteristics of his childhood were outgrown by the "classically heroic" traits that gained strength overtime. Yahiko walked away from the evil path he could have easily taken by confronting his "villainous" traits.

It was through the use of emotional intelligence that Yahiko dismantled the initial megalomania and revengfullness he displays in both Jiraiya's and Nagato's childhood flashbacks. It's important to highlight that Yahiko's "Savior Complex" was something that stayed with Nagato long after Yahiko no longer believed only a single powerful person could force peace upon others. Yahiko "grew out" of his childish megalomania - Nagato did the very opposite when absorbing many of Yahiko's characteristics after his death.

His emotional intelligence can be clearly seen in Obito's memories of him in Chapter 607; in that same instance Yahiko was one of the few characters to rule out the idea of the masked man being Madara. Yahiko was not especially powerful or intelligent, so he rellied heavily in taking accurate conclusions from his observations of the world.

Another sign of Yahiko's emotional intelligence is his mirroring of Jiraiya's behavior - although it may be first seen as something done just for comedy, it shows how Yahiko was eager to understand other people - mirroring is a display of empathy. The natural inclination he had to understand other people led Yahiko to develop his peaceful philosophy, and was also used for him to gather allies (as shown in the anime).

It was both his emotional intelligence and his vision that kept him from becoming arrogant (and doing things like stealing Nagato's rinnegan to himself, as Jiraiya considered plausible). Whereas villains will usually harvest power for themselves, Yahiko knew that the key to the success of his plans didn't depend solely on him and his actions. He had to support others and believe in them. Understanding the value in community and extreme loyalty was a value Yahiko and Konan shared - a value Nagato also had, which was eventually displaced by other traits. It's important to note how Nagato and Konan perceive their memories of Yahiko differently; of course their flashbacks serve plot purposes, but they also show completely different aspects of his personality, and these differences in perception reflect the own values of Konan and Nagato.

Although his ambition, energy and protectiveness are displayed in both of their memories, other characteristics vary in intensity.

In Konan's memories, Yahiko is much more kind and calm, happy but also introspective. In her childhood memories, he appears more joyful and carefree - as an adult, it's shown how he is hurt by the war, how understanding has made him kind and and how he wants to protect his comrades both physically and mentally. In Nagato's memories, he appears much more angry and harsh in comparison - the anime even takes an effort to "soften" some of his actions; in the anime Yahiko gives back some of the stealing and also prays for Chibi in his death (instead of just scolding Nagato for crying and mourning as he does in the manga).

I don't know how manga to anime adaptations work but it's possible that, due to the difference in pace between manga and anime, Studio Pierrot realized Yahiko would come across much more "evil" if he wasn't softened - and I like the adaptations because it makes Nagato's memories less different than Konan's; all they did was add moments foreshadowing a much kinder personality Yahiko would display on the chapters later on.

(Edit: I added this image from chapter 509 to better illustrate Yahiko's emotional intelligence using an actual canon moment where Yahiko himself reflects on his past feelings and how they changed as he grew up. I really like this chapter, and I think it's nice how soft and caring Yahiko behaves towards Nagato in Konan's flashbacks, worrying about his injuries and telling that "it's ok" and encouraging him to rest, as opposed to Nagato's own flashbacks that show younger Yahiko screaming and scolding him for behaving like a "crybaby" and "victim" while they were all struggling to survive. I think it's important to consider the scenarios of those flashbacks; Nagato's flashbacks find the characters all recently traumatized, while Konan's find them in a much more stable and safe period of their lives).

Yahiko was the first among the three to understand that the pursuit of "justice" would only result in more conflict as one's noble justice could be seen as mere acts of vengeance by another. All the Ame Orphans knew in their lives was war, suffering and trauma, so the decision to pursue a different path away from violence could only come from a person who could look inside their own heart without the fear of seeing ugly things and confront their feelings.

Yahiko's unshakable hope on his dream of bringing peace was a result of his ambition, his vision and emotional intelligence. His sensitivity led him to become a kind, caring person, who avoided violence as much as he could. We know he was extremely loyal to his ideals, preferring to sacrifice himself and die instead of giving up the peaceful philosophy he had established for the Akatsuki to fight Hanzo. The extreme loyalty and the will to sacrifice anything for that was another trait he shared with Konan.

Although I consider Yahiko's vision to be one of the pillars in his personality, he was also extremely naïve. Yahiko's hopefulness and faith in his dreams and plans were not countered by opposite personality traits like being cynical or hesitant. The first time we see Yahiko being naïve was at the very idea of approaching the Sannin and begging for training, which could have easily ended with them all killed (or, more likely, just ignored). Unfortunately for Yahiko, his biggest flaw was not putting limits to how much he believed his ideals, leading him to fall in a trap he could have easily avoided - I left this trait for last because the anime makes Yahiko's willingness to believe Hanzo a key reason for falling on his trap, even though the manga never shows evidence for that and only implies Yahiko's innocence by Nagato's perception of them being "still children." However, I still think it's fitting for someone who displayed early signs of megalomania to have such naïvety.

Other traits that were not mentioned are less about his ideals and more about his nature; Yahiko is also naturally expansive, friendly and unafraid- these traits help him to become both the trio and Akatsuki's leader. In Chapter 509 Konan mentions he was adored by the rest of the Akatsuki, and it's very implied in the manga (and shown in anime fillers) he lead the Akatsuki with a egalitarian philosophy, not abusing his positon as leader through authority, which is another important trait of his personality; Yahiko may be bossy and unreceptive to challenges on his orders, but he is not comfortable with hierarchy and the idea of some people acting as if they were better than others.

I won't talk much about Yahiko and Konan's romance as I don't believe "being in love" can be a part of someones personality, and I don't believe his decision to kill himself to save her and Nagato was influenced by being in love. His decision to sacrifice himself comes directly from his “ends justifying the means” logic, even if in that particular case the survival of Nagato and Konan is the end which can be justified by the loss of his own life.

I do believe, though, that there are many reasons why they could be attracted to each other and I'll highlight specially their loyalty. Yahiko and Konan are both extremely loyal people; Yahiko is loyal to his ideals, Konan is loyal to what she considers "her own'' - her friends, her people. They are also people who are full of faith in the things they believe in; we are never shown Yahiko having doubts on his plans, as well as we never see Konan ever doubting the capability of the people she supports. People who share such characteristics of loyalty and faith will find great comfort in each other, creating a positive circle of both giving and receiving love and support.

Yahiko's expansive and dominant personality, as well as his positivity and hopefulness contrast immensely with Konan and Nagato's passiveness and melancholy. He is shown to be a person who could deal with his pain and his traumas, and was likely the biggest emotional support of the other two; as he himself said, he had hopes and dreams, his dreams became Nagato and Konan's dreams. His death left an immense void that could not be filled with positive, healthy thoughts and feelings, as Nagato and Konan always relied on his hopeful ideals.

The very traits that could have easily made him a villain are the same ones which lead him to achieve his and the trio's survival. Yahiko's personality exists in a delicate ballance between many "classically villainous" traits and the abundance of other solid "classically heroic" foundations.

By taking a complete look at his character it's easy to understand why his death was something really, near-impossible to recover from given the circumstances, and why the love and respect they felt endured so long after his death.

[loid7man]

Iuv this analysis so much, I know why I enjoyed Yahiko so much.

[sasukebelieves]

Sarada just because I’m your father doesn’t mean i’m going to read you a fucking story so you can sleep you’re fucking six years old jesus christ grow up and leave me alone. can’t you see i’m cooking applesauce for boruto so he can have something to eat while i do a little play for him, you insolent fool?

[loid7man]

Sasuke be like:

[kakooshi]

Obito using Kakashi’s hand for his jutsu is more clever than I realized because honestly, how do you keep the Copycat Ninja from copying you? If you’re stuck gripping both of his hands, form the seal with one of them, then kick him in the face not just to disorient him but to keep him from completing the jutsu that he could technically perform as well. Obito thought all of this in 5 seconds. King shit.

[kisamehoshigaki]

you can even see his thought process

that shit-eating grin??? he’s so proud of hmself

[kakooshi]

As he should! It’s fascinating how crazed Obito looks in his determination but he still knows how far he’s come and what he’s capable of. I think it’s cathartic for him to face Kakashi like this, especially when prior to the Kannabi Bridge mission, the guy used to call him useless, a crybaby, etc. This could be why this fight is so personal on his part too. He’s letting Kakashi know that he’s not that boy anymore.

Also, the line “Let me borrow this?” Wow, Obito really said that to the person he gave his own fucking Sharingan eye to, he’s that BITCH. My man isn’t an S-rank war criminal for nothing.

[loid7man]

I LOVE MY S-RANK CRIMINAL

[jrugs]

[loid7man]

That was so unsanitary but that's some KING SHIT

[jesseevelann]

Madara gets mad at himself for not being able to get impregnated by Hashirama

[peekintoeternity]

and that's why he took Obito & made him their unholy Hashimada gayby 😌

but seriously- *puts tinfoil hat on* Obito was likely Madara's direct descendant because he looked almost exactly like him: when he grows out his hair it's identical to Madara's (meanwhile Itachi & Fugaku's look nothing like it, and Sasuke's only looks like Izuna's); Madara also trained Obito to the point that he trusted him to assume his identity and use his name (Madara Jr., anyone?)

and of course, Madara literally made Obito half-Hashirama (though it's a mix of Hashirama's cells & White Zetsu too)

also, Madara probably chose Obito because of how much he reminded him of Hashirama: what with Obito's bright personality and dreams (to become Hokage to end the war, which parallels Hashirama's own to create Konoha to end the wars between the clans)

aaand that's how Kishi made Hashimada have a canon DIY lovechild, thank you for coming to my not-at-all-unhinged Ted Talk 😌

[jesseevelann]

Obito is actually Madara's direct descendant. And just to add to the dumpster fire...

Madara: I've been waiting for you... HASHIRAMA!!!

Hashirama: I'll deal with you la-

Madara: Ahahah, no. Meet your son, Hashirama :)

Hashirama: Son...?

Obito: ... Gramps forgot to take his meds again.

Madara: He's got most of my features, but has your cells, so he's our son!

Hashirama: ... Tobirama you were right-

Tobirama: DAMN RIGHT I WAS. A WHOLE WAR JUST SO YOU COULD MEET SOME KID THAT ISN'T EVEN YOURS.

Obito: Listen, Tobroskirama, don't make this out to be my fault-

[loid7man]

Madara: I've been waiting for my child support... HASHIRAMA!!!

[afronaruto]

i think the reason that people so easily overlook how like… absolutely crazy and repressed naruto is is because he’s so emotional and open about everything else. he’s really a character that wears his heart on his sleeve, so its easy to take him at face value esp since naruto’s talk no jutsu is jus the sum of him being hyper empathetic with like everyone he meets but like… the fact that naruto can feel so much but always for other people and never himself is kind of the point? he spends so much time being upset over sasuke and other people and events in the series but we very rarely see him apply any of that empathy towards himself. even at the waterfalls of truth, when faced with his own irritation and anger towards the village he doesn’t like… really acknowledge or work through any of it. “dark” naruto is like yeah you were abused and neglected and shunned your entire life and now people wanna treat you like a hero despite always hating you? because you were willing to die for them? and you’re jus ok with that? and naruto’s like “yes. bcoz i will b hokage :D” and then he hugs himself and pushes all that shit deep deep down LOL… it’s so crazy because naruto will get pissed over how gaara was treated, he’ll get pissed over sasuke, he went absolutely fucking insane at orochimaru for just TALKING about sasuke in a way he didn’t like, but as soon as it’s about himself he’s so docile!

like. he’s fucking crazy. sasuke gets perceived as more mentally ill and traumatized because sasuke is like… open and aware of how wrong his situation is like he KNOWS its all fucked up and he’s not okay with it and people take what are….. pretty reasonable responses to unreasonable situations sasuke’s placed in as like inane or ridiculous. meanwhile naruto jus spends all his time feeling and emoting for other people and actively shoving his own hurt and trauma down because that’s what he thinks a hero is supposed to be, and he’s afraid that if he lashes out he’ll be shunned again. and it’s not the sort of thing where naruto will be sad for himself when he’s alone and he’s putting on a performance for other people, naruto is like always actively desperately trying to tell himself that he’s okay and it’s fine that he was treated like trash because everyone likes him now. and everyone around him encourages it and holds him up as a hero and like some beacon of goodness because it benefits them for naruto to never hold anyone accountable for his suffering.

like!!!! the way naruto talks about his childhood sucks, he always talks about it so abstractly and vaguely like it wasn’t anyone’s fault that he was shunned and isolated from everyone around him, that’s jus the way things had to be and yay!!! he overcame it!!!! :D!!!! he’s not hurting anymore because friendship!!!!! like long story short naruto won’t even acknowledge that he’s still in pain and that how he was treated was wrong and there needs to be some responsibility taken by the people who apparently adore him, and that’s why im beating everyone in konoha over the head with a real big rock and dragging naruto to therapy thank u 

[loid7man]

I'm dragging everyone to ninja therapy(expect you Sakura you don't have much trauma)

[naruto-general-opinions]

I get a lot of confessions about Kabuto’s powerful arse with it’s knock-back effect.

[loid7man]

I'm sorry, Kabuto grazed Sakura with his ass!?Damn Kabuto got big booty

[lostinwoods]

Those who draw parallels between Mito and Sakura.

The sheer disrespect!

[loid7man]

First, Kushina now Mito.

Leave Mito and Kushina alone

[loid7man]

r/narutomemes - I’m back back again not here to stay maybe

559 votes and 1 comment so far on Reddit

Naruto characters as Vines

[naruto-general-opinions]

[loid7man]

Queen Karui

I love my feisty princess 😊

[sneezemonster15]

Did you see the new art from Boruto team? I know it is not canon but Anime team laughs at SS in this art. Sasuke looks there so angry, disgust and not happy when Sakura tries to feed him. SS now scream that he is shy, he chews food (wrong because three pieces of food has been taken from Sakura’s cart, one has Sakura on her plate, second has Sarada and with third Sakura tries to feed Sasuke) or he opens his mouth, yeah sure with grimace face... But what I have noticed is that Sakura and Sasuke are so far away from the others. Typical behaviour from Sakura to keep Sasuke for herself and what’s more Sasuke didn’t want to eat because his plate and cup is empty not like with Sakura and Sarada’s case. Sakura was serving the food and drink because she always does it in canon so he had to say no but she can’t take no so she tries to feed him. I also thought maybe she did it on purpose not to serve him food on his plate just to feed him herself like she did in gaiden with the kiss but the empty cup says sth different, he just said no to her food and drink. SS were so happy with this art but now they changed Sasuke’s lips so he looks normal xd I can’t with them, what is your opinion about this art? Why anime team do sth like that? They would have draw Sasuke with a normal face but they chose to make him so angry.

Hey.

What I noticed is that none of the other couples is facing each other, rather they are involved in the picnic or whatever this is. They are celebrating with the group, or they are just enjoying themselves. Sakura and Sasuke are the only couple where one spouse is seen as interacting solely with the other, ignoring everyone else, ie, Sakura trying to act cutesy with Sasuke, where Sasuke looks his usual self when he is with Sakura, distressed and disinterested. This is pretty consistent with so many other times in canon when she acts the same way with Sasuke, blushing or looking cheesy cute. Sasuke is also being his consistent self with her, entirely disinterested and dejected. Sakura is also sitting right between the boys.

Damn, I feel so bad for the poor man. No matter how much he tries, he just can't shake loose that woman he treats like a bacterial infection he desperately wants to get rid of. If there were a medal for being annoying and exhausting, Sakura would have gotten at least twenty already. What a pest.

Look at Ino, enjoying herself. Look at Karin, spurned by Sasuke, chugging on her drink like her life depends on it, Karui, Temari and even Hinata serving food or being busy with others. But Sakura is like a 'girl forever in love', as coined by Ino, like a blushing bride, who was never able to cross over the initial stages of her infatuation and obsession with Sasuke. Sasuke wouldn't let her close, and she won't quit.

Now this art isn't canon, but the anime team wouldn't stray so far from the canon characterization, so as to blatantly go against Kishimoto's portrayal of his characters, he is the creator after all. Kishimoto has consistently portrayed Sakura as being crazy addicted, in a bad way, to Sasuke despite his lack of reciprocation, Kishi has said it out loud multiple times in his interviews, he has laughed at her, mocked her. The anime team would of course pick up on that, heh.

But look at Juugo man. So zen, like he ain't even there, being openly asocial. Zero fucks given. I feel ya Juugo, I feel ya.

[loid7man]

Sasuke please divorce papers urgently(you too Naruto) you're being held hostage

[zxxalta]

Just a reminder that Sakura is not an Uchiha

[loid7man]

My blood boils every time I hear 'Sakura Uchiha'. You don't hear Kushina Namikaze, Temari Nara, Kurenai Sarutobi, Hinata Uzumaki, or Mito Senju

[peekintoeternity]

Why Obito?

Among many possible plot holes mysteries in Narutoverse, an interesting one is Madara's choice of apprentice: in a clan of elites and prodigies, for the completion of his singular life's goal, Madara chose... the black sheep.

Naruto: Shippūden - Episode #119

So, seriously, why Obito?

aka unhinged barely-coherent ramblings brought to you by @al-hekima's request :')

part 1: wtf old man you made no sense

Now, even though Madara himself has answered this question, he only engaged with it on a very superficial level, that is, he stated that he chose Obito because of his "deep love"—but why would this be a good reason?

Just because great love can be corrupted into great hate?

Naruto - Chapter #675

If only Madara wasn't a character marked by his manipulative ways and (poetically ironic) self-deception and (just a touch of) "madness"-

If only we refuse to assign him more depth & complexity (perhaps more even than the creators intended?)-

If only Madara wasn't revealed to have been so isolated and paranoid and lost in regret that he got conned by a strange lifeform claiming to be his own will...

Then, maybe, it'd be easy to take Madara at his word: Obito was his ideal pawn because he loved deeply, and love evolves into hatred, like a goshdarn Pokémon!

...except human ideals and sentiment (and bonds and emotional attachments) aren't so simple. Love doesn't always transform to hate, if ever, even when tainted—and certainly not so easily.

(Anddd let's not even get into the whole racist Uchiha biological determinism propaganda—courtesy of Tobirama—aka Curse of Hatred & "uCHihAz R oVeR-sEnSitiVe", etc.)

Just look at Sasuke.

Sure, he had grown to love his teammates (even almost dying for Naruto), but he didn't seem to particularly love his village, least of all in a brainwashed-by-state-propaganda kinda way...

(Ahem, hello, Uchiha "I'm gonna become Hokage and stop the war" Obito!)

Naruto - Chapter #653

Sasuke never was a crybaby, nor so soft-hearted that he couldn't stop himself from helping every elder he came across—to the point of being chronically late.

He never had a childhood friend with whom he shared true companionship and who was his whole support system (though his team was probably on the way to becoming a healthier version of that)—whom he simply couldn't lose.

And certainly, his whole mission in life wasn't to become Hokage and end the war for the sake of not only his loved ones, but also his village—even, as Madara said, all shinobi.

(Madara be like: Hashirama, is that you?)

All in all, Sasuke never exhibited what Madara would call "deep love" for the people around him, which Madara saw in Obito.

And yet, Sasuke grew to hate Konoha so strongly, he vowed to destroy it entirely.

(That Sasuke is a victim of the fucked up system and his "hatred" should actually be understood as, at least in part, righteous and justified anger—is a whole other topic.)

Naruto - Chapter #416

At the peak of it, Sasuke's hatred might have even surpassed Madara's himself; and it certainly eclipsed that of Obito, who never touched Konoha after the Kyūbi attack.

If one were to cite his "pact" with Itachi, well, many have rightly concluded that Obito was never really threatened by Itachi, whom he could easily eliminate—not least because Itachi was growing blind and succumbing to Ninja AIDS his mysterious lethal illness. Even if Obito were weaker, well, all he had to do was sic the entire Akatsuki on Itachi. (Deidara would have been delighted!) So, clearly, Itachi's pact is sadly inconsequential. Obito could've, and would've, destroyed Konoha—if he really wanted to.

In other words: this devotion & kindness that Madara cited are actually bad indicators for "who could grow to harbor the greatest hate", and Madara, on some level, should know this.

After all, Izuna—moreso than Madara, who'd even foregone vengeance on Tobirama for killing his beloved brother—held the most hate/distrust toward the Senju, and clearly he was more similar to Sasuke (as canon itself indicated via Hashirama's words) than to Naruto or Hashirama, let alone "crybaby" Obito.

Hence, our little thesis: there is another reason, the real reason, that Madara chose the boy who loved deeply.

(and as a quasi-outline, here I lazily quote the tags that started the convo lol)

real bruh moment from madara like hmmm mr warlord-

is it perhaps some unresolved issues/trauma

leading you to *choose obito* not for his talent/potential but... his love

has it not occurred to you that maybe- just maaaybe- this is your subconscious' desperate call for help (read: a therapist)?

your soul unwittingly yearning for an escape from the bitter unending road to the infinite tsukuyomi

on which you're shepherded by black zetsu- a thing that claims to be your own will

but only demands of you & never works for your happiness?

(​moment of silence for our fallen uchiha grim reaper)

like do yall ever think if madara never put a cursed seal on obito's heart

he might've been able to help madara and free him from bz

fr it really makes no sense for madara to choose a latebloomer like obito (black sheep?) when he could've picked literally any uchiha kid

i meannn genius shisui who *already had a mangekyo* at age 6-8... was RIGHT THERE

shisui got MS *during* the third war so even if the MS was after obito's rock moment-

shisui's sharingan had to have already matured (awakened up to 3 tomoe) BEFORE obito awakened his *base* sharingan

and i bet there were other unnamed uchiha kids- even orphans- who would've been a better apprentice for madara

madara & zetsu had no idea about kamui and could never have guessed so rly obito should've just been clearly shitty investment

and YET zetsu verbatim stated madara *chose* obito

even the ''obito is madara's direct descendant'' interpretation alone doesn't fully excuse this seemingly bad/risky call of madara's

so what if madara chose obito because- after watching all these random kids in the uchiha compound- he saw that nice loving kid and thought

deep down- without even admitting it to himself- without even *understanding* the pull he felt from this loser crybaby slowlearner kid-

"maybe this kid could save me"

part 2: so wait wdym "choose obito" (or: what zero pussupport system does to a mf)

First, let's note that Madara willingly and knowingly made the choice to pick Obito to be his "apprentice" / the next Madara.

Since Zetsu is the one cognizant of Madara's true intentions, their thoughts hold more weight than Madara's own words to Obito, who was his target for manipulation.

So when Madara said he "accidentally" found Obito because the cave-in (oh so conveniently) happened right on top of one of his secret underground passageways, while Zetsu said Madara chose Obito, we can safely conclude Zetsu isn't the one withholding truth here.

Naruto - Chapter #605

Next, let's consider the gravity of this role—especially for Madara—which many (including myself at first) have missed or failed to seriously ponder.

Sure, many have called Madara an "asshole" for turning on Obito and using him for Rinne Rebirth after Obito emerged heartlessly (sorry) from Kamui-

Sure, one could argue this adds to his characterization as a one-dimensional sociopathic villain who doesn't care about anyone or anything other than himself; his goals and quest for power-

Sure, many think Madara never regretted any of the damages he'd done, only that causing said damages still didn't get him what he wanted-

But didn't canon itself disprove this; through Itachi's false accounts of Madara stealing his brother's eyes in his blind (no pun intended) grasping for power—and how both Obito & Hashirama's accounts flip that idea on its head?

And maybe this is just me reading too much into this, but since it adds depth to a major character who (in popular fanon) lacks it, I'll go right ahead and conclude:

Through the reveal of Izuna's "gift" (rather than Madara's theft), i.e. the narrative evidence of Madara's love for his brother, which Hashirama said exceeded that of Itachi's for Sasuke, the text was drawing a clear parallel between Madara and Itachi on a level beyond that of "being a protective older brother":

Madara isn't a one-dimensional villain; he is a character meant to be misunderstood as a one-dimensional villain.

After all, his entire "descent" hinges on his loss of Izuna (read: his failure to protect his last & dearest brother) and his disappointment in Hashirama & Konoha (read: his failure to protect his brethren).

Naruto - Chapter #625

It's no wonder Madara reacted the way he did when Hashirama offered him the position of Hokage.

He saw himself as a failure—not that he would ever admit it. He fell in love with the idea of a world of dreams precisely because reality left him with nothing but pain and loss. It forced him to confront the idea that he, Uchiha Madara, the strongest alongside the God of Shinobi, in a world that (falsely) taught him power would grant you everything... He, Uchiha Madara, was still helpless to prevent tragedies from befalling his brother; from encroaching upon his clan.

To say Madara knew no regrets is to call blood devoid of red.

All of this is easy to miss, since only Hashirama ever got to see even glimpses of Madara's "weakness" (read: humanity). It's highly unlikely he would show that side of himself to anyone except one he trusted so like Hashirama and, certainly, Izuna (and maybe to a lesser extent, Obito; in genjutsu conversations they may have had "off-screen").

It would actually be strange and out of character for him to ever explicitly exhibit any of this in the text, just for the readers' benefit; especially since it would have had nothing to do with the plot or progressing it.

It just makes sense that, in an era where power (read: cruelty) meant everything, Madara would learn quickly to hide any vulnerabilities and purposely paint himself as something that detached or careless observers would see as a "one-dimensional villain".

Naruto - Chapter #398

And that's why Obito and the role he was chosen to fill—its sheer existence—is so important to assigning more depth to understanding Madara. It's the single biggest evidence for (post-Black-Zetsu) Madara's humanity.

After all, if Obito (the apprentice) was really meant to be nothing more than a disposable tool, why didn't Madara just use Nagato? Might as well get a 2-for-1 deal.

Orphaned Nagato would've been just as easily manipulated as kid Obito. And at worst, Madara could've mindfucked him with indoctrination or genjutsu (psychological shenanigans or sharingan shenanigans) or both. Could've even sicced him with a cursed seal—just like Obito.

If he had the chance to discreetly implant the Rinnegan into Nagato without anyone noticing, then he must've had the chance to abduct the boy.

So why the need for Obito, a second Madara?

Here Madara's humanity bleeds through.

(Anddd so we dive into straight-up headcanon nonsense-)

While it's less likely, perhaps in some small way, Madara didn't wish to get up close and personal with a child who would one day be sacrificed for his own revival, and get accidentally attached; hence leaving the "dirty work" to his apprentice. (Note that Madara never revealed himself to Nagato at all.)

(It would fit @al-hekima's interpretation of Madara & Izuna's dynamic too: Izuna is the one who's actually better with the "dirty work" compared to his clan-head/commander older brother, mirroring the dynamic of Hashirama & Tobirama.)

Most likely, though, after all those decades alone in that damn cave... well, Obito's date of birth should've already spoiled it:

Naruto - Chapter #386 + #612

Madara wanted—needed—someone to stand beside him: a stand-in for Izuna (and perhaps, in his wildest dreams, where lived on their ideal selves free of hatred & reality's corrosive claws... Hashirama).

But wait, wasn't Obito just another sacrificial pawn to Madara, no different from Nagato?

Welp, let's review the circumstances of Madara's using Obito as a "sacrifice":

FACT 1: The plan was always to use Nagato for Rinne Rebirth. (damn Anti-Uzumaki discr-)

FACT 2: Since Obito lost them Nagato (and presumably not just anyone can be forced to perform Rinne Rebirth using Black Zetsu), Madara's only option was to use Obito, or... forsake his one, true dream.

FACT 3 (conclusion): Obito—the apprentice—was never meant to be sacrificed.

If Nagato weren't already dead, Madara would've never "sacrificed" the apprentice.

(It's also worth noting that Obito was the one to first declare to Madara that they weren't comrades.)

Let's imagine Madara's ideal scenario—where Nagato lives (only to be sacrificed for Madara), Obito never betrays Madara, and... they "win".

Where would Obito be then?

Here the true nature of the vacancy Obito filled is revealed.

(For Obito, it's just another way to be used as a tool, of course; but this betrays something about Madara: something achingly, dearly human-)

The role of the apprentice that Madara sought and didn't consider Nagato for—that of the second Madara—was to not be sacrificed (hence Nagato was not an option) nor serve as a disposable tool (though they'd be a nice back-up for a worst-case scenario); it was to stand by Madara.

Of course, Madara (by that point) had been so unable to trust anyone (read: twisted by Black Zetsu), and so placed a cursed seal on the heart of his apprentice / surrogate brother / enforced support system.

Even so, it's curious that he seemingly didn't turn the chosen child (Obito) into a completely helpless puppet, or completely mindwash them with genjutsu (since Obito was at least able to refuse to revive Madara) or use a jutsu like Orochimaru's Fushi Tensei—yet another thing that could only point toward "the second Madara" being a role borne of Madara's subliminal need for companionship: a quasi-brother, a fellow warrior he could respect and rely on, and heck, a comrade to make his eventual victory feel not-so-hollow; so he wouldn't have to stand alone the day he achieved his "true dream"... someone controllable enough not to mess up the plan or "take Madara's back" as he always feared, but nonetheless human.

When Obito "rejected" this role by denying Madara his comradeship, it likely wounded more than just Madara's pride (though he probably never realized it), and his attitude slowly shifts from before vs after this proclamation:

Where before he was almost giddy ("you're like a kid"), excited for battle; addressing Obito in attempts at banter ("you look like you're having fun"); and almost in denial about the signs that Obito betrayed him or strayed from the plan...

Naruto - Chapter #601

...he switched to heartlessly objectifying (and not in the sexy way) the heartless Obito (sorry - reprise) and stating (out loud, anyways) that he was a mere "back-up".

Still, all this sounds like a flimsy cover-up (do we dare say lies?) for the sting of rejection by the closest person he had left to a brother/comrade—which must've been a painful reminder of Izuna's glaring absence—and the real reason he waited decades for someone to entrust the plan & even his own name to... something he couldn't fix or defeat or perhaps even confront—for all his "god-like" powers, and for all that it is so disgustingly pedestrian: loneliness.

(And how dear is it to imagine Madara in his cave, picturing the day of his glorious "victory", when he sends mankind to the perfect, eternal dreamworld... only to taste bitterness, as he saw himself standing on top of the world, all alone?)

[peekintoeternity]

ADDENDUM:

Naruto - Chapter #560

"What's he got in mind? Things don't look as if they're going as he'd planned."

Naruto - Chapter #601

"Well, knowing you... I'm sure you have something in mind..."

Note that Madara offers these excuses rationalizations in defense of Obito's loyalty and/or competence himself, apropos of any explanation from Obito.

Naruto - Chapter #600

"Looks like you're having fun here... Obito..."

Naruto - Chapter #601

Note that Obito's response not only ignores Madara's attempt to "talk shop" aka banter about (the fun of) combat and share intel on their opponents (powers & weaknesses, shorthands for strategies, etc.)—

—but also neglects to reassure Madara of the changes to their plans; e.g. why he was revived with Edo Tensei, or why they were at war at all.

(It wasn't originally part of the plan, so understandably, Madara was puzzled upon learning of the war & alliance from Mū / Kabuto.)

Heck, Obito never even answered Madara as to where the real Naruto was. (Since the one in front of them had been a shadow clone.)

Naruto - Chapter #608

Note that Madara (again) addressed Obito in what seemed to be attempts to re-establish or develop a connection:

"These guys are a distraction for you too, right?"

"...enjoy what little time we've got left..."

For someone like Madara, this was perhaps the closest he would ever come to showing or extending warmth, camaraderie, even respect.

(The fact that he even acknowledged someone, let alone initiated contact or conversation, all in non-hostile ways, is noteworthy in itself.)

...meanwhile Obito only had eyes for Kakashi didn't even deign to respond in the slightest.

(mf really left madara on read-)

To sum up, despite all the signs, Madara never seemed to quite register or accept Obito's "rejection" of his comradeship/mentorship/whatever-relationship-Madara-may-have-been-going-for; at least, not until Obito explicitly declared that he never saw Madara as an ally—which is when Madara's attitude began to shift* (though "the first crack" probably occurred when he learned they'd lost Nagato, since he had to have accepted then that there was no way forward except with Obito's demotion to sacrificial pawn).

* I say "(slowly) shift" because as soon as one issue after Obito not-comrade-zoned Madara, we got Madara looking at him like a proud soccer mom except, yknow, the kid in question was committing brutal mass murder instead of scoring a little goal or something.

Naruto - Chapter #614

"Well, well, my little rugrat sure has become quite the wily fox..."

Naruto - Chapter #615

"You've become almost exactly like the old me... Obito..."

the way madara's giving "you're doing amazing sweetie" kris jenner energy-

In grossly oversimplified conclusion:

[peekintoeternity]

So since Madara's answer—as to why he chose Obito—was an incomplete one at best; and said choice was conscious, crucial, characteristic...

part 3: why not shisui? (or literally anyone else?) —obito, while yanking at madara's hair and his own, probably

or:

WHO WOULD WIN?

Shisui: a genius, prodigy, generational talent eventually known as the strongest Uchiha even when "Wicked Eye" Fugaku was still alive (and Fugaku was considered as strong as Minato; both were the top candidates for Fourth Hokage), who either already had an MS or, at worst, a mature 3-tomoe sharingan

—vs—

Obito: one half-rekt boi

Welp, first, keep in mind that in selecting his apprentice, Madara must've been really, really picky: he hadn't settled on one in decades, until Obito.

This is also supposedly years after awakening the Rinnegan, so again, it's curious what Madara did with all those years before Obito.

Why willingly put the plan in limbo (me and my trash puns-) for so long? (obv plot armor for naruto-)

Madara "got" Obito when he was 13, and the databooks state the Ame orphans are 4 years older than Obito, so Nagato at this time was 17 and already had the Rinnegan for a while. In fact, he must've had it since before he was 7.

We know this because Jiraiya left the Ame orphans when they were 10, after training them for 3 years. When they met, Nagato already had the Rinnegan.

So Madara must've awakened the Rinnegan when Nagato was 7—if not earlier—and Obito was 3. This means Madara already knew he was close to death ten years before he finally "took" Obito "under his wing". And yet, instead of immediately choosing whoever, he "held out" for Obito.

Naruto - Chapter #560

"I awakened the Rinnegan just prior to my death."

And what could Madara's impossible standards possibly be?

The most logical "boxes" to tick:

Powerful.

Susceptible to manipulation.

Low-profile. (Won't be missed.)

1. Power or Potential

Well, this one's a no-brainer.

Shisui, despite being younger than Obito by about 5-7 years, was always renowned as a genius, elite even in a clan of elites, whereas Obito... was known as a washout.

Well, what about real-world battle experience? Obito was Minato's student, must've gone with him on some big missions; so maybe he had the edge on Shisui there?

Yeah, no. Since Konoha was so fucked up "desperate" that they deployed children during the Third War—with Kakashi becoming chūnin and going on missions at only 6—Shisui, another prodigy, should have had the same treatment and thus possess no less combat experience than Obito.

The best case you could make against Shisui is maybe... Madara knew of Kotoamatsukami, and dismissed Shisui because he didn't like that it isn't very combat-oriented (but more suited to politics and subterfuge).

This falls apart, though, when you realize that Koto would've still been really useful in gathering intel, collecting bijū, and just BZ-Mada's (new rap duo-) world domination plot in general. If anything, isn't it a plus?

Shisui's genius + Madara's training + Shisui's Susanoo should've more than made up for Koto's (arguably) non-offensive nature & (assumed) long cooldown time.

After all, when has Madara ever even used his MS ability? (In canon manga, none—unless you headcanon that it's Limbo.)

And if one were to say that Madara might not have known about Shisui's genius/MS...

Ao (who got his Byakugan in the Third War) stated that he's fought Shisui and knew Koto well, so it was clearly not kept strictly secret. Madara should've known too.

(In order to know what Obito was like—"isn't elder care your specialty?"—before choosing him, Madara, likely via White Zetsu spies, must've been monitoring the Uchiha compound, if not all of Konoha.)

So why would Madara be convinced that Obito could have a better MS, let alone that he could awaken it at all? (Not all sharingan users can.)

At worst, Obito's lineage is unclear. Shisui's ancestor, though, is known to be Kagami, who was remarkable enough to earn Tobirama's trust and respect.

Even if we accept Obito is descended from Madara—isn't it careless, even foolish of him, to hang all his hopes on a "washout" just because he is of his own blood?

What's more, with Obito's reputation in the clan and village, it's very unlikely his parents or close relatives were particularly talented, so the bloodline is clearly "diluted" to a notable extent.

In the end, the fact is: at any time, Shisui had to have had the more advanced sharingan.

The Narutoverse timeline is a mess—especially Shisui's story, which is riddled with holes in canon manga, and worse: the semi-canon material that attempts to "fill in the blanks" tells different stories between anime filler / novel / game—but either way, there are 2 possibilities:

(1) Shisui got his MS in the Third War or near its end, so probably before Kannabi Bridge (Obito's "death").

(2) Shisui got his MS just after the Third War, so after Madara had already "rescued" Obito.

Even if we go with possibility #2, by that point near the end of the Third War, Shisui's dōjutsu should be more evolved and better-honed, as Obito only unlocked his sharingan for the first time at Kannabi Bridge.

It's important to note that unlike the Hyūga and their Byakugan, Uchiha are not born presenting their Sharingan. It has to be awakened, and even among Uchiha, the sharingan is very rare. And because it's not apparent from birth... For most Uchiha, including Obito, there is no guarantee that one even carries (the potential to unlock) the clan's dōjutsu or bloodline trait.

(Just like how Kimimaro was the only one in the Kaguya Clan with the bone-manipulating kekkei genkai.)

In short, there was a very real possibility that Obito could never even awaken the sharingan at all.

Naruto - Chapter #12

(This is why I theorize Madara only "took" Obito after Kannabi Bridge instead of earlier, even if he'd already had his mind set on the boy: he was waiting for Obito to show that he could at least awaken the sharingan.)

All this should be overwhelming evidence that Madara's choice—overlooking Shisui, who must've already proven himself a capable sharingan user while Obito was still fixing his goggles—is suspect at best, so here's the final point against Obito in this category:

Shisui still had his right side. (sorry, rip wholebito.) And, of course, both his eyes. (Goddamn it Danzo-)

p.s. a good idea for a counter from @frost-felon is that Madara wanted someone who'd survive receiving implants of Hashirama cells.

except... Madara never even tried to kidnap Shisui to test Hashi-cells on him. most importantly, why would this be crucial to Madara's plans? sure, mokuton makes it easier to control and collect bijū, but in the end, Obito used the Akatsuki and so managed without mokuton.

Naruto - Chapter #606

based on Madara's statement, the only reason Obito should need HashiCells is to control the statue.

but why would the apprentice (Obito / Shisui) need to do that himself, if they already had Nagato? who, once gone, would have revived Madara, who could use the Rinnegan? again, there's no real need for the apprentice to be able to survive HashiCell (new smartphone brand-) implants.

All in all, it should've been immediately obvious which boy would be easier to train, and which had more potential to be stronger, more cunning, and more "efficient" than the other.

2. Susceptibility to Manipulation

A good point against Shisui from @al-hekima is the Will of Fire & how Konoha successfully brainwashed "educated" him: he bought into the "village > villagers" dogma so hard, he was happy to brainwash his entire clan "for peace."

(...when he could've at least brainwashed both sides? equal opportunity human rights violati-)

But that was Shisui at 16-ish. If Madara had "taken" him at the tender age of 6-8... couldn't Madara have twisted his loyalty & dedication-to-the-cause to his benefit? Imagine all the crimes against humanity things Shisui would've been happy to do for Madara if, instead of Konoha, he lived for the Infinite Tsukuyomi.

And let's not forget who else fell for Konoha's propaganda... (Hello again, Uchiha "I'm gonna become Hokage and stop the war!" Obito!)

Despite Konoha being the one Nagato accused of starting the war-

Despite the fact that Konoha didn't do whatever it took—surrender territories? agree to Iwa's terms?*—to end the war, when it was so at a disadvantage it had to send children to war-

* The end of the Third War finally came only when the positions of Iwa & Konoha were reversed and the Tsuchikage signed the peace treaty, conceding to Konoha's terms.

Sure, Konoha secured peace when it could've damaged Iwa further; but why hadn't Konoha done what Iwa finally did and conceded earlier, when it was in Iwa's cornered position?

Clearly, they (Konoha, the Fire Daimyō, the Hokage) prioritized capital / territories over the lives of their people and the children they sent into battle.

Despite likely seeing with his own eyes the many horrors of war and the shinobi system—which includes his village—as the latter capitalizes on the former, even relying on it for subsistence-

So taken was Obito with his nation/village's propaganda that, despite all this, Obito still believed wholeheartedly that being Hokage meant he could solve everything. That being Hokage meant protecting everyone and ending wars.

(...instead of serving the state's interests and treating people, especially other shinobi, more like tools/pawns and not like humans.)

Although Kid Obito was never shown to be happy to commit human rights violations for the sake of the village like Teen Shisui, there's no doubt he is no less brainwashed by Konoha than Kid Shisui must've been.

3. Profile or Notability in Konoha

Now, the biggest reason Madara might've struggled with finding an Uchiha apprentice for all those decades is... in that old cave, Grampadara & his trusty plant sidekicks are weak and vulnerable.

Madara only awakened the Rinnegan around 10 years before he "rescued" Obito, and the White Zetsu come from the Gedō Statue, which could only be summoned using the Rinnegan. So before he was close to death; before the Rinnegan... Madara didn't even have a single White Zetsu.

It was just him and Black Zetsu, alone in the dark pit of the earth, for decades. (No wonder he lost his damn mind-)

In all that time, with his injuries from the final fight with Hashirama, as well as the possible strain from Hashi cells (think Danzō and the seal on his arm), he might've not yet felt "ready" to find and train a potential apprentice.

By the time he had the Rinnegan, the Statue, White Zetsu—he was already "close to death"; couldn't so much as leave.

If Madara were to finally kidnap a potential apprentice in his final decade, he'd likely assign the task to White Zetsu, as he himself could not separate from the Statue and live. (Not to mention he'd be in no fighting shape.)

Could this explain why he overlooked Shisui, who would've been too powerful for White Zetsu to just kidnap?

Not really. Madara was a smart man—a warlord, clan head, leader... an able strategist. We see this in his orchestration of Rin's death:

Naruto - Chapter #675

So on top of Zetsu, Madara had other available pawns, such as the Kiri shinobi he managed to control to do his bidding—even as an aged, dying man chained to a statue.

He may not be able to completely control an entire platoon and make them his personal guards (since we saw no sign of this), but he could set certain events into motion and profit from their consequences or collateral damages.

For Madara, kidnapping even a powerful child like Shisui should be feasible.

Another issue, then, is that Madara likely couldn't afford having people sniff around his hideout, or even getting too close—and so the child had to be one... no one would miss.

Surely, Uchiha "Black Sheep" Obito would win here against Shisui?

Again... not really.

Canon gave little on Shisui's background; he could easily be another orphan. Outside canon, from anime filler / novels, Shisui is stated to have a family of three—but he's no "son of the clan head." Despite his talent, were he to disappear during a mission (say, a run-in with elite Kiri-nin), Shisui would likely simply be mourned as a hero, a light snuffed out too soon; but just another casualty of war. No more fuss than Obito's death got.

Of course, were he actually high-profile, it would be a different story. Imagine if Obito had been Itachi or Asuma: son of an important Konoha figure. War or not, there would've been a search party to retrieve their bodies.

For Obito, sure, he's no more "notable" in the village than Shisui. Obito had no family, no love from his clan, no one who truly cared about him (his grandmother is pure filler) except maybe Rin.

But by 13, Obito was no longer low-profile.

His sensei was not just the most dangerous man at the time (with a "flee on sight" order); he was the shoe-in for Fourth Hokage—which alone must make Obito more high-profile than most Uchiha kids; even ones with parents. It should've been a red flag for Madara.

The non-canon game scenes exacerbate this.

(And apparently Kishi worked on the scripts for the game's OVAs, so they can be considered... semi-canon?)

Obito was apparently Kushina's "favorite", who was arguably another important figure in Konoha. She was one of the last Uzumaki. She also had the ear of Mito, the Uzumaki Clan Head's daughter and the First Hokage's wife (before her death). And of course, she is the "precious" involuntary walking-suicide-bomb jinchūriki.

Moreover, despite Kakashi being in the team, Minato (and likely Kushina as well) wanted Obito to be the next Hokage after himself.

Naruto - Chapter #637

Minato was not a man to waste words or take his dreams & goals lightly. It may not have been explicitly shown, but just as Tobirama groomed Hiruzen to be his successor and Hiruzen did Minato (ahem, Konoha nepotism-), based on Minato's words, it's very likely Minato would've groomed Obito to be Hokage after him, if he hadn't already been doing so all along.

So instead of Shisui, who at most had two relatives and some standing in a clan that's historically, continuously, systemically marginalized by the village...

Madara went after the intended future Hokage, stealing him right from under the nose of the next Hokage aka Supreme (Military) Leader of one of the five superpowers of their world.

"Getting" Obito must've actually been more troublesome than Shisui or any other Uchiha, since Madara had to plan everything around Minato. ("I targeted a time when Minato was off on some other mission...")

This is most likely one reason that Madara only "took" Obito after he was presumed dead. Anything less might've had the Yellow Flash and a Konoha search party snooping around and disrupting his plans.

In short, Madara risked it all to "procure" the boy who loved deeply.

...the boy who didn't even have the right side of his body, nor his right eye—as a dōjutsu user.

So, the only answer for "why not Shisui?" must be something beyond checking the boxes for "ideal kidnap material"; something that only Obito had.

And so we return to Madara's answer: Obito had kindness, devotion, and... Obito loved. Deeply.

But, to recite part 1 of this unforgivably long post, the reason this appealed to Madara couldn't be something so inane and one-dimensional-villain-esque like "you love strongly so you'll hate strongly, emo pokévolution go brr!1!"

(or at least, that's the least interesting interpretation; one you'd gain from minimal engagement with the material.)

That part of Madara's answer was the lie; deception even on himself. But somewhere in the web of his lies, there was truth.

So, to recite part 2, something in Madara undeniably drove him to seek out the kind boy instead of the gifted boy: a vulnerability that he can never kill off, nor compensate for by guarding his back—which could only have the opposite effect.

After all, even the "Grim Reaper of the Uchiha" was a man, and in the end, wanted someone to stand by his side.

But to go even further... (into unhinged hc territory) what Madara wanted might've been even more than companionship; something no one should have the right to ask of a child, but which Madara could not attain from anyone else: salvation.

part 4: a cry for help

(sorry this part is mostly sad madara thoughts)

So why did Madara stay in that cave doing nothing for decades?

Even if he didn't have White Zetsu until the final decade; even if he couldn't use the puppet-making cursed seals before the Rinnegan; even if he was rendered weak from his Hashirama-inflicted injuries; even if he was struggling to contain the Hashi-cells in his body without a good seal or help from experts like Danzō had...

Why didn't he use his strategic skills and Black Zetsu, who had apparently been approaching & manipulating Indra & Asura reincarnates—always the most powerful & high-status in their generation—for eons?

Why didn't he kidnap a child and train them as his apprentice in the many years before Obito?

Well... we already know that Madara is a man filled with regrets, whose true dream is not even to destroy his enemies—again, he never sought revenge against even Tobirama—but to create a perfect world devoid of war, hatred, and losers.

It's interesting to note, too, that he always mentioned this idea of "winners and losers", instead of focusing only on love and hate or, say, oppressors and the oppressed. What could've been going through his mind, when he thought of the word "loser"?

Was that how he saw himself, despite all the victories he'd earned for his clan, and the fact that he and Hashirama—the result of their two final battles aside—had always been renowned as equals for decades?

Was he also thinking of others, those weaker than him, no matter what their clan was—perhaps even those he "belittled", like Ōnoki and Mū—and how he wanted to protect and uplift even them? To make sure no one else would have to suffer in a world where the only currency was power; a world that cursed you to thusly seek power even if it came at the cost of those closest to you?

When it came down to it, the Infinite Tsukuyomi was nothing but the means to an end. The "end" or true goal of Madara's later life... was peace. Perfect and eternal. (Impossible.)

So perhaps, in all those decades he was alone with Black Zetsu in some godforsaken cave... perhaps, even Uchiha Madara had doubts.

About kidnapping a child and manipulating them, setting them down a path where there could only be sorrow and solitude.

About taking them from the life they could've known and their loved ones—as if he were no better than those who took Izuna and his other brothers from him.

About doing what he dreamed to vanquish—perpetuating hate and violence and pain—even though his own will kept telling him... it would all be worth it, for the perfect world they'd create.

Perhaps... all those decades, and even the years since awakening the Rinnegan... were time Black Zetsu needed to keep Madara isolated, and chained to the plan.

To keep him away from anyone who might change his mind, though since Izuna's death and Hashirama's sword in his back, no such person existed.

To keep whispering and whispering in his ear... convincing him, because of course it is his own will, that ending the shinobi world as they knew it, no matter who became collateral damage... was the only way.

After all, who would be more vulnerable than a man haunted by regrets and enchanted by a pure dream of peace that excluded no one; who had lost everything and yet, for some reason—surely, thanks to his own will!—could not die?

Perhaps, there were even days in his old age when, as Black Zetsu crept around him and thought of nothing but "when will we get the Rinnegan already?"—Madara sent himself to sleep and a proto dreamworld, and silently prayed never to wake, except in the land where only dead men walked, because he didn't wish to see anything anymore except Izuna, his parents, and all his lost brothers. Just someone, anyone, who instead of fearful looks or hateful frowns, would greet him with an honest smile.

Perhaps, there were days when all he could think of was how he only ever saw Hashirama as a friend, a worthy rival, a respected equal; and yet... despite the weight of Madara's admiration—even fondness—for the man, why did Hashirama seem to ever do nothing but let him down?

Perhaps he asked himself, why did Hashirama never do anything but meaninglessly "scold" Tobirama for all his hateful words against Madara's clan, as if they were children at a playground, and not greatly influential state leaders? (and in Tobirama's case, a ninja scientist.)

As if Tobirama's words (lies sold as truth, perhaps the most dangerous sort of words) would only lead to an outburst from one Uchiha or two, and not seed an entire culture of viewing men, women, and children—born with nothing in common but the Uchiha bloodline—as devils with evil eyes and dangerous, unalterable hatred?

As if Hashirama never even considered—or cared?—that such sentiment could influence someone, such as... hypothetically... a student of Tobirama whose name rhymed with Hanzō... to call for something as atrocious as genocide on Madara's clan?

Perhaps, under the weight of all that, Madara finally caved and bought into the dream borne of "his own will."

(A "dream" involving the corruption of all he actually wanted in the first place; making it a good foil to the Will of Fire.)

After all, had Hashirama not bought into the vessel of his own dream—the means and not the end—to the detriment of the dream itself, i.e. peace and the protection of those he loved...

Had Hashirama not fallen for the hypocrisy paradox of the Will of Fire, that is, having the "courage" to kill even your own child "for the sake of the village"—despite the village being created (by Hashirama himself, no less) in order to protect loved ones; a place for your child, and all children, to have a better life, free from war and constant violence...

Had Hashirama not forsaken and killed Madara, but instead captured him and made every attempt to heal his figurative wounds, many of which Hashirama himself carved onto him...

Would Black Zetsu have succeeded?

(The greatest irony of all, of course, is that even Madara warned Hashirama in that very moment.)

Naruto - Chapter #626

(It's truly hilarious that Madara, one of the main villains of the entire series, became the author's mouthpiece here.)

It's also worth remembering that Black Zetsu had tried and failed for eons. Meaning whatever the case, Indra & Asura reincarnates before Madara had either never made it as far as to... bite a chunk of their counterpart's flesh (not really an S-Rank Mission, is it? doesn't even require a fight, really); or never succumbed to Black Zetsu's manipulations.

But for once, with Madara, Black Zetsu struck gold: it found not only an exceedingly powerful man unmatched for generations, but also one who had lost everything, and been left behind by everyone he cared for. Someone so tortured inside that the only way out he could see—the only way to cope—was a world of dreams.

And so Madara fell.

But deep down, there must've been something, a tiny voice, that kept him tethered just south of nowhere. That noticed something was wrong. That kept him from making any meaningful strides toward the completion of his plan for decades.

(That pointed him to the flawed but loving boy instead of the perfect boy, or any other child.)

After all, instead of kidnapping Obito and faking his dead at any other opportunity, Madara only "took" him when... he had been crushed half to death by a rock, and would've died without Madara's interference.

(Almost like he only ever even "took" Obito because the alternative was... allowing a boy to die. A boy whose kindness and devotion made a mark on him.)

So, because other interpretations are boring while this one adds (much needed) dimensions to Madara's as well as Obito's characters & arcs, because it's clear now that Madara isn't as single-mindedly determined to bring forth the dream world as his affectations would have you believe...

What if that something is the last thing we'd expect from Madara the Villain, but the first thing we should've guessed when seeing Madara as not just Warlord/Uchiha-Grim-Reaper/Big-Bad-Mad-Man, but human—Exploited-Child-Soldier/Grieving-Brother/Traumatized-Veteran—and brought to all the wrong choices by circumstances that could very well break anyone?

What if Madara just wanted to be saved from the path of ruin, to hell that it is his own doing?

And when he saw a boy who wanted to "stop the war" and had a bright, sunny disposition—just like Hashirama, his childhood friend-

Who cared deeply for his comrades—just like Izuna, his beloved brother, who would rather face uphill battles than risk his clansmen's future in an untrustworthy alliance, when even Madara had almost forsaken everything in favor of his desire to reconcile with his childhood friend; Izuna, who even shared the boy's birthday-

When Madara saw this boy who brought back to life the spirit of the two people he loved most, and who made him who he was...

(Remember, instead of Izuna, Madara's "last words" before being "consumed" by Kaguya was directed to Hashirama.)

Perhaps he thought, finally, as he saw at last a boy who could grow and be worthy of his name, someone he could see—and would want—by his side.

Nevermind that in the end, all he accomplished after the decades that he should've been focusing on his plan, was chase after ghosts.

And more than that, maybe he was silently praying, as he made his choice that doomed the boy forever, that this was someone who—as Izuna couldn't, and as Hashirama wouldn't, and as his victim shouldn't—despite it all, might just save him.

[loid7man]

This is a beautiful analysis

[donotpercieveme123]

Just need to remind everyone of this😌 Look at that cake, he could feed a whole village! Double cheeked up! Can't win a war if you're not packing cake the size of Fire country! 🤣The way he's standing, the hair swish, the BACK ARCH🤣🤣😘 Perfect! Hands down my favourite shot of him lmao. He looks like such a diva🤣 He's like a spiteful divorcee who knows they're hot. Respect.

[loid7man]

Hashirama could have had this but nah he chose to kill him

[lunelantern]

“THE UNIVERSE IS A DREAM DREAMED BY A SINGLE DREAMER WHERE ALL THE DREAM CHARACTERS DREAM TOO.”

Arthur Schopenhauer

This quote by the famous philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer instantly propelled me into the fictional universe of Naruto, in which the pinnacle of its construction tackles one of the most captivating modern theories about the existence of the Universe: the Universe imagined as a simulation.

I couldn’t help but delineate evident parallels between Schopenhauer’s philosophical retoric and the Infinite Tsukuyomi —a realistic dream trapping the entire world into a perpetual dream state, to each with its alternate realities.

Keep reading

[loid7man]

Thank you for being a genius

[jeauxker]

The disease that killed Itachi Uchiha

Back in August, I started seriously asking myself the question - what disease does Itachi have? When the internet couldn’t give me anything better than ‘advance-the-plot-itis,’ I decided to take matters into my own hands.  After months of intense research, I think it’s finally time to give Itachi Uchiha a REAL diagnosis… microscopic polyangiitis. In short, MPA is a rare form of systemic vasculitis. It is an auto-immune disorder, characterized by antineutrophil cytoplasmic antibodies attacking the small vessels, causing them to bleed as they become damaged and inflamed. It can have far-reaching consequences throughout different organ systems that, when compared to Itachi’s mysterious sickness, is nothing short of startling. The most visible symptom of Itachi’s illness is hemoptysis. 

  The hemoptysis is, more likely than not, a result of diffuse alveolar hemorrhage. This is a classic symptom of MPA when it presents with pulmonary manifestations. There is also shortness of breath, and coughing.

Unlike many other forms of vasculitis, such as wegener granulomatosis for example, the upper respiratory tract is usually spared. All the damage is deeper in the lungs. Itachi’s case is consistent with this. Other symptoms along the same vein can be seen during his final battle with Sasuke when Itachi grabs his shirt, reacting to what appears to be a heart attack.

Chest pain, myocardial infarction and other signs of cardiac failure are not uncommon effects of this disease, especially considering how it presented.  It is also no secret that by the time of his death, Itachi was nearly blind. This, we know, to be a direct result of the mangyeko sharingan. When the mangyeko is used, it clearly puts a tremendous amount of strain on the eye, and the nerves and blood vessels that surround it. Needless to say, it’s inflammatory in and of itself. But it is hasty to assume that Itachi’s eye problems are caused by the mangyeko alone.  Ocular involvement in MPA is uncommon, but can exist - usually in the form of retinal hemorrhage and scleritis. The bloodshot eyes Itachi sports in his final battle with Sasuke show these symptoms clearly. 

And given this, it’s no stretch to assume that MPA played a large role in accelerating the damage the mangyeko did to his eyes, hastening his vision loss.  Those are the only clues to Itachi’s symptoms given outright in canon. But we can extrapolate others from the way he conducts himself. 

  His low stamina as reported by the databook suggest constitutional symptoms of malaise and fatigue. The peculiar way he rests one hand in his cloak could be an attempt to alleviate painful sensations attributed to peripheral nervous system involvement manifesting as mononeuritis multiplex or myalgia, or simply to support a weakened limb. One could probably even argue his thin stature is evidence of weight loss. There are, of course, come classic manifestations of MPA that cannot be observed in Itachi. This, however, dos not mean that they can’t be rectified. One of the most common ways MPA manifests itself is with renal involvement. We have no evidence that Itachi’s kidneys have been damaged by disease. However, it is possible the damage is there, and simply did not produce outward, observable symptoms. At least half the cases of MPA also report skin involvement. This can range from small blisters to necrosis and gangrene. There are reports, however, of MPA only causing splinter hemorrhages, or small areas of bleeding under the nails. As the Akatsuki always wear nail polish, this would be completely unobservable. Long story short, the symptoms fit. In fact, they’re pretty much textbook. Next, we consider what we know about how the disease was managed. Madara describes Itachi’s disease to Sasuke in one panel. 

There, he reveals that Itachi took a variety of different medicines to keep himself alive. He could easily be describing the treatment of MPA, which requires a combination of different steroids and immunosuppressive agents. Because treating the disease requires suppressing his immune system, Itachi likely needed other drugs as well, including specific types of antibiotics and vitamins. Considering the high mortality rate of untreated microscopic polyanglitis, (a five-year survival rate of under 25%) this really did have the purpose of prolonging his life. Madara did not lie.  Lastly, we consider the prognosis.  The average age of onset is usually in the fifth decade of life, but cases around Itachi’s age have been reported in medical literature. The cause of the disease is currently unknown. It is seen as an auto-immune disorder, but because it doesn’t have a tendency to run in families, it’s not viewed as genetic. (Sasuke, after all, is still healthy.) However, it is theorized that there needs to be a trigger event, such as a disease or a major bout of inflammation that sets the production of antibodies into overdrive. This trigger could easily be the initial, or repeated, activation of the mangyeko sharingan, which as stated before, is clearly inflammatory in and of itself. The natural course of the disease fits cleanly into the time line of canon events as well. It is conceivable that, in the period of time following the chunin exam arc, he fell victim to the disease in full force. His whereabouts are unknown during the time-skip, where he likely managed to control it through medication, go into remission and then relapse again. That relapse would be the deciding factor in seeking out his final battle with Sasuke. The time between induced remission and relapse is usually around 2 years if it occurs, again fitting nicely with the chronology of the canon universe. And his death at Sasuke’s feet is thus, easily explained. 

source

[jeauxker]

Yo solarselection, I found something neat.

[insanescriptist]

@hiruma-musouka and @blackkatmagic 

Auto-immune disease makes so much more sense than cancer or tuberculosis.

[loid7man]

Nice Observation